/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

What was it in the Pack? I didn't know that book even acknowledged it. I have it just to have, but haven't read it yet.

So its bootleg uninspired reality then?

Just like the actual game. :^)

What do you expect of gypsies?

I just don't get his logic that the gods stay the same between their heyday and now when many of them changed so much even back then.

All I care about is the Incarnate rules from the Companion.

Can't some types of beasts still get by with just vandalism or burglary or engaging in really bad sportsmanship, or did that change at some point in development?

Pretty much.
But that's like trying to get by on a small pack of assorted nuts.

They can. They'll be not very well fed, and their Soul will go on horrific, dream rampages that will bring mind scarring nightmares and draw heroes to their location, but they can.

>Shoot on sight
>Look like normal people up to and including children apparently

>All I care about is the Incarnate rules from the Companion.
Can't play Incarnates without the main rules to run them with.

Kill everyone, just to be sure.

Well, yeah. Here's hoping they fix up the Nether because that first draft was abysmal. And the Gallic and Canaanite Pantheons should both be really fucking fun.

They should do historical settings someday.

Especially the children.

Do you want slashers? Because that's how you get slashers.

So has anyone shared Night horrors: Conquering heroes?

Spoiler, the new type antagonist they offer are Beasts that are insatiable, called Insatiables and they hunt beasts. Oooooo, so cool. They're beasts that beast more beastly than beasts.

...

Lemme guess.... they're evil and bad with absolutely no self awareness that maybe the Beasts themselves are the least redeemable splat of all time?

>Hunters looks at a Beast
>"Should I care?"

>Hunters looks at a Hero
>"Just going to stay out of his way"

that or are even more misunderstood and disenfranchised and opposing one makes your beast just as terrible and irredemable as a hero becasue you could have just LET them eat you, you filthy evil racist

In some ways I like this better than them outright hating them. They are seen as unimportant, irrelevant, and unworthy of anyone's time much like their game line.

Honestly man I didn't really read much into them once I saw that, "Oh, beasts that double beast. A less intresting Strix, cool."

If i recall correctly, their biggest supporters were the Nephandi, the Technocrats used to support them, but Pearl Harbor happened. Some European Get joined in.The Sabbat ghouled Himmler and made him into a Tremere,Goering was vamped, but i don't know which clan. No idea on the other splats. Other than it couldn't have been the gypsies.

I imagine it's more of a sliding scale. Like a Autumn changeling. or a vampire. Physiological distress on one person over and over again is kind of fucked up. It's also a little hard to prove. and raises questions that will make some hesitate as they come to a conclusion. But a beast regularly causing collateral damage or kidnapping and or hurting folks, Puts them right on top of the shit list.

A Hero on the other hand is more awkward. All she/he wants to do is kill beasts. shurgs maybe direct them to worst of the worst first, and then just kind of stay out of his way let him do his own thing. unless they can get something out of cooperation like the Silversmith

Is the Grandmother stronger than God?

Problem is that Heros will drag other normal people down into the shit fest just to make their chances better of killing the beast, and that isn't guranteed. So they're possibly huge sources of collateral damaged and dead community memebers.

Grand Maw is probably not stronger than god, since you know, God/The creator is fucking strong.

>normal people
that's like saying mages cause collateral damage because they have cults. it's not exactly a big difference

Well, gunning down wizards is at least theoretically a thing Hunters often like to do, so "Mages are just as bad" doesn't seem like an argument against Hunters disapproving.

I'm fairly certain there's a whole book about hunters hunting 'Witches', so you know. Also most mage cults don't -actually- go into hell dimensions to hunt monsters.

That's not how burden of proof works user. The game material presented to us claims that he is dead, as according to Time of Thin Blood; therefore it is up to you, the one who makes the positive claim, to prove this false by providing quotes, citations and proof for your stance.

the point being having followers is no different than mages having cults or vampires having retainers. as far as I'm concerned they signed up for it

I think for hunters, though, deliberately putting even-less-comprehending normies in the line of fire is usually used as an example of going off the deep end.

Has Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes been shared?

You sound like someone not far from going Slasher user, you know people being manipulated by the monsters should be saved, not just allowed to be butchered right?

Halp! I've got an hour to make a ghost for a Mage Ascension game and I've never played the system before. What books do I need?

So I know in Ascension using magic is a supposed to be a very focused on how you "do" your magic, coming up with cool little rituals and stuff for all your spells but I'm going to be picking up Awakening 2e soon and I'm wondering if it does the same thing.

Because from what I've read they've kind of narrowed down the paradigm equivilents down to 5 (I expect I'm missing something).

I haven't been following OPP's releases closely for while now, but how is Lost 2e looking?

Seemings are less important and less intresting now, everything else looks good. It'll be out summer, maybe, hopefully.

Like it's been mauled be a rabid David Hill.

Legacies are sort of the equivalent you can tailor it to what flavor mage you want to be.

The new Contract system is nice. Everything else though...

How is magic handled before you have a legacy? If I remember correctly getting a Legacy is like putting on your big boy shoes in Mage.

Much improved.

you purposely confusing the narrative of me caring about what a grown ass adults do with themselves, apparently storming the castle. and me gunning down innocents for no reason.

Followers aren't metaphysically enforced to follow heroes, they just are. much like heroes themselves. They choose to follow. Are you also concerned with what grown adults do in the behind closed doors?

That's a moral call. and I'll point out. Hunters were once less then comprehending normies when they started too. How is this any different?

First open mage the awakening. play awakening. It already has the death arcane

Oh no, I wasn't doing it on purpose, I misunderstood which way you where coming from. I apologize.

Hill's been taking a great big steaming dump on it from the bits they've shown off so far, and there's no telling how big the shit pile will end up being by the time it releases.

I'm told we'll be playing Ascension, not Awakening.

The death Arcana doesn't help you play a ghost, that's influence/numina and dread powers. You either fall 'spirit' generation or you handle it like a true charecter creation in nWoD, though as far as I know the only place you handle it as a real charecter is Mummy.

Going to have to disagree with you there.

Eh, paradigms are different to paths.
Those each correspond to one of the 5 Supernal Realms from which Mages can draw their power.
Those provide you with a perspective on Magic which you interpret in certain ways, and determine your Ruling (easy to cast) Arcana (for which each Path has two, one overt like Space, and one subtle like Mind).

Now, your Mage can interpret that any way they like, but their attitude towards Magic and what they can do will be shaped by their path.
However you can still learn other Arcana, and be just as proficient as any other Path with enough training, and rotes/praxes.

Mages don't need anything to cast. Full stop. They can snap their fingers and try to summon a Ghost from the Underworld. However that's hard. So they instead learn and use Yantras, which call upon the symbols of the Fallen world to bestow them with power from the Supernal.
So they might hold a Candlelight Vigil while summoning the Ghost, with an item it cared for during life, while burning its corpse's Bones.

Similarly, Mages can further enhance certain paths of spellcasting through taking on Shadow Names, or joining Legacies.
e.g.
A Mastigos joins the Legacy of The Strangers, who hide their identities to avoid Fate catching ahold of them. When casting while fully obscured, they can use that as a Yantra.

An Obrimos (Celestial Mage, Forces and Prime) might take the Shadow Name "Seraph", and Angel of Fire. Which means they can gain a bonus when casting any spell in the manner of a Seraph, such as using Forces to take flight, to burn sinners with fire, or to use Prime to ensure people know you speak Truth.

In Mage, you build your own mystic identity more. You're not calling upon a perspective in the consensus, you're accumulating your own array of symbols reflected in the Supernal.

Somewhat improved, a few decreases in quality. Seemings are worse and pledges have been butchered, but the contracts are better.

Oh no, I wasn't doing it on purpose, I misunderstood which way you where coming from. I apologize.

Whoops, sent that to the wrong person first time, fuck me.

A Legacy is your coming of Age.
It's you displaying to the world how you really want to use your Magic, a commitment.
So you might join the Stone Scribes, who seek to catalogue the Final Names of the dying.
Or the Tamers of Fire, who impassion the hearts of mankind, and wield elemental Fire.
They provide potent abilities.
You can also create your own.

Before your Legacy, you're kind of raw. Undecided.
You can do anything in your purview, cast anything.
Even after you've joined a Legacy, you can still do that.
You're just likely better at your Legacy's stuff.

Your Path is where your Magic comes from.
Your Order is your mystical Philosophy.
Your Legacy is a commitment to how you will apply your Magic.

I'm told I should be using Wraith to build the character, except I'm unsure how to make a character that wont turn out to be crap. Any pitfalls I should be aware of?

Well, yes technically wraith is the place to start in oWoD if you wanna build a ghost, it's the game all about playing them. Sadly I never got to play Wraith, sorry. I'm waiting for the 20th anniversary edition to come out before I get into it.

A small problem is that Wraiths aren't -really- supposed to be interacting with mortals from what I know and you need illegal (in universe) powers to even effect people in the flesh.

You miiiight be better off asking the OPP Wraith forums, since it's not Veeky Forums and your more likely to have people that have played the game give you advice instead of people here telling you to play nWoD or be cunts. Of course they're slower on OPP so... Sorry man.

I've only played ascension once so I barely remember the terminology. A legacy is seen as maturing in your magic in pentacle society. It confers a bunch of benefits like an additional ruling arcana, an additional source of mana, and attainments which are essentially paradox free spells.

So two mages can share path, order, arcana only differing in their legacies and they will play radically different. I kind of liken it to a mage's 'religion'. It's how they choose to practice their magic will they be using appalacian hoodoo, some form of hermetic sorcery, techno-sorcery, etc.

Thanks user(s), you really helped clear things up.

I'm definitely going to have get used to the fact that the concensus isn't a thing.

Don't worry, you have gnosticism to get you through the Lie of it all

Well, the consensus is still around, sort of, in the form of the Lie. The Lie serves the same purpose of keeping Mages down and magic hidden from normies, and it was created by the Exarchs, who fill the role of the oppressors in Awakening as opposed to the Technocracy in Ascension. The biggest difference is that you don't work magic with just your own personal consensus anymore. As the other anons explained you work it through your Path to the Supernal Realms.

So I want to get into V:TM lore. What oWoD books should I read and avoid? For instance, I heard Kindred of the East was garbage.

fair mistake user. I should have been more clear. that one is on me. lets both agree mistakes were made. no hard feelings

Read the old testament and pretend every other person has fangs or something.

>An Obrimos (Celestial Mage, Forces and Prime) might take the Shadow Name "Seraph", and Angel of Fire
I am guilty of playing this character

Why did the exarch let humanity get as advanced as it's become?

They don't care about technology. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they helped it along. The more humans learn about science and whatnot, the convinced they become that it's all there is to the world. It enforces the Lie.

Actually science specifically does not enforce the lie. Blind acceptance of "expert opinions", pseudoscience, and anti-intellectualism all feed the lie.

In fact several factions in the Free Council believe that science might be a way to backdoor the lie and effectively turn everyone into sleepwalkers since it will be impossible to tell the difference between magic and hyper advanced technology.

I know Trent, pity you can't play.

I wasn't singling out science per se as enforcing the Lie, I meant the kind of people who see it as all there is to the world and flat out deny the existence of anything remotely supernatural. I could have been more clear about that, sorry.

I also don't want to sound like I'm shitting on scientifically minded people because I'm actually one of the people who flat out denies the existence of anything supernatural.

No its fine, one of the reasons that I prefer nMage is that it's free of Brucato's brain damage ramblings about the evils of the modern world. It embraces science and makes it one of the possible avenues to supernal truth rather than the source of all human ills. That it can be corrupted by the Exarchs to reinforce the lie in various ways makes it no more unusual than their corruptions of faith, economics or natural instinct.

You must remember that each gameline has their own version of a supreme being. God isn't necessarily stronger than an Archmage in Ascension, the Triat isn't necessarily stronger than God in Masquerade. Likewise, The Grand Maw is supreme in Wraith. You need to fill in the blanks when you initialize crossover.

The same can be said of CofD with the God-Machine, Exarchs, Gaia and The Principle.

Sawll good mate :)

Is that why the bad guys in Ascension are essentially super scientists? Is it Brucato shoving in a great big hamfisted metaphor for how science is supposedly keeping humanity down?

Kinda. In the earliest edition that was the case but as it progressed it tried to make them sympathetic.

It's the age old Freedom vs Wellbeing thing.

Basically, the Technocracy was written in a more sympathetic light later on but Ascension never really shook it's anti-science roots.

Propoganda. It's all propoganda.
Also they're only "bad" so far as they're semi-corrupt, and prefer safety, security and well regulated and controlled change to the elitist chaos of the Traditions.

In the earliest editions, they were kind of just paradox spirits. MIBs open the door to the chantry and pull you in their van for abusing your magic. or at least that's how I remember their write up. They did get expanded. I just don't know when

My bad then.

UP-AND-COMING COMPACT: TOMB RAIDERS
One collection of hunter cells is in the process of becoming a full-fledged Compact. These Reclaimers, or Tomb Raiders as some jokingly call them, specialize in robbing Beast lairs. They believe Beasts pull the bricks and mortar of their lairs from the collective human subconscious, and they aim to steal them back. Their philosophy states that as these fundamental human strands collectively weaken the species when not in human hands. Now, this doesn’t mean they attempt to return these strands to their original owners; they believe it’s their right to steward these lost threads.

While they don’t have inherent membership advantages, they do have a single secret, an important secret: They’ve found a way to fnd and open gateways to these lairs. This doesn’t mean they’re naturally able to traverse these lairs; an underwater palace is still under water. But this first step confounds many hunters, and Reclaimers don’t have that concern.

They’re not quite a true Compact yet; their network just doesn’t have the resources and support necessary to afford rank-and-fle members any measurable advantages. This is changing every night, though. With every lair raided, they get closer and closer

I honestly kinda like this, the Mortal Remians: Beast, has seem'd pretty good so far.

It's the first step to what I really want.
A Hunter Compact about raiding the Temenos.

Wasn't the Grandmaw some kind of anti-god/reverse-god/god's sister?

I bet she's a fucking hot slut though

I don't think there was much question that Beasts make great antagonists, which is why I am waiting with baited breath for someone to share the pdf.

Scion forums edgelord has progressed to "if you're going to have your Scion characters not be shunned for being gay then you may as well have nobody react to them being a baby-eating peychopath."

Why do I go to these forums, again?

I hope Hunter 2e is full of stuff like this.

Also for those wondering, The Dream Warriors are in the Mortal remains thing for beast.

The other two hunter groups they get is based around Support groups that brings us this gem:

"They questioned the monsters and found that many of these Beasts believed they were teaching through pain, fear, and tribulation. While the group acknowledges that agenda, they wholeheartedly reject it. Yes, a person can find strength from pain. But the results of the pain are still very real. You may find strength in losing an arm in a war. That’s more than made up for when you no longer have a hand to use, or when you wake up in tears because of the trauma. People can learn without pain. No man, no Beast has the right to “teach” without a student’s consent."

The other group is... Well, it started out from a Survivalist SovCit compound that got raided by a beast and mostly destroyed... By the Hero that killed the beast. In present day they hunt Heros, seeing them as idiots that try to stop the things that teach humanity their follies and are signs of divinity. Kinda weird to see a hunter group that doesn't hunt only the splat, but the splats antagonist as well.

They both get buttfucked into oblivion by an Arete 10 Archmage.

Shoo, we're talking about hunter throwing shade at Beast now

Oh and to make the joke more clear, that second group is called 'The Reckoning', they're isolationst fundementalist people that kill monsters. Trump even paid for one of their mebers legal fee's.

God bless America!

>The Dream Warriors are in

Yes! Mortal Remains: Beast confirmed for best Beast book.

What if I want to be pathless, orderless and legacyless?