/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Implication is that its' 8th Generation, but that game doesn't mesh to any TT material in anyway like that, so...

Yes. But not compared to vampires.

Two combat specialised characters of equal XP, the vampire will have an advantage except at the EXTREME start. Vampires pull ahead quickly, and stay ahead for the rest of the game.

Werewolves compensate by being packs.

>Vampires are as resilient as cockroaches, and social monsters. In a straight up fight, that don't have all the raw power, but they're no weakling.

They out-power werewolves.
They can get just as much strength, they can apply their +damage ability through weapons, frenzy grants a lot more offensive benefits than shape-shifting does, and they can blood buff.

Their pure, mundane, power peaks highest of anything we've seen this far in CofD. Mages only win because they have more hax and flexibility.

not strong enough to beat a mage

Accomplishments vary.

>Werewolves compensate by being packs.

You are retarded

>They out-power werewolves

Methuselahs maybe

>Their pure, mundane, power peaks highest of anything we've seen this far in CofD. Mages only win because they have more hax and flexibility.

If you honestly believe vampires are comparable to High Tier splats, you are beyond hope.

>vampires
>outright stronger than werewolves
I don't believe it.

Are you perhaps the same guy on the OPP forums that kept masturbating/exaggerating over the Celerity Discipline? Get the fuck out.

Now make a Tier list based on sex appeal.

I see I need to actually finish my comparison chart.

But compare Vigor to Strength and Rage gifts. Vigor is the better combat ability in all ways.

Celerity is decent. It boosts Defence, which is something werewolves lack completely. Unless, of course, you can dig up a straight "add Cunning to Defence"-power.

How do I fuck a cute vampire without her eating me?

Fucking stronk

Stake her, rip out her teeth for bragging rights then leave her out for the sun rise.

Read the above lists, user. Your precious little princes of the night are only Street Tier. Vampires will always be inferior little turds among gods and mages.

Unchained > all

>Stake her
With your penis

Vampires are shit

SHIIIIIIIIIIIIT

>Read the above lists, user. Your precious little princes of the night are only Street Tier. Vampires will always be inferior little turds among gods and mages.

Agreed. Vampires ain't got shit on the powerful creatures. But in a straight fight, Vampires are powerful... But they can't do anything else.

But my real argument is that Werewolves are weak.
Stronger than 1e. But so are mortals.

Eat her first.

Be a 16 year old Beast named Ben.

>But in a straight fight, Vampires are powerful
No they are not. It's hilarious you think so. The only thing scary about them is Dominate and Celerity. And those can be duplicated and done better by mages. Vampires are among the weakest in white-room fights.

>Werewolves are weak
You just lost all credibility. You lost this. Get the fuck out now.

What is he?

Velvet velour is my crush

>You just lost all credibility. You lost this. Get the fuck out now.

No. How much +damage can a Werewolf get? Including equipment?

>How much +damage can a Werewolf get?

You have lost another 50 credibility points.

A nephandi

Answer me.

How much +Damage, +Defence, and +Strength can werewolves get?

I'm just going to take another 50 points off your credibility

>Changelings are weak
Aw man... :(

>not even differentiating between antediluvians and neonates

>duplicated and done better by mages
One of the reasons why I don't allow mages in crossovers

go back to /v/ kid, this is a chronicles of darkness thread...

Antediluvians? I think you mean high grade lawn chairs.

>Being so dumb you don't realize the list is obviously CofD not OWoD

Their strength is above average. The rate of growth however is extraordinary.

CofD sounds like utter shit.

>Cummies of Daddy

Is there a difference? Mages reign supreme in both. Clearly they are just two sides of the same coin.

And you sound like a cancerous /v/ermin, now leave and go back to your shit hole. Vampires are not made for combat werewolves are plain and simple

Spotted the /v/ retard, bet you came because the WtA announcement

WoD and CoFD are both hit and miss, ideally you would just use the translation guides to mix elements and port them over to the CofD ruleset (WoD mechanics are like 20 years old and still fucking aids)

for example I vastly prefer Masquerade but it could do with lowering the focus on sucking elder cock and have more playable factions, and I like Apocalypse but some of the stuff from Forsaken is actually really interesting and I think they could be mixed together to great effect

I've actually never been to /v/. And I don't give a shit about Werewolf.

What ever helps you sleep at night

>I don't give a shit about Werewolf

>Every Masquerade player

I know they arn't really meant to be played but where would a incarnate beast sit in all this?

Sin Eaters are too low. They literally have a power that allows them to force others to commit suicide.

That isn't very impressive when other splats can do the same. Putting Sin-Eaters that high is being too generous in the first place.

What's better in CofD rules? WoD rules seem fine to me. And if you're not sucking elder cock, what are you doing? Deciding your own destiny from the very beginning? If I wanted that I'd play something else.

I know that the point of playing Promethean is becoming human, but when you do become human do you retain any of your old powers? If not, after becoming human can you become a different supernatural creature like maybe a mage?

How does that change anything?

Than play something faggot nobody is forcing you to play shit.

Name another splat that can do that as easy as a sin eater? What's the use of a demon going loud when a sin eater can literally tell it to kill itself?

All splats except werewolves can do that. Werewolves just kill you instead.

I like how 1's don't take away from your successes. Other than that I can't really say, I've only played owod once so I don't know the mechanical differences.

I'm not an expert on this but I've heard that a lot of people don't like the botch mechanic in WoD, and CofD has a much more streamlined combat system or something compared to WoD's clusterfuck of rolling 4-5 dice pools for a single attack.

>if you're not sucking elder cock, what are you doing?

Personal horror, which is what being a vampire should be about instead of fetch quests for the prince? You can still do politics, but it isn't centered around being railroaded by ST's Ventrue train operator.

>werewolves are weak little shits
Good to have confirmation thanks user

>Beast They actually start out really strong but get overshadowed as the other splats get their higher powers. still pretty good
I disagree. Many Atavisms scale with Lair so I wouldn't say they become any weaker. They have good armor, reliable source of aggravated damage, lair traits can be very powerful too. Only weaker area is Defense, both boosting it and using against bullet-fast attacks.

Compare to werewolves who scale really poorly, young werewolf is literal killing machine, but they don't become much better. In case of beast vs werewolf, both built for fight, I would bet on beast.

High exp Vampire with Coil of the Wyrm scales really well with Blood Potency. Vampires have source of aggravated damage with Claws of the Unholy or Feeding the Crone, werewolves have just fire against vamps, which can be not only resisted with Resilence, but nearly ignored with Coil of the Ascendant.
Primal Urge helps high exp werewolf considerably less. Still, against well built Rahu it would be no slam dunk. To get on that level vampire needs shitloads of exp, while werewolf needs much fewer to get into optimal battle build.
Of course we are talking white room, werewolves would normally take advantage of the Shadow and ability to act during day.

Also prepared Hunter is no better than prepared anyone else.

>Vampires pull ahead very slowly
ftfy
>Werewolves compensate by using Shadow and not spending half the time in coffin
ftfy again

>Celerity is decent. It boosts Defence, which is something werewolves lack completely.
Werewolves lower opponent's Defense, so this only compensates for that.

>But my real argument is that Werewolves are weak.
Agreed, in 2e they got relatively low boost.

some +Damage and +Strength scale directly with appropriate Renown, while other like from Crimson Spasm are more random. They dont get more Defense, but see above.

A Mind mage can do it better than a Sin-Eater. Applying the Fate Arcanum only makes it even worse via Conditional Triggers.

Dominate Vampire
Mind Mage

Are you even trying?

You do know that Werewolf bites and claws do aggravated damage against Vampires?

Yes, once you get your fancy human soul you could awaken to the heights of mage supremacy or get kidnapped by a true fae and have the damn thing ripped out of you.

I laugh at all the people over-exaggerating Vampires and attempting to downplay Werewolves.

And yet they still have half a dozen more splats to downplay before they reach the superior species known as Mages which sit at the very top.

>Werewolves compensate by using Shadow and not spending half the time in coffin

Agreed. Werewolves win a LOT in trickiness, but they can't really do any attacks from the Shadow, so it doesn't help them in combat.

>Agreed, in 2e they got relatively low boost.
No. They got a huge one. 1e Werewolves were practically on par with Hunters.
It just didn't go far enough.

>Werewolves lower opponent's Defense, so this only compensates for that.
Which means that a Vampire facing a Gauru will still have higher defence than any Werewolf would.
Werewolf attacks werewolf: Tops at 5 Defence
Werewolf attacks vampire: Tops at 10 Defence
Before power stat 6+ shenanigans, of course.

>some +Damage and +Strength scale directly with appropriate Renown, while other like from Crimson Spasm are more random. They dont get more Defense, but see above.
Yes, but the +damage from Rage gifts only works in Gauru, and only with Brawl weapons, whereas a Vampire can use it all the time, and do it with things like battle axes.

Also, as soon as the Vampire hits Blood Potency 3, they get more stat boosts from Frenzy than shape shifting gives werewolves, and vampires ALSO have the expensive-but-powerful boost in Physical Intensity.

Last but not least, any Vampire can become a strong fighter. A werewolf has to be a Rahu.

You guys are literally autistic. Not all vampires are ventru and not all mages are mind specialized.

No I don't. Find some source from RAW.
Protip. You can't.

No. Bites do Lethal, and claws do Bashing. Almost everything does Bashing to vampires. The fact that the weres do Lethal at all is impressive.

But all Sin-Eaters specialise in the Marionette? (Phantasm is it that mind controls?)

More streamlined combat sounds cool, but botches are sweet.

Botches are still in, as Dramatic Failures.

Which you now choose to get for sweet, sweet Beats. (XP)

All splats except mages need very specific builds in order to be able to inflict aggravated damage, and then usually only in melee brawls.

All mages, regardless of Path or specializations, can inflict aggravated damage at range, often without any applied Defense, armor or Withstand, once they reach 4 dots in any Arcanum.

In order to beat a mage in combat, you need to completely surprise them AND put them down immediately. If you don't, you will be killed or seriously injured, or they will escape and counterattack at their leisure, which is a guarantee of your slow and painful demise.

If a mage PC is actually designed and built for physical combat, you're fucked.

>If a mage PC is actually designed and built for physical combat, you're fucked.
How would you specc this? I'm guessing Matter and Life are probably the most important stats?

>beast
it's not that they become weaker it's that they get out classed. and other splats find better tricks, or just come into their own. Where beast just starts darn good but don't improve as well as the other splats

>Also prepared Hunter is no better than prepared anyone else
yeah thats the point in putting hunters at two scales. Knowing about a vamp's Haven or getting some silver bullets gives them the edge to actually do something

>Werewolves lower opponent's Defense, so this only compensates for that
wut?

EVERYONE SHUT UP ABOUT POWER LEVELS, IT'S HUNTER 2E TIME

theonyxpath.com/corebook-outline-kick-off-hunter-the-vigil/

Was Cherion-freelancer-user legit? We'll find out, I guess!

No one here is contesting Mage supremacy. Only an idiot would doubt their place as the most powerful splat in both WoD settings. Unlimited potential power is one of their key themes. You can't go against that.

On the subject of Werewolves vs Mages. Werewolves will win the majority of white-room duels. 2e is just witness to this.

>I was proven wrong everyone is autistic
sad.

What's the point of being a Hunter? They will never be as cool and poweful as Mages

I half expected her to cut and eat the plate.

Hunters are the exact opposite of Mages. They are flat-out the weakest splat.

Again, what's the point?

>Mage Supremacy

Being a plain vanilla human and trying to understand and fight creatures that are far superior than you is pretty tense.

>On the subject of Werewolves vs Mages. Werewolves will win the majority of white-room duels. 2e is just witness to this.

Yeah. The minority that the Mage will win is those cases of a Mage who have decided to do stuff like the Werewolves do, and since they do it better, they win.

four rolls for one attack verse one roll. not to mention CoD is written by folks with technical writing skills so rules are clarified

GET OUT MAGEFAGS

>Ghost centered Conspiracy

Huh. I suppose that was the one place where Hunter was lacking. I wonder who got the cut from the core Conspiracies. VASCU, this new one, that leaves five Conspiracies left. Anyone want to take a guess as to what those are?

>Power levels

Am I a faggot/autist/elitist/whatever for caring more about roleplaying an interesting character and exploring the setting?

Sympathetic casting seems like such an important part of the game, Shadow Names and Occultation both existing because of it. If you ever make a Mage without 2 dots in Space are you playing the game wrong?

youtube.com/watch?v=HFgeustBpFk

I think Cheiron got cut. They are too.. Villain-y.

I hope they got a nice fit in Deviant.

Nah. I do like that as well. I just enjoy the arguing.

yes, absolutely

know that everything you do as a vampire is completely irrelevant because you can never reach your true potential, like a mage

The Ordo Dracul would like to have a word with you.

That's not what I meant. By majority I mean Mages who aren't Masters. Or Mages that don't know how Werewolves work. A clever Mage (that isn't a Master) that knows what they're up against will curbstomp a Werewolf 1v1 in a white-room setting. A Master is going to just one shot a Werewolf no matter what. Unmaking spells are just that ridiculous if you abuse them with Praxis and Rotes.

Now that I realize this. I change my opinion. Adept-Master Mages are going to win the vast majority of white-room duels with Werewolves.

Oh. Yeah. Masters or close-combat specialists work. Masters will curbstomp werewolves.
You don't even have to abuse the system, just use it.