Aeldari hips edition
Past edition THIS IS THE FUCKING ROSTER CREATOR
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Why is it that people take issue with the Stormsurges creation when the Tau actually have a good reason for creating and fielding it in the face of the more powerful foes they were beginning to encounter?
The only real oddity I find with it is the fact that a Manta is used to carry it when the Tau have far more capable ships for transporting such machines of war.
3rd For Slaanesh
New boy is going to get eaten like any other buffet of Elder Souls
They didn't have a good reason. The reason was because GW wanted to make money by selling giant overpowered robots, so they wrote fluff that said "Tau flyers didn't work so they made titans too". The original Tau fluff was they thought Titans were stupid and titan guns on flyers was way smarter and fit their fighting style.
Imagine if they took the game in a good direction
They could have simply made an up-gunned flyer. The Broadiside suit could no longer hold weapons larger than its current loadout, so they put the larger one on a Hammerhead. The next larger one was too big for ground tanks so they put it on the Tigershark. The next larger gun was too big for the Tigershark so they put it on....the Riptide and Stormsurge? Why the fuck did they make the Tigershark and Hammerhead then if they could just make mechs bigger than the Broadside?
The real reason GW even wrote that shit is because the titan-gun flyers were FW.
Why didn't they just build a giant Tau tank at that rate, rather than a goofy-looking walker that looks like it could topple over anytime it fires its gun?
I mean, hell, Tau could have had their own version of a Terran Siege Tank with this. Replace the "Anchoring" mechanism with "Siege Mode" or something like that.
That would have been actually cool and make sense. But it wouldn't have sold as many models like the Riptide and Stormsurge and Imperial Knight.
its coming faggot, its coming.
Wisdom
But you have to admit the whole "flying gun" concept was kind of predictable and can fall apart if the enemy is planning for it.
Plus a Tigershark isn't exactly the hardest thing to shoot down.
No, they don't. If you want spaceship weapons on a land unit in case Tigersharks can't show up to titan-hunt, put them on a tank or an artillery piece.
More key, the Stormsurge's titan killing ability isn't even related to the big gun it's the smaller d missiles that they could theoretically put on a modified Sky Ray.
The fact that they're also using a many a to carry it in means that they clearly have a many a they could stick the guns on to use as an anti-titan craft.
The Stormaurge flies in the face of all the previous fluff that said Tau found Titans impractical and favored mobility over stationary defense.
You'd think the Tau would be able to into mobile skimmer artillery.
That's why they had other things, like Hammerhead teams to plunk away from it at long range. Longstrike got a headshot on a Warhound once. Why not work off of an existing platform that's proven to work well?
Stormsurge is literally a Terran Siege tank/Broadside in Riptide form.
Maybe walkers and walking machines of war are better for mounting the more destructive weapons one can find in the 40k setting?
On 40k Battlefields, aren't the most destructive weapons ,not found on fortifications, usually found on Titans, Gargants and the like?
I don't recall any Super-Heavy tank being near about as powerful as Titan grade machines are.
If Riptide and Stormsurge is big. What you say for Supremacy?
For you.
>That's why they had other things, like Hammerhead teams to plunk away from it at long range.
Wouldn't that be extremely costly given their target is likely well within striking distance to blow away said Hammerhead teams?
> Longstrike got a headshot on a Warhound once.
Do we know that was anything other than extreme luck? I haven't exactly heard of that being replicated since that particular incident.
>favored mobility over stationary defense.
I thought they were reevaluating that in the face of their enemies counter-attacks in the Third Sphere of Expansion?
>Tau get a massive tank
>MFW it's classified as a Monstrous Creature because the tank crew get inside suits which are inside the tank
I want to make my first army. How are the space shark rules for fighting iron warriors and nids?
Pretty great. Marines are a powerful codex, and you can turn nearly any unit into a makeshift melee machine by buying them cheap as fuck CCWs. Also, RAGE!
The Megaptera Contingency Warship is classified as a Gargantuan Creature because the veteran Air Caste crew within can pilot the massive hovership so nimbly, that it dances as if it were the most graceful of battlesuits.
- Counts as Flyer against enemy shooting attacks.
- May fire at full effect while Jinking
- Vector Dancer
>Wouldn't that be really costly?
It can be, and requires quite a few tanks. That's a good reason to try and make a more heavily armored and shielded tank with the even longer range D railguns, rather than something that stands out even more and only has 4 D missiles to try and do its job.
Seriously, the Stormaurge only fires 2 S 10 blasts unless it anchors, and 4 if it does. If there's only one titan, you can do the same job with 4 Hammerheads.
Also, Longstrike is a Tank Ace. It's very clearly skill, even if I was more luck that the opportunity arose.
Look to here for inspiration
bolterandchainsword.com
Even if they were, it makes more sense to build giant Skimmer tanks that can be both defensive and mobile, alongside actual stationary defenses.
Actual Space Shark player here. Any squad that activates all its melee bonuses will go berserk and forced to move towards the nearest enemy after every pile in. This means after raping something behind the corner of a building, your squad will most likely run out into the open like a bunch of dipshits to be shot to death.
You're also not allowed to use any allies or units like Inquisitors or Saint Celestine except as a Desperate Ally, which sucks. You also cannot ally non-Imperial armies at all. Even if the unit is in your primary detachment, like Belisarius Cawl, Inquisitor Greyfax, or Saint Celestine, if they are not Faction: Space Marines and Chapter Tactics: Carcharodons, they will be Desperate Allies and must stay 6" away or risk a suspicion test and will never be able to share bonuses, join squads, share spells, or share transports.
Carcharodons are a 100% dedication army. You must be 100% dedicated to only Carcharodons, and 100% dedicated to only assault (or run a shitty shooting army).
>I don't recall any Super-Heavy tank being near about as powerful as Titan grade machines are.
shadowsword/stormblade/baneblades in general
Superheavy tank squadrons are titan killers, as are regular heavy tank (land raider/leman russ) squadrons. Game-wise they aren't as close, but that's largely because of abstractions/inconsistent rules.
>That's a good reason to try and make a more heavily armored and shielded tank with the even longer range D railguns
Don't those usually fair very poorly against Titans?
Most of the time I've read about Baneblades or Shadow Swords attempting to tackle a Titan, they're destroyed in a quick and almost effortless fashion.
youtube.com
More like HotHobbyMilf
Well thanks for shitting on that idea user
Just do White Scars.
Huh, this is actually a pretty good tutorial.
Even if they do, the Tau have no reason to think so. They probably don't witness Shadowsword vs. Titan fights very often, and if they did they would probably figure it was caused by poorer construction of the tank rather than any subtle ' rule of cool' that makes titans effective.
The Tau should be working off of science and practicality.
Picture this, a skimmer tank, double the size of the hammerhead. Twin linked D railguns, 4 of those D missiles, extra side and rear armor, 6 hullpoints, and the front gun drones replaced with shield drones to give it a 5++ on that facing. Let it squadron with 2 normal Hammerheads.
There's your titan killer. Hammerheads get rid of void shields and help draw fire, D railguns finish it off while D missiles help supplement the barrage.
how can mentally ill men even compete?
Whys that?
The big problem with AT in 40k is the game system favors "rapid-firing" midstrength weapons (Autocannons, High-Yield Missile Pods, etc), or Haywire/Grav for killing tanks, rather than weapons with smaller numbers of high-strength shots (Lascannons/Railguns/etc).
This is because it's mathematically far easier/more likely to get 3 glances/pens and kill a tank by HP depletion rather than getting a lucky Explode.
I've had some thoughts on how such a system could be fixed:
-Give all vehicles more HP. 3-5 HP for a Rhino or so, etc. (This bears playtesting.)
-Adjust vehicle damage modifiers from AP 3 onward, so AP 1 does +3 on the vehicle damage modifier table.
-Tank Hunters re-rolls vehicle damage results rather than to penetrate. Combine with Ordnance/Armorbane for nasty results. (Optionally, Demo Charges should be Armorbane too)
-Replace "Vehicle Destroyed" with "Massive Damage", meaning it immediately suffers an extra D3 HP loss.
>Should I play this army I have done no research on?
>This is how they play
>Thanks for shitting on that idea
You are the worst kind of faggot on here. People help you and you say that shit? Fuck off.
>The Tau should be working off of science and practicality.
Their new approach might be practical withing the realm of 40k.
> double the size of the hammerhead.
Wouldn't that be easy to hit too?
>There's your titan killer. Hammerheads get rid of void shields and help draw fire, D railguns finish it off while D missiles help supplement the barrage.
Won't they get blown away at once if they're in a squadron? Most pie plates I see the big boys chucking take out the target and whatever happens to be immediately near it.
What's the best thing to use the 3 fast attack slots for dark eldar with
I meant it sarcastically you dumb double nigger.
I really like Haywire Scourges or 3 Reaver w/Blaster and Caltrops.
>3 Fast Attack Slots
You mean 6 because Realspace Raiders, and it's Reaver Jetbikes. 6 dudes, 2 with Blasters & Caltrops.
I suppose you could take some Haywire Scourges if you really want to.
>Sarcastically
So you are still going to collect it then? Or do you not even know how to use English?
>Implying everyone knows the context of your words
Please just leave, you are not wanted here.
Probably, though they do sound like their tactics might be a bit harder for someone completely new to the game. Nobody else seems to be sperging out besides you, so I think I'll just stay and there is fuck all you can do about it.
My only concern with Realspace Raiders is losing access to ObSec for a fairly minor benefit.
>Won't they get blown away at once if they're in a squadron?
no? spacing, dude.
Reavers are the best. Scourges and Razorwings also work.
Rate my list. Give me feedback.
DE are so fragile that they make poor use of ObSec.
Tiger sharks are more upgunned, more mobile, more durable than a Stormsurge.
That justification kinda works for a Taunar, especially with the propaganda impact a true Titan has, but the Stormsurge is a failure in all aspects: Visual design, fluffiness and rules design (where it's powerful, but very ungracefully executed).
>x6 fast attack slots
>a fairly minor benefit
>Tiger sharks are more upgunned, more mobile, more durable than a Stormsurge.
But are easy to shoot down and aren't viable where heavy AA is expected.
>Might be practical
If it is, they have no way of knowing. There's no reason to try something that's impractical for their beliefs, even if those beliefs are flawed.
>Easy to hit
Think length and width. Height is what makes things easier to hit. Another reason the Stormaurge isn't ideal.
>Die all at once
That's what the shield is for. The other hammerheads are more disposable in this sense. They're there as extra escorts and firepower. If they die due to some massive blast, then so would that Tau gun line Stormsurges love to stand in the middle of.
I'm not saying it's going to be some flawlesa titan killer. I'm saying that it'll be a viable land based option that makes sense to field alongside Tigersharks.
stormsurges aren't either, as any mobile operation is going to require a manta escort to cart the thing around
Oh, oh, and I almost for fucking got: Destroyer missiles are the true anti-Titan innovation.
You know where would be a better place to mount destroyer missiles?
On -literally any other seeker missile platform-.
A destroyer Skyray would be fuckin' terrifying, able to carry two more missiles, mark it's own targets, Skyfire if needed, and probably still cost less to field than a Stormsurge because it's just an upgrade to it's single use missiles.
I haven't played in awhile how are Necrons fairing against Tau and Eldar?
>stormsurges aren't either, as any mobile operation is going to require a manta escort to cart the thing around
Now that I do not understand.
The Tau had special landers set aside to deliver the Riptides to Argellan, rather than wasting a ship they could use to use to transport a Cadre or assist in orbital fighting.
I don't know why they wouldn't do the same for the Stormsurge.
1st place cheese: Eldar
2nd place cheese: Tau
3rd place cheese: Necrons
honourable mention cheese: certain formations in Space marines
At the competitive level, a skilled commander has a realistic chance of beating Eldar, but the odds aren't in their favor.
They are pretty even with Tau. Tau actually aren't that OP, just not fun to play against imo.
Has anyone in 40K lore ever become uncorrupted or broken free from Chaos or been healed from it in some way?
Damn right!
>t. Marinefaggot who doesn't know about Daemons
Necrons are the gateway to the top-tier. Top-tier armies like Tau and Eldar can usually beat them, however.
Imagine fight between Fulgrim/Zarakynel and avatar of Ynnead.
No. However there have been those who sought redemption in death, such as a Chaos cultist remembering who he was and killing himself after realizing that he slew an imperial guardsman.
>He doesn't know about Daemons
My sweet summer child...
Word Bearers novel, right?
It's best to consider the Stormsurge some meddling Etherial's pet project.
He didn't know enough technical stuff to know why he was giving his earth caste designers poor instructions, and they automatically considered them genius because Etherial.
And by the time it hit mass production it was too late to cover up. An Etherial had publically endorsed it, so the other Etherials had to back the stupid thing.
It'll be quietly phased out as soon as they can make something vaguely similar but more effective to call it redundant without contradicting themselves.
I do pretty well with 4 ObSec Warrior Squads in Venoms. That amounts to 8 ObSec choices for a very minor cost.
Its solid but I far prefer ObSec to having extra FA - especially when I can just take two CADs and get 6 FA while still keeping ObSec.
To be honest, it's probably better to have more than one way of dealing with a Titan on hand.
Demonstrates Tau adaptability to me that they aren't just relying on a single Flyer to do the job anymore.
Yeah. Even if there was some justification that they required more a
Space or energy so a sky ray could only carry two, a pair would still be matching a Stormaurge for firepower.
Is it cheesy to bring Coteaz with a Guard force?
>I don't know why
that's basically the question you have to ask about everything with the stormsurge
>why not use a tank?
>why not use a plane?
>if long range AAA is an issue, why make a slow-ass walker that requires airlifting into battle by those same planes?
Thing is, they've been using that same excuse for EVERY stupid big suit.
I could almost buy into that, like how the Stealth Suit armor from 3rd ed Tau was very obviously "Fire Warrior armor with Burst Cannons" before they got an updated model, or Broadsides were obviously Crisis Suits before they became "Rifleman" suits or so.
Honestly, if I were to ever do Tau (I'm not but that's another story), I would probably use them as a "counts as" army for Starcraft Terrans or something goofy like that. Vulture Piranhas, a Siege Tank Stormsurge or so...*shrug*.
This is better but switch out the autocannons for flamer on the drakes
Use squads of 6 MoN CSM with combimelta/meltagun so it takes 4 kills to get victory points, plagues are a bit overpriced.
Once a roll to penetrate has been made require the shooting player to roll the application or higher for the weapon to remove a hullpoint. AP - is unable to harm vehicles.
So now your lascannons are significantly better than autocannon at killing vehicles
May need to reduce hullpoints
Nah, the whole book is going to end in a stalemate with nothing really happening like the first one did. At most the dark city will be destroyed and the Eldar are forced to not hide like bitches for once.
>May need to reduce hullpoints
>AP1 auto passes
nah, it'd probably be fine to keep them the same
Application = ap
Ficking auto correct
Correct!
Screw this Aeldari shit, I just want to see what toys beep-boops will get from Imperial Armor 14.
>>why not use a tank?
Maybe they're in capable of mounting the technology that gives the Stormsurge it's edge.
>>why not use a plane?
Their enemies probably already expect that and plan for it accordingly. A single tactic for handling something leads to predictability, which can lead to ruin.
>in capable of mounting the technology
what technology? None of the weapons are significantly larger than the tank-mounted equivalents. It doesn't have the jet pack. Its only real benefit is standing stock still, which is something the tau hate doing on principle.
Wounds against one vehicle in a squadron spread to other vehicles in the squadron should the first be destroyed. So if you get a pair of D-hits on one hammerhead and the first one rolls a 6 on the D-table, then the next D-shot hits the next hammerhead in addition to the explosion of the destroyed hammerhead. Like a squad of troops, this can be negated if the next tank in line has a cover save or is completely hidden from the firer's view.
In one of the official events years ago, one of the cards that's drawn between rounds featured a captain of a chaos vessel that reflects on his life, how empty he feels, the bonds he's under, and eventually comes to a realization as they set out for some Black Crusade. He asks for the Emperor's forgiveness and flies his ship into a sun to deny the crusade at least one ships worth of monsters - the rules of the card denied the chaos players one ship that round.
I wouldn't consider that canon though.
In a much more clear example, however, Luther repents as a champion of Chaos Undivided after striking down The Lion. Doing so has left him half-mad and useless, but for 10,000 years he has insisted that the Lion will eventually recover and absolve him of his sins.
In similar theme, certain Dark Angel chaplains are asserted to have made Fallen repent before they are slain. It is considered the highest achievement for a DA chaplain, and they have some little marker for how many times a chaplain has succeeded in it. Don't quote me on this, but IIRC, Asmodai is one of the most successful chaplains in this endeavor, having done something like 3 or 4 himself.
Oh, found it. Here we are, pic related. Apparently Asmodai is not the one I recall.
At that rate, you might as well revert to using 5th ed damage rules, with glances being "damage table -2" or so. Which would make Gladius even better in the long run because 5e really favored "lots of cheap mech" over smaller numbers of heavy vehicles due to this.
I like the "More HP, but make it easier for AP 1-3 weapons to strip off more HP" approach as it feels simpler overall, and gives such weapons more chance against stuff like Scatter Lasers/Autocannons (which it should be...dedicated AT weapons shouldn't be less effective than general-purpose guns at killing tanks).
Nope. Asmodai is number 3, iirc. There was one dude who got 8.
>Their enemies probably already expect that and plan for it accordingly. A single tactic for handling something leads to predictability, which can lead to ruin.
Really, dude? And I guess the enemies who have been fighting Titans vs. Titans for 10,000+ years won't be ready to face your new Tau titan?
Well, looks like I had Assy's number right. According to the pic I posted, the very most ever was Master Molocia, who had 10.
>Maybe they're in capable of mounting the technology that gives the Stormsurge it's edge.
Explain to me that logic? I don't know if you've noticed, but most tanks are built the way they are to minimize profile, and weight while maximizing mobility and firepower. Walkers...are stupid constructions that focus all the weight of the vehicle into two large obvious targets called legs. Maximizing profile, minimizing the spread of load over the ground, making it more difficult to move strategically and generally more difficult to service because the primary weapon systems are FIVE STORIES OFF THE GROUND! Given that the Tau have skimmer technology this is especially inexcusable. An oversized hammerhead would be much more sensible.
If you can fit it on a Riptide, I guarantee it would fit better on a properly designed tank.
> If you can fit it on a Riptide, I guarantee it would fit better on a properly designed tank.
Yeah, but have you considered that mechs are way cooler than tanks?
they aren't, though
>what technology?
Maybe that which the Stormsurge uses for power generation?
I remember the lore pointing out that it's power requirements are such that it has two reactors.
And they've been fighting Flyer vs Flyer for far longer.
Plus they'll likely be watching the skies for something like the Tigershark if they know that's the only way the Tau can neutralize a Titan class threat.
>Maybe that which the Stormsurge uses for power generation?
There's nothing really stopping them from putting those same generators on a skimmer.
Tanks can be pretty fucking awesome though. From Siege Tanks, Mammoth Tanks in Command & Conquer, Battletanx, the tanks from Hammer's Slammers...
They're cool to anyone who doesn't understand how physics work.
Thanks, that's an amazing post. I didn't know if Luther had been corrupted long enough for it to truly count.
I was running an RP and someone wanted to do a story about an aspiring champion of chaos being cured of his corruption through an elder god's intervention. Not sure if that can fly though.