Warmachine / Hordes General - /wmhg/

Why do people like guardians anyway?

I feel like I'd rather have either an arc node or a melee heavy, not both in one. The revenger is perfectly serviceable and is faster.

Why not just bring like 7 Crusaders?

He's what you reach for if you want a second arc node and a heavy, but don't have 20pts for a Revenger and a Crusader. You can buy a lot with the spare 5pts, allegiants, maxing a unit, etc, just a nice option to have. Mat 7, reach and a high Pow on one war jack are also stellar selling points.

Didn't know there was one, but thanks for your help.

I think its alright, though the picture quality isn't great. (the painting threads have quick easy to understand guides for photographing models good.).

His face looks a little weird but I love the details on the lower body and dangly bits.

Getting back into minions after spazzing out over a perceived loss of faction identity with the merging of shoes and bacon.
Kinda loving it now, took a few games tonight with Helga, loads of posse and Gobber pirates slamming things towards me.
Gotta say, the despite Flying Circus getting murdered there's still plenty of shenanigans.

Well it's a prerequisite for passing.

No it isn't. It requires having two boxes painted of one system.

So I'm planning on building up my trollbloods battle box, and this is what I've come up with so far
conflictchamber.com/#b70p_-0bfL0j0h0i9D6R0k0m

Trollbloods Army - 24 / 25 points
Theme: The Power of Dhunia

(Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
- Troll Axer [10]
- Troll Impaler [11]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
Troll Whelps [0]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6]
- Stone Scribe Elder [3]
Where can I go from here? Maybe some different warcasters I could consider?

Oh, and I've also got a unit of Fennblades if that helps

Hey, I like the Warmahordes setting, but I'm having trouble finding stories, and the setting doesn't lend itself to the community creating fun fiction.

I was looking through the NQ contents list, but my eyes kinda glazed over at the endless rule releases that are now years out of date, and few stories (which I imagine would still be just as fluff relevant).

Is there anywhere in particular I should be looking for fluff and setting stuff?

Finally, has any company had a personal special magazine for just their products that was actually worth the paper?

In any No Quarter magazines, the Gavin Kyle stuff gives a decent amount of story on some of the key figures in the setting from the point of view of an information dealer.

Outside of that, I'd suggest just looking at the table of contents sections of them and looking for the parts that sound like they would actually be fluff related.

You could add a bomber and a knot to that list if you want to keep the same theme

Failing that, if you want to use your fenns, Madrak 2 is pretty money with them on feat turn and he likes your mauler and axer.
Thee's also grissel 2 with the impaler and bouncer since she likes having snipe around and someone to help ferry her to assassination range

Ive got a few questions, guys.
First: what is better, warmahordes or malifaux?
Second: why did Confrontation die?
Thank you for your answers.

Conjurer of weak baits

How's Madrak3? He looks neat.

Saves you a krielstone, doesn't do assassination runs as good as his other incarnations but would probably work pretty good in the champions and friends theme list so you'd want champions, warders and tuffalo

Does he really save you a Krielstone? I'd think the self aura would be nice, but is it really a replacement?

Depends on the enemy, what you'll miss is the elder as opposed to the stone itself
Madrak 3 is pretty unlike the other madraks, the other madraks supported, but were primarily assassination locks, madrak3 has it the other way around

1) One is a wargame, the other is a skirmish. Which of those do you prefer? Or in other words: What is better, Apple or Banana?
2) I hear it had pretty miniatures and shit rules. Then it lost the former and kept the latter.

I'd recommend grabbing anything you think looks cool.
Look and feel dictate a troll army even harder than most factions imo due to their even more than most varied visually and thematically model line. If you like guns they have a guy or two who can rock those. If you prefer medieval combat you can run that. They even have a warcaster who specializes in circle-esque douchy movement shenanigans.

I'm a fan of Trollkin Champions
Part of the problem with trolls is that they love infantry in the edition where everything and its mom can kill infantry. Khador at least had their uniquely horrifying warjacks to fall back on.

Personally I'd like to run a brick with champs and some other infantry piece to anvil with em.

I feel like trollkin infantry is there to die and buy time for their beast to murder the important things and ignore everything else.

To be fair, Warmachine also runs skirmish level. And unlike GW games it actually holds up as a fun game at that level.

How does it compare to Malifaux? Does Malifaux also have singular defining leader models? Is it more freeform? Based on your answer it seems you feel the both serve very different needs as games. Care to elaborate on that difference? As they are both similar in that they are pulpy settings with stylized factions and the players choose to collect models of a given faction to pit their force against another player.

>Whoa bruh personal space
>I'M FUCKING PISSED

They do serve very different needs in that Malifaux is way more objective-focussed, while Warmachine has more emphasis on attrition. Malifaux also has no unit rules and activations alternate between both players. I personally think they have very different appeal though I consider both excellent.

Both do however revolve around a central miniature (WMH: Warcaster/Warlock, MA: Master), but there is no such thing as an assassination victory (usually).

See your post here has all sorts of tantalizing info. Gets me all hot and bothered thinking about alternating play. Only game I've played like that is battletech. And battletech has...issues.

What issues?

Rules for everything. So many modifiers. The two army balance systems don't really work. Oh the charts, so many charts. It's cool as a casual game that takes a day tho

Alright gents I haven't played since MK2, and I barely got 6 games in with it before people started getting salty around my meta. I've had the itch to restart recently but nothing is grabbing me thus far except for the alt ashlynn model.

What does she need to be good?
Are there definite weak points to her I should be concerned about?
Does she have a theme list this time round?

Also what's the deal with Karchev? His entire kit while still revolving around jacks seems to have changed since the last time I saw him.

He is a toolbox that asks no questions, has answers to everything but the answers are too weak to be called a counter and has no feat. You will need the krielstone anyway because he doesnt have elder powers and want to spend most of his fury anyway, so it means that a big chunk of his ability allowance is dead.

Anybody remembers the rumors that ragnor is going to be large based? Such a shame he turned out not to be. If he was he would balance out having three lights in the battlebox and would open an interesting list building possibility (considering how most large based casters have nonstandard gamestyles).

Thanks. I tend to not give a fuck about faces, but I was going for the horrified look, hence the mouth full of black shit. The highlights came out super well though. I posted it on a UK painting group and someone said they hope their own Willbreaker comes out even half as well. Aww yiss.

More like a noob actually.
But i was thinking of selling my WMH army as i find Malifaux rather more visually appealing. Lore-wise aswell.
Asked the question because i have 4 factions of WMH and yet i find it so hard to make my friends play a game or two with me in a 2v2 or at least 1v1.
While malifaux interested them very much. Also more balanced. Yet i like the wargames and want to play them.
Well i got your answer about Confrontation and you actually answered my question about malifaux and WMH. Thank you.

Wut

Wrong thread, meant it for a Chinese comic thread.

Few good sources for all the fluff:

- all the non-faction book releases going back to Mk1 have a significant amount of fluff. See if you can find em cheap used, or check out the OP for links.

- The RPG books are actually a great concentrated source of setting fluff. Books for both the old and new system are great, though obviously the new ones are more up to date with the wargame... Kings, Nations, Gods in particular covers all the WM factions in detail.

>How does it compare to Malifaux?
WMH and Mali have a somewhat different flavor, but they're very close relatives on the wargame family tree. The biggest divergence is probably that Malifaux is alternating activations. WMH tends to have more miniatures in the game at "full" size - 25-40 on average compared to Malifaux's 8-15. But they both build their forces around one superpowered leader model, both use unit stat cards, both use a "stat + random vs target number" resolution system, have units with a lot of special rules and moves, use points-scoring based scenarios, etc.

Each of them does some things better than the other. If you like one of the systems, good chance you'd find things to like in the other as well.

Why? Being on a larger base is only ever a negative. Easier to draw LoS, harder to move between models / terrain...

Not to say there couldn't be a large based version of Ragnor that worked, but it would have to look very different from the cards we got.

T-minus 6 days, where my Circle Christmas spoilers at?

I think we won't get them before Monday.

Tomorrow only if we are real lucky.

Just make him whoopass style like eKromac. Replace his spells with some battlegroup buff, control range infantry buff and shockwave stays. Crank his stats a bit up so he can go frontline. Gets less battlegroup points and six fury. Ability that grants a fluffy bonus to ff models with magic ability. Feat improves spellcasting and heals models within control range.

Malifaux is a true skirmish game, and is more heavily dependent on objectives. I often make the comment to players that you can build a crew that runs schemes and never actually have to play the killing game.

Warmahordes is still at it's heart a wargame where the objective is usually "Welcome to hamburger hill"

Before, I would have said Warmahordes was a superior game in every aspect. Now, I'd say;

>Miniature Quality: Malifaux
>Theme: Malifaux
>Rules: Tie
>Balance: Warmahordes
>Unique: Malifaux
>Community: Malifaux

Warmarhordes probably still has the best balance but boy they sure tried to fuck that up with Mk 3.

Warmahordes is currently about spam lists so I don't think it's winning any awards for balance.

Except when said spam lists keep losing to Cryx, despite it being the "worst faction the game".

>Slayer
>10pts
>MAT7
>3 initials at PS16
>2 open fists
>SPD6
Name a warbeast that even comes close to this unmitigated bullshit.

What's the community opinion on all-out kitbashes? I understand some people have an aneurysm at using the wrong colour scheme, so anything that's likely to get me kicked out of a tourney is bad news.

Pic related is Moros. Moros is very pretty.
Every other Ret 'Jack looks like ass. If Mk2 tactics are still a thing, I probably want to invest in a lot of Griffons.

Would it be acceptable to buy a whole bunch or Moroi, splice some spears/shields/helmets onto them, and run them all as Griffonspam?

Assuming that the cost of bitz is not an object, how workable is this for something like a large-scale Warmachine event?
Similar questions for using Imperatus as a heavy base.

Rotterhorn

That looks like a fuck

>Rotterhorn
>7 point
>2 intials POW 10
>light

Are you even trying ?

Depends entirely on your tournament organizer.
I TO locally and I don't care what models you use as long as it's clear what is happening.
No weapons that don't belong, if they have a shield rule, give them a shield on the model etc.

Have a player that plays Ret with a bunch of Wood elf models and another that plays tharn using a bunch of Beastmen.

Do not count on a TO being cool with it tho, I notice alot of asshurt from purists.

Yes but you are wrong, because Cryx players say that the Slayer is the worst heavy ever made in both systems, because it loses systems to shooting.

And you can't argue with a Cryx players now, can you?

Zuriel.

100% legal. Griffon is the only ret jack with a spear and shield, hell the only one with either of them, so there is no mistaking.

This. It'd be a pretty rad conversion since, yeah, most Warmahordes models are ass.

If they put half as much effort into their regular models as they did their character warnouns then they'd look fine.

>Quality
GW hands down. They are, after all, a miniatures company first and foremost :^)
>Lore / Aesthetic
Malifaux's lore is really all over the place and poorly tied together. A lot of it boils down to "it happens because mystery" which is shite storytelling.
>Rules
Warmahordes hands down. The movement rules on many Malifaux cards leave just about every model able to zip around the battle field, making positioning all but useless. Not to mention with the way the rules and objectives work, you might as well not bending models at all, since the actions and positions of your soldiers matter so much less than what's on their stat cards.
>Balance
Warmahordes.
>Unique
I mean, you got me there. It's unique but so is any other poor mishmash of genres.
>Community
"Not tabletop games" would be the right answer

>Quality
GW. No real comparison.

>Lore
Mostly who cares, but, honestly, GW. WHFB is bland as fuck, sure, but 40k's lore is actually entertaining because it doesn't take itself seriously.

>Aesthetic
Everyone does some things well and some things poorly.

>Rules
WMH no question.

>Balance
WMH no question. WMH right now is second only to 40k at the very start of 3e in balance (note to the gamers without grey hair: 40k 3e had army lists for every faction in the back of the main rulebook, and because it had rules for all factions, none of them had any special rules, so it was bland as fuck, but it was balanced). There are still problems, but it's still excellent compared to... just about everything else.

>Unique
Who gives a fuck.

>Community
We're cancer, they're cancer, everyone is cancer.

pretty much this
Its really neat the degree to which you track your mecha breaking down, and falling down, but everything has a chart it corresponds to. Also the army system is hyper freeform. Its literally just take the same tonnage of mechs. Also the fights can start to feel grindy as your forces both become increasingly unable to fight and turtling can be quite strong (Even more so than warmachine.)

Wow is it just me or are those new Legion models really ugly.

Being the only person that not just likes wmh models but prefers them to GW feels weird. I am normally quite critical but outside of old models I cant think of anything with glaring issues.

I prefer WMH too, a lot of GW stuff just looks really samey to me, and space marines just look stupid also.

Trump will end competitive spam lists.

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Yup. Still like the model on the left better. It has nicely done hands amd face and the armor is awesome. The pose really wonky though. The mini on the left is well sculpted but the design has that oldschool vibe from times when nerds couldnt afford good artists (think 80s comic books or first entries in blizzard franchises). The thingy he is standing on is atrocious though.

The model on the right looks like straight ass to me. Way too busy with details, can't make heads or tails of it's face or head, and the base looks absolutely terrible.

The one on the left isn't amazing but is decent if boring. The pose is a little wired though.

Guys. Eyeless sight means you see better, not suffer blind.

I can't tell if that thing on the left is supposed to be a centaur or a retarded dragonspawn with a nyss for a head

Unironically it's both

The model on the right is a bit busy but ok.

The model on the left looks like a fucking awful conversion.

I think I see the problem here, user. That's not a Legion model, it's a opossum.

Also, fuck you, opossums are adorable.

/thread

That said, a giant opossum warbeast would be sweet.

It's weird to say but, I think GW models have become super over designed in a bad way.

Yeah, the actual quality of the models are better (better cast with finer details) but the design is not my jam.

I actually like Kallus2. He isn't something I would criticize as "bad." I would point to a lot of the Skorne "big head mode" models or the Animanterax model. Also the new Feora is just kind of boring and chunky. Then of course you have Brickhouse who, while not a bad model, has the weirdest ass pose.

Honestly, a lot of WMH models seem to have okay sculpts but bad poses. A lot of the basic infantry isn't great either. Honestly though, design wise, I think most of it is alright.

Worst offender for me is Despoiler and the sculptor of him basically said he was rushed through it. That said, I do find that a lot of WMH models are actually way better in person than on their website. I don't know if they have a shitty photographer or what.

Play Una2.

This. I mean, just compare these Age of Sigmar Khorne dudes with the good old Chaos Warriors.

One design is shitted to death with thousands of horns and evil faces, making it forgettable chaos-chaff in the GW miniature pallet, while the other is a classic that will forever hold up as a perfect design.

This isn't really an excuse or anything for that PG user, but I've come to find that a lot of PG's really don't like teaching the game. Like, at local tournies and conventions, when the job for running demo's comes up, nobody ever wants to do it. They'd rather TO tournies, or run whatever various task there is, but for the most part they absolutely avoid teaching the game.

I don't really know why. I'm a PG, and I've always loved teaching the game. It's always satisfying to see someone process how the game works and slowly form their own strategies and testing them out.

Then again, I see the same attitude in a lot of games. Our local infinity meta is similar. Teaching new folks the game is low priority, it's all about having tournaments. Not really much to be done about it. Hell, journeyman leagues are fun, but I guess not when you're a veteran player. Not being able to field your own personal list robs all fun out of the game, so we have awful turn outs so journeyman leagues stopped happening.

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We DEF skewing, BOYZ

That's a very good spell list...

Looking at her Feat, she might end up being an assassination machine.

I am glad she doesn't have any threat extension. Not that Circle actually needs it.

Stalkers with Sprint+Reposition [3"] are going to be annoying as fuck.

Kneejerk reaction:

We knew mounted, Repo 3, FM: Repo 3, Synergy, and basically what the feat was.

Mildly disappointed that she has heavy cav Reposition and speed but light cav ARM, but I spent a lot of Mk2 dealing with Morv2's 15/15.

Fog of War is great, given how much Circle shit has prowl.

Blood Spiller is... as good of a zot as could be expected, and with Fog of War bark nodes are a lot more survivable, so she'll get to use it.

Soothing Song is really good paired with Synergy.

Overall: Solid A/A+ caster. I don't think she's as good as Una2 (or Amon, for that matter), but looks to have enough builds to be a tournament pairing for most competitive Circle warlocks.

She is a love-child between Amon and Harkevich, only that she lost a speedbuff (probably for being in Hordes).

Circle does have Blackclad Wayfarers who have Hunters Mark. So, she has threat extension if she needs it.

I am more worried about her or her armies ability to feat and go through your whole army to kill your caster with +3/+3 Mat and Dmg.

At the very least it looks like they still can't declare charge targets they can't see like Testament can.

Still a good as caster though.

>Circle gets 2 Una2s
you know what I think I'm done

>werewolves

I dunno, where?

Meh, she's weaker than Una2. Doesn't change much.

Spitballing Kaya3 lists.