Panzemensch in 40K

I thought it was the other factions that needed asspulls to survive a human wave of a trillion people and thousands demi-gods?

I briefly looked at the comic, do the Americans even have a chance against Nazis in it?

Actually they are most likely one who wins it, currently they raiding USA to do as much damage and force them into peace talks (they allready made surrender anybody from Western Allies). They allready have plenty of their own super solders, including one top ones. Also they know alot about super serum. They also have control of alot parts of Europe still.
If we are lucky nazis who deploy huge number of forces in USA may finally suffer crushing losses, if not, author made some asspull to save them but in long run USA (with black and women super solders) will be one who win it.
However there are Japanase with their own super solders (and sloten american nuke) they made fuck things for USA too (before losing anyway).
Soviets don't know how to create super serum, they strongest character in story (who can also make super serum) but she is lose cannon and barely help Stalin, because of that they just holding R-M treaty territory and building forces, hard to tell what will be with them.

Yes.

The premise of the comic isn't that the Nazis win, it's that the war drags on and causes absolute havoc. The Nazis may keep winning battles, but they're in shambles, essentially everything but their enhanced human project is fucked.

The halo effect's range is limited only by line of sight, right? The curvature of the Earth is the only thing stopping tank men from nuking targets on the other side of the planet.

They'd be amazing in space. Just put them on a ship in a vacuum-sealed suit and they can turn anything in visual range into slag. They'd make it really hard to make planetfall too.

This the war is supposed to drag on until almost everyone is utterly fucked, that unfortunately means that the Nazis have to keep winning battles no matter how improbable it is for them to do so in order to keep the war and thus the comic going

Why don't the Allies just give the serum to Chinese(who are part of Allies in WW2) and turn their military into Super Soldiers ?

With 600 mln people IIRC, and army/militia in range of 20 million(IIRC) they could have whole divisions of Super Soldiers

There's a whole subplot about how the government doesn't want colored people to have powers. What happens when the walking battleships start asking for rights, or independence in the case of India?

Because then the Allies and their kids have to learn Mandarin instead of German.

Jesus, user, why did you go full retard?

Mostly, the Allies still looked down on the Chinese and there were worries of them becoming a world power later on.

More to the point, the US actually had the population and industry to steamroll Germany and adding China into the mix wasn't worth the risk of smuggling it past the Japanese.

They get their shit pushed in by any race with psykers. They get their shit pushed in by Necrons, whose basic firearm is on par with a Halo blast. They get their shit pushed in by the 'Nids who can eat an Uber attack and wear them down by forcing them to keep using their powers until they break down. They get their shit pushed in by the IG who drown them in artillery and bypass their Halo fields with energy weapons. They get their shit pushed in by the Tau who'd exploit the line of sight limitation on Halo powers. They'd have their best results against Space Marines and Orks.

Churchill was assassinated and US President as well.On top the Washington DC was razed too.

This is stupid, by this time the Allies would be using nukes left and right along with chemical weapons.

Manhattan Project got nuked, and the only functioning bomb was a dud

The Nazi's are long past that point. Given the figures in the comic and using the total pre-war population of Nazi Germany, they can only manage to develop a single division of Ubers. They simply shouldn't have enough Ubers to defend themselves, which I think is why the comic completely ignores all but a small fraction of the European theatre.

>They get their shit pushed in by any race with psykers.

Just like Tau get their shit pushed in by psykers every time?

>They get their shit pushed in by the IG who drown them in artillery and bypass their Halo fields with energy weapons.

If they can block halo effects, and often tank them, I'm pretty sure they can block lasers and plasma. Energy weapons like this, and especially Necron gauss weapons, might actually be WORSE against tank men than standard arms, as the halo field fucks with similar effects. So far how it works is that you can't really hurt a tank man with that kind of attack unless you can generate a greater output (i.e. you're a higher activation tank man) or you concentrate fire really hard.

Has this comic had any new issue yet? The last time I checked the Nazis is about to land troops on New York or something with submarine.

Yeah Uber:Invasion just came out it currently has 2 issues out so far

>Manhattan Project got nuked

Pretty Ironic.

The Manhattan Project was completely destroyed by telepathic Uber spies who managed to infiltrate the USA, discover the existence of the Manhattan Project, infiltrate all of the Manhattan Project sites, sabotage the nuclear weapons program so that Japan gets a free nuclear bomb, then completely destroy the nuclear weapons program so thoroughly that the USA can't simply rebuild it. I feel I should mention that given the timeline of the Manhattan Project it creates a giant plot hole in that it would require the Uber spies to be deployed approximately a year before the series begins.

>They get their shit pushed in by Necrons, whose basic firearm is on par with a Halo blast.

Way I see it, Necron guns are either really effective against them, or shit tier against them. The distortion halo is shown to disrupt attempts by other halo blasts to hit the panzermensch, even in its resting state. Whether the blast can get through or not depends on how powerful the attacker is in comparison to the defender.

So it really depends whether a gauss rifle can put out as much or more power than a panzermensch.

>They get their shit pushed in by the 'Nids who can eat an Uber attack and wear them down by forcing them to keep using their powers until they break down.

This is about right. Against Tyranids, panzermensch would be best used as surgical instruments, for getting rid of synapse creatures. They'd have to have conventional support to fight the horde in a sustained conflict.

Are you sure? I just check and it seems Avatar Press is putting it on Kickstarter to be released on Feb.

I think a better question would be this: If the Imperium had access to Woden's Blood, and could manufacture enhanced humans on a similar scale to Space Marines, would humanity be better off?

Yep, last issue came out on Wednesday

Given the ratios seen in the comic, a planet with Earth's current population would be able to produce approximately 1.4 million Ubers, of which 280 would be Battleship class. So yes, a single mindcontrolled Battleship could destabilize an entire offensive.

And the Necrons would totally win through greater output since pretty much all of their weapons work like Halo effect.

I'm not sure they'd go through with it.

Tinkering with genetics in that way is frowned heavily upon in the Imperium. And Woden's Blood might not even be of human origin.

>So yes, a single mindcontrolled Battleship could destabilize an entire offensive.

True. You could make this argument for a lot of things, though. A single mind-controlled Titan Princep could destabilize an entire offensive, but in practice this sort of thing doesn't seem easy to achieve.

Even then Necrons would push their shit in.

Gauss is their version of mass produced shit like lasguns. They'd just keep raising the stakes until ubers can't respond or get bored and throw a C'Tan shard at them.

Shapeshifting spies suck

Strictly speaking you'd need to mindcontrol the Princeps and Moderati and be able to withstand the Titan machine spirit to take control of a Titan. Superheavy tanks would also need you to mindcontrol multiple crew members. In all honesty I'd put tankmen on par with Librarians or CSM sorcerers.

I could see Ubers being pretty damn effective against Necrons in surgical strikes.

Obviously, they wouldn't replace conventional forces - they can't. They'd be pretty excellent for dropping into a Necron phalanx. Much weaker, more fragile creatures can tear through Necrons with ease. If they have trouble fighting shit like Aspect Warrior and Marines, they'll get murdered in droves by Ubers.

This is especially true of the majority of Necrons, who are slow and ponderous. One of the primary advantages of Ubers is that they can often move faster than weapons can track. Necron Warriors are basically metal zombies in terms of reaction speed.

>Dark Eldar Haemonculus gets fascinated by the fleshwarped survivors of one of their conflicts
>Proceeds to kidnap a bunch of them and turn them into horrifying surgically altered bodyguards that become a mainstay of Archon courts.

That is pretty horrifying.

Imagine if it turns out that there's a particular gland or organ that is responsible for the ability to generate the halo effect, and a skilled enough gene-wizard transplant or clone it into other creatures.

Dark Eldar with fucking distortion halos.

They don't even give serum to their other allies, Soviets even have limited suply but not formula.
China wouldn't help much in Europe what is most important so far because of German having serum first.

Nah, primarchs are extremely durable, and barely understood.
An example of this tissue durability is Girlyman had a bunch of boarders in the heresy on the hull of his ship.
He went outside personally and fought them off, without his helmet, for a few hours or something.
He then comes back inside, exhales, inhales, then walks off.
Primarch skin is abnormally tough. They could probably take a tank round to the chest and just get winded as well.
He then comes

hmm, wat
cont
inside, releases a breath, inhales, then wanders off like nothing happened.
primarch skin is weirdly tough, no one except the emperor knows how.

>implying China would exist when the Japanese have super-soldiers.
In that universe, China's probably just an entire county equivalent of Nanking. Also, do you really expect the Allies to give China utter control of the world? Fuck that.

I don't think we've ever seen a primarch take an autocannon, unarmoured, to the chest and shrug it off.

What we have seen is that they can survive grievous injury. Russ got his chest torn open by Magnus and he lived through it. I'd say that battleship class tank-men are a lot tougher than Primarchs, in that it takes more energy to penetrate their skin and bore through their muscle, but they're not as durable. Their regenerative abilities aren't as good, nor is their capacity for continuing to function with grievous injury. If you manage tear their entire chest open it won't heal, they dead. They might not be dead right then and there, but they can be considered a casualty of that battle.

nor is their capacity for continuing to function with grievous injury.
The motherfucker got turned into what you see in this pic and lived 5 more hours until he was euthanized by industrial drill to the head

Yeah, but he wasn't really functioning, was he?

He was a casualty the moment Sieglinde ripped his arms off.

I'd like to see any none battleship class uber take a fucking monolith

living metal will laugh off any attack attempts by conventional tankmen.

and necrons weapons are absolutely retarded when you stop and actually think about how they work, you have guns which flay targets at an atomic level, guns which fire living lightning bolts which grow exponentially more intense the more damage they cause, guns which destroy synapses, energy weapons powerful enough to vaporise battletanks and guns which TELEPORT PEOPLE INTO ANOTHER DIMENSION

thats not even mentioning the really stupid things like weapons which work by accelerating the entropy of the system they strike until atomic bonds sever and particles fade away into thermal radiation or weapons which cut souls as well as bodies.

speaking of soul weapons, the eldar wraithguard would brutilise the tank ment too because super tough bodies won't save you from having your soul punched out of your body or your mind trapped in a endless 4th dimensional maze.

or being hit with anti-light and horrifying poisons in the case of ther Deldar

they'd be pretty effective against marines though, and guard until someone called the centaurio ordinatus or legio titanicus and dropped some admech ordinance on them

Haven't read the comic, but I've read about it and it seems pretty interesting. Thing is, are the Ubers any tougher to the more esoteric ordnance in this universe? Vortex bombs, nanyte blasters, the Dark Eldar and Harlequin sensory weapons, ect.
Psykers? Could you shred some with Psychic shriek? Grav-weapons?

They have to basically be treated like low-level (For the regular thanks/heaby tanks) or high-level (for the Destroyers, Cruisers and Battleships) psykers and daemons, but without any of the defense to the above. Grey Knights would probably be laughing if they could get a force weapon stab off.

I can see the Guard or GSC struggling, but they always do. Everyone else has a good few counters.

>I'd like to see any none battleship class uber take a fucking monolith

Considering that they can be taken out by missiles, I'd say that several tank-men concentrating fire or less of the ones with higher halo activations could wreck a Monolith. A cruiser or destroyer class could probably do it single-handedly.

Really though, you're right about a lot of the more insane weapons in 40K hurting them. It doesn't really make them useless, though - a Marine dies when it's hit by a vortex bomb or a D-cannon, but Marines are still the premiere fighting force of the Imperium.

A tank-man is like a Space Marine (they're even roughly the same height IIRC) but ten times stronger, exponentially more durable, and way, way faster. Their speed is probably the best thing they have going for them - a lot of the things you cite as oneshotting them would have trouble simply because they're slow. Wraithguard and Necron warriors function a step behind everyone else, tank-men function a step ahead. You'd use tank-men the same way Space Marines should be used - they drop in, they hit like an atomic bomb with legs, and then they redeploy.

>Necron
>totally not asspull faction

Ah that's the sound based one.
The chrono weapon is even cooler.

Chrono-cannon is several grades above those, it one-hits Eldar battleships in the middle of a graviton storm so powerful even the Ark Mechanicus took severe damage from the journey. Also, the Archmagi fight at the end was awesome. "Gods of Knowledge" Matrix-style anime battle?

Ulator would probably turn anything short of a Battleship or high-physical Cruiser-class Panzermensch to mush, though. It works pretty damn well on Titans, giant mountain forces or hordes of thousands of men. Also has a machine spirit so strong it mindfucked 6 of the Techmarines who tried to hijack one to death, although they did eventually get two out of 3.

Kind of want to see Anacharis Scoria going up against one or two of the German battleships. I suspect he'd own them, but the fight would be badass.

Yeah but that was due to piss poor writing and the author being a self hating britcuck

Hmmm, so. V1 Panzermensch:

>WS4 BS4 S6 T6 W2 I6 A3 Ld10 Sv3+

>Fleet of Foot, Feel No Pain, Move Through Cover

>Men of Steel: The V1 Panzermensch's close combat attacks have AP3 and Rending.

>Blurring Speed: The V1 Panzermensch has a 4+ Invulnerable save against shooting attacks. This save increases to a 3+ against shots fired in Overwatch.

That seem about right? I'm not sure how you'd stat their psychic bullshit.

wraithguard are I5, they're faster than eldar

they're faster than space marines despite being 3 times the size and vastly tougher

I also find the idea that tankmen are tougher than marines to be suspect since basic tankmen are explicitly vulnerable to high powered rocket launchers using ww1 era ammunition and space marine bolters are essentially semi-auto rocket launchers

heavy bolters especially would gib a basic tankman and is a fully automatic weapon that can get issued to tac squads regularly

another unfortunate thing about tank men is that they don't tend to wear much in the way of real armour because their skin is often tougher, so the hellfire compound would be incredibly dangerous to them and such weapons are issued to sternguard base.

of course there is no denying that the tank men would do work up close but their weapons are really not that long ranged with the exception of double aura tankmen who have demonstrated use as artillery, so they would have to get the drop on space marines in an urban enviroment or they would get slaughtered by heavy weapons.

and of course, even battleships have no real counter against psychic assault, and any competent telepath would be able to psychic scream a destroyer or maybe a cruiser, another reason why they wouldn't wanna tangle with eldar.

and god help us all if the tyranids recover samples of wodens blood, that would be a game over event.

still, the tank men would be very powerful if they were given proper support from other imperial elements and while not as well trained as space marines they would certainly be far more dangerous in cc

they wouldn't be able to strike out alone though, they don't have a marines endurance and have a nasty habit of burning themselves out

>wraithguard are I5, they're faster than eldar

However, they their ponderous nature is reflected in the fact that they have a rule that makes them do nothing on a 1, and in fluff they're always depicted as slow.

Basically, I5 is an abstraction that GW gave them to make them worth their points compared to earlier editions, where nobody fielded them.

I'd say a V1 panzermench would be weapon and ballistic skill 3 with 2 wounds at strength 6 and toughness 5

Ld 8, I5 and a 4+ armour.

they'd have an S5 AP3 12" assault 2 attack to represent their halo and an innate 5++ to represent using a halo in defence

Heavy Panzermensch would be

WS4 BS3 S7 T6 W3 I5 Ld8 3+

they'd have the hardened armour from 30k to let them reroll their armour save to represent the ablative they wear and the same 5++ that a V1 has

the double halo Panzer would have a 24" range assault 2 S7 AP2 attack with an alt profile for S8 AP 2 ordinance 1 blast at 48"

WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W2 I5 Ld8 5+

they'd have a 4++ for the halo which would only work against shooting.

Thats a churchill 7 with a 75mm gun

they may seem ponderous when the story is told from their own perspective but thats only because they're half dead necromantic constructs locked in a walking psycho-reactive statue.

in reality the presence of a spirit-seer can give the clarity needed for a wraithguard to move with lightning speed

Not at all, Wraith units are not mentioned to be sluggish in any sense of the world, they are ponderous because they literally ponder their moves.

With a Wraithseer there to let them see the world fully, Wraiths are easily able to be as fast as living eldar, or in the case of Wraithlords and Wraithknights, much faster.

How would you ensure loyalty from them? Are they indoctrinated? Something else?

Space Marines get severe indoctrination and yet some of them still rebel. Tau have some sort of chemical/psychic link to Ethereals and yet Farsight still went rogue. Would it be possible for one of these guys just to be paid not to fight?

thats a point, the ruinous powers would have a field day with these things, khorne especially since they're halo isn't psychic

Consider that WS isn't just actual skill, despite the name. It's the likelihood of the dudes' attacks hitting. Same goes for BS.

Phoenix Lords are better fighters than Solitaires, but Solitaires have a higher WS simply because they're 2fast to miss.

A tank-man's BS should be ridiculously high, by the way, since they literally can't miss unless whatever they're 'shooting' at with their halo effect is too fast for their eyes to follow it. The halo effect manifests wherever they're looking, they don't really need to aim in a conventional manner - stuff like manual dexterity doesn't matter, only the tank man's reaction speed in comparison to the target's.

We've clearly seen Tank-men miss though and the projectile is literally that, a projectile.

Some mind bullet attacks still need to roll BS bro.

a space marine librarian can do the exact thing with witchfires, as can any psyker

a librarian still needs to roll to hit witchfires and still does it at BS 4

WS and BS are literally expressions of talent

and solitaires are in fact better fighters than phoenix lords because they're greater daemons

Looks largely good, but tone down the double halo blast to S6 non-ordnance or AP3 or something, since there's basically no reason not to use it, you don't want them charging.

Battleships should probably be divided into physical (Gargant creatures, probably) and Blitzmenschen like Maria.

Not loyal moreso than other men, one of the top Nazi battleships betrayed and murdered Hitler IIRC.

Also, keep them all at Ld8, since they're not particularly mentally stable and it gives them a nice weakness to psykers.

I think you really oversell Ubers.

The fact that Mephiston could probably solo all of them without using Psyker powers really means alot.

I mean we see them tanking 75mm guns, sure, but we don't see them tanking Plasma bolts or melta guns and they would have literally zero defence against power weapons.

they'd be monstrous creatures easily and they survive a lot of hits in universe

but 40k would chew them up and spit them out, and the biggest danger they pose on a galactic scale is the possibility of them getting eaten by tyranids.

thats a nightmare scenario

A battleship almost got taken out by a boat's cannons

>They'd be monstrous creatures easily

No they won't. They wouldn't be able to match the strength of a Greater Daemon or even a Carnifex.

They survive WW2 era weapons fine, but like Says, a battleship almost died to a Gunboat, What chance do they have against mini-sun firing guns and things that cook future tanks.

Hell. Not even mentioning things like Wulfen Who WOULD tear even a Battleship apart.

True, I was asking him to tone them down. They're damn tough when they're fighting basically autoguns, mortars and the occasional autocannon round, but plasma, melta and grav wouldn't give a damn, Admech rad, transonic or power weaponry will own them , and those are just the footsoldiers.

Battleships would probably have the threat level of a Hive Tyrant or thereabouts.

>and solitaires are in fact better fighters than phoenix lords because they're greater daemons

That's not what a solitaire is dude. It's heavily implied that they're the Eldar equivalent of blanks, who have had their soul removed so they can channel Slaanesh's power without being eaten.

And in fluff Phoenix Lords out-skill greater daemons anyway.

Apparently a battleship tank man has a lifting capacity of 30+ tons. They would kill a Hive Tyrant with a single punch, and they regularly trade punches of that level with one another.

The regular tank-men wouldn't be supergods in 40K, but the battleships would be extremely lethal. They would definitely murder the shit out of most 40K special characters.

Way higher than 30 tons.

They can easily lift a Sherman tank and throw it, and those are 66 tons. They can do that without visible effort.

The amount of force they could exert with a punch is enormous.

Wait, actually, a Sherman is 30-34 tons depending on the model. It's the ridiculous shit the Nazis built that was doubling that.

>30+tons
>Kill a hive Tyrant in a single punch.

Oh Am laughing. 30+ tons isn't even enough to crumble a Terminator.

Nork Dedogg can move a Chimera with ease, they are about 38 tonnes. So we can assume A Battleship is around Strength 6.

Still not higher than many things in the 40k Universe.

Nork can move a Chimera. He can't pick one up and throw it to the horizon.

Something that can casually hurl that amount of weight a fair distance can generate immense penetrative force. A Hive Tyrant's head would explode if hit by that kind of concentrated energy.

I mean, they're not bulletproof, they're just big. Boltgun rounds can hurt a Hive Tyrant.

>Still not higher than many things in the 40k Universe.

Combined with speed, force relative to size, etc, it is pretty impressive.

Most of the Primarchs are S6. And to be honest, the only Primarch to match a battleship's physical feats is Magnus... through the use of psyker powers.

Except it wouldn't because Hive Tyrands have like 4-5 wounds and won't be ID'd by a S6 hit.

I stand by S6 because like I said, Nork is S5 and can drag a chimera with ease while wounded badly by Shrapnel.

As is, a Carnifex would literally tear a Battleship apart on the charge, and a Hive Tyrand would be far too well equipped for a battleship to survive combat.

Are you kidding me? Magnus fires a fucking death laser That can Obliterate anything from his Eye, Battleships can barely project blasts that can destroy large stone buildings.

They're basic tier Librarians with S6 and a 4++ save built in but no Physic hood.

Deal with it.

And? Congratulations, you punch hard and quickly. That's just about the least dangerous thing you can be good at on a 40k battlefield, because, as says, quite a lot can pull that off.

Also, they're durable against brute-force attacks. Probably less so against blades that cut molecular bonds, liquefy the matter it passes through or irradiates it to the point of decomposing ON THE SPOT, and everything there is a 40k infantry weapon. Also they'd be utterly destroyed with graviton weapons.

Maybe true, although it probably wouldn't kill it or impair it much, but against something like a Solitare, a Mechanicus Archmagos or Dark Eldar Homunculus who can shred your nervous system as he duels you or a Daemon Prince who just wouldn't care, it isn't anywhere near enough. Also, if you can injure a battleship, that's there to stay and may even make itself worse, like HMH Churchill's knee injury nearly tearing her leg off.

This seems reasonable, although throwing in T6 W4 EW would probably be OK.

>T6 W4 EW

>On people whose entire durabilty is based on their Halo fields that if they get punctured show the Ubers are soft as fuck

You people need to remember the Uber's are not physically strong, not really, they're basically projecting their Halo fields through themselves to empower themselves up.

Basic tankmen would die to Massed bolter fire.

Crusiers would die to Melta and Plasma weapons

Battleships would need to take things like Lascannons and more exotic weapons like Rad and grav guns.

I'd probably give them a Inv save based on halo level really.

5++ tankmen, 4++ crusiers 3++ Battleships.

1 wound, 1 wound 3 wound respectively.

I mean Ghazkull would be able to kill one with a headbutt, let's be realistic here.

>Except it wouldn't because Hive Tyrands have like 4-5 wounds and won't be ID'd by a S6 hit.

Which is why battleships are almost certainly higher than S6. I have never, ever seen a Hive Tyrant survive something like that in fluff.

>As is, a Carnifex would literally tear a Battleship apart on the charge, and a Hive Tyrand would be far too well equipped for a battleship to survive combat.

Lel, fucking Eldar Autarchs and Space Marine Captains kill Hive Tyrants regularly in fluff.

>Are you kidding me? Magnus fires a fucking death laser That can Obliterate anything from his Eye, Battleships can barely project blasts that can destroy large stone buildings.

...Physical feat. PHYSICAL.

Magnus matches battleship strength by pumping himself up with psyker powers.

Yes, his mind bullets are way beyond anything in. But he's the only Primarch to ever show the kind physical strength shown by the battleships, and he can only do with with psychic assistance.

>Maybe true, although it probably wouldn't kill it or impair it much, but against something like a Solitare, a Mechanicus Archmagos or Dark Eldar Homunculus who can shred your nervous system as he duels you or a Daemon Prince

Yeah, these are all things that would fuck a battleship. They'd fuck most things in 40K too, though.

>You people need to remember the Uber's are not physically strong, not really, they're basically projecting their Halo fields through themselves to empower themselves up.

That's not correct through.

You can make Ubers with zero halo effect activations. Even without their halo fields active, their skin is stronger than steel and their muscles are even tougher.

>Which is why battleships are almost certainly higher than S6. I have never, ever seen a Hive Tyrant survive something like that in fluff.

>Battleships are higher than S6 because they could kill a Hive Tyrant

I'll just nip this in the bud. No, a Battleship would not be able to consistantly beat a Hive Tyrant.

Take your plothole laden, asspull shit from Veeky Forums if you're going to start crying the super Nazi's can't onehit giant magic alien bugs.

The Steel hard skin and Muscles are due to physical activation of the halo effect. It is literally the Halo effect because if it wasn't, things that cancel out other Halo effects like larger Halo effects wouldn't make them weak sauce. Thats why tackling opposite ubers with Halo attacks is easier than physical strength and why chruchill was ineffective, besides cuck writing of course.

Also, because of this, It's safe to say a Hive Tyrant with a Bonesword would onehit a Battleship, as it'll cut right through the Halo Effect like in fluff it cuts through Imperial shields.

>Basic tankmen would die to Massed bolter fire.
>Crusiers would die to Melta and Plasma weapons
>Battleships would need to take things like Lascannons and more exotic weapons like Rad and grav guns.

I pretty much agree on all this.

They wouldn't be smalltime in 40K though. The kind of individual characters that require dedicated grav-fire are the nastiest fuckers around.

There are very few human-sized creatures that require that sort of attention to take down, and very few of them have the speed or utility of an Uber. Remember, Dunkirk was fast enough that he appeared to vanish and reappear when sprinting, and he has roughly half the physical activation as a battleship class Uber.

The issue here is the Uberfag unable to realise that they are matched in power with things that are not exactly that special in the 40k universe though.

He's trying to say a Battleship would one hit a Hive Tyrant when even Marenus Calgar doesn't onehit Hive Tyrants.

And he's got Sieglinde tier plot armour.

>I'll just nip this in the bud. No, a Battleship would not be able to consistantly beat a Hive Tyrant.

I honestly think they would win 90% of the time.

They're just too fast for it. If an experienced Marine can keep up with and wear down a Hive Tyrant, a battleship could blitz the shit out of one. Or just, y'know, explode its entire upper body with a halo burst.

Possibly a bit weak, have T4-5-6 respectively and increase Cruiser to 2W.

Does it make a difference whether it was physical or not? I thought "Physical" Uber activations just got the Halo effect to boost durability and/or strength instead of lazors?

Also, any mid-to-high Magos can do the neural disruption thing, including the CARTOGRAPHERS. Really not hard to find a way around punching the Ubers to death.
Yeah, my opinion too.

Also, the Hellfire, Rad weaponry and other "Fuck Your Toughness" stuff would work OK, I expect.

Oh, the battleships are scary, yeah. They're not game-changingly scary, though, all military forces have ways to handle them.
The regular Ubers are basically slightly more powerful but dangerously unstable Marines (Table marines, not fluff). Get a Sicarian Infiltrator near a few and they can't see to Halo because of all the blood in their eyes and all their other senses being similarly impaired, for instance.

Precisely.

, they may be able to take one Hive Tyrant at the cost of severe injuries, but there's another 5 within 20 miles and more coming. Also, tyrants are powerful pseudo-psykers themselves, they have quite a few tricks.

>He's trying to say a Battleship would one hit a Hive Tyrant when even Marenus Calgar doesn't onehit Hive Tyrants.

I think he may actually have done that. Headpunch.

He struggled with the Swarmlord. Who has the nebulous power of... something.

Basically this is correct.

I think panzermensch (the basic ones) would be excellent answers to the conventional forces of basically all 40K forces. They'll punch/zap through marines, necrons, guard, etc. They'd be far less effective against the things that circumvent standard toughness (though, these things do get taken out by sheer grit... Marines can beat Sicarians, for example, they're just at a disadvantage).

They'd be best fielded alongside conventional guard forces in an Imperium-level civilization. Maybe even mixing them into squads of regular infantry, as a heavy weapon and a defense against close quarters assault by things like Chaos Marines.

I guess it would be possible to indoctrinate them, the same way it's possible to indoctrinate anyone. The main tank-men in the comic haven't undergone anything like that due to time constraints.

Siegfried is proof that they're just as susceptible to standard forms of brainwashing, like propaganda, as anyone else.

Yep, they'd probably struggle against Eldar of all kinds, Nids somewhat, Daemons and especially the Admech, since pretty much everything they have is esoteric as hell and/or has a truly insane punch to it, down to the line infantry, which are also all deadeye shots and expendable as hell.

I suspect you'd need to use WW1/early 2 Allied tank tactics, with them spread out supporting units of conventional infantry, and use the heavier classes for Blitzkreig and spearheading pushes.

Something else is that you'd want to actually equip them.

A battleship punch is basically a power fist punch. But since you'd only have so many battleships, you could afford to equip them with amazing shit to increase their killing power exponentially. Imagine what one could do with a thunder hammer or something. Or a power fist on top of their already-powerfist tier punches.

Shit, give them armour, too, increase their durability further. They can still move ridiculously fast wearing it, so why not?

I could see the Imperium just putting the standard V1s in the same armour as Scions, whereas the destroyers and cruisers and heavies would get a pattern of power armour similar to Sororitas.

Battleships would probably have to undergo some Grey Knight type shit with hexagrammic wards engraved all over their bones.

Nope, despite how people say how easily Calgar stomped the Avatar of Khaine, even those fights were challenging as fuck.

The Swarmlord was a straight up loss for the first round followed by a narrow victory the second.

And Statwise, the Swarmlord is only different to Hive Tyrant on intellect and fencing style, not really strength or durability.

>Battleships would probably have to undergo some Grey Knight type shit with hexagrammic wards engraved all over their bones.

Yeah, if I were the inquisitor tasked with studying the effect of Woden's Blood (let's just assume for this example that it's found on Terra and is assumed to be human in origin), and I figured out that every so often the effect is so great it can elevate the holy human form to S7 sorta tier, my first thought would be "Great dripping banoffee cocks, I've made a fucking Primarch!"

Then, my second thought would be "Well, what happened to most of the Primarchs?" They got mindfucked/possessed/turned to Chaos. At that point you'd want to institute full psycho-indoctrination and dermal warding in all subjects.

I wouldn't bother giving the standards armor. They seem to be about as durable as an armored Marine without it - maybe one is slightly less so than the other, but they're both at "may not die if hit with an MBT round" level. That's tough enough. I'd give them thick ceramite gloves instead, so they can punch Chaos Marines all day erry day, and thicker ceramite knee supports, since we've all seen how things work out when you forget to support your joints.

The battleships would get high end equipment. Daemonhammers and the like.