This is how easy it is to make money on the B_Classic delegate faucet

In that case we could run a week long or even just a few days, lowest roll wins.

We're probably going to be running some fun events with prizes around Christmas - New Year's related to the faucets, you might enjoy those so stay tuned.

The new captcha is annoying, sometimes you get some legible and sometimes both words are half out of the box.

No in fact the faucet is not independent of biz_classic payouts.

You claim triple faucet payouts to be an advantage and component of the payout structure of your delegate. You're abusing degenerating aspects of human psychology to increase the number of wallets sending votes your way. It's a fine practice. Everyone successful economic enterprise in the world exploits other people to gain access to resources so they can utilize them better than those from whom they were taken.

Just be honest though, you could pay more but you don't. You could avoid taking advantage of short term unpredictable reward neurochemistry, and just pay expected value to voters, but you don't, you make more profit for yourselves as a result.

Again, the faucet isn't funded by biz_classic. Here's your last (You).

It's kind of funny. Back when biz_classic first got into the top 51, 90% payouts were the highest out of any delegate since most others were paying 75-80%

How long does it take for verification to come through? I sent it Yesterday

Near instant. Did you verify the transaction went through on the blockchain?

It doesn't matter where the funding for the faucet comes from when you make the faucet payout dependent on participation in biz_classic voting. The two are not independent anymore.

I did not refute the fact that biz_classic does not fund the faucet and indeed I understand this. Seemingly you don't understand the margin.

Your triple faucet is an incentive for participation in biz_classic. It is likely that such an incentive drives participation to increase revenue gained by biz_classic. It doesn't matter if biz_private pays the bill for that gimmick.

(You) should stop pretending to be benevolent. It's fine, I'm even glad you're clever enough to make more profit, that's how you should behave, just don't misrepresent that fact that you're taking advantage of the illogical behavior brought about by gambling rewards to reap greater gains than you otherwise would.

None of (You) can't stop me from collecting the (You)s I covet.

A lot of people vote for biz_classic because of their contributions and their stability and are ok with taking a slightly smaller payout. This is the case with a lot of "community" delegates, like the reddit dude as well, who only pays 80%

Okay, I'll bite since this seems like a serious conversation and not just an attempt to FUD.

>you make the faucet payout dependent on participation in biz_classic voting

It's not. Having a bonus for voters doesn't make it mandatory. In fact, some of our highest rollers and earners aren't even voters.

>Your triple faucet is an incentive for participation in biz_classic. It is likely that such an incentive drives participation

You cracked the case sherlock, we never tried to say otherwise.

>to increase revenue gained by biz_classic. It doesn't matter if biz_private pays the bill for that gimmick.

This part, however, is completely wrong. Our profit is not dependent on the amount of voters. Our profit does not really change based on voter count. We make no additional profit from new voters from the faucet - that "gimmick" you speak of is only there to help keep biz_classic rock solid and forging permanently. We've been successful so far. It doesn't generate us any extra income, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make - there's no clever trick we're pulling to extract more money from faucet converts - it doesn't net us anything except a long term stability advantage which directly benefits our voters.

All the delegates are in competition with each other. We stay competitive by providing tools and advantages others don't, and our security is what puts us over the top. The faucet and stability of biz_classic helps ensure active and engaged voters exceed the payouts of other delegates. Go ahead and look at the bottom of the Top 51, then parse the blockchain a few weeks back in time and see how many of in the Top 51 (including those in the Top 5 currently) dropped out.

We still provide a faucet funded fully by a second delegate we take no profit from. There's your "benevolence".

rolling everyday multiple times to vote for biz...

my 8 arks will sure make a difference

Thank (You) for the (You) that moon man is too stingy to hand out.

(You) are right biz_classic has great stability, and for this reason I vote for biz_classic.

The faucet however is sleazy.

Blockchain isn't running properly atm, but it's got 19000 confirmations and the transaction is acknowledged as confirmed on ark-affiliated sites

Are you upset that it exists? I don't understand. Why would they not offer a bonus to their own voters?

Address? I'll take a look.

Appreciate it man

AHYrMRMvgXxn1CSzXmnJcVucUwFydb7bnL

Interesting, looks like you did everything right - haven't heard any reports of this before. I'll confirm you manually. Give me a few minutes.

Try sending it again. We'll reimburse the cost to you.

The point that I'm making that you don't seem to understand is the one you made for me. So thank you.

You profit on biz_classic from forging. Forging depends on being top 51. Being top 51 depends on having enough ark in the wallets pointed at you with votes.

Your faucet reward tripling is the incentive that drives the vote from wallets with very few ark held in them at you.

It's a great incentive because marginal expected value, that is the 2/3 of the triple faucet payout is a substantial amount of ark compared with the small bank roll wallets that vote at you.

How much does a vote cost? 1 ark.
How much of a portion of the holdings is that for small wallets. Well it's a small wallet, so a larger portion of wealth than a large wallet.

There is now cost associated with this lottery, lowering expected value by deducting the non-zero cost of voting for you as opposed to investing that 1 ark in other steady gain cryptos like BTC or ETH.

So why is this scummy? Well why is the Powerball in the US scummy?

It prays on the gambling reward of people with small bankrolls paying a very small fee $1 for a Powerball ticket, with negative expected value. Or these powerball gamblers could play the DOW and be rich in 30 years. Or better yet buy BTC or ETH.

What is 1 ark going to give you access to? Well staking with biz_classic and the revenue from your staked ARK, but from the lottery the expected value over a year is maybe 3 ark if you're really good about playing a reasonable number of hours. Compare this with the profit you'd make from that 1 ARK not being an ARK, say being a ETH or LTC.

I could probably improve the making of this argument if I resized the text box or proof read but can't be arsed.

see

Yes I am upset that they triple for voters as opposed to deciding what a reasonable number of votes would be each day and paying the expected value.

It does literally nothing to their outreach efforts of handing out free ark to people who aren't voters, and it changes nothing about their costs from biz_private, with exception to the fact that it stops nuking brains with stupid dopamine cycles as incentive, removes sleaziness, and provides what is almost certainly greater ark returns to voters.

>If you dont buy ark, you can buy btc or eth and get more gains.

Wait until the voting fee drops (Jan-Feb expected).

*rolls each day

Don't mind me, I'm from derpistan

They made the faucet for an ACF bounty. Not using the faucet they made is dumb

>Your faucet reward tripling is the incentive that drives the vote from wallets with very few ark held in them at you.

This doesn't help us nearly as much as you think it does, but sure.

>So why is this scummy? Well why is the Powerball in the US scummy?

The powerball is always negative EV and requires a fee every time. The faucet does not require anything but a one-time fee, so the EV is positive over the long run, and only gets better the longer you stay. We even implemented a minimum of 50 ARK for the triple bonus just to stop small wallets from wasting their money because we got absurd signups from plankton that would just waste a bulk of their ARK voting without understanding what they were doing. Not everything is profit centric - good PR and good community management benefits us long term.

>What is 1 ark going to give you access to? Well staking with biz_classic and the revenue from your staked ARK, but from the lottery the expected value over a year is maybe 3 ark if you're really good about playing a reasonable number of hours. Compare this with the profit you'd make from that 1 ARK not being an ARK, say being a ETH or LTC.

So what exactly is your argument? That ARK is a shitcoin and you should be in ETH or LTC? I mean, I guess - we don't run ARK, we're not shilling biz_classic directly to non-ARK holders 'nor are we claiming that because of biz_classic ARK is better than ETH or LTC - that makes no sense. That anything we do is an attempt to improve our brand? No shit. That we want to be a successful brand and the costs associated with that include having good community engagement, and that having a successful brand includes making longer term plays instead of short-sighted ones? Yes, you got us! We're good at running our delegates!

>It does literally nothing to their outreach efforts of handing out free ark to people who aren't voters, and it changes nothing about their costs from biz_private, with exception to the fact that it stops nuking brains with stupid dopamine cycles as incentive, removes sleaziness, and provides what is almost certainly greater ark returns to voters.

We already went over this. It's good optics for ARK as a whole, because votership isn't a requirement. It changes a lot about our costs from biz_private, because we take a hit on our profit by running the faucet. You're tripping over several different arguments cutting between paying voters more and that ARK is a shitcoin (?), none of which seem to make sense to me, other than you think we're good businessman?

No that's not what I said.

You SPEND 1 ARK to cast your vote, as opposed to your staked ARK which remain yours.

I'm saying 1 ARK turning into 3 ARK in a year will almost certainly be out performed by 1 ARK worth of BTC or ETH. That however would not be an arithmetically sound argument as the 1 ARK cost has other rewards, access to staking. However is someone is already staked with another stable delegate it would be madness to switch.

What is thinking on the margin?

just curious, are you jewish?

How are the optics less favourable if you take the 2/3 EV from the faucet and dump it into wallets as opposed to tripling? There's no difference in terms of quantity of ARK spent doing outreach. There is improvement in no degenerate gambling bullshit.

>You SPEND 1 ARK to cast your vote, as opposed to your staked ARK which remain yours.

Sooo what? If you're spending the 1 ARK, that is implying you are going to invest the time to make it back in the faucet and via staking. You have to calculate your own EV for this based on how much time you're willing to spend and what you gain. The EV is infinitely positive in theory, and if you have the time/energy this is a win for you.

>However if* someone is already staked with another stable delegate it would be madness to switch.

As long as you think your delegate will never drop out (they all have except us), and as long as you never use the faucet and have a small wallet - yeah, you shouldn't switch. There are a lot of ifs that make different delegate options viable for different people. We have a lot of unique propositions other delegates don't, and offer ridiculous support and have an unprecedented infrastructure considering what we do. We know why we get votes, we don't see a problem with expecting voters to do their own math or use a calculator before voting just to use the faucet.

Feel free to subtly continue claiming we're kikes though, as long as you keep it constructive and don't start going in circles I've got no issues debating that we aren't - unless you think making money off the massive amount of work we do alone makes us kikes. However I think the faucet argument is misguided and nonsensical. If the faucet didn't exist, we'd be paying ourselves directly.

Not sure why my trip dropped, oops.

Because biz_private wasn't created to pay biz_classic more? It was created to fund the faucet for community outreach. This argument is absurd. Should we install communism and force every delegate to split their share amongst every voter of each other delegate? What are you even saying now?

Having a faucet serves the dual purpose of both paying engaged ARK voters more and getting NEW PEOPLE engaged in ARK who might not have had any before - this was what Bitcoin faucets were originally created for, and that is their purpose. The 3x bonus is for conversions. You seem to be arguing that you deserve more money and that we shouldn't care about the ARK community as a whole and ONLY about our voters. We want ARK to succeed *and grow* because it's better for both us and people holding it in the long run.

Why the fuck is everything referred to a gimmick these days?

tldr, this guy has a chip on his shoulder over anything related to "gambling" and is too lazy to roll the faucet and is bitching to get the extra ark added to his payout instead of rolling for it lol

>As long as you think your delegate will never drop out (they all have except us), and as long as you never use the faucet and have a small wallet - yeah, you shouldn't switch.
Ok im trying to keep up. So the basis of anons argument is that the 1 ark to switch to biz_classic is too expensive and wont be returned by the faucet?

kek

tripfag i find you to be a bit much.

My argument is that you use the lottery to drive stability and include it in your pitch for why a prospective voter will be better off with biz_classic and get people to pay an ARK to switch and claim it benefits them to do so. In a way very similar to why buying a powerball ticket is a fun experience, but ultimately detrimental to the player.

Further my argument is that the arithmetic is not with you on this, and that the faucet appeals to a base and detrimental instinct that inclines individuals to overlook the arithmetic of gains, and you should dispense with it.

Further still, the expected value of 3 ark per year is crazy generous considering time and effort required to roll frequently enough, and assuming the variance is good enough that number of rolls in. a year will actually result in a payout close to EV.

Why are you bitching at the only delegate besides Jarunik who isn't puppet stringed?

he's lazy and doesnt want to roll for extra rewards, he's begging to have it added to his payout for him

I think that's one of his arguments. But aside from the faucet you also factor in staking, all the other features biz_classic has that others don't, and how often you roll. He's right that a lot of small voters switch over not understanding that they need to actively roll and have a decent sized wallet to make it back via staking + rolls, but he's blaming me for other people's stupidity. Our faucet is profitable enough that we have botters paying the 1 ARK fee to use it with a wallet that has 50 ARK, so it's obviously appealing to a lot of people.

You're blaming us for people's gambling problems. This would be fine if we were a fucking casino, but we offer other things that are direct edges over other delegates, so this is still silly. It is not THE reason to switch, and you are blaming us for people switching ONLY because of this - we can't control human stupidity, sorry. You're claiming we "profit" off of it, but I'm not sure what else you want us to do - give out a static amount? We could do that no problem, but everyone finds the random aspect FUN and it breeds a sense of community. You're thinking too narrowly inside the box - we want to create a community of engaged users, because this benefits everybody who is in ARK. You just care about your own bottom line.

Also, the average faucet roll awards 0.004 ARK, which we increased recently (average rolls / ark dispensed daily). We have over 100 users rolling 10+ times a day. That means you get an average positive EV after just 25 days rolling 10 times a day.

You are drastically off base and fighting a boogeyman that isn't there.

No one is forced to switch, and are you really that jewish that it makes you rage that people pay a 1 time fee of 1 ark to switch?

The faucet was already a joke but i would click sometimes cause most of the time I just wiggled my mouse and it automatically approved me but the new captcha sucks.

All good now thanks lads

You must be as malicious as I think, or you can't fucking read.

YOU CAN STILL RUN A FAUCET.

You delete the rule that voters with >50 ARK in their wallet get triple and just pay your voters the increase in EV.

You still have a faucet that serves the exact same role to everyone in the community and bringing new people to it.

The faucet is still all the positive publicity you want it to be.

The point that you can't understand is you run both biz_classic and biz_private, you are the same economic entity. It doesn't fucking matter where the funds come from. You have a gross, a set of costs, and you have a net, and your activities and that of your voters and the ARK community control these values.

As you said growing the community grows your gross. The only part of the community that sees a change to the tripling of the faucet is your voters. Changing your payout on the faucet does not change your gross, it changes your cost and your net.

You would not run the faucet if you didn't think you were increasing your net by doing so. You claim its for the betterment of everyone and it uses skeez.

Now you start saying shit about kikes?

You're a piece of shit. I knew it about your delegate when I saw your scheme and I know it now about your personality.

I'm pulling my ark from you. I'm done discussing this with you.

bye less dilution for me

the old captcha sucked fuck clicking 50 different stop signs just to roll

Bye. Good luck with your gambling addiction.

Like I said, 99% of the time I would click and just move the cursor and it would approve me. Very rarely would I have to click anything.

...

You're in the minority. People have been bitching to get a legacy captcha for weeks.

>You delete the rule that voters with >50 ARK in their wallet get triple and just pay your voters the increase in EV.
I would honestly rather gamble than get the minuscule amount split between all 2k voters every day

how? i got that annoying captchas all the time same as on Veeky Forums

Do you have to use any Ark to roll?

No.

>See biz classic is over 2k voters
uhh yeah, time to switch.

Number of voters is irrelevant.

It's not the amount of voters, it's the amount of votes. biz_classic has 1,522,452 votes which is better than the 10 people ranked higher than them, it's math dude.

It appears to be run more and more like a jew operation, I'm out next payout.

I love ark. I own 1500 ark. It's my biggest hold besides BTC.

but the Ark faucet is total bullshit. If you understand basic math, there is no reason to use it, because it basically impossible to win an amount of ark that will ever be with anything. Unless you're doing it strictly for entertainment, you're a dumbass.

Is this the first you've ever heard of a crypto faucet or what?

No shit shirlock. You could roll 5 times a day for a year and only have a 1/5 chance of winning a decent amount