Warhammer Fantasy General

I want to start a 500pts army, since I cannot afford another full army, so I have hard time picking between melee-oriented Dwarfs (no guns whatsoever), Tzeentch-themed Chaos Warriors, Empire or Lizardmen.
Which one one of these would be easier and more fun to run at 500 points?

You would have to be the biggest idiot ever to trust Mannfred.

or just naively believing others are as descent to you. good people are often blind to evil within others.

Nah. You can just tell by looking at Mannfred that you shouldn't trust him.

to be honest, when he trusted Mannfred, Mannfred didn't look like bald shit.
Mannfred looked (and kinda was, afaik) kidna cool back then.

Never trust a man wearing hooker boots.

Here's a Sigmar for you

That's better.

Does anyone have a picture comparing the size/height of "human-sized" figures (e.g. Elves, Empire Troops, etc.) to, say, Ogres, Kroxigors and/or other, larger models?

How big are monstrous infantry like, say, Ogres supposed to be compared to humans in the fluff anyway? Are they much bigger in the fluff than they are on the tabletop?

Also, how big are a Space Marine, Empire Troop and heaven forbid, a Sigmarine compared to each other, miniature/tabletop-wise?

Apologies in advance for even daring to mention something related to Age of Scrub, I was just curious about the size comparisons.

be advised, that "human-sized" is very broad definition. Free Company, for instance, are absolutely out of proportion, too large, while, say, Glade Guard, are like tall halflings.

Human sized is kind of a weird definition in real real life.

Ogres are about 10 feet tall.

I was thinking at the size of the average Empire Swordsman/Spearman/Halberdier.

What about Kroxigors and Rat Ogres? Same deal same banana?

Dunno about the former, but rat ogres are very unique. I think they're usually like 8-12 feet tall.

Filthy noob (in warhammer) crossboarder. I have this skeletons and lich king, I bought them to practice minis and for aesthetical reasons but talking with the lhs guy he showed me a bit of the game and some starter boxes and one huge fig that were pretty cool to have an army (1700 something points I think) because, well if I have them why not use them for what they were intended.
I asked in the scale model thread but I guess here is the right place to ask (if not I will fuck off elsewhere) about the army of skeletons, I wanna know if it's op, meh, shitter tier or okay to play or if it has some pita rules or something like that?
I can search and post the units I liked and we put in the army if it helps

You know what the stormcasts lack?

skulls
you know what the Bloodbound lack?

things that aren't skulls

you contradict yourself

make up your mind - skulls or no skulls?

>Embarrassing

Hey buddy, I think you got the wrong thread, the Marines Look-alike Club is two blocks down.

>melee-oriented Dwarfs (no guns whatsoever)
Do you love being kited to death? Dwarf gunlines deserve the hate, but no-ranged dwarfs is blueballing yourself

>Tzeentch-themed Chaos Warriors, Empire or Lizardmen
All of them are good, viable options, you'll have to pick with personal preference and which one looks more interesting to paint

Beware tho, magic balance may be broken in that size

what about a few quarrelers? I really don't like using firearms in fantasy

There's no proper full-skeleton army, those are part of the Vampire Counts, their army is widely regarded as a strong one

>it has some pita rules or something like that?
You have no ranged combat options (besides magic), and your entire army will take huge casualities every turn if your general dies (Vampire Lords are some of the strongest in the game tho)

A recommendation, if they are not included (they should, those look like old boxes), use square bases for your army, so it will be playable with Warhammer Fantasy or Age of Sigmar (Warhammer's """replacement""", since Warhammer got axed)

they should aid a lot, considering it's 500 points, you should not face many monsters (making cannons and the like overkill)

As mentioned, pick an army you like, not the one that's most competitive, unless you are using Tomb Kings or Beastmen, balance doesn't need to be considered when picking an army, all of your picks are viable choices

Does anyone know where I can find any of the remaining battalion boxes that are out there? I know they're out of print, but they have the Empire knights and mortars I need. Ebay has proven a bit barren for army units in box.

Since 9th Age appears to be becoming more and more of its own thing, will it eventually get its own thread? or perhaps more appropriately, be moved to /awg/?

Granted, people are still free to play games in the WHFB setting using 9th Age rules, but (for Chaos at least) I am not sure if that will still easily be the case in the future as it is now, what with how the T9A team appears to be moving from "Four Marks, Four Gods" to "Seven Deadly Sins" which might probably also lead to the changing of rules for Chaos players.

dunno, does Pathfinder has separate threads from D&D? (legitimate question, I don't follow those)

Yes, easily spotted by their catgirls.

hm, seems superfluous to me, since both are the same thing (i know they'd disagree)

however, I believe T9A should stay in WHFB threads, since WHFB no longer has updates and T9A is more or less singleheartedly accepted as a successor.

I'm afraid once T9A really secures its place, with minis and big tournaments and stuff, people will be coming to T9A thread to discuss WHFB, not vice versa. would be a dark day for WHFB.

also, T9A has a pretty swell forum, I mostly use /whfbg/ to discusss T9A in relation to WHFB.

Why would they do something that is guaranteed to alienate even more people? They have no place doing such a thing, the only purpose of T9A is to make a more balanced Warhammer ruleset and motivate people to produce new models that work for Warhammer.

There's no diagreement to have, they are literally different systems with no shared setting. You're stating something objectively incorrect.

3.5ed, 5th ed and Pathfinder are more or less a same system with various bells and whistles to differentiate them.

D&D covers a whole lot of setting, so "no shared setting" is irrelevant. their main difference is different publishers, and while there are some people who care about that, they are faggots.

If 9th Age gets popular enough, of course. All you need to do is create a thread for it and there it is. You don't "get" threads, you make them, and they survive if they're active.

9th Age is pretty welcome here, at least in how it relates to Warhammer Fantasy, but if you think it's popular enough, create a thread for it, whether you make that from the fluff-point of Warhammer Fantasy or 9th Age itself, and feel free to mention it in here in case you want some people pulled over there.

The unfocused nature of this thread sometimes makes it hard for specific things to survive on it's own.

Another choice would be to create a dedicated WHFB/T9A thread, pulling on all the wargamers/tabletoppers.

Systems schmystems.

Sorry, wrong. This is like saying Celsius and Fahrenheit are the same thing because they both measure temperature.

Yeah, sorry about that, the last thread was on pg. 9 and I wasn't at home, so I just grabbed an image from Google.

not it's like saying a degree Celsius and a degree Kelvin is the same thing, because they are.

3.5 and PF differ less than 3.5 and 5

So how do yall figure Bretonnian nobility treat bastards and great bastards?

they trade and sometimes skirmish with the former and the latter are normally far away, in the Vaults and the Karaks of the World's Edge.

...oh, you're talking about family members? no idea.

That's going in the book!

>How big are monstrous infantry like, say, Ogres supposed to be compared to humans in the fluff anyway?

W E W that's a tall order, no pun intended. WFRP2 lists the following height ranges for Humans, Dwarfs, Elves and Halfings (From shortest female to highest male), though:

Dwarfs: 129,5-157,5 cm.
Elves: 165-193 cm.
Halflings: 99-127 cm.
Humans: 157,5-188 cm.

As for Ogres? Ogre Bulls are described as standing 305-335 cm tall, with Ogre Sows being slightly smaller.

So yeah, apparently the tallest Halfling men are still shorter than 1,5m, while any Ogre, male or female, regularly pulls 3m.

About what you'd expect. Forge alliances, give them shitty jobs, or denies their existence.

I assume that bastards don't get treated as nobility or are popular with the other noble families should they inherit titles.

In Bretonnia, you are considered noble if both your bloodlines are noble going back at least three generations, or by royal decree.

Note that if you are made into a noble in Bretonnia, your children will not be nobles. They will be peasants. The only way to somehow make a new noble bloodline is to actually engineer a situation where you end up with three generations of noble blood, or by having yourself, your children, and your grandchildren declared nobles, somehow.

Only then will your great-grandchildren be considered nobles upon birth.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Knights of the Grail book also points out that this has never happened.

Anyone wanna help me build a list for a 6th ed game?

My buddy and I played years ago so we dusted off the old books and models.

I have:

>Lords & Heroes
Blood Dragon on foot w/ HW and Shield
Blood Dragon on foot w/ add. HW
Blood Dragon w/ HW mounted on barded Nightmare
Wight w/ HW & shield mounted on Barded Nightmare
Wight on foot w/ great weapon
Necromancer on foot

>Core
20 skeles with HW & shield, full command
20 skeles with spear and shield, full command
20 zombies, full command
5 Bat Swarms

>Special
5 black knights w/ full command
5 black knights w/ full command
3 Spirit Hosts

Rare
>Banshee

Yeah so if anyone wants to take a crack on a good 1,000-1,500 point list I'd love to hear it!

What is the relationship like between Nurgle and VC?

In 40k Nurgle has zombies and undead, but in Fantasy they don't.

Nurgle hates undead
Undead are like "who the fuck he is?"

Why does Nurgle hate the undead when he uses them in 40k?

Chaos undead are different from necromantic undead.

because this is not 40k

Nurgle represents the fear of death, the mortal need to stay alive and keep things the same. Those with long life spans, elves and Slann, and those immune to disease, undead, have no relationship with Nurgle. While vampires do have a fear of 'true death' they are few compared to the armies they raise. In short, necromancy is anathema to Chaos, Nurgle in particular.

Correction.

Five generations.

Fucking. Five.

>Why does Nurgle hate the undead when he uses them in 40k?
Because as much as Warhammer Fantasy became increasingly inconsistent and nonsensical, finally taking a great big plunge with the End Times, and the Chaos Gods becoming increasingly one-dimensional and flanderized, it still wasn't as bad as in 40k, who suffered more from this far earlier on.

Nurgle is the closest thing to a general God of Life in the Chaos Pantheon, and he offers you perpetual living, albeit in a perpetual state of decay. It is not undeath, just not the life you wanted.

For reference, unless 40k has become even more unhinged than before, Plague Zombies are not undead. They're just undead-like, and the victims of a nurglesque disease. Generally speaking, if we stick to the basic themes and concepts, Chaos doesn't do undead. Real undeads don't do emotions or original thought, and the chaos gods absolutely do not get a boner out of them. In many ways, true undead are anti-chaos, in a similar way to the non-shitty necrons (as opposed to newcrons) in 40k.

>Those with long life spans, elves and Slann, and those immune to disease, undead, have no relationship with Nurgle.

I agree with everything except this. The Slann is a bit of an exception, because they are pretty much innoculated to Chaos, but anything with a long life-span is likely more afraid than anyone else to actually lose it, unless they've actually entered the state where they don't care anymore and slowly wither away (which is a very real problem to the elves of Ulthuan).

And as you describe, Nurgle is more than just disease, so even those that would somehow be immune to disease could still have a relationship to Nurgle. Technically anything that has something that they do not want to lose will have at least a miniscule relationship with Nurgle.

That said, completely agree aside from that and I'm probably just nit-picking.

>For all intents and purposes, it's not the same universe
Stop fucking lying to yourselves already, it's just sad. Just say that there are a few gongards in these specific threads on this Patagonian astral projection enthusiast forum who can't handle their man baby rage about a discontinued game they can easily still play and can't have anything not suiting their specific tastes coming into their safe space.
Your head canon and tastes and perception of what warhammer is "supposed" to be have absolutely no bearing on the actual published canon, no matter how many times you scream "AoS shill!" until you're blabbering incoherently and foaming at the mouth.

You don't want to talk about endtimes, don't. No one is forcing you to. Almost no one brings it up anyways. But being so fucking delusional that you think you get to be the thought police and control a universe you don't even put any creative input to is just pathetic and speaks volumes as to the "fans" gw was looking to get rid of in the first place

>inb4 shill

>Chaos doesn't do undead.

Except it does.
One of Nurgle's most famous Champions was Valnir the Reaper, who was undead.

I mention Slann since they are effectively immortal, so there is no fear of growing old and dying. It's why humans make such great necromancers. A story from the VC 6th edition book has a Necrarch vampire remarking that his human apprentice exceeded his expectations, likely because he had to succeed before he succumbs to old age. Elves also perceive time differently in addition to having long lifespans. They just don't have the same fear since if they fritter away a century or two they have a millenia to do whatever else they want.

When the vast majority of these Generals despises ET and AoS it clearly isn't 'one guy'

The undead don't have souls that can be reached directly by the chaos gods, so they all hate the undead. Nurgle hates them most because they're resistant to not just most of his diseases, but also the accompanying despair and fear of death.

A plague zombie created by a nurgle disease is reanimated through nurgle magic, and the soul has likely been given over completely to him. A true undead zombie has no soul, and is animated by magic bound fully on the material plane.

I made a quirky Imperial armour generator: orteil.dashnet.org/randomgen/?gen=http://pastebin.com/raw/iBWgaCt3

It's intended for wfrp, but you could use it to jazz up your Empire army if you don't mind a bit of free-hand.

They won't pay you per word, redshirt.

As far as I understand it, as long as they're bastards with noble parents, they're still noble and are entitled to certain privileges, though they'll probably have to make their own way in the world, or quietly be sent to some relative's castle. The spawn of a noble and a peasant would be stuck as an unusually handsome peasant, because now their nobility only goes back one generation because their other parent was not noble.

Thanks, yeah they come with the square ones. I have to look into it properly but if it was a shit army then I would just stick to painting what I felt like it, but they seem okay

Get out, shill. This has been explained to you repeatedly. We have a preference for Warhammer Fantasy, you enjoy End Times/Age of Smegmar. That's fine. We can enjoy them in different rooms. It's not stranger than that.

End Times and Age of Smegmar are excluded because they are not in the same setting, and thus to avoid confusion when discussing mutually exclusive aspects of the universes. Talk of both End Times and Age of Smegmar still crops up tangentially, every once in a while, and nobody has a problem understanding this other than you.

Practically nobody is upset over this but you. Stop being so autistic over the whole thing, user. Whatever they're paying you isn't worth your dignity.

40k undead are closer to the modern "infection zombies" type: practically living beings turned into mindless ravening hordes; fantasy undead are the proper type instead and undeath, while an anathema to the order of life, it's a kind of order by itself, a soulless one at it, something the chaos gods abhor.

I'm not sure what edition or game I'll actually be playing once I get my army painted up, so would it be a safe bet to base an armylist off of 8th Edition? I'd like to be able to safely switch to earlier editions, or 9th Age, or whatever ends up being used whereever I end up playing.

>One of Nurgle's most famous Champions was Valnir the Reaper, who was undead.
As far as I understand it, Valnir the Reaper wasn't really undead, but was resurrected and reanimated by Nurgle (or some aspect or daemon of Nurgle), and returned to life. This may very well seem like semantics in more ways than one, but it's an important distinction in a meta sense.

That being said, Valnir the Reaper was also (as far as I understand) an extremely early character, so he might've been created before the Chaos Gods really crystallized in their themes and natures.

Just report him for breaking Global #3 and ignore him. Eventually he goes away. He comes in and throws a tantrum every once in a while.

Depends on who you're playing with. If you can find a group or hobby store, ask which edition they play.

8th is the closer to 9th, all in all, except for lords and heroes, while the composition rules change between editions, you can safely translate an armylist to one edition to another with little problems.

on pixelated news: battle maps editor coming to total warhammer confirmed.

> necromancy is anathema to Chaos
Which becames even more clear when you realise Big E is basically a lich and he's most known miracles are necromancy

I'm not really a WFB player, but it might help if you tell us what Army you were going to do. It seems to me that in general, you should be fine, though. Might want to double-check certain special characters and warmachines.

All the army books and editions should be available on the mega: mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!JVw20QKC

>As far as I understand it, Valnir the Reaper wasn't really undead

No, he was undead.
Undead are just dark magic, which is literally what Chaos is. Undead are a natural occurrence in the Chaos Wastes.

>No, he was undead.
Source on that? I looked him up and it just said pretty much what I said.

>Undead are just dark magic
All magic is Chaos, this doesn't mean that actual undead are Nurglesque or something Chaos directs with any degree of will. Actually, being dead in many ways insulates you from most influences of Chaos.

I seem to recall that dead bodies gathers dhar. This is part of the reason why Strigoi and ghouls degenerate so much into beasts after sustaining on dead bodies.

>Source on that?

Champions of Chaos.

>All magic is Chaos

Correct.

>this doesn't mean that actual undead are Nurglesque or something Chaos directs with any degree of will.

Except they can and do.

Yeah, dhar amasses with decay and with the stagnancy of the winds of magic. So if the winds of magic can be considered the elements of creation in many ways, everything has a bit of it in them, and when they start dying or decaying, becoming stagnant, they sorta rot and meld together, forming Dhar.

It's part of why Dhar is so common at places of great slaughter or sadness (along with Shyish, obviously, but Shyish is more the passing itself).

>Champions of Chaos.
Since you're too sure of yourself or too lazy to double-check your claims, I did it for you.

So, yeah, not a real undead, but precisely what I found elsewhere; he's resurrected and reanimated by Nurgle. Explicitly. Repeatedly.

>So, yeah, not a real undead

>Died
>Brought back to life as a rotten corpse
>Is not undead

see
>Valnir the Reaper wasn't really undead, but was resurrected and reanimated by Nurgle (or some aspect or daemon of Nurgle), and returned to life. This may very well seem like semantics in more ways than one, but it's an important distinction in a meta sense.

After having this distinction explained, it was still claimed that he was undead. Which he isn't. His soul is all there. He's explicitly neither living nor dead. He is explicitly brought back to live as a Champion of Chaos, by Nurgle. He's practically a semi-daemonic entity that inhabits his old body. He's even got Regeneration for crying out loud! He's practically teeming with life.

He's basically the poster-child of nurglesque warpfuckery and how it differs from necromancy. This is something you'd blast with Hysh, not force to move on with Shyish. This is Daemonology, not Necromancy. Again, the distinction may seem largely as semantics, but in the metaphysics of the setting itself, it's an important difference, because Nurgle isn't a god of death and the realms of chaos gets exactly zilch out of undeads.

It's also why vampires drink blood. They get those fresh winds of magic through the blood. Strigoi consumes rotten blood and Necrarchs seldom drink blood and becomes a node that attracts dhar.

> His soul is all there.

Plenty of undead have souls.
Some are in fact nothing but souls.

>He's explicitly neither living nor dead.

Yeah, almost like he's some sort of undead.

>He's practically teeming with life.

So are most zombies. Valnir's mission is still to kill the living.

>This is something you'd blast with Hysh, not force to move on with Shyish.

Hysh is effective against undead.

>This is Daemonology, not Necromancy.

It's dark magic.

>Nurgle isn't a god of death

But he is. He's the eternal cycle of life and death. It's absolutely not a coincidence that many of his followers carry scythes

He's not a corpse walking around but a revived mortal.
The former is walking around despite being clearly dead, the latter stops being dead because his god finds it funny.

>He's not a corpse walking around but a revived mortal.

>Clearly stated that he is not alive.

Hysh is also used against daemons.

Yeah, it's almost like it's effective against dark magic or something.

in wfrp2 hysh is used against daemons and shyish against undead

>Hysh is effective against undead.
Only insofar it is effective against anything. Hysh deals primarily with daemons; Shyish deals primarily with death.

>It's dark magic.
You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that all dark magic is the same. It is not.

>But he is.
No, he's not a god of death at all.

>He's the eternal cycle of life and death.
No, the passing, the change of state from living to dead as well as from nothing to something, birth, is Tzeentch. Tzeentch is the god of passings, thresholds, movement from one state to another, and, fundamentally, change.

Nurgle is the exact opposite of that, seeking to preserve and stagnate, to protect and hold onto everything, forever. He's the one that comes to protect you in your despair and fears of loss. And Nurgle has nothing to do with cycles.

Arguably, the only cycle that exists is Chaos as a whole, the four Chaos Gods in concert. Tzeentch isn't cycles either, but would attempt to always break every cycle, to fundamentally change beyond the confines of any cycle, whereas Nurgle would want no cycle to occur at all, but to simply let it stand still and stagnate, for fear of loss and change.

>It's absolutely not a coincidence that many of his followers carry scythes
No, because Nurgle's season is autumn and the harvest, the stocking up and feasts, the slow decay of everything.

The scythe and sickle isn't for the extremely modernist interpretation of death. The setting was originally conceived largely by historians and people interested in history as well as fantasy enthusiasts, and this is just another aspect of that.

I'm not sure why, but it's a really common misconception that Nurgle is a god of the dead, or a god of death, rather than a god of the dying (along with a dozen or so other epithets), and it's a bit sad that it's become so ingrained that I think that it became part of GW:s flanderization of the Chaos Gods, almost making the idea self-perpetuating.

It's likely people confuse the 'fear of death' with 'god of death', thinking him like Morr, a god whose realm is where the dead go, whereas Nurgle plays on your fear of dying.

Exactly. I could even go so far as to say that Nurgle is a god of the DYING, but not of the dead or of death itself. And he'll keep you dying forever, if you would but ask for his protection. This need not be the end. Come and play with us. Forever.

>Only insofar it is effective against anything.

No.

>You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that all dark magic is the same. It is not.

it's dark magic plain and simple. Undead are a naturally occurring phenomena in dark magic heavy areas, as are daemons.

>No, he's not a god of death at all.

But he is. Hence the heavy use of reaper imagery.

>The scythe and sickle isn't for the extremely modernist interpretation of death.

Except it very much is as it's viewed through our very modernist eyes.
The Grim Reaper imagery was popularised during the black death, a notorious plague. Death and plague are very much interconnected in the human psyche, so while Nurgle is not limited to being a death god he very much bears that aspect.

>Plenty of undead have souls.
>Some are in fact nothing but souls.

I'm not exactly sure about this but I think none of the undead have souls, yes even the ghosts.

A living person is composed of 7 elements and what keeps all the ethreal alive is not soul but personality and individuality

The scythe is only to invoke fear, nothing more. Nurgle can't be a god of death because death is a naturally progression of life. Nurgle wants complete stagnation, nothing changes. It's why his arch rival is Tzeentch, a god that changes for the sake of it. You seem to be confusing 'god of death' with god that uses death imagery. The whole point of falling under his sway is because you DON'T want to pass on, you don't want the cycle of life and death to continue.

Morr is a god of death because he represents the natural progression, that life can't and shouldn't be eternal, that when you pass on you enter his realm to dream for eternity. It's why he hates necromancers so much, because not only do they stop the cycle they also rip others from their deserved rest.

Vampires souls are locked off from the Warp, they are the only beings truly free of Chaos.

Everything else is a construct made of various bits and animated by magic.