Warmachine/Hordes General /wmhg/

You mean highwaymen?

honerable mention to runeshapers.

reposing this question because I would like help with army positioning

Runeshapers are as bad as your ability to spell.

JML are always kind of a balance shitshow. Trolls get btfo week 1-3, malekus and some flamethrower bros kill your entire battlegroup first few weeks. It's good times.

highwaymen are bad. No camo means that they can't be used as counter shooting units and their range is still terrible. It doesn't hurt that due to krielstone cost bump, you don't want to take the full unit + elder so stealth is also an issue.

Just a lot of mediocre meh in general.

they are fine. They protect themselves, they go where needed, they have boxes so they don't auto die to snipers. they certainly deliver themselves better than fire eaters for most part and not completely useless while engaged

Why are people in these threads always such cunts anyway? No one ever writes a post that somehow doesn't always involve insulting someone else.

It's the product of the Veeky Forums/anonymous mentality.

Anons gonna user -- Need to filter that out when you read.

Does anyone here happen to have a scan/ picture of the Blighted Warlord or Hellmouth cards?

No, you can attack a very large amount of prime times.

No, I mean brigands.

Oh wait you're talking about farrow
I was looking through the trollbloods units and I couldn't find a unit called brigands

It's my birthday and I play Skorne. My faction is still more or less shit after the errata. Please cheer me up.

if you think that Skorne is still shit after the errata, the only thing you should be asking for for your birthday is the ability to git gud.

If you can't handle Archie, there are far worse things waiting for you down the line. He's actually good now, thanks to the errata, but he's still basically a medium warbeast. What are you playing that you're having trouble?

Literally the only relevant changes are to warlocks and the return of free charges. Titans didn't get back their DEF12, Karn didn't get back Mk2 Fate Walker, Beatback is still shit, our solos are still shit, our infantry is still shit.

Brigands might be one of the best units in Hordes and if you want a shooty u it in Trolls they are the best choice.

Troll players that argue for Highwaymen are just bad. The unit is bad, straight up. Garbage stats, high point cost, and the fact that you need a bunch of support just makes the opportunity cost too high to be worthwhile

>I play Skorne
>My faction is still more or less shit after the errata

Karn didn't get mk2 fate walker because jackhammer would be impossible to give mak1

Which means Carnage is relegated to the "too dangerous to realistically use well" tier. Meanwhile everyone else with Carnage either has a bigger bubble, or ways to protect themselves.

Krielstone.

Go read that errata again... as many times as it takes to actually understand the changes. That should cheer you up.

If you are still not cheered up, then you either have a brain defect that makes you unable to understand how this game works, or you have a separate but unrelated brain defect that makes you incapable of experiencing happiness. Which... sucks either way, honestly. So hopefully, re-reading the errata cheers you up.

>I'm going to say absolutely nothing constructive and just throw insults around
Top quality posting, right here on Veeky Forums. Allow me to list the models that are still shit and why. I'll ignore warlocks.

>Sentinel
16 point single shot gun with a small aoe and small range
>Drake
8 points for a single spray 8
>Krea
Infantry isn't worth spending another 7 points to protect it with a model that's useless against warjacks when there's less guns on the table and Makeda1 got buffed into relevance
>Savage
Only a complete overhaul could make this crock of shit useful
>Shaman
Talisman still doesn't work through arc nodes
>Reptile Hound
Actually got nerfed
>Rhinodon
Still not good enough
>Scarabs
Still not good enough
>Cannoneer
No one brings infantry that dies to that blast
>Arcuarii
Complete trash
>Incindiarii
No one brings infantry in the kind of numbers you need to make your points back
>Advocate
Immortals are still bad
>Keltarii
Go ahead tie up the gunline, they're all MAT7 and will go through your ARM like a hot knife through butter
>TyCom
Doesn't do enough for 6 points
>Slingers
Still no good at killing or debuffing anything
>Ancestral Guardian
Immortals are still bad
>Marketh
Still can't cast anything relevant
>Hakaar
Immortals are still bad

Add the warlock changes to this and you've got the bulk of the errata. Hence why I believe that the only real changes to Skorne were warlocks and free charges.

>Literally the only relevant changes are to warlocks and the return of free charges.
OK, first... go look up what the word "literally" means, you sound like a damn fool.

Back? OK, to the question... HOW do you figure? Getting free charges back, and the various warlock changes ARE big deal items, but hardly the only ones.

1) You got buffs sprinkled liberally across your whole stable of beasts. Changes to the bronzeback or the aradus, in the vacuum, aren't that big - but taken together you now have a dozen or more useful beasts, where before you had three.

2) Answers to gunlines are everywhere now. Krea, the Hydra, Keltarii - not only are they individually answers, but their abilities can be stacked to get as much protection as you need.

3) Random other buffs are just scattered around. A whole class of units just randomly got tough AND got cheaper. Immortals / AG's got their core mechanics retooled. Costs got lowered here and there. Again, nothing earth shattering individually, but you need to look at the whole picture.

Results of the last big (35 players is big for us now) tournament in Poland:
tournykeeper.com/#/tournament/details/228

It was fun format, 3x 75 pts with ban:
>Before selecting the lists players present all 3 lists to their opponent. Than every player chooses one list that his or her opponent will be unable to use during the game. Than everything proceeds as normal and players choose from their remaining 2 lists.

Top10:
1. Cryx
2. CoC
3. PoM
4. Khador
5. CoO
6. PoM
7. Cryx
8. Cygnar
9. Cryx
10. LoE

Best Trolls: 13
Best Skorne: 19 (just one player, the other one dropped after the first day
Best Merc: 12
Best Minions: 24 (just one player, it was his first tournament)
Best RoS: 33 (just one player)

The whole picture is the same as it was before. Fuck off with that "buffs sprinkled liberally" shit. Gladiators were nerfed, Sentries weren't change, and Bronzebacks didn't need that point of fury anyway. Immortals still require expensive bad solos to be as fast as the rest of our infantry. They also require Hakaar to not be MAT6. Why would I bring them why I could just bring Nihilators or Swordsmen? And as for answers to gunlines, gunlines were never really a problem in the first place. ARM19 heavies were already a solid answer to them. Unless you're advocating some hardcore list chicken that is because oh boy I love boiling games down to a coinflip.

I'm not magically winning games now that my Bronzeback could've bought 3 more attacks instead of the 2 it needed to pound an enemy heavy into mush. And I'm slowly coming to hate the Gladiator now since a Sentry is just better. 15 points for what amounts to a support heavy, fucking brilliant.

Nah son, you're just a shitter. Get good and fuck off

That format actually sounds really cool. Means Circle doesn't need Una2 to do well and Circle players are just big bitches.

>Meanwhile in Skorne manages 19th

Ah yes, that one dude, who we have no idea how good he is and still got a respectable 19 out of 35

>Respectable
>Bottom half of the table
>Literally a losing record
>Respectable
>Right after a "huge" errata

Is it just me or trollkin champion hero and fennblade kithkar sculpts were accidentally swapped during production and they decided to go along with it? Kithkar is stockier, has two medium-length weapons and a bright armor with visibly parting pieces. Hero is lankier, has a single long weapon and. A less ornamental, more concise armor. They perfectly fit each others units. Was this ever addressed?

Champion Hero was released 4 years before Kithkar.

>C-CoC is b-bad
>C-cryx is b-bad!!

BOW DOWN FLESHY FUCKS

I want to see that format catch on.

I posted the tournament in my LGS's Facebook group and people said they liked the idea. It deals with obvious problem casters.

Yes right after a huge errata, as in about a week after. I doubt anyone other than the highest tier tournament players could reasonably parse and test that many changes in a week. I'm not saying they're amazing now, all I'm saying is it's too soon to tell. That guy could be the best player in that tournament who struggled his way to 19th with 3 shit lists, or he could be an equally skilled player as the rest of them but simply didn't build the right 3 list pairings for the matchups he got.

>I doubt anyone other than the highest tier tournament players could reasonably parse and test that many changes in a week
Oh shut up you actual fucking cuckold.

Talk with your local TOs about it. Pretty much every player liked it.

do you have anything to say besides buzzwords?

That you're basically just handing PP a get out of jail free card on the Skorne errata is why you're a cuckold. If Skorne did well you'd say the errata was a success, if Skorne did badly as they did you say the players haven't had time to parse the changes. Just admit it, the changes were nowhere near as impactful as they'd need to be to make Skorne competitive.

Our store ran one of those in December. Everybody loved it

Let it lie, user. Why do you think I didn't respond? It's obvious he doesn't want to have a conversation about it, so why bother.

I think the main thing that the 3 list format does is remove a lot of the list chicken and generally polarized matchups, while at the same time dealing with problem casters in a way that PP refuses to. My next Steamroller is too soon to change to this format but I can easily see our next one using it.

Look who finally arrived.

Model name accurately describes kit.

There was a reply posted 10 minutes before you posted this.

Does no one on /wmhg/ clean their keyboards? Savages.

I actually bought a new one yesterday, I just couldn't be bothered to hook it up yet. : >

>Take 3, ban 1
Ugh, not this again

I'm glad this worked out for you guys but this format inevitably devolves into a crapfest and just doesn't work.

Here's what always happens:

Somebody brings 2 to 3 of versions of a skew list, say Khador jack spam, bans their opponents one answer to their skew, and then steamrolls the event.

It's a neat idea but somebody always ruins it

>Best Trolls: 13
*Sigh*

Yeah, I'm sure the Khador player who came 4th would've just run spam lists and won the tournament if he was as smart as you.

So models are first disabled, then boxed, then destroyed. This means that the Hellmouth spell and Snacking don't prevent you from rolling tough, as they remove from play when the model is boxed. Intredasting.

There was one player with two bunny spam Merc lists, one with Gorten and one with Ossrum, the third list was Bart with Galleon, two Nomads and some other stuff. He was 12th.

I'm glad to hear you agree that spam lists aren't really a problem with 3 list formats. I mean, without Karchev's feat making Mad Dogs an actual threat for a turn, the spam list wouldn't have been anywhere near as effective.

It somewhat caught on in Germany. I really wish we'd see it more often though. It gets rid of so many terrible games.

You don't need to be rude, we have no idea what the Khador player was running. It's possible they didn't have the models necessary to run multiple skew lists for example. The list is what, 6 to 8 Marauders now?

I am saying that this what the format always devolves into though. Back in Mk2 the issue would be a player bringing multiple Cryx dude spam lists, banning your Cryx answer and then winning pretty handily. Other factions couldn't really take multiple Cryx drops because then an armor skew would just ban your one good list into them and then you'd usually be stuck with a bunch of low pow guns into Meat Mountain or something like that.

Now it's the same issue but with different skews, I listed the Khador jack spam one as a random example. Other lists present similar problems and the format just punishes people who want to bring all comers list.

If you want to try the format I wish you luck but as soon as someone figures out the trick to winning it's pretty much game over

Khador player = tryhard spamfag

Why would anyone play this aesthetically superior faction for any reason other than that they're overpowered and autowin tournaments?

The true hero is obviously the Cryx player. He defeated mk3 despite playing a faction that is "literally the worst faction in the game".

Don't be silly, Troll players bitch at least twice as hard as Cryx players.

As has been said often, Cryx isn't necessarily a horrible faction power wise. It's just that the options at the top end of the power curve are so horrifically narrow.

Well, not without reason. Trolls are pretty terribad now

This
They're not bad this season and weren't bad last season and they STILL bitched about being too weak. Then and Khador players are the worst about crying incessantly for petty reasons.

Not sure what you mean by season, but if you mean Trolls were OK in Mk2 that's kinda true. They had a pretty short list of good options in Mk2 and unfortunately that list got shorter in the transition to mk3.

They're OK, but they're options are severely limited and the faction, as a whole, is pretty weak into some of the best/most popular lists in the meta.

I wouldn't say Trolls are the worst in the game, but their balance could seriously use some work

I agree user. Trolls have some absolutely garbage tier warlocks.

Madrak 1 is probably the worst in the game. Jarl and Borka 2 are pretty garbage too.

Plus, I know when I play against Trolls, they just look boring as fuck. Looks like they lost what made them Trolls in Mark 2. PP fucked them up pretty good, as far as making them unique. Just fucking bland now.

How to grow community at local game store

Guess i made a mistake in grabbbing these!

Yeah they only keep winning big tournaments.

>Axer
used only for his animus
>2x Impaler
overcosted, Bomber does more than two of them and is cheaper
>Grissel1
bad, no feat, on of the worst warlocks in the game
>2x Scattergunner
meh at best, you need 4 or 8 more
>2x Kriel Warrior
usable if you want to drown your enemy in cheap bodies, you need 4 or 8 more
>Sons of Bragg
really bad
>2x Chronicler
one could see some play if you have 4 spare points or something, there are many much better choices
>Long Rider
you need 2 or 4 more, 1" range is a joke, weak attacks without any dmg buffs
>Whelps
ok, those are decent, even if you don't put them in your list you still need those models when running Mountain King, also often free in Power of Dhunia
>Doomshaper1
not terribad, fun warlock
>Madrak1
just bad and boring

No but really, you can just click view in the link to see everyone's lists. The Khador player used lots of infantry and like 50 points of jacks in each list.

They suck because they aren't fun to play, but that pretty much goes for mk3 in general.

What exactly does "fun to play" even mean? Should Banes be juggling colourful balls as they charge across the battlefield? Should Cryx heavies fire confetti and sunny days?

>tournykeeper.com/#/tournament/details/228

I can honestly say I am surprised at Cryx taking the top. Not because it can't happen, but because Deneghra 2 is widely considered to be one of our worst casters now, and because I do not see the Witch Coven anywhere.

Winning a tournament with a caster that doesn't have a feat in a faction that has been so dramatically nerfed is impressive- it really speaks to the skill of the top player.

There's not a lot of inter-faction synergy left. The changes to Spell Slave made it so that only 1/4 of the spells in the faction are usable with it, and of those 1/4, a fair amount do nothing, and even more are just shitty nuke spells.

I think that some of our crucial offensive upkeep spells are overcosted compared to buff spells- you don't need to boost a buff spell to hit and receive the same benefit.

A lot of our units overlap in terms of role- killing light infantry. We have a lot of that, so more diversity in terms of role would be welcome. Even Bane Warriors (our premiere heavy-target-killers) are incentivized to go after light infantry with the mini-feat on their UA "kill a dude, turn it into a bane warrior".

Cryx isn't 'bad' but they are one of the less good factions, and they are not as interesting as several other factions in terms of synergy and interactions. Also the 'defining faction characteristics' for Cryx are "swarms of shitty infantry backed up by powerful casters and deadly magic". Our primary infantry are elite Satyxis, our casters are somewhat underwhelming with a handful of exceptions, and our magic is not as good as several other factions.

Denny2 has a strong spell list (ARM debuffs, DEF debuffs, Hellmouth, all in a faction with arc nodes), and while her feat isn't obviously insane, it does deprive enemy warnouns of attacks by choking resources. It also means that your heavies can just barely fail to kill an enemy heavy, while allowing your gunlines to finish it off since it's only +1DEF in combat now.

>The changes to Spell Slave made it so that only 1/4 of the spells in the faction are usable with it, and of those 1/4, a fair amount do nothing, and even more are just shitty nuke spells.
Join the club.

>I think that some of our crucial offensive upkeep spells are overcosted compared to buff spells- you don't need to boost a buff spell to hit and receive the same benefit.
Join the club.

>A lot of our units overlap in terms of role- killing light infantry
Dude are you joining this club or what?

>our casters are somewhat underwhelming with a handful of exceptions, and our magic is not as good as several other factions
Somewhat underwhelming? You're a faction full of 7+ focus casters with 5+ spells each, and ARM debuffs out the fucking wazoo. Like what the fuck do you want?

>Cryx
>gunlines

Something more than moving towards the enemy so you can hit it in close combat.

Looking at the winner WTC results....
2016 - 4:2
2015 - 5:1
2014 - 6:0
Bretty good.

>Like what the fuck do you want?
Vocal Cryx players seem to want to go back to the days when their list construction consisted of checking if the warcaster's feat worked well with infantry spam.

Now that they have to think like everyone else they feel like their faction in garbage.

Cryx does have a few problems, like dealing with gunlines is harder for them than most other factions and their own ranged game is lacking. Their jacks aren't easily spammable and as such can struggle against box spam.

BUT, Mk3 Cryx is now what Cryx was supposed to be all along, a magic-based faction. Almost every hole in your models can be patched by the right caster. Baseline Cryx is just slightly underperforming, but land the right spell and suddenly your unit becomes a massive threat.

Cryx babies just need to learn to be smart with their casters. Pick the right tool for the job.

Can you guys recommend me some things to run with Vlad1? I never played him before, but I had the luck to pick him up at a local flee market yesterday.

I thought about using Ruin and a Spriggan for the 12"-14" charges and use my Rocket Corps, because that seems just broken with Signs and Potents.

But where do I go from there?

Spam gunlines and cast Signs & Portents every turn. That's basically it. It's hella strong.

Important Worst Faction strawpoll
strawpoll.me/12193199

Let's settle this once and for all. Winner gets an expected reply from PP, detailing as to why they can't give said faction an errata.

Why isn't Skorne on this list? Both Trolls and Cryx placed higher than them in Poland. The factions placing lower were new players and people who only owned enough models for 1 list.

I'm voting for Cryx. Both them and Trolls are in dire need of a serious errata, but at least Trolls still have their faction identity largely intact. PP doesn't seem to understand what the hell the want to do with Cryx any more.

PP doesn't know what to do with ANY faction. Lets just be real here. All this shit about faction identity means nothing when the game boils down to rock em sock em robots.

What if his gums were his mouth? Look how happy he is!

Because there was literally a Skorne errata, and don't even say that nuSkorne is worse than Cryx or Trolls

>flee market
Psychology checks were removed from Mk3, you're good.

We're all fearless now, my brave user