This man rises from his throne and asks you to follow him into the depth of hell

This man rises from his throne and asks you to follow him into the depth of hell.

Do you follow him?

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Sure. Compared to the warp, hell is pretty tame

I ain't got nothin' to do this weekend, why not?

No thank you, Hell is scary and I'm comfy at home. Somebody more qualified can handle this.

On the condition that I recieve some power armor, lightning claws/flaming sword, and a jump pack?

I got your back anywhere you wanna go, no exceptions.

>being a bitch ass nigga when Big E is relying on you
how low test can you be?

whats yer fofer

As long as he's messing people up and I don't have to do much, I don't care. Sure I'll walk with you. Just keep the demons away from me.

How much equipment does he give me?
I can easily be bought.

Ask him if he's sure he has the right person.

Dunno. Da Boss saiz we'z goin' ta fight da 'umies, not da spikey gits.

Why not both?

No. All that godlike power and he manages to fuck up so utterly and completely. Failure of that magnitude I can only explain through incompetence. He'll just have to find another patzy to follow is dumbass towards guaranteed failure.

Na.

Well, I was headed there anyway

This. In addition to bein incompetent he's also a total dick and a hypocrite. Sure, Chaos is worse, but who sait you must choose either of them?

Thing is, I'm very average person so I'm not much help to him. Also I'm pretty lazy and don't like Turks to boot.

>Big E
>t*rk
Heresy!

>Nah stay put on your fucking throne and complete the Human Webway project.

Oh and while at it could you please give out clear-cut instructions on how to produce new Primarchs?

The emperor was canonically born in Anatolia. Look at his picture, do you really think it's of a white person?

8k years b.c. There were no t*rks back then.

>the most accurate one here

Yes there were but they we'rent called that back then.

>white skin
>has the chin of ten men
>conquered most of the galaxy before the imperium fell apart under its own weight

Yes, I do think he's white.

Will he save my soul from demons when I die for him? Same answer, No.

Fuck off, we gonna lose anyway.

And they were not in Anatolia

No disrespect, my Emperor, but I feel like I'm woefully underqualified for that sort of thing.

Same.
I mean, I could become a member of the guard or a scribe but even then, I'm not sure a scrawny white boy would be the best solider.

Maybe if he promises to be less of a huge idiot in the future.

1d4chan.org/wiki/Heresy_from_the_Emprah’s_point_of_view

Using this logic you could call Constantine the Great t*rk

He's still a retard and a hypocrite. His plan was nonsensical at the most fundamental level. He should have known that ignorance wasn't a shield against Chaos, and have had the wisdom and circumspection to make allies and incorporate advanced civilizations into the Imperium rather than destroying them. For a being that has been alive since long before the birth of Christ, the Emperor is extremely myopic and rash. He's like 30,000 years old and he still can't come to terms with the fact that neither he nor mankind is particularly special. He's fundamentally the same as a conspiracy theorist that needs to feel like they're the main character in a heroic narrative, or an unfulfilled Muslim who decides to throw their lot in with ISIS because it makes them feel special, or a white nationalist up that needs that same feeling of validation and destiny to the point where they're willing to demonise others to get it.

Which is intentional, of course, because the Emperor and the Imperium are all about mankind's flawed nature.

Well I didnt vote for him

Let me just get my shitting pants first.

>wants equipment
Olianus Pius is looking at you disapprovingly.

He's right, tho. Most of the people just started to call themselves turks once they took over. Just as they did call themselves romans before.
It's not as if conquerers exterminate populations and then summon millions of their own magically...

... okay I'll concede that.

He's around 48k years old in 40k.

And mankind is somewhat special in that they managed a comeback after chaos fucked them over once.

Ollanius Pius didn't know shit about bargaining.

But that's kind of like saying ants are better than beetles (if you're referencing Eldar).

There are just... swarms of people in comparison to any other race, almost ever. The Eldar swarmed, too, but their birthrate declined heavily and when Slaanesh happened they physically couldn't recover their numbers.

Actually the Emperor in the Battle of the Webway addresses these claims and says he told people all the time that the warp is evil and that daemons are like otherworldly creatures but he just didn't call them gods because it would be redundant.

He's also allied with plenty of advanced societies, hence how the forgeworlds/knight world Dark Age colonies/own terran scientists came into being. Its not his fault some advanced but prideful human societies decide to resist.

I'd be honored to, FOR TERRA!!!

>Psychic
>Mutant
>Thinks he's too shiny for good ol regular reincarnation
>Not a good family man
He isn't pure, he isn't vigilant, and I bet he doesn't even behave.

0/10 of true faitful of humanity would follow

Sorry, but no chance. Best of luck doing whatever you want to do there.
Would you like to use my golden throne before you go, though? It's a long way down.

Yes.

No questions, no hesitation.

IIRC the Emperor restricted all knowledge of Chaos. None of the Primarchs had any clue what they were dealing with when it came to daemons and the like, so either the Master of Mankind is a huge continuity hiccup or he is lying there.

Also, Emps basically destroyed any civilization that refused to adjust their shit to suit the Mechanicus' retarded belief system. Or any civilization that wasn't human. Both of which are stupid things to do.

...

Maybe the Emperor only restricted knowledge of Chaos after he became the Emperor? Like, telling people of Chaos always ended up dicking them over so he played it "safe" by keeping Chaos a secret?

As for destroying civilizations... if they don't ally with the Mechanicus, they'll either a) create deadly and dangerous AI or b) come to blows with the very devout Mechanicus, who basically run the universe tech-wise. Emps didn't want to piss off the toaster-fuckers because he needed them, whats a minor civilization here or there compared to that?

Xenophobia... well, he probably wanted as little margin for error as possible in his "plan". Sentient aliens could throw huge wrenches in there at any point simply because of their unpredictability.

>he still can't come to terms with the fact that neither he nor mankind is particularly special
He's one of the most powerful beings in the entire universe, alongside chaos gods. And he's also human and grew alongside it. And he values humanity, because he sees himself in it.

>values humanity because he sees himself in it

I just realized how fucking self-absorbed this prick is. That's worse than the damn Eldar!

No. GOD no.

This is a man who has lived for tens of thousands of years and managed to learn fucking nothing in that time.

Sure, he has dabbled in genetics and other sciences. But he has no idea how to run a government beyond iron-fisted authoritarianism, doesn't understand how to motivate, drive, or guide people, and honestly doesn't seem all that competent a military commander either.

The Emperor doesn't display a head for tactics, just brute force. His idea of a master plan to to invent bigger, better brutes who can brute force more effectively.

He is a violent, bumbling manchild who fights enemies that thrive in secrecy WITH SECRECY and wastes every opportunity or talent he has ever had. He is so convinced of his own superiority that he lets his failures creep up on him in plain view until they destroy him.

I wouldn't follow him in a game of dodgeball, much less a real fight of any kind.

-- and that burn just put him back down on the Throne.
Shit, that fucked him up worse than Horus.

Literally /ourguy/

>Maybe the Emperor only restricted knowledge of Chaos after he became the Emperor?

Doesn't matter when or why he did it. It was still a demonstrably poor idea.

>Emps didn't want to piss off the toaster-fuckers because he needed them, whats a minor civilization here or there compared to that?

The Emperor should have understood that tying your science up with a regressive cult is a bad idea in the long run. It's also pretty much the stupidest shit ever to snub and destroy advancing societies to satisfy said cult. A small group of actual scientists without retarded Mechanicus doctrine are worth more than the entire AdMech.

Also, those minor civilizations are billions of people. Emps is a poor saviour of mankind if he's willing to just annihilate them.

>Xenophobia... well, he probably wanted as little margin for error as possible in his "plan".

We already know why he wanted to exterminate aliens. He thought mankind was perfect, hence the comparison to loony conspiracy theorists that need a narrative where they're special to cope with the fact that they're not special. In practice the Imperium's policy on xenos is a waste of resources.

I don't understand why people cannot accept the underlying theme of 40K and feel the need to insist that the Emperor was an infallible good guy. The point of the Emperor is that he epitomised everything good and bad in mankind, and the point of 40K is that the darker angels of our nature - paranoia, fear of the other, greed, hubris - have more sway over us than our better aspects. 40K is about what happens when humans give in to their worst instincts and cripple themselves as a result.

The emperor was convinced that people couldn't worship Chaos if they didn't know it existed, which completely ignores the fact that Chaos is an active party that can seek people out instead of waiting to be summoned. So when Chaos sought to actively corrupt his primarchs, they were fish in a barrel because they had no idea what was happening or that there even was a risk until it was too late. He believed that the best solution to a complicated problem was total ignorance, and this lead directly to his death.

The Emperor fucked over the entire Imperium because he bent the knee to the AdMech. It was expedient to do so, but expediency shouldn't have mattered. He is immortal. It doesn't MATTER if it takes 200 years to take Mars. If he can't take the planet next door, how does he expect to take the galaxy?
Hell, he couldn't even promise to follow their rules and then slowly co-opt them. Which is fucking embarrassing, because he had 10,000 years to wrest control of them AND host of psychic powers, but he just left the AdMech alone, costing him countless worlds and beneficial technological development because he made a promise one time to save himself some trouble and never thought about the long term consequences. This doomed the Imperium before it began, because the tech stagnation caused the Admech to split (costing humanity very dearly during the heresy) and has prevented the Imperium from developing the tools it needs to make threats like Chaos and Orks completely irrelevant.

The Xenophobia is just Emps being incredibly butthurt that the rest of the alien races in the galaxy didn't politely respect the obsolete borders of a massive civilization that no longer existed.

Power =/= meaning.

The Emperor is just another guy who couldn't handle the idea that there's no destiny or purpose set aside for us, and decided to soothe this with a genocidal hubris that eventually doomed him and humanity along with him.

Yeah, you're right. He thinks mankind is special and perfect because he thinks he is special and perfect, and humans are the things he identifies with. What you are describing is something we call egomania.

Hey, he had a laser gun at least. We don't even have a flashlight

>The Xenophobia is just Emps being incredibly butthurt that the rest of the alien races in the galaxy didn't politely respect the obsolete borders of a massive civilization that no longer existed.

The funny thing is, many of them did. The Great Crusade encountered loads of cases where humans coexisted with aliens. The Emperor had them purged because allowing them to live would prove him wrong, and he was too much of an insane narcissist to let that stand.

Of course I follow him! I mean come on! A giant, perfect in every way, golden duded, who's mere presence is powerful enough to have me weep with bliss, ask me to follow him? I'd gladly do it, especially in our times, the guy offers you to work for the good of Mankind, not just your own personal advancement.

>he has no idea how to run a government beyond iron-fisted authoritarianism
But that's the most effective form of government in a critical situation such as being surrounded by bloodthirsty xenos and demonic abominations.
>doesn't understand how to motivate, drive, or guide people
Most of the Imperium were literally willing to die for him
>honestly doesn't seem all that competent a military commander either.
He was a scientist not a soldier and even then, he was pretty fucking competent.
>doesn't display a head for tactics, just brute force
When you can wipe armies with your mind, a good show of successful brute force does more for the moral than being tacticool about it, especially when a man clad in gold armor shining with golden light leads the charge.
>His idea of a master plan to to invent bigger, better brutes who can brute force more effectively.
The plan was a huge success
>He is a violent, bumbling manchild who fights enemies that thrive in secrecy WITH SECRECY
It would've worked if not for some primarchs, who were the actual manchildren because of their unfortuante upbringings. Reminder that Horus was raised by the Emperor and came out the best primarch, without autism or being a manchild. The only reason Heresy happened was because of Lorgar's shitty parents and his complete inability to listen to the eldest, wisest and most powerful fucking human being in the galaxy, multiple times.
>He is so convinced of his own superiority
He's convinced in humanity's ability to not be retarded for a short (relatively) amount of time. Yes, he was wrong, because he's still a human.

No that user, but the thing is, Empy is objectively right. He doesn't even for it for personnal glory. He took power to mead us because he is legitimately, objectively, the most qualified dude to lead us, and the only guy that is ast the same time aware of the threat that is above Mankind (becoming a psychic race enslaved to chaos) and that has a solution for it.

It's not even up for debate. Yes he will stop at nothing to do this, yes destroying worlds and genociding planets and entire species is something he calls collateral damage, but in this case? The end most definitely justify the means.

Plus, Empy is super motivating when you look at him like pic related.

>le no destiny and purpose meme
We create those things

Your argument relies on vindication by success, but he failed. By his own actions he demonstrated that he was not qualified to lead because he constantly made mistakes that even a decently intelligent mortal human would be able to avoid, never mind a 48k year old psychic superman.

> But that's the most effective form of government in a critical situation such as being surrounded by bloodthirsty xenos and demonic abominations.
Iron-fisted authoritarian regimes are not anywhere near as effective as people seem to think. They consistently waste vast amounts of resources on internal power struggles and corruption.

>but he failed.
But he didn't? Yeah, it's not pretty and humanity is about to get fucked again, but they are still alive and were alive for 10k years after Emps got wounded.
>he demonstrated that he was not qualified to lead because he constantly made mistakes that even a decently intelligent mortal human would be able to avoid
He did the best he could, which is far beyond anyone else. Most human civilisations weren't even trying to reunite with each other. They would've been destroyed sooner or later by xenos.

>and feel the need to insist that the Emperor was an infallible good guy

Oh no no no, I fucking hate the Emperor. I was playing devil's advocate, I never said the guy was smart. He's a dickhead in just about every depiction, and a horrible father on top of everything you pointed out. I've always thought Malcador should just have straight up usurped him, told him to sit the fuck down and let somebody else take the reins.

I'm pretty sure he literally did not have the tech or army CAPABLE of taking Mars. That's why he bent the knee, not because he just thought it was easier. And he really, really needed them whole anyways - just look at tech in the 41st millenium compared to the 31st. It's literally gone BACKWARDS, none of the races have made decent improvements anywhere in 10,000 years. The Emperor needed the tech-priests of Mars because they were the only left in the galaxy who could continue improving humanity science-wise.
Then the cult part of the Mechanicus went fucking crazy and they're barely holding on to the tech level they still have, but that's beside the point.

>internal power struggles and corruption
>one guy in charge of everything

>He failed

He didn't though. The others failed him. You can't blame him for not predicting every single possible issue that could come along the way and that his generams would bhave like autist children (accroding to BL anyway) and betray him.

For all its flaws, Master of Mankind adresses exactly that. The Emperor shows a vision of a cliff to one of his most trusted Custodes, and the top of it is in clouds.
He says "The top is the goal, now climb."

Custode starts climbing, after a few meters, a rock that seemed solid doesn't hold up and he falls back down.

Each rock, each crevice to use to climb is a possibility that may or may not work. He knows his goal, and he knows how to get to it, but he can't predict accurately every step along the way.

> but they are still alive and were alive for 10k years after Emps got wounded.

Numerous human civilizations had survived Old Night without the Emperor. The Emperor made things significantly worse by creating a massive, horrifically oppressive regime that wastes time, lives, worlds, and resources on a level beyond any society seen in history. Thanks to the Emperor, humanity is united in a huge, stagnating corpse.

They were no turks here, but people there were persians who basically were pre-islamic arabs.
People here were conquered by turks and so were part of their empire and they adopted their culture with time.
Turks nowadays are descendants of the two, with varying degree of each.

> internal power struggles and corruption
> one guy in charge of everything
Take a look at how dictatorships actually work. Sure, you have a single, powerful dictator at the top. But no man rules alone, the dictator can't and doesn't do everything himself. He has subordinates who are constantly jockeying for power, sabotaging each other, and making a mess of things in an attempt to earn the favor of the guy on top and hinder their rivals. Look at the internal conflicts that plagued the Nazis. Hitler was at the top the whole time, but go down a level or two and you see a teeming mass of territorial squabbling as various underlings tried to establish and protect their own power bases within the Nazi hierarchy.

The image of a dictatorship as a unified whole is an illusion.

>nids
>necron awakening
>expanding eye
>orks
Yeah, all those separated colonies and confederacies would totally survive that.
No.

>but go down a level or two and you see a teeming mass of territorial squabbling as various underlings tried to establish and protect their own power bases within the Nazi hierarchy.
This is also due to the sycophantic, horribly inefficient way Hitler ran the National Socialist government, playing favorites and purposefully playing department heads against each other to determine his favorite and keep them vying for status. They acted that way because those who were best at that behavior are the ones who survived and gained prominence.

Humanity is united in a huge stagnating corpse because of Chaos.
If not for the Emperor, Humanity would have been persecuted by Xenos, slaves to Chaos, or outright destroyed as a species.

> The others failed him.

Yes, it's always someone else's fault.

Funny how people are trying to say that the Imperium was a good idea because it concentrated power in the hands of one person and all you needed was for that one person to be capable, but when it all comes crashing down they blame everyone but the person at the top.

Those separate nations at least had the ability to advance technologically. In the intervening 10k years, they could have developed much further than the Imperium did.

Fighting an enemy like the Tyranids or the Orks with numbers is foolish. Those species have an inbuilt biological advantage in a war of attrition. You're not going to beat them with quantity, you need quality. You need technological superiority, which the Imperium does not have and can never attain.

This.
Emperor should've listened to the psyker message about Horus.
Emperor should've seen Horus coming.
Emperor shouldn't have gotten fucked up fighting Horus.
Emperor should have LEFT BETTER FUCKING INSTRUCTIONS

You can't be that stupid.

Do you blame Obama for reforms he couldn't pass because Republicans blocked him?

As I said above, he was genuinely, objectively right. And when the fate of the whole damn race is at hand, the end justify the means. Might not have been pleasant, but between that and having your souls used as eternal cocksleeves for Chaos, the choice is pretty easy, especially when The Emperor doesn't even take power to have power, he does it because it is needed. He could have taken power looooong nefore he did, but didn't because he believed Mankind needed to evolve on it's own. He inly stepped in when there was no other choice, other than slow annihilation.

>In the intervening 10k years, they could have developed much further than the Imperium did
Aaaaaaaand Iron Men again.

You forgot
>Emperor should've listened to Eldrad's warning

You do realise that the factions destroyed by Mankind were those that couldn't be saved or rejected the Imperium right?

When your level of technology is too Chaptic or Xenos reliant, at some point it WILL fuck you up, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. And if the Imperium could easily crush them, they wouldn't survive for shit in front of Nids, Necrons, or even orks.

It's not specific to Hitler, it exists in pretty much all dictatorships. That's because dictators tend to run their governments in sycophantic and horribly inefficient ways. Playing favorites and pitting department heads against each other? That's standard practice in dictatorships.

Incidentally, it is also explicitly what the Emperor did when creating the Imperium. He purposefully created and fostered the rivalries among the Primarchs because he believed that it would somehow make the Imperium better. Turns out it helped tear the Imperium apart. The Emperor was totally unqualified to govern humanity because he had failed to learn anything from seeing humanity's previous failures. A decently intelligent mortal human could have seen that he was making a mistake. But he wasn't even as smart as that.

The Necrontyr and Eldar ruled galaxy for millions of years using automated servants. They did not rebel. They continued to serve until both Empires destroyed themselves via war or god spawning.

So why are the only the human AI is prone to forming Ironmen?

Fuck yeah!!!

>So why are the only the human AI is prone to forming Ironmen?

Obama isn't the fucking God Emperor of Man. The United States isn't a dictatorship, the Imperium is. You can blame people other than Obama because Obama wasn't some all-powerful tyrant. There was also a Congress and a Supreme Court that were not subordinate to him, and they could also screw up.

The Imperium had no such system. All power rested with the Emperor, and thus all responsibility rests with the Emperor.

But wot duz da boss say 'bout da spikey 'umie gitz?

My head was spinning when I wrote that but you understand what I am saying.

>Do you follow him?

Only if i can be a marine.

A better question is how come the Tau haven't had an issue with AI with the amount of advanced drones and machines they use?