/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>How would you improve your least favorite gameline? (other than removing it)
Make Heroes playable.

Or at least a real mechanical threat.

I can understand that. I like that its more open ended but I can see how that would kill a lot of the flavor for people

>Did I over do the limits if visiscitude?
Barely. It can be used to let body parts function after being severed so it kind of isn't a huge stretch to apply it to internal organs.

Speaking of tzimisce, has anybody ever actually had a beautiful one in their games? The ones I run into are always freaks.

Is there anything special for Ananasi running in Vampire society to know about?

Where can I find some info about the Bale Hounds and the Maeljin?

>I'd make the relationship between beasts and their horrors more complex rather just going "this is your soul now" and give the horror the ability to rove the material world when the beast does things to anger or wound it.
The main problem that crops up with this is it makes Beast step on Geist's toes even more than it already does.

I'd give Beast a strong central antagonist to oppose, probably from the Anima Mundi. As the most primitive part of the Temenos that borders the Anima Mundi I think it would make sense if they existed as a sort of immune response to keep humanity separate from the world. Heroes would exist as a way to keep Beasts from turning on humanity as a whole.

The 1st edition Werewolf book, Blasphemies has an entire chapter on them. They also get talked about a little bit in Inferno.

Which game is the best from a purely mechanical standpoint?

Most of the 2e (Not Beast) games have mechanics that match there themes quite well.

Asking again, any VtR 2e games recruiting or is anyone interested in joining me to put one together?

2e Werewolf seems to hold together the best, with the least WTFery.

Demon is great, but there are some mechanics that require extra books to even make sense.
I've heard Mage 2e has some issues with it being hard to tell wtf a spell does.
Vampire is vampire, and has some abilities that evidently just work because they say so, leading to bad times.

But werewolf 2e made woof much better, gave everyone a place, and gave them some awesome new antagonists as well.

I'd make Mage weirder, harder to do stuff in it, and generally tone down its power level by making it less free-form.

i.e. more specific effects and more ways for the spells to be countered or denied. Exalted letting you shut down magical or shaping effects with willpower or counter-Charms is a good start.

But in general I find Mage and its themes kind of boring. I really don't like super open ended 'sandboxy' games. I prefer ones built around a very strong, overt theme, like Changeling, Werewolf and Vampire are.

>I prefer ones built around a very strong, overt theme, like Changeling, Werewolf and Vampire

Can't help but agree. I mean, Mage is okay, it's not "ermagerd so bad" or anything, but I just find it... too vague, I guess.

>How would you improve your least favorite gameline? (other than removing it)

Changeling. I wouldn't make "undoing" permanent. Have a way to restore the fae. I'd limit the idiotic "science = banality" angle to making certain people banal, not the entire field of scientific thought and enquiry. Being high-fived to death by a Technocrat is fucking stupid, especially when the Technocrats dare to dream of science and worlds unseen. Finally give the game a fucking point, whether that's accepting that childhood must end or holding onto childhood innocence as long as you can.

Maybe if forbidden lore and madness were a big part of the game? instead of just Hubris. It relies way too much on the ST fiat to make that proverbial Sword of Damocles drop down on the aspirant Mage's head if he's being a cheeky dumb ass.

So you would make the antagonistic force against the fae be blatant, uncaring nihilism? and you know, actual banality?

I think it should tie a lot harder into the oppressive feeling of everyone working a crap job and being ground down by the system we've all subscribed to, keeping us from dreaming and falling deeper into cheap, consumerist outlets for entertainment. i.e. schlock movies, blockbusters, etc.

Basically, shit like video game franchises, movie franchises, and so on, pushing out artists and dreamers for the sake of a safe return investment that people will eat up anyway even if its trash; see: the Transformers movies.

Hubris and power aren't the sole themes of Mage. You would know this if you picked up a fucking book.

Yeah, exactly.

The fluff itself is inconsistent with this. On one page it states that science is banal, and the rules themselves make a science lab fucking toxic to be in, but in the backstory chapter it says that the Apollo moon landing got the common man dreaming so hard that it reconnected the Trods with Arcadia. So which is it? Science is banal, or science goads us to dream higher and reach further?

I favour the latter. Especially when you look at how mind-melting things get at a subatomic level, how insane Quantum Physics can be and the kinds of amazing inventions and developments made by the brightest minds on the planet.

Is a self-made Caitiff possible? Like, a vampire who doesn't know his clan because when he was embraced his sire didn't think to get rid of the curious cans labeled "White Phosphorus" on his bandolier.

Caitiff clan bloodline rules can get very loose, what you're describing is not even far-fetched for them. I'd probably punch someone for showing up to a serious roleplay event with it, but you can literally just be a caitiff of spontaneous creation who doesn't have any connection to any clan or bloodline.

I thought the whole deal with Caitiff was that they didn't know their bloodline at all. Admittedly, there's some clans where that's just not possible like the Nosferatu, but.

So how do Werewolves actually operate?
I've never really played a Forsaken game, and every time I've interacted with them as a player it's been us approaching them practically subserviently.

I get that they're supposed to hunt, but what does that entail?
Taking on something strong? Killing it? Do they sometimes just pick fights?

Also how do they usually fight? Are most just willing to transform and let Lunacy deal with the gruntwork of covering up their operations?
Do the use firearms as well as melee weapons? Are their claws usually enough?

What kind of Spirits are they usually happy to tolerate?
I get that the pure let some Spirits run wild so long as they can control them, but what about the Forsaken? Is that a part of the "clan" stuff?

>I'd make Mage weirder, harder to do stuff in it, and generally tone down its power level by making it less free-form

I spotted the vampfaggot

Does that mean that the clan curse is not transmitted by blood, but rather forced upon one? Because would caitiff in that case not still know their clan curse and such?

>How would you improve your least favorite gameline?

I would fire David hill.

I thought that's part of it. Mechanically, the Caitiff blood curse is that they have to pay dotsx7 for all disciplines. It doesn't matter which clan sired them, that's all they get.

Sorry for the delayed response; It should be again, up to the individuals. Some vampires may find them useful allies or dare I say, friends, and others may abhor them for being different. It varies a lot. Hell, some may not even be able to tell that Ananasi aren't vampires without scrutiny.

There are many supported kinds of backstory as usual. In VtM, you can decide on a character by character basis where any Caitiff come from, and they can just show up out of nowhere having multiple naturally occurring bloodline-specific disciplines. The limit of how stupid it can get is "ask your ST", ie WW don't even care.

>How would you improve your least favorite gameline?

There's one surefire way to improve *all* WW games. Make DaveB the Creative Director, and have Rich "spend more time with his family."

Also, fire that douche Brucato and give M20 to someone with some writing skills and who understands workable ttprg mechanics.

I meant more like the Prince of a city. Would they have to hide or would they be able to consider themselves part of the domain openly, if unable to be upwardly mobile at all?

They could likely consider themselves part of the domain openly. Ananasi could very well even find themselves entrenched in vampire politics or considered a useful asset of the prince. Though, I imagine there are certainly anti-ananasi princes out there, it's more likely that most would enjoy having such an asset rather than warring with them.

>I get that they're supposed to hunt, but what does that entail?
>Taking on something strong? Killing it? Do they sometimes just pick fights?
It's a challenge to overcome/goal t achieve for the most part. It often ends in fighting, but it doesn't have to.

>Also how do they usually fight? Are most just willing to transform and let Lunacy deal with the gruntwork of covering up their operations?
It depends on what they're doing and to a lesser extent what Auspice they are. Irakkas usually prefer a quieter, more precise kill.

>Do the use firearms as well as melee weapons? Are their claws usually enough?
Yes to all.

>What kind of Spirits are they usually happy to tolerate?
It depends on their territory and what they're trying to achieve. Too many of any kind of spirit can cause problems, but most Forsaken aren't going to be fans of powerful negative emotions or disease.

>I get that the pure let some Spirits run wild so long as they can control them, but what about the Forsaken? Is that a part of the "clan" stuff?
It's less that the Pure are more willing to let spirits run wild and more that they're more willing to bend over backwards to gain the aid of stronger spirits.

I'd support making creative thaumaturgy take a while to cast so in the heat of the moment you have to rely on Rotes.

Yeah, that seems more reasonable

>How would you improve your least favorite gameline? (other than removing it)
Get rid of the metaplot and the captain planet vibe
have werewolves on all points of the spectrum be right (and wrong)
elaborate on wyrm stench on vampires, either they're wyrm or not, werewolves against the wyrm should kill them if they are

No, it can even happen with them. In fact, no-one is as likely to bail on a neonate as a Nosferatu whose childe fails to turn ugly in a timely fashion.

The fluff is loose on the rules for this. Sometimes, it seems as if Caitiff are formed by some strange mutation of the blood. Sometimes it's a case of the blood running too thin. Sometimes it seems as if socialising, training in Clan disciplines and re-drinking the blood of a specific Clan is what "locks in" a Clan or Bloodline for a neonate, which implies it's as much about self-identity as anything external. Certainly, the book "Outcasts" states that Caitiff can be "Adopted" by a Clan if they drink blood from them and hang around with them. This is how the Panders operate as a bloodline with "Clan Disciplines" - they've shared each other's blood to the point where they've homogenised.

If they're good enough, you won't know they're tzimisce when they're in the beauriful form. Divinely beautiful vampires exist in more clans than edgy monsters.

>dubs of truth

I would also like to see Phil Brucatto very publicly fired. He mutilated M20 beyond function.

*sotto voce* they already did the last two, little man.

But Satyros is God. Do not besmirch his name. M20 is the pinnacle of RPG writing and development.

>I get that they're supposed to hunt, but what does that entail?
Performing the rite of the sacred hunt which designates a target or goal, following through with that.
>Taking on something strong? Killing it? Do they sometimes just pick fights?
They can, but hunts are usually after something big, or at least something that's bothering them. Not just picking a fight with some rando humie when the flamebeast has escaped. If Mafia Don has been edging in on their territory and threatening human packmates, he's probably going to be a target too.

>Also how do they usually fight? Are most just willing to transform and let Lunacy deal with the gruntwork of covering up their operations?
Some packs might do it, some might be sneakier, only hunt at night. If you mainly hunt things in the shadow Lunacy is not a problem.
>Do the use firearms as well as melee weapons?
Yes
>Are their claws usually enough?
Teeth, and yes. Bite usually does more damage.

>What kind of Spirits are they usually happy to tolerate?
Normal ones. You can't kill all the spirits, it would be vastly easier to kill all the humans. Most spirits work in a sort of balance that gets upset every once and awhile before finding its way back to harmony. More wise werewolves would hunt after twisted magath or wounded spirits. Unwise ones might hunt any spirit that seems like trouble, which leads to more trouble down the line.
>I get that the pure let some Spirits run wild so long as they can control them, but what about the Forsaken?
Depends on the pure and the forsaken and the spirit. There are Forsaken who make deals with claimed, Pure who hunt them down and spirits that serve werewolves of both.
> Is that a part of the "clan" stuff?
What do you mean?

>Black Spirals
>ever 'right'

lol we get it you're edgy and love Forsaken why don't you go play that instead??

I think that's actually a boon to the Tzimisce in question.

If I used a Shielding Forces spell to make myself immune to kinetic energy it should allow me to jump off of a building without harm right?

Just make Beasts fucking monsters none of this weird otherkin with Stands crap. All the other games are about turning into a monster, just make it Beast: The Misc, and make it rules for playing as cryptids and weird out-of-context monsters of all types both of human origin and non-human origin.

Use Forces to shield against gravity if you want to jump off a building.

Jaysus, son, if that's the fucking pinnacle I'd hate to see how bad it gets.

The part that annoys me is how people go on about the "Captain Planet Vibe". I must have missed the episode where Linka gets Moliated, pulled into the sewer by a Freakfoot, hung on the wall like a Russian skin-tapestry and had eggs laid in her sternum.

The environment is fucking everything. Everything. We don't have a Planet B to scuttle off to if this one goes toxic on us. The game is literally urging you to give a shit about that, but I guess some folks are just too stupid, too selfish or too juvenile to even consider it. Either way, friendly reminder that you need to be 18+ to post.

It'd be funnier if you could store up the Kinetic energy and then release it later. Sending anything off at ballistic speeds is going to fucking hurt whatever you aim it at.

Why use Forces to jump from high places when you could use it to one-shot Kindred?

If you're immune to kinetic energy, how did you jump off the building?

With Patterning, sure.

Shush, we don't want to get the vampfags angry again. They still refuse to acknowledge that a single mage is far stronger than a single kindred.

Friendly reminder: trolling is not permitted.

Kindred may not even appear in your game. It's not the Crossovers of Darkness, and even when Elricsson releases One World of Darkness, it's entirely up to individual ST's what edition they want to run. Just as it always was.

Calm down, ma'am

Same way Matter can pull steel like taffy. "Fuck logic I'm a wizard"

Who made you the authority around here?

WoD is a game created by westerners, for westerners, primarily as its main audience, with a huge emphasis on the West. The west has also been dominated by Christianity and a big undercurrent of their dogma is that the world was made for man by God to do with as he pleases. So its not surprising that centuries of that attitude linger heavily. Throw in some good old fashion American and UK/Aussie contrarianism, the 'Fuck you, Got Mine' mentality of the past few generations, and in general the target audience hating the idea of being told what to do, contrasted with some of the earlier era Green Peace psychophants and their demagoguery, and you can see why everyone has such a negative attitude about it even if its the fucking truth.

What sanctimonious, self-righteous crap.

Werewolf wasn't some simple call to to care about the environment, it was little more than a de facto justification for eco-terrorism.

My understanding of One WoD is that they want to make the events and overarching 'metaplot' work together across all gamelines instead of having a bunch of writers in separate rooms doing whatever they want ignorant of what is going on in their sister games.

>t. chinkaboo cuck who thinks Beijing is just fine

I did. Someone had to take charge. build yourself a lovely bridge and get over it. You're only sore because you're potentially facing a ban for not obeying global rules. Stay on topic and you'll be fine. Mods exist, and so does the report button. There's literally nothing you can do to stop me, and I'm going nowhere.

Quintessence DOES melt steel beams. In all seriousness, Magick is the focusing of Will and Desire, so it's a matter of desiring the exact outcome and having the focus to will that, and only that, into happening. There's a reason they recommend starting builds have high Willpower....

Which is a very bad decision. One big metaplot is just not going to work.

>"Fuck logic I'm a wizard"

"Fuck scientific rule, I'm a wizard"

FIFY.

What you consider "logic" is nothing but a manifestation of the Lie. Magic reveals the Truth.

Calm down, ma'am. Your salt levels are a tad bit too high.

If we have to share the same game world I would like that kind of coherency across the entire board. Either way they aren't going back to isolated game lines who just happen to share a distressingly similar world (but its totally not the same! except when it is..)

You're quite welcome to not play it. No-one is forcing you.

I thought it was more hierarchical than before? So instead of delegating individual lines with Rich Thomas ignoring everything behind his mountain of cocaine, Elricsson dictates literally everything to everyone below him?

Pretty much that. Which could be good or bad. I'd take a strong hand behind the wheel by someone who actually cares deeply about the gamelines than someone who clearly doesn't.

Vampires have never been on an equal standing with Mages. I don't think anyone here is going to disagree with that assessment. It's common sense. Doesn't mean you can't have fun!

That's where the game can encourage people to think about it, by viewing the world "as through a mirror darkly."

There are deeper issues underlying all the White Wolf games, undercurrents of philosophy that seem lost on less... gifted individuals.

I think we have a new Aspel.

The fix for Mage is playing Unknown Armies.

I've been working on trying to figure out the undercurrents of Vampire. I feel like it's SOMETHING, and I'm really damn close, but I just don't get it. Like, maybe abuse or something, but no. Dropping morals to live another day? Maybe highschool?

Not that long ago we had the reactors in Japan go up, not out of fault equipment or bad maintenance, but sheer brazen arrogance that they would not hit the release valve because 'never gonna let nuclear device go off on muh nipponese soil'.

I'd say its very relevant today.

A backseat mod is hardly being a new Aspel.

Requiem I mean, not Masquerade

I'd say trust and betrayal but that's kind of a thing across all the lines and comes expected with Vampire especially.

I agree with this. Ma'am seems to think reporting Anons who disagree with her will send them away

No-one cares what you think.
It's about alienation and morality, as well as living with an addiction. Trying to stay connected with things that are important to you instead of spiralling down further and further, the lies you tell yourself to justify shitting on and using those around you, struggling with the guilt and trying to find ways to offset the damage you do. Vampires are functional addicts, trying their best to keep control when the monkey on their back keeps getting stronger.

>No-one cares what you think

Do you think anyone cares what you think? You need to take your medication, ma'am.

Having a Report Button and never using it is like having Archmage spheres and never using them. What's the point in them being there if you don't have a crack and destroy someone's day? ;-D

Captain Planet with rape is still Captain Planet, and if you think adding sex and gore makes it somehow more mature you're the one who needs to wait a few years before he's allowed to post.

Ma'am is the new Aspel

>Not playing Apocalypse for supplements like Freak Legion
Why even use the world of darkness system at all then?

>a children's show with rape is still a children's show

Your logic is flawless, user.

We get it, you don't like the game. There's no need to keep harping on about it. At this point it's just attention seeking.

We got ourselves a new Aspel?

Who is Ma'am

Instead of arguing about magefaggery, why don't we all take a look at the 'totally not ripping off WoD in every way, except with MORE XTREME 90's ACTION' dumpster fire of Vampire: Undeath.

uploadmb.com/dw.php?id=1485573911

LOOK! LOOK AND LAUGH!

I'd believe it. Hell the v20 lore if the clans book has a caitiff who diablerises his sire as he's being embraced so honestly anything is possible

>The game is literally urging you to give a shit about that, but I guess some folks are just too stupid, too selfish or too juvenile to even consider it. Either way, friendly reminder that you need to be 18+ to post.

I always though that the game set the "environment" or the "planet" as the thing to save as a universally understood "good goal" to push the analogy that just because you have a good goal that doesn't exclude you from being an asshole. That the real enemy in Apocalypse are the other tribe of assholes you gotta organize, work with or purge to get their shit together and then save the world.