Find a new group of players

It's THE ONLY MEANINGFUL MEASURE. If you are measuring anything else, you aren't measuring the game meaningfully.

No, you DOLT, I don't mean it's not MEANINGFUL AS A MEASURE, I mean it can't be MEANINGFULLY MEASURED

Or... Now hear me out here... Or, it is one of a variety of measures and a very important one IMO!

I have some groups who gauge their enoyment (not necessarily fun, per se) out of Shakespeare in the park-esque Roleplay.

Now, it's not fun, so much as a sort of satisfaction with a job well done, and that's fine!

Just that as a hobby we need to stop slinging absolutes around when really we all mean something along the lines of "I believe that..." Or "in my opinion"

The problem with assuming people automatically apply that in text is that humans use a lot more than just words in communication. So much is lost in text, things you think are obvious or nuanced are (often) imperceptible short of an outright statement.

It is however a consistent issue with rpg gamers. Even over and above vidya imo.

You're not just a narcissist, you're a sociopath. Fun is great. I'm sorry that you can't experience it. You should probably just kill yourself.

Now everyone can be an asshole. Together!

Damn tg.

>Just that as a hobby we need to stop slinging absolutes around when really we all mean something along the lines of "I believe that..." Or "in my opinion"
No you're wrong and gay. You need to do exactly the opposite, Start ASSUMING everyone is saying that preceding every post and stop getting triggered every time someone doesn't. Because it doesn't fucking matter. ALSO stop being a marxist SUBJECTIVIST cumstain who thinks all stances, beliefs, ideals can only be nothing more than an opinion equal to any other. Sometimes we can state our beliefs with a LITTLE certitude and that's fucking okay

FUN CAN'T BE MEASURED YOU HIPPIE

Fun means something you enjoy doing. If you're enjoying what you're doing, you're having fun.

See, that wasn't hard.

Fun means the activity alone, without the use of intoxicants, causes your brain to release endorphins which cause you to feel "happy"

>itt: spot the /a/spie

I'd argue /v/. "Fun is a buzzword/meme/whatever" has been a meme on /v/ for years.

It can be. It can't be directly quantifiably measured.

You'd "enjoy yourself" more you were doing lines and making out, it doesn't mean it's a good session. Or just going into a big circle jerk, I don't mean ERP, I mean literally getting together to sit down and stroke each other off under the table, in a big circle, maybe roll some dice with your free hand for kicks. If "enjoying yourself" really was just your measure of, say, good DM'ing, then you'd seek out exclusively child players - though I don't doubt that your existing table is mentally so, if that actually is the intellectual limit to your engagement in the hobby.

Not only is "fun" extremely relative to context of the group and situation with little relevance to the mechanical game itself, maintaining a steady supply of dopamine hits is one of the most base & depressing goals anyone could have regarding the RPG medium. cuck.

>anime reaction images
>pretentious attitude and similarly annoying writing style

There's considerable overlap but I'm still going with /a/spie.

...

You are undertaking a game wherein you pretend to be a magical creature who has legendary adventure in a place that doesn't exist. To simulate this you spend hours learning rules, writing sheets, and researching. This gives you no benefit besides that enjoyment or satisfaction you derive from playing.
It is not an intellectual pursuit. No one has achieved enlightenment, cured cancer, or fundamentally changed life for the common man by playing an rpg and eating cheetos.
Fun is the end goal. You are trying to make your fun hobby seem like more than a fun hobby. Which means your fun hobby is actually a sad hobby. Reevaluate.

Fun is not a binary state. You can have a little fun or a lot of fun.

...

It's quite sad to see how distant all culture, beyond the most base distraction (distraction, I can only assume, from whatever sorry life you lead), has been from you that you've come to believe intellectual pursuits exist only as those that would help "achieve enlightenment, cure cancer, or fundamentally change life for the common man." If your goal was to achieve pity from me, you have won, and if your goal was to teach my dark heart the meaning of guilt for forcing you to dredge up your sordid and deprived situation and lay it bare for all of Veeky Forums to see, you've won twice over.

>Find a new group of players
>They are all pretty cool
>First game is great
>Group dissolves due to "life"
>Spend a few months to find a new group
>Repeat

Its happened six times now in a row. I'm starting to just not care anymore. Its disheartening finding a good group for it to just up and poof.

well, as long as you are having fun as a player it isn't so bad. Maybe ask your GM if they are cool with you running a one shot one week just so you can get that sweet GM rush.

Actually the original response was referring to "cuck".

Oh, I said that because the "fun is all that matters" meme is a very lefty tenet that's a mainstay in a certain segment of the modern TTRPG (and other 'nerd' mediums, videogames for example) community - a segment made of people you'd normally see described as cucks or numales. I call it lefty because it relies on dual assumptions of relativism and subjectivism that are marxist in origin (specifically in regards to art theory). It's also undeniably twinkish.

Jesus fuck. I think I lost IQ points just reading this thread. You all should join hand-in-hand and leap off a tall building. Quit wasting my resources.

This is the most autistic thing i've read on this fucking webside.

I became a foreverGM the same way. It's more fun to know the game will be run well than to be stuck in a game with someone who doesn't really know how to do it. I never understood the "boohoo forever DM" complaints because I've honestly never had that much fun as a player. and if i do then the game ends way too soon :(

...

what is your life like

Tthe plural of medium is media, you faux-intellectual blowhard.

In this thread we see two camps with differing definitions of the word "fun". One camp, which seems to be exclusively one person, is probably an ESL individual due to his reliance on a single word as a derogatory remark and he's clearly schewed opinion on the definition of the word "fun". You see, fun is not defined as happiness. Nor is it define as glee, dopamine, smiles, or joy. Fun is a sense of satisfaction from an activity. You can have fun and not be happy. You can have fun while being terrified, angry, sad, or any other emotion. You can have fun with someone you love or someone you hate. Fun is not happy slappy giggle times, it's just enjoying what you are currently doing. Anyone who thinks fun is solely the result of dopamine reactions is literally, and I do use the word correctly, LITERALLY an autist

Yeah it can, you just gotta know how to do it. There is obviously things that are more or less fun than other things so all you have to do is take something that is fun, something that is more fun, something that is not fun, and something that is even less fun, then find the factors that make certain things more or less fun. With a little extra work after that you could theoretically have a basic measure of fun.

I more or less successfully stave off depression with alcohol. And girls, but girls were a mistake.

You can have fun for lots of reasons. They have much more to do with the group and context of the sessions than it does the game itself. It's not meaningful as a measure AND it can't be meaningfully measured.

>ESL
Is that kind of like ESP?

I actually enjoy being foreverGM more than a player, for mostly 2 reasons, one, I enjoy having control of the story and tailoring it for other people, two, I get bored if I'm not playing 24/7, and since I don't want to be a spotlight stealer or anything, I prefer just being the GM

>story
Wew

As a matter of fact, considering something fun implies you have a set of parameters that are being satisfied which are applied a value that put them above the parameters that aren't.

it's just a matter of identifying the parameters in play and the values behind them.

This I can agree with. But then, why use the word "fun" when literally anything would suffice? Why not Gurp (Gurps singular), for example?

>Ha ha yes this was a gurp session boys!
>Yes it was! Thanks for another gurp night DM!
>be me, DM
>tfw when players expectations of gurp are satisfied

>It can be. It can't be directly quantifiably measured.
But user, quantifiably measuring things is the only thing in life that's meaningful!

I'm high and what is this

It's not a weird feel. I flat out don't enjoy playing.

It means English is your second language, autismo.

But would you stay in a group if you found the play unfun?

I know you're but what am I?

If I found anything about the game/group interesting, no. For example, the DM's setting, the mechanics of the game, or the color of the panties the cute girl at the table is wearing. Fun isn't the only thing in the world. HDMYB?

This sentence started autistic and gradually declined into going as far as decided to use even go want to do look more like.

> Fun isn't the only thing in the world
But you're saying that you're finding fun in enjoying the setting, mechanics, panties etc. instead, and would not stay if there was no redeeming qualities. Clearly we both agree that having fun is central to enjoying a hobby, correct?

What word would you prefer, enjoyment? That's a synonym. It's the same thing. If you reply yes, you are a retard. Fair warning.
If not, what is the point of gaming for you?

I have severe tendencies towards control and perfectionism, I hate being a GM but I also hate seeing new GMs make mistakes all the time; so I just sort of cling really tightly to a chair and pretend I'm fine.

What exactly are you defining fun to be? I wouldn't exactly call wondering about a girl's panties fun. It's certainly interesting. Relishing a man's unique style of DM'ing or testing the limits of a complicated sense of humor isn't really "fun" either. Unless you mean fun to be any activity that leans closer to desirable than undesirable.

In which case I'll still disagree. Undesirable situations are still essential to the hobby. Stressful encounters, TPK, learning a crunchy new system. Just because it's an activity you voluntarily choose to participate in doesn't mean it has to be all dopamine all the way through - even if that's what they try to feed you in overcorporate game shop sessions these days.

Maybe interesting or valuable. Worth your time aka worthwhile.

/v/ reporting in. Can confirm fun isn't the only measure of quality in games, traditional or otherwise. One can respect a good story and great build without actively having fun.

It's called Morrowind.

...

Why use "Knife" to describe "a small hand-held edged object" instead of "Gorlack"?
It's just the fucking word some asshole picked a couple centuries ago, so now it's part of the language.

>Morrowind
I thought it was a MMO game? How can it have a good story?

I'm just wondering about your definition of 'fun'. Fun means having a good time. Fun isn't synonymous with 'constant rewards'. For example hard work can be fun if you enjoy seeing the results. Spending your free time on something you don't enjoy at all (thus you not getting any fun out of it) seems to me bizarre.

All that sounds like fun to me. It seems like you've definitely got a different definition of fun stuck in your head, like fun can't be found in 'bad things', that setbacks in a fictional setting can't be fun. I'd also say that your interest in something causes you have fun. Really interest is just enjoying thinking about something, and as established enjoyment = fun.
But Morrowind is fun.
REEEE UNDERAGE GET OUT

>They have much more to do with the group and context of the sessions than it does the game itself.
Not necessarily true.
While it is true that there are a number of factors that measure into the level of fun being had and "the game" is just a fraction of the sum total of factors that include the group, context, and others, each of those factors is weighted differently depending upon the individual.
Stating that the game is outweighed by the other factors is a biased point of view that is not necessarily true of everyone.

>It's not meaningful as a measure AND it can't be meaningfully measured.
Simply untrue.
While the fuzzy analog of measuring fun subjectively does not yield comparative units of fun, by rendering the measurement into a series of digital comparisons, you can measure relative fun in a meaningful way.
The most meaningful measurement of fun is the initial question:
>Was this session fun? (yes/no)
>Was this session more fun than last session? (yes/no)
>Was this session more fun than doing (x)? (yes/no)
>Was this session more fun than doing (y)? (yes/no)
>Was this session more fun than doing (z)? (yes/no)
>Was this session more fun than doing (your mom)? (yes/no)

If having a good time is the limit of your ability to engage with a cultural medium, why don't you fags just jerk each other off under the table, roll a few dice and call it a day?

I don't understand your reaction.
:^)

Dusting this screencap off for this discussion:
Fun is an important element to any game.
Fun is not the only important element to any game.

Because I don't enjoy jerking people off, especially not overweight neckbeards, and I'd be particularly uncomfortable having a similar overweight neckbeard jerk me off. I'd enjoy crafting a story with friends and overcoming imaginary obstacles more than cumming over the table with a bunch of weirdos.

Why would I want to spend my free time engaging with a cultural medium that has nothing to offer to me? I mean, are you claiming that you habitually engage with cultural mediums you fucking hate, for free? are you a janitor

Story is a result of the system being played, no one is there to "tell" it. It's crafted through play. This goofy nigger broke his left foot to stick it up his own ass and he has the gall to tell anyone how to walk.

Then just jack yourself off. Put on some trap porn for a challenge. Keep increasing the ante as your experience gets higher. Hell, roll on one of /b/'s post no. fetish charts, now it's a full-fledged TTRPG and technically objectively more fun than anything else you'll ever play.

>the only thing culture has to offer me is a good time
Art is not a cheap whore. You are garbage!

Can't jack myself off forever man, it gets boring. Gotta have a couple other things going on, and ttrpgs are another thing that I enjoy.

>Story is a result of the system being played, no one is there to "tell" it. It's told through play.
FTFY
You pedantic dumbass.

Bro I'm telling you, just combine your two loves: masturbation and TTRPG. The ultimate in good times

hey Virt :*

I'm starting to think that you're just triggered by the word 'fun', and if anything else was used instead (like enjoyment) we wouldn't be even having this conversation.

>tfw no qt grill to fug and roleplay with
To be more charitable, it's more a misunderstanding due to his interpretation of 'fun', it's that to him 'fun' has a different nuance to enjoyment, and that you can enjoy yourself without having fun. To him I think fun is enjoyment from more dumb and positive kind of pursuits, and I'm kinda seeing him there now.

>last 4 games I join didn't last more then a week or was doing something I was not flat out enjoying at all
>join a new game but get a gut feeling I won't like it
>Later in the week say let me know I'm dropping out before it even started and wish them the best
The last few games outside of one I had this "gut" feeling too and they all ended up bad but this is the first time I followed up with it and left a game before it even started not sure if should feel good about it.

I let them know*

Were these online games without a "session 0"?

If you mean everybody sitting down and doing stuff like character creation as a group then yeah one (the one I liked the most but didn't last past new year) was the only one with a session zero.

Fun, enjoyment, a good time, it's all the same thing. My point is that there are higher reasons to engage in the medium than pleasure, hedonism, gratification, whatever you want to call it - it's base and shallow and to treat it as the ultimate, fundamental ideal on which all works, GMs, and sessions should be judged is fucking pathetic and stupid. Seriously, just play high if that's all you're looking for, why beat around the bush? Or just beat behind the bush, in a big satanic nerd circlejerk.

>I'm kinda seeing him there now.
Really? I've never convinced anyone of anything after over a decade on this site

Ah, yep.
GMs need to vet players, especially online.
If you're playing online and don't get vetted, you're playing roulette, not rpg.
A session where everyone gets together to casually discuss the game and characters is a decent way to vet players.

I'm a bit at loss here, so could you give examples please? What was the thing you got out of the last campaign you played, it if wasn't fun?

See, I'd argue that enjoyment isn't just that 'base and shallow' thing you're talking about. You can enjoy interpreting a piece of art, or enjoy the pursuit of knowledge or acts of altruism, which may not fit the interpretation of 'fun' I thought you were using. And again, because jerking off isn't all there is to life.

I just want to have a game to play on the side as I gm. Like in the 5 or years I been using roll20 I only been in one game that lasted more then 8 weeks its the worst.

The position that "Fun is not the only important element to a game." is a reasonable one.
If that is your position, you have done yourself and your position no favors in this thread.

The position that "Fun is not an important element to a game." is an unreasonable one.
If that is your position, you have done yourself and the human race no favors in this life.

The position that "Fun is a less important element to a game than others, and therefore doesn't matter." is an unreasonable opinion.
If that is your opinion, you have done yourself sexual favors in this thread and I invite you to do so elsewhere.

>Fun is not the only important element to any game.
Actually, it is. I couldn't imagine anything as stupid as this sentence even if I tried.

>The position that "Fun is not the only important element to a game." is a reasonable one.
I'd contest this. Fun is not an element of the game in itself, it's something that rises (or fails to rise) from the combination of elements of game. The elements being things as fellowship, story, mechanics, etc.

>Actually, it is. I couldn't imagine anything as stupid as this sentence even if I tried.
And there is no shame in you having that opinion.
Your insistence that rules, socialization, and all other elements of games are all meaningless and don't matter at all is no reason for us to marginalize you.

I do have to ask if there are any sharp objects near you right now and if so, is there someone else there that come to the computer?

Would "aspect" be a better term than "element" here?

...

What could fun possibly be if not the product of rules, socialization and all the other elements of the game?

>What could fun possibly be if not the product of rules, socialization and all the other elements of the game?
>fun is the product of x, y, & z
>fun is important but the things that produce it are not important at all
I'm getting kind of worried that you didn't answer me about those sharp objects.

Frankly I don't see what's the difference between aspect and element here. All I'm saying is that fun is the end result of a game, not a separate thing that makes up the game. A product not a component you know? (what elements/aspects make the game fun of course varies from person to person)

Ok. It's been awhile since I played in someone else's game, but it was a gonzo dungeon and with a lot of creative ideas and weird shit that got my noggin joggin. It was impressively designed and inspiring for its creativity. It also taught me the elegance of B/X.

The sessions were fun too because we drank and made good banter but that's ASIDE from my appreciation for the design of the dungeon and setting itself. I don't care if it was fun, we would've had our fun partying anyways. Now if you want to tell me that appreciation for someone's work is another one of the many divine manifestations of "fun," go ahead, but know you're a fucking tool.

Fun is not an important element to ALL games, faggot. I'm not going to tell kids playing monopoly there's something they're not seeing if they're not having fun, but yes, when the autist starts getting frustrated he's no longer having the FUN he's ENTITLED to for whatever reason it is this time, we're all only going to feel embarrassed for the guy. There's more to life, and art and media, than fun.

>fun is important but the things that produce it are not important at all
No one besides you has made that claim in this thread. I'm not going to defend a position I did not propose, especially for you.

Fun is an aspect of a game, produced by the game.
Fun is not the only aspect of a game.
Something needs to do more than "produce fun" in order to be defined as a "game".
Therefore, fun is not the only important aspect to a game.