/dcg/ Dropzone/Dropfleet Commander General

/dcg/ Dropzone/Dropfleet Commander General

NOTHING IS HAPPENING edition

Last Thread:
>Hawk Wargames website, with links to models, rules, and forums
hawkwargames.com/

>DZC rules, units, errata, etc
mediafire.com/folder/3e69ovwksc27r/DZC#3e69ovwksc27r

>DZC Phase 2 Rules and Scenarios
mediafire.com/file/9o0mghzvf3gsnzg/Phase2-rulesScenarios.pdf
>DZC Phase 2 Units
mediafire.com/download/hjxrk1f2i0fv283/Phase2_units.pdf
>DZC Phase 2 Fluff
mediafire.com/download/novaydro2mxo074/Phase2-fluff.pdf

>Dropbox of rulebook pictures
dropbox.com/sh/ci1w3beqaeu5nca/AADismn1gX0dYWShk45csdRca?dl=0

>free DZC army builders
dzc-ffor.com/
solomonder.com/scoldzap/

>DFC Rules and Scenarios
mediafire.com/file/li17bl14bute5ee/DFC_RulesScenarios.pdf
>DFC Units
mediafire.com/file/oa35v9pq7gfe1fs/DFC_Units.pdf
>DFC Fluff
mediafire.com/file/oysd2f64iytbd69/DFC_Fluff.pdf

>free DFC fleet builder
dflist.com/

>Where to order DFC from
waylandgames.co.uk/3951-dropfleet-commander
miniaturemarket.com/table-top-miniatures/dropfleet-commander.html
thewarstore.com/dropfleet-commander-preorder.html

>DFC Kickstarter, lots of useful information to drudge through
kickstarter.com/projects/hawkwargames/dropfleet-commander

Reminder to ignore bait, unless it is masterfully crafted.

Note: There's currently a non-official fan DFC and DZC unit design contest going on at Hawk's forums. Check it out if you have an account.
hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9444
hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=9445

Topic of the Thread: Does any one particular weapon system stand out to you as unbalanced or bad?

Other urls found in this thread:

anydice.com/program/a88c
anydice.com/program/a8b1
twitter.com/AnonBabble

This isn't a direct response to the prompt, but I find it funny when PHR Wasp Drones do work. The 3+ lock all the way down to light cruisers is nice for fishing a crit or two in close combat from ships that mostly throw fistfuls of 5+ dice.

It seems like math wise the particle weapons will always be outperformed by standard weapons. The only exceptions is something with reinforced 3+ or shields. Since most ships don't have those it seems like they are never worth taking.

The only good one is the particle triad on teh battleship.

>tfw a Diamond is likely to outright delete a light cruiser and possibly a cruiser every single firing, excellent chance to cripple a heavy cruiser, and most likely able to cripple a battlecruiser if its crippling roll is unlucky
>tfw no other battleship in the game comes close to this power.

A minos in scan distance with its torpedos could potentially delete a battleship by the end of its next activation.

It wouldn't need to be in scan distance except against other PHR. Both torps plus one cannonade is 18 damage.

So, the standard point sizes for DFC are 750, 999, 1250, 1500, 1999, 2000, and 2500, right?

>you will never drop a sticky bomb on the power feeds to an Oppressor's cannons
This machine was clearly designed to root out insurgents. What self-respecting Resistance grenadier could possibly resist such a thick pair of targets?

The crab is not for lewd, user.

That being said, I'd love to see more variants of the GIANT ENEMY CRAB and SMALL ENEMY CRAB with things other than electrowebs.

Do you have a crab handy? If so, could you post it next to a base of infantry? I need to put a scale on my mental image of the model so I can decide if I want to order and paint one.

Unfortunately not, but I'm sure another user does.

Ogre, Gorgon, and Siren class ships when?

just wanted to ensure the kill with the addition of some CAW you konw

I think the avalon is the UCMs answer to the point and click deletion battleships of the other factions. fairly reliable 8 damage as 4 dice btl, heavy not superheavy so can act before battleships, or rtake 2 and murder anything you point them at.

Thing is, only the Diamond is point and click deletion; The DMC is actually a far inferior weapon, both damage wise and probability to cripple wise.

anydice.com/program/a88c

Really, only the UCM and Shaltari have singular weapon systems that can really burst down huge targets like battlecruisers and battleships.

I still like the phr battleships, even if the diamond is probably the best bb in game just because of the stupid power of the triad.

I guess the heracles gets a bit more survivability and brawl capability when compared to the hog to make up for the dmc being a bit lacking. The particle triad does seem really stronk now I think about, wonder how balanced it'll be in play compared to papercrafting. As yeah, I did a bit of thinking and couldn't think of any situation in which the cannon had an advantage compared to the triad. "Hmm, dmc has higher sdamage per shot so less chance of saves soaking it on a non crit no wait particle" etc etc.

Really, all you need to do is look at the statistics.

Triad has a higher average damage than the DMC against any armor value.
Triad has a better probability to do at least 2, 4 or 6 damage by a non-insignificant margin compared to the DMC against any armor value.
Triad has a nearly 60% chance to do 6 damage per firing, while DMC has a 35% chance at best.
Triad (depending on how crippling interacts with particle) has either an 87.5% or 99.54% chance to do at least one critical, inflicting crippling, while the DMC only has a 75% chance (which isn't bad, mind you)

The Triad is legitimately the best weapon in the game, bar none. I doubt even the Viper is more damaging than it.

Also, all lances should be made 2+ lock.
anydice.com/program/a8b1

Granite could possibly be given linked, but only if it were up-priced to the Amber's cost.

I think all lances should be made 4+ and the DMC should lose crippling.

If you look at the math you will see that it is clear THAT UCM IS THE BEST YOU FUCKING XENO SHITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I dunno, but there's noises being made about PHR Heavy broadsides being very not good. Thinking about a 4 Achilles list to see if there's something amazing past the wall of awful.

As soon as we get dreads or heavy+ ships with reinforced armor, the heavy broadsides will find their place as the only semi-reliable (non particle) means of critting the hard targets. Until then they're not awful, but they don't really stand out as particularly good either. They're just kinda there.

They're not terrible. They're slightly fancier 6400 turrets, and I've been on both the giving and receiving end of enough of those to know that they're not to be underestimated.

That said, mediums are generally better. Even against heavies the heavy guns only put out a little more damage on average, and not being able to focus the broadsides on one target is more of an issue when hunting the rarer and tougher heavy ships.

The main reason to take an Achilles is for the torpedo anyway. The guns are just there to clean up.

Part of the problem is that torps aren't very effective. Too many points of failure on them right now. It makes the Achilles not really worth while because of it

Started work on the BB and my other Strix class. slowest part is waiting for the washes to dry. At least two more coats before I can flip them over and work on the underside.

...

Since it's resin, how strong is the release agent on those Battleship parts? I remember with Spartan Games stuff how you basically had to scrub all of their resin parts with a brush in a bowl of soapy water just to get undercoat or superglue to stick.

Wasn't particularly bad for me. A quick rinse was all it needed, everything has stuck to the resin just fine. Haven't tried the glue yet, but since it'll be adhering to the paint it shouldn't be an issue so long as I'm not manhandling her.

They're plenty effective if you use them properly. They're no DMC, but torps are bad news for any ship and can stop that Beijing from going weapons free to dodge, probably multiple times if it even works at all.

Bells are a generally better investment, but Bells are pretty much the perfect equipment combo anyway, and Achilles has its merits against big ships.

Because they don't autocrit and takes multiple turns to hit, they are a paper tiger. It just 6 damage. 2 volleys from a rio main gun will do the same. And you can keep firing that all game.

You'd likely need 3 volleys from a Rio, probably 4 against a well armoured or shielded ship. But considering the torp only has a 50/50 chance to deal 6 damage itself, fair point. It may be that the only reason I've found them so effective is that people are scared of them here and fuck up their own plans trying to avoid or delay the things.

It has now been over a year since the last time Hawk's website was updated.

Happy inactivity birthday I guess.

It has actually been about 13 months. I only checked just now. No mention of dropfleet being available. This can't be good for business.

Happy belated inactivity birthday.

We'll give your 4200's three attacks if you give us 2+ lance lock :^)

anyone got invasion pics of the new units? Apparently the resistance Osprey looks sick

HOLY SHIT WHAT
SAUCE

This is Col Idris Elbas air transport. Vigilo Confido, Earth Resistance.

Painted corvettes

...

Its fucking beautiful.

...

What are some of the 'best' units for PHR in DzC, other than the Hades style ones.

More Hades..

...

Valkyries, Apollo and Helios.

Let me rephrase that, which units are the 'worst' from the PHR?

sir you are confusing do you mean actually bad, or are considered bad but sorta are just meh, or are bad as in no one likes fighting them?

Are Bad:
Taranis, Janus, Juno, Menchit

Sorta Bad:
Hyperion, Ares

People dont like fighting:
Hades, pre nerf Medusa, Odin Brick, Zeus.

I mean ones that are terrible to bring in a list and could even lose you the game just by bringing them at the utter worst.

Ares spam is actually amazing, but that is situational. It will never roll worse than 3+; that makes some lists stop working.

and why are they so bad would also be nice.

From what I hear around the internets:
-Menchit A1s are strictly anti-personnel but aren't good at getting at said infantry
-Hyperions are sad because the Odin kinda does their job better without being pidgeonholed
-the Janus is a slow scout that pays for two guns, neither of which can really kill anything in practice
-Taranis is inaccurate, pillowfisted, and reliant on spotters
-Juno can't really get anywhere by itself, and after factoring in the cost of a Neptune you might as well just put your guys in a Triton and get there twice as fast

>Shaltari dreadnought has either have:
>super particle lance pentad
>or
>some cheeky distortion fuckery
Which is it, thread?

So, apparently the standard tournament sized list for DFC is going to be 1250; what do you guys think of this?

at that point level something tells me that there won't be many battleships....

why, its a lower value so something with a decent amount of hitpoints will be pretty survivable, and several of the battleships can put out serious firepower for their point cost without going weapons free, I think well see fewer UCM/Scourge battleships, but still PHR and Shaltari.

This also makes the maximum group size 416 points, meaning not even the UCM can do double battleships in tourney lists.
Which means there's no reason to keep the Beijing at 252 now, and it can go down to 250 :^)

hmm, that's a good point. I just thought about it as in they'd be able to lead on a merry chase while the important objectives were taken by the frigates and cruisers.

wait and see what we get with the first Errata/Faq i know you just want this cause your autism demands round numbers

>wait and see what we get with the first Errata/Faq i know you just want this cause your autism demands round numbers
That's not true at all, and I'm insulted that you'd think so!

My autism only demands round numbers for heavy and superheavy ships, so long as most heavy and superheavy ships have round prices

Speaking of new tourney limit, how does this look?

--------------------------------------
UCM 1250 - 1241pts
UCM - 6 launch assets

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup (269pts)
1 x Avalon - 195pts - H
+ UCM Vice-Admiral (80pts, 4AV)
2 x Lima - 74pts - L

SR10 Vanguard battlegroup (205pts)
1 x Atlantis - 205pts - H

SR7 Line battlegroup (175pts)
1 x Berlin - 105pts - M
2 x Toulon - 70pts - L

SR9 Line battlegroup (240pts)
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x Santiago - 44pts - L
1 x Seattle - 132pts - M

SR5 Pathfinder battlegroup (130pts)
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
3 x Santiago - 66pts - L

SR4 Pathfinder battlegroup (142pts)
2 x Taipei - 78pts - L
2 x Jakarta - 64pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

Giant aura of "fuck space-time."

>All shots against the dread originating outside a 6" bubble receive +1 Lock

>Once per turn, a ship within a 6" of the dread and on the same orbital layer (this can be itself) can target all incoming fire with PD and succeeds PD on 4+ for the rest of the turn. ZA WARUDO

>Harmonic Grav-Oscillator (primary weapon profile):
>[Lock 2+ | Attack 3 | Dam * | Distortion, Impel-2, Alt-1]
>2x lines of [Lock (Target's Armour) | Attack d3+2 | Dam * | Close Action, Distortion, Impel-2, Alt-2]

>Plus a pair of Grav Coils and token Harpoons

I think this would go a long way towards solving the problem of Shaltari vessels being too fragile.

Holy shit

Nice.

I think the Echo and Glass actually look the best once painted.

>the problem of Shaltari vessels being too fragile.
That has literally never been a problem. Unshielded Shaltari ships have a tiny sig and 4+ shields perform better than 3+ armour against almost all weapons.

Nickar looks a whole lot better painted, I'm starting to warm up to it. I still don't like it as much as the ones I made out of heavy cruiser hats, but I don't think it looks like shit anymore.

Oh fuck that looks good. I might have to start a Resistance army just for this guy.

maybe swap the jakarta to another group and put the 2 new orleans from the line group in there, remember the jakarta have to be within 4" to confer their ageis rule, and the taipeis are going to be up in that shit.

That's actually the point to have them with the Taipei's; since they'll be in CAW range, they'll need all the defense they can get to not fucking die.

But that's what Taipeis are supposed to do and it will probably happen anyway. I guess it could be useful against bombers while you're approaching.

It was sarcastic.

Yeah, but I'd like for them to be able to facetank return CAW from shit like Djinns; +12 PD to the entire group is huge.

Is PD totaled among ships in a group?

Because unless I misunderstand, it will just turn out as +4 PD to whatever is being shot at, which equates to 1.33 more saves.

how are you going to face tank oculus beams out the wazzoo? Or a full light PHR broadside

>that moment when the next resistance hero is gonna add a fucking old human walker used to hunt and kill large game animals

How can other factions even compete with the resistance?

Aegis add is its Aegis value as extra PD to all ships within 4" since jakarta is aegis (6) each ship gets +6 PD dice for each jakarta in 4"

Well, I guess two saves is still a little bit of an improvement vs a CAW counter attack.

Again though, I'm not sure a bunch of frigates will survive long enough to really make use of the Jarkarta's presence.

What said; every Taipei and Jakarta in that group will have 15 PD.

I can't, I'd deal with them in same way you're suppose to; abusing inter-layer accuracy penalties and being sneeki breeki about it. Just because I can't face-tank guns doesn't mean face tanking CAW isn't a good idea.

If you're worried about Djinns then you'd be better off just getting another Taipei, maybe making room for 2 if you can. Djinns can't shoot you if they're dead, and a Taipei pair is a lot less effective than a group of 4. All that Djinn group needs is 2 survivors to gang up and suddenly that PD is a lot less significant. Only 2 shots actually need to get through.

True; ergo, 3 Taipei +1 Jakarta is the superior ratio.

I feel like this is a particularly elegant list, but I'm not sure how I feel about just three combat ships (even if they're excellent ship in general). Shaltari lists are pretty damn weird; I may just replace the Rubys with Onyxs or Obsidians and maybe slot an Amber in somewhere.
--------------------------------------
Shaltari 1250 - 1240pts
Shaltari - 4 launch assets

SR17 Flag battlegroup (350pts)
1 x Diamond - 270pts - S
+ Star Elder (40pts, 3AV)
2 x Opal - 80pts - L

SR10 Vanguard battlegroup (200pts)
1 x Ruby - 200pts - H

SR10 Vanguard battlegroup (200pts)
1 x Ruby - 200pts - H

SR6 Line battlegroup (160pts)
1 x Basalt - 145pts - M
1 x Voidgate - 15pts - L

SR8 Pathfinder battlegroup (145pts)
1 x Emerald - 100pts - M
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L

SR8 Pathfinder battlegroup (145pts)
1 x Emerald - 100pts - M
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

Alternately, I have just enough points for an Amber or a Turquoise if I do that, and drop a single voidgate.
More guns, or Caw/Bombardment?

feel like you're going to have to be very very careful how you use your ships, the combat ones that is, because the loss of any one of them is a huge chunk of firepower, but still they can put the hurt on for sure. Interesting list would try.

Anyone happen to know how many points the recommended build for the starter fleets are?

PHR, Scourge, and UCM are about 532-534 pts

Shaltari are 590

Thats if you build and field everything in the starter fleets.

>tfw you realize that Hawk cut out the vertical "spine" running through the Manticore's jaw to make room for the Torpedo
Clever

Agreed with all points except the Hyperion: It's a specialist unit. Unlimited range lane lockdown is still very valuable.

You can also take on a singleton or pair walk-on and fire down major roads for a very low price. They serve a different and reasonably useful role than Odins.

All of the others on that list are, as you say, complete trash. I do take Junos, but just for the sake of having one drive on 3 inches and drop Valkyries into a building for even cheaper than a Triton, then letting the APC rot.

>thought the Basilisk looked kind of silly in photos
>primed, assembled, and in formation with its fellow ships it actually looks downright intimidating

I am become Death, destroyer of butts.

>Literally sticking a battleship's worth of guns on a stealth platform without peer
>all for 205 points
A B S O L U T E
M A D J E L L I E S

I thought you guys might enjoy this; there are some pretty interesting patterns to be seen when everything is all stacked up like this.

Random fix time for battleships?

UCM: Reinforced Armor
Scourge: ...Beast? Not sure here.
PHR: Fine.. except perhaps increase Minos speed.

>got into Scourge for the battleships, really like the heavy cruisers as well
>neutral towards the Manticore but think that the Basilisk looks like the worst dogshit in the game
Well damn. The worst part is that they aren't even bad ships, they're just overshadowed by the full cloak 16 damage bullshit.

The battleships are fine in all honesty, the Diamond is just an absolute BEAST compared to them.

If anything, I'd leave the UCM as is, except possibly a point reduction, with them being the vanilla ships.
Scourge battleships could probably get some flavor of stealth/cloaking to match with the HC/BCs.
PHR are perfectly fine, and the Minos is a total monster. Also, arbitrary changes in ship statistics based on loadout rather than hull class is a nogo.

Here's to hoping that the Akuma and Banshee look good.
I honestly like the super wizard hat of the BC's, in all honesty

UCM: Not needed
Scourge: Fix the battlecruisers
PHR: Not needed
Shaltari: Not needed

Maybe a minor signature downgrade could work, or otherwise have a more gradual increase with the different cruisers and battlecruisers. Just doubling the signature of all cruisers is a bit excessive.

I don't mind the hat on the Manticore since that ship is tall and thin from top to bottom, it kind of reminds me of a knife which is appropriate. It's those stupid guns on the Basilisk that don't fit with the hat at all and have half the oculus dots replaced with ugly bars.

I'm sorry

>I don't mind the hat on the Manticore since that ship is tall and thin from top to bottom, it kind of reminds me of a knife which is appropriate. It's those stupid guns on the Basilisk that don't fit with the hat at all and have half the oculus dots replaced with ugly bars.

Agreed; it could have been something like a double or even triple grouping of the fin-like things you see on the Shenlong, Sphinx, and Yokai.

>no Sphinx and Yokai for 2 extra generations of son
What is this low effort memery? If people tell you to stop that just means that you haven't gone nearly far enough.

But user, the Daemon, Sphinx, and Yokai don't have wizard hats!

Oh, so that's how it is then. You hattists make me sick. I've had enough of this hat-based discrimination. Just because a ship was built without a hat doesn't make it inferior.

>Just because a ship was built without a hat doesn't make it inferior.
Yes it does :^)

>Scourge Dreadnought
>the hat to end all hats
>Full Cloak, Stealth, Beast
>enough firepower to make the Basilisk look like a Harpy
>straight up 400 points
What would it be called, thread?