/swg/ - Lord of the cheekbones edition

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Other Fantasy Flight Games Star Wars Tabletop (Imperial Assault, Star Wars: Destiny and the Star Wars LCG)
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Older Star Wars Tabletop (d6, d20/Saga, etc.)
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Just What IS Canon Anyways?
>starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon#2014_reboot
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The Clone Wars Viewing Guide
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Writefaggotry
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Shipfag's hangar
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HoTAC
>dockingbay416.com/campaign

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier
fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/1/20/masters-of-the-hunt/
geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v4!s!168:-1,123,-1,-1:28:-1:u.144;125:-1,0,-1,-1:-1:-1:;213:188,-1:43:-1:;233:-1,-1,-1,-1:-1:30:&sn=Trolls and Villany
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

First?

So Tarkin was comically inept, right?

Not sure why you would think that. Then again I have not read the new book yet.

You can't deny his cheekbones though.

Oh absolutely, Stellar cheekbones.

But his track record is pretty abysmal.
>gets captured by separatist droids
>struggles to capture a teenage Jedi apprentice
>fails to capture or eliminate a crew of misfits on lothal
>looses his personal flagship to aforementioned crew of misfits
>local governor gets sick of his shit and calls for Thrawn
>blows up the Empires central military data archive
>rejects idea that the Deathstar should be escorted by a fleet of ships because the rebels are aware of a critical flaw in its design
>gets 1 million Imperial personnel killed

Guys a menace to his own side.

If you're gonna count stuff as "effectiveness against the lothal rebels" he's hardly less competent than the rest of the empire. The Death Star question could have been handled better though, I agree with that. Sure, he was missing key information about the stations weakness, but assaulting the rebel base without support was hybris.

Not to mention destroying Alderaan to spite a single individual, thus causing mass desertions/defections & public opinion to sway against the Empire

That sure is a way you could choose to read that scene.

Make way for the best shipfu

>victory class has yet to appear on screen

Disney pls

Many of the Rebellion's best and a lot of their command structure were Imperial deserters. Tycho Celchu, Biggs Darklighter, Derek Kilivan, Adar Tallon, Carlist Rieekan, Crix Madine, Jan Dodonna, and Arhul Narra, just to name a few. Not all of them quit because of Alderaan, but it certainly encouraged some of them, alongside the Empire's other atrocities.

Shit, that was meant for .

Sure, but it also served to terrify local governments into submission. Or at least, would have, if the Death Star would have stuck around.

Yep, that was the Tarkin Doctrine. But you could do the exact same thing with the DS1's weight in Star Destroyers, which already had enough firepower to glass planets on their own and can threaten more than one system at a time.

You seem to have uploaded wrong holo on accident, let me help you friend.

Venator 4 lyfe

>You seem to have uploaded wrong holo on accident

It's especially bad because Rebels is in the Outer Rim. And yet all we see besides the light cruisers and Gozantis are the Imperial Class SDs. I just want to see some Vic's that have been lovingly cared for by their crew over the year.

I assure you there was no mistake.

Assuming the rebels could actually find enough pilots and ships a rebel controlled Venator would be terrifying, dat hangar capacity.

How many people would be needed to crew it effectively?

He's as effective as any conventional forces commander against any competent insurgency.

The Wook lists a standard 7400 crewmen, plus pilots for all the starfighters. A skeleton force of 2k miiiiight be able to make it fly, but not very well.

Jesus

What the hell are all of those people even doing inside that ship?
Are droid floor sweepers just not an option? Or is there somewhere inside the ship some sorta giant treadmill or a push wheel that more than half the crew run in/push in order to generate power for the entire ship?

Yes?

Nvm

While droids are a good point, some quick wiki-ing found that Nimitz-class Suppercarriers, who are less than 1/3 the length of a Venator, have a listed crew of "Up to 5,000+", so I wouldn't say 7400 is an unreasonable number.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier

Bit unfair to say that he's a catalogue of fuck ups, but terrible leadership skills, utterly rubbish understanding of social behaviour and a bit of a prick really he does deserve.
What he is though, is someone Palps can rely on and is very loyal to him, then managed to not fuck up all the time to get the attention of his boss to the point Palps gives a damn.

That's not too bad as far as star destroyers go, given its 4 times the length of an aircraft carrier and many times its size

The exact point I was about to make - good job, user. There's also the fact that Venators were battleships alongside aircraft carriers, so they'd presumably need more crew for gunnery, support, repair, and other vial combat needs.

That figure probably includes:
>Bridge
>Engineering
>Flight deck crew
>Pilots
>Gunnery
>Muhreens
>Medical
A ship that big needs a lot of people. 7400 actually seems really, really small for something as large as a Venator.

What are these guys even doing on the ship? Damage control duty?

Reposting this for the new thread.

My campaign started with my players waking up on a pirate ship after being captured. They proceeded to break free and capture all the pirates, and take the ship for themselves. The captain was traded in for a bounty, but they have a brig full of pirates, so they want to fly to Hutt Space to sell them off as slaves.

Anything interesting I can do with this? I've been playing a lot with the idea that their ship, despite being really nice, is giving them a lot of mistaken identity issues thanks to how infamous the pirate they stole it from was, so I might have them get in some trouble when a Hutt that the former captain pissed off catches wind that their ship has docked.

Ok, how large are these marine forces aboard ships (both on Venators and Nimitz class aircraft carriers)?

They're on a giant ship in the middle of the ocean powered by nuclear reactors, carrying dozens of highly-complicated flying battle craft. There's a lot of stuff that needs doing. It's not a raft floating down the Mississippi.

Again, the Wook lists about 2k passengers onboard the Venator separate from the crew. It's hard to say how many marines you could stuff onboard a Nimitz, since troop deployment really isn't in their mission profile.

Sleeping, fapping, babysitting the reactors and bilge pumps, doing officer things, maintaining fucktons of aircraft. Super Hornets and F-35s don't repair themselves.

Oh yeah, having Security light up when the SS Mynock Rapist comes into port is a good idea. Hell, if they pull into a sketchy-enough spaceport, there's a good chance they'll get attacked before they even have a chance to land.

>Start EotE game expecting plucky rogues looking to make a quick buck
>They decide they want to start a criminal empire
Well fuck it this is cool too I guess

It's my experience that when you give PCs a ship and a free sky, they either 1) try to build some kind of enterprise, or 2) try to become the best at something. Generally either or both of those based on murder.

Yeah I don't know why I didn't expect it. It's going to make things interesting though, because we've got a force sensitive in the party and we're using morality rules. So far he's coasted along alright, but doing a few jobs is different to building an entire empire, which will presumably involve a lot of amoral bullshit.

But hey, he can either try to steer the other PCs in the right direction or embrace the fall.

Haven´t been here since october last year. Are there any new additions to the ffg rpg?

>fails to capture or eliminate a crew of misfits on lothal
>looses his personal flagship to aforementioned crew of misfits
He drove them off the planet and lured out an actual rebel fleet into the open.

Not exactly a full success, but not bad.

Can't bust Planetary Shields without an INCREDIBLE amount of them or torpedo spheres.

No Disintegrations is now shipping to stores.
fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/1/20/masters-of-the-hunt/

New preview lists a handful of guns, lists a few types of micro-rockets that'll be available, gives some hints on how Mandalorian armor will work, and previews the "Exploits" rewards system (modifiers when dealing with bounties).

Endless Vigil (FaD Sentinel) and Friends Like These (AoR adventure) came out. We've got camera-quality scan of the former.

I'm trying to make the most frustrating list to go up against in X-wing. This is my attempt so far:
geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v4!s!168:-1,123,-1,-1:28:-1:u.144;125:-1,0,-1,-1:-1:-1:;213:188,-1:43:-1:;233:-1,-1,-1,-1:-1:30:&sn=Trolls and Villany

How common are planetary shields, I wonder? AFAIK, we've only seen planet-spanning shields on three planets in the movies, and only a handful more in the EU. Mostly you see shields around specific bases or strongholds like Echo Base.

Thanks. Gonna be downloading both.

That looks actually less frustrating than just the common scum lists, I fucking hate going up against jumpmasters and lancers and fucking fenn rau.

In the Legends EU they were rather common post-Endor, and pre-endor they were common for the core, colonies, and Inner Rim's wealthier worlds but very hard to get further out.

Good luck with that. If you do happen to find a good quality scan, return here and provide details, so that they may be added to the PDF folders.

How does people usually make Rau frustrating? I often find that he dies very quickly due to his lack of evade action, but maybe I'm just a shitty pilot.

My experience against him has always just been frustration trying to keep him in arc and jack shit for damage shooting into 4 agility or 3 with autothrusters while getting pounded back by 5 attack.

In my experience stealth devices seldom last more than one attack. Do you run a lot of firepower-2 ships?

You're a shitty pilot, having boost+barrel roll, PS9, and a good dial he should be able to be positioned well.
Autothrusters and agi 3 should let him do well against most turrets (multiple TLT will take him down, but that's a thing that happens with arc dodger aces).
The guy he's going after should have to shoot into 4 dice and an auto evade, or you stay out of their arc.

If he's getting shot by multiple ships without turrets at range 1-2, you done goofed.

its 4 dice with a focus against a 3 dice attack, odds are that he takes no hits.
If you get into range one he's got 5 dice, with a free evade if he's facing you. so again odds are no hits.
Given that he typically runs with a token stripper, how are you reliably getting a hit through in one shot.

Multiple 3 dice range 2, or range 1 out of arc, shots will get a hit through, but then you're doing a shit job piloting.

Nope, I mostly run 3 red ships like T-70s and ARCs but he can just fly up into the grill of one of those and unload with 5 red and be mostly safe from retaliation with 4 green and a free evade token from the title. Since he's generally highest pilot skill he can almost always choose to stay out of the only place he's weak, range 2, by just moving for range 3 where he's also 4 green and an evade from autothrusters and boosting if he ends up too close or in too many arcs.

Rate my x-wing list:

>Gamma Squadron Veteran
Tie mk.ii engine
Tie shuttle
Fleet officer
Swarm Leader
>Maarek Steele
Juke
X/7
>Rexler Brath
Expertise
X/7

That wouldn't have meant shit if not for Luke Skywalker and his Jedi fuckery.

if it wasn't for Darth Vader and his Sith dickery the rest of Red Squadron could have gotten the shot in to kill the death star.
There was force dickery on both sides.

Okay? But that has nothing to do with Tarkin.

Had Skywalker not been able to destroy the DS1, the Rebellion would have been 100% finished. We see in Rogue One that the majority is ready to call it quits even before that, but a conclusive battle keeps them in the fray for another day.

Having such a major defeat, plus the destruction of Yavin IV, would have sealed the deal for the Rebellion... while Tarkin would be lauded as the Man who Ended the War.

The Tarkin Doctrine WORKS nine-hundred-and-ninety-nine times out of a thousand. After blowing up Alderaan and Yavin, the Death Star's reputation would be concrete. The mere rumor of it arriving in one's sector would cause people, who would otherwise be Rebel sympathizers themselves, to turn in their Rebel-leaning neighbors as terrorists and accept subjugation with a (forced) smile.

It's only in the very rare case of a Force user that something like the Death Star can be defeated, which ruins the Tarkin Doctrine. Don't judge Tarkin on that.

>It's only in the very rare case of a Force user that something like the Death Star can be defeated, which ruins the Tarkin Doctrine.
no, you're missing the point.
If there had been no force users on either side, then more of Red Squadron survices, gets more passes and takes out the Death Star still. So Tarkin still dies and fails.

His fault was thinking the Death Star was invincible and that the Rebels would be making that attack when they knew they had no chance. They made the attack, because they had the chance.

>then more of Red Squadron survices
Doubtful. It doesn't take much Force hax to play goalkeeper in a trench that doesn't allow room to maneuver.

wait, so you're arguing that Darth Vader isn't a badass.
That's what you're argument depends on, and you're willing to make that claim.

What are you even doing here?

That's a negative. The Rebels, sans-Luke, tried all they could to make that veeeeery difficult shot work, and failed.

Without the Force, you're not making a successful trench run.

Plus, this is not a situation where we're discussing removing the Force from the galaxy. Vader can be blasting Rebels to bits with the Force all day, that doesn't minimize Tarkin's brilliance.

No, it's just that nobody expected that a new Jedi to have just enough Force ability to aim his proton torpedo to do the otherwise-impossible.

Red Squadron set their deflector shields to double front, they'd' have been fine. Also, Wedge Antilles.

Literally only 2 ships made the shot, which was a bloody hard one to make. Luke used the force to get the right shot, not to redirect the torpedos, seeing as how he could barely move a saber handle in episode V.

You know that there were two other TIE fighters in the trench with Vader, right? It doesn't take a Sith to attack the Rebels in the trench.

You're making my point for me. Luke needed the Force, which wasn't accounted for in Tarkin's plan.

Otherwise the Tarkin Doctrine would have worked.

Those fighters wouldn't have been launched without Vader's direct order.

No, the argument is that ordering Black Squadron to deploy does not require the use of Force powers. Shooting Rebels in the back in a trench with no room for them to dodge also does not require Force powers. If someone other than Vader had decided to scramble TIEs, Red and Gold Squadrons would still have been fucked without Luke.

>double front
The trench runners were getting shot in the back.
>Wedge
His skills are irrelevant in the trench, where maneuvering options are severely limited.

only two ships are able to take the shot, in part because Darth Vader shows up and blows some of them away.
You can argue that the non-force user part of the Empire would have been able to take out the Rebels sans-Luke, but you have no more proof of that than I have that the non-force user part of the Rebels could make the trench run and make the shot.
It's a difficult shot, but not an impossible one.

Tarkin wouldn't have launched black squadron due to his belief in the Death Star's perceived invincibility.

Well Tarkin didn't make that order, so still a fuck up on his part.
And again, you saying that Black Squadron could have done the job just fine, involves claiming that Darth Vader isn't a badass. And you are strangely comfortable saying.

>involves claiming that Darth Vader isn't a badass
>jumping to conclusions this hard
No, I'm saying that Vader's role in that fight did not require Force powers. If Palpatine had duct-taped an ysalamiri to his helmet, or if he had zero Force sensitivity whatsoever, Vader could still have done the job because camping the trench and shooting Rebels in the back does not require Force sensitivity, just tactical acumen and enough knowledge to handle a TIE.

Looks fine to me. I see what you're getting at with trying to use Swarm Leader to up the bomber's potential, if the Defenders don't need their Evades. Not a bad idea.

You do realize that force powers are part of what makes Jedi and Sith such good fighters and pilots right?
I mean Obi-wan had to tell Luke to use the force to make the shot, but that's because he doesn't just use it automatically like say Darth Vader would have.
Darth Vader badasser comes from the force even when he's not actively force choking people.

Otherwise you are saying that any decent pilot could have done it, which means that Darth Vader showing up wasn't important, because what he did wasn't being a badass. So Darth Vader wasn't a badass. And you're okay with that.

Fenn Rau is basically an in-your-face Interceptor with no Evade, and a death wish. Stealth Device gives him an extra temporary green, but he doesn't have the Evade Tokens or Plapatine to keep it going like Soontir Fel. Autothrusters are probably the most solid mod option for him, as he's an arc-dodger first and foremost. The thing to remember about Rau is that he's like Talonbane in that they are both heavily focused for R1 chicken, can be tough to bring down at R3, and despise the R2 "dead-zone". The major difference between them is ordnance type (not an issue), knife-fighter vs interceptor dials, 1 shield vs 3 agility, and an illicit slot compared to a title. But other than green 2-speed maneuvers, possible cloaking/stim, and autothrusters+3 green, treat them vaguely similar. Rau can be brought down. He's no Soontir Fel with sheev guiding his green dice.

>good fighters and pilots right
Irrelevant in the case of the trench run. Protecting the exhaust port required no sophisticated maneuvering or superhuman precognitive abilities. Comparing Luke and Vader's role is also a false equivalence. Luke needed those precognitive Force skills to make the shot because the timing and ideal placement were very, very difficult to achieve. Luke's job at Yavin was harder than Vader's, because all Vader had to do was fly down the trench, shoot Xs and Ys, pull up, then circle back to the beginning and repeat.

Vader's pivotal decision in that fight was to order Black Squadron to deploy. He did not need to call upon any of his dogfighting skills or Force powers at that point in time, because the mission did not require them. Imagine if Bruce Lee had a gun and was confronted with an armed attacker. Does Bruce Lee lose his badass card for shooting the guy? No. It's the simplest, most effective solution for the situation. He doesn't need to pull off fancy martial arts because shooting a motherfucker is easier, faster, and safer.

That's the ticket alright. Between the 2 high ps defenders, the bomber is low priority usually. I normally have it last longer than a palp shuttle. Between expertise, target lock, and a focus for brath's ability, that should put down some nice damage.

I wanted general hux for an auto-crit through Brath, but he is 5 points and shuttle restricts to 4 and below.

I think you misunderstand what Star Wars is about on a fundamental level.

No, you just lack reading comprehension and an understanding of Vader's skills. Shooting Outer Rim yokels who are flying in a straight line is nothing compared to dogfighting with hyper-agile droid starfighters in a chaotic fleet battle over Coruscant. Vader could have done the entire trench defense in his sleep with an ysalamiri shoved up his ass.

I'd say hes much better than Talonbane, and while comparable to Soontir, some counters to Soontir don't work against him.
For a few reason.
Compared to Talonbane: Much more manueverable: the dial is much better, he's got a boost and barrel roll (compared to nothing). Much better defense: he gets an extra defense at R1, where Talonbane only get the offense, and in arc gets a free evade. (the illicit isn't as good, it just isn't)

Compared to Soontir:
Several counters to Soontir don't work against Fenn Rau. And while he doesn't have Plapatine, he does have Manaroo.
Manaroo means he doesn't have to rely as much on his own actions and tokens, so forcing a bump or crossing an asteroid isn't as crippling.
The automatic extra die, and free evade at range one means things that strip tokens, prevent tokens, don't get around everything he does.
Mindlink also lets him get crazy action economy without having stress himself, which means you doesn't have that turn where you can limit him to green manuevers, or use double stress to shut him down as hard.

>Outer Rim yokels

>The trench run shot is impossible without the force because I say so.
>Shooting down all the x-wings and y-wings is easy without he force, because I say so.
>That this means that Darth Vader was just doing what any competent TIE fighter pilot could do doesn't mean that there are literally no scenes of Darth Vader being a threat in fighter in the original trilogy.
>Which is fine because the Prequels clearly show how badass Darth Vader is.

Well at least he's shown to be a competent pilot in rebels

>because I say so
Because the trench has no fucking room to maneuver. All of Vader's targets flew in straight lines and were engaged at nearly point-blank range. All he had to do was point and click. No fancy maneuvers, no duels with elite aces, just shooting people in the back while they're helpless to retaliate or escape. Everyone who flies into the trench is a sitting duck, as Han and Chewie proved later on. Meanwhile, the thermal exhaust port is a few meters wide and requires the torpedo to curve within a very, very small correct window so that it flies straight down and doesn't hit the external armor, the rim, or the walls of the shaft.

>All of Vader's targets flew in straight lines and were engaged at nearly point-blank range. All he had to do was point and click.
and this is true because I say so.
>Everyone who flies into the trench is a sitting duck, as Han and Chewie proved later on.
no, Han and Chewie are also badasses, otherwise otherwise a non-name y-wing's turret would have done it.

You have the choice between Vader, Han, and Chewie were able to pull off something badass because they were badasses, or 'it wasn't actually hard, they just happened to be the ones who were there', and you are going with the second option.
WTF is wrong with you?

So for obligation do you legit just write down multiple obligations or can you just write down an obligation with a large number? (Maybe someone really wants you dead)

It could also be that your argument is bunk, and that you're both slap fighting over an irrelevant detail spun off a separate and equally bunk argument.

Darth Vader is a threat because he, unlike Tarkin, is smart enough to defend the Death Star's weak point and do so in a nearly foolproof manner. It doesn't matter whether he used the Force at Yavin or not because his tactical skills allowed him to predict how and where the Rebels would perform their attack runs, thus allowing him to respond with a counter-tactic that is both easy and effective.

Vader exploited that in a way that doesn't require him to break a sweat. He demonstrates his threat status at Yavin not through brute power or Force shenanigans, but by seeing right through the Rebels' bullshit and being the only smart person in the room. Han and Chewie then turned the tables by exploiting the very same vulnerability that Vader exploited, while also blindsiding him. Vader demonstrates his street cred not through visible use of the Force or fancy piloting, but through intelligent use of an easily defensible position. Han and Chewie then demonstrate theirs by being the spanner in the works.

>because I say so
No, because it's visibly obvious. Trench runners have to fly in close formation--fact, seen every time a formation begins a trench run. The trench is a straight line--also a fact, as seen just by looking at the Death Star. It's also obvious from comparing starfighter size and the trench that maneuvering is extremely hard, especially since AA fire is visible above the trench. What happens when one of Vader's wingmen panics? He crashes into Vader. No room to maneuver.

Star Wars isn't just about power level wank. It's also about heroes and villains being in the right place at the right time, while making good use of their wits and intelligence.

Han and Chewie do what either of the previous two Xwing groups could have done for the preceding bombing run by cutting off the trench pursuit.

Pure conjecture here: The Rebels strategy to cram 3 fighters into the trench is probably to make top cover easier while getting at least one bomber through the turbolasers. The Rebels probably didn't adjust their strategy to cut off the TIEs in the trench because they were so busy trying not to fuck up the already difficult plan.

None of that at all diminishes Vader or Han.

given that this started with "Tarkin did nothing wrong" and "Without Luke there is no way the Rebels could have succeeded", I'm just going to end this here.
Even if Darth Vader didn't need to be a badass pilot to pull off what he did, TIE fighters were clearly the right idea and not sending them out was a fuckup by Tarkin caused by his arrogance, and without the TIES being out the Rebels would have had a chance of the shot even without Luke.

So Tarkin was being stupidly arrogant, and I'm leaving it at that.

Well venators were also supposed to assist acclamators in ground ops, but also be able to land a force individually (like a garrison) so i assume at the least a company (couple of platoons and command staff plus support)

In the same way, with aircraft carriers. Though they mostly rely on MLS for major troop operations, they are capable of airlifting a company in size from the flight deck in about platoon sized lifts.

So really i wouldnt suspect a venator of holding more than a company of troops at any given time, plus basic supplies, and supporting troops like medical and maybe heavy lift since all starwars troop units appear to be airmobile armored-cav units. AT-TE airlift was the coolest part about watching the geonosis battle scene.

>>The trench run shot is impossible without the force because I say so.

I don't really care about the rest of the argument, but that ones implied to be true by the plot itself.

Remember when Tarkins like "nothing can destroy this station lol" and Vaders like "dude this stations nothing compared to the power of the force lol"? That's foreshadowing.

And then of course, you have Ben's force ghost telling Luke to turn off his targeting computer and use the force. Ben wasn't just being a dick there, the targeting computer couldn't make that shot, neither could a human. It was the Force making the impossible possible.

Of course Rogue One took a massive shit all over that plot point, but what can you do?

>rogue one shit on it

Why exactly? It was designed into the superstructure, but that doesnt mean that Orso thought it out so that anyone could actually hit it.

>Of course Rogue One took a massive shit all over that plot point, but what can you do?

Not... really? The weakness that Galen put into the Death Star still required a pilot to dump a proton torpedo into the two meter wide auxiliary exhaust port just below the main port. It was still a stupidly difficult shot to get to that weakness.

What's interesting is that it seems like they never realised that the problem was with the reactor and used the same design with the same weakness for the DS2.
So once again, taking out the central reactor causes the entire thing to explode.

Don't they only turn off the trench guns to accommodate Vader sticking his nose in there? Obviously from the audience perspective we only see Porkins get surface lasered, but it's not a terribly hard argument to make that if Vader doesn't get involved that the Farmboy doesn't hit the "one-in-a-million" shot and Tarkin looks just fine.

Galen designed the reactor to be unstable, he did not individually design each exhaust port, he just facilitated the exhaust port being a necessity.

>the same weakness for the DS2.

They never planned on ships flying into the half finished DS2, that's the only reason the reactor was vulnerable.

The shot was possible by a normal pilot, or else Gen. Dodonna wouldn't have ordered the attack. All the other pilots either died before they could make it, and the one that did missed. It's not that the shot was impossible but that it'd make bad viewing for the protagonist not to make the shot.

so we can use what the movie shows to be true to argue that Darth Vader wasn't necessary because any TIE fighters could have done it.
But then ignore what the movie shows, to argue that TIE fighters weren't necessary and that the ground lasers were doing the job just fine.

And going further and saying that Vader actually screwed up Tarkin's genius tactical analysis.

God damn, I actually feel dumber reading the Discourse today