Superhero Systems

Mutants and Masterminds, SECOND edition.

I love to enjoy capeshit games vicariously through other anons. Any of you have some stories to share?

>it is about simulating a comic book
It sounds perfect.

I really like it. It requires a lot of cooperation between everyone playing but I have a lot of fond memories of playing through with some anons.

MSHRPG is fun and easy and great for what it is

Wild Talents 2e

>Likes
--Character creation is fun and you can make just about anything with a bit of creativity.
--The mechanics are relatively simple though the multiple type of dice keep things interesting.

>Dislike
--For character creation everyone needs to be on the same page as you can make virtually anything which be detrimental to the party.
--Power creation is somewhat complex with lots of modifiers that can take a bit to get used to.
--Dice mechanics are different from the norm which can take time to get used to if you only played more traditional systems.

Mutants and Masterminds 3rd edition.
>Likes

Versatile, able to handle basically any power, even has rules for omnipotence.

Actually managed to make something good come out of d20.

>Dislikes

Modular power building can be daunting to new players.

Jesus Christ, the balance issues.

>ywn be handled roughly by shirtless Superman

Why even live?

Mutants & Masterminds 3rd Edition

Same reasons as this guy minus the thing about balance

Marvel Superheros (from the 80's) had a great system for randomly creating characters.

classicmarvelforever.com/cms/

Super Bump

How is DC Universe? the d6 rpg

Clunky and 80s. If that's your bag, it's for you.

I honest don't think its so much as balance as it is some things are left a little too vague, like as to what's within reason for a Reaction power that can have so many ways to activate.

Anyone got a superhero system that works well for decently-balanced tactical combat?

There's not really a lot of support to that end, so far as I know.
I'd recommend looking into Strike or Valor, which are both setting-universal spiritual successors to very-tactical 4e D&D, that sort of do their own thing and have their own approach to it.

Strike gets talked about a fair bit on Veeky Forums, and it's a streamlined and lightweight follow-up on a lot of 4e's ideas of how to empower a character. Possibly too lightweight, while also being somewhat unintuitive. Also its noncombat rules are a bit junk, but it's trivial to just bolt in some other basic skill/resolution system you like. Lasers & Feelings axis system, Fate's skills, Fate Accelerated's approaches.
In a sense it's more bolting Strike's combat onto those games.

Valor's presented in its art as kitchen sink Slayers-esque fantasy, but the rules work just as well outside of that. Somebody posted an example of character creation where a guy makes Batman, and it's well represented. I'll see if I can find that.
I adapted an energy-bolt throwing hero I'd made in a different system and it was absolutely an accurate rendition of the character--though character creation is definitely slow-going your first time through.
It's got a very freeform "Technique" system to produce offensive abilities, with interesting ways of measuring that, and it's got some fun hooks for how those can be affected by other parts of character creation.

Found it:
imgur.com/gallery/KtzGn

I enjoy M&M 3E, but it costs something like 12 points to make a character capable of travelling to any point in time as well as other dimensions/alternate universes. There are some balance issues.

Reading through Strike right now, it's very strange. Like someone just took Apocalypse World, Burning Wheel, and 4e, and mashed ALL of them together without getting rid of anything. It's written in an extremely dense way, too. Maybe there's a good, light system underneath all that text, but I don't know if I'm dedicated enough to dig it out!

Valor looks like what I want. Seems like there's very little discussion of it online. They don't have a forum or anything that I could find. Which is kinda surprising considering how polished it looks. It doesn't help that the pdf is $30. After looking at the preview I was totally ready to drop $10 for a pdf.

Yeah, it never seemed to pick up traction, which is kind of a shame. The PDF's in Da Archive () if you want a better look at it before buying, or to run it through its paces. That's what I usually do when I buy digitally.

Well, with things like that, there's plenty of room for players using it to experience a variety of severe consequences for abusing it (you never know what'll happen screwing up with time or what hides in alternate dimensions), and the only games that actually use those powers are ones that are based around it.

Being able to go through time and different dimensions might also not help nearly as well depending on either the scope of the enemy's power or simply the goal itself. Going to another dimension won't save your world from invasion unless you can use it creatively and your character actually knows what other dimensions there are in the game's universe.

I actually gave a player with a one use Dimensional/TIme travel as a plothook where he went into a timeline which the God Eating Big Bitch Broodmother didn't eat his world. Unfortunately for him, she did not give one single fuck, and was already there waiting for him. He "lived", but received some scars, physically supernatural burning scars that also drove him insane with his own fears. So yeah, Dimensional Travel didn't save him.

Even then, the book knows that you don't just hand over those powers willy nilly, especially when they're not a part of the setting.

M&M has two big balance problems in my mind.

The first is things that are just obviously too good, often because of design oversight or poor wording. Reaction variable immunity making you literally untouchable, the multiattack modifier being way too cheap when something like throwing mastery or strength-based is adding to your damage, variable descriptor favored environment advantages being apparently legal but obviously undercosted, and other places where someone just didn't think the math all the way through are reasonably easy to find and let you do anything from skimp on a few points to completely break the game.

But those are the balance problems that can be solved by a competent GM who's willing to just say no to Captain Rules Loophole, and a group that's on the same page about how powerful characters ought to be.

The other problem, though, is much worse because it's baked into the PL system, and there's no fixing it without a huge overhaul of some of the game's fundamental assumptions.

There are lots of power drawbacks like exhausting, unreliable, or serious forms of limited that are a serious liability to any power or defense they're attached. However, because everything's going to be capped anyway none of those drawbacks will actually make that power any better than it could be otherwise. There's very little reason to take them unless you *want* a glaring weakness or are seriously starved for points somewhere else (which rarely happens anyway at 15PP/PL)

That because it is.
Down to the ideia that the plot gets progressively harder to the heroes no matter what happens and that they need to put on the pressure and use all their powers and be super otherwise the GM will just acquire more dice o nthe doom pool forcing them either to get their shit kickedi n when the big bad villain shows up or for them to step up their game and be super creative.

It's a game that strives to do one thing (What if comic book capes was a game?) and does it perfectly.

People have hacked the game to hell and back and honestly? While it's not as perfect to simulate/play other things like fantasy it's just straight up fun so it works too.

what the edgy hell is that picture?

Pretty much same except I more REEEEE at few select mechanical quibbles (i.e. penetrating damage being worthless at high level and unfluffy at low; conflict between exponential stat growth in absolute effect (i.e. 1 more point of superspeed is double movement) and their usage in opposed rolls (1 more point of speed is +5% success)) rather than "accidentally OP heroes".

That's because its a plot power rather than direct use power.
Its basically initiating a whole new sideadventure every time its used and if your players abuse it then yeah that's going to be a problem.
But without intergroup conflict, the power is just "can engage in plots about X when the DM wants a plot about X".

>There are lots of power drawbacks like exhausting, unreliable, or serious forms of limited that are a serious liability to any power or defense they're attached. However, because everything's going to be capped anyway none of those drawbacks will actually make that power any better than it could be otherwise.
Yeaah that's a problem as well.

I've been thinking of houseruling something to effect that you can bypass PL limit if your power is Limited.
Something like "if you leave your permanent stats X points away from powercap, then you can add 2X of Limited (with common weakness level) that can bypass powercap"
So you for example have 8 dodgeparry and 8 toughness permanently, leaving you 4 points off the powercap - so you can have 8 more toughness with for example [only while in direct sunlight].

Oh and alternative if a liiil' mechanically exploitative solution to those I've had is AEs.

I.e. you have your usual 20point ranged damage thunderbolt, and make AE to it that is still thunderbolt but with Flaw that requires power and adding area extra.

Or a magical sword that has base regular damage, and AE "only against demons" that is Linked with Weaken Toughness - Flaw sitting on BOTH effects in the AE rather than just having the limited linked effect attached onto it at all times.

On general superheroing: how do you come up with specifics of the villain's schemes? I.e. what deathtraps or challenges they present to heroes.

Mutants and Masterminds
>Dislike
Most of the premade powers are inefficient and shit, but building them from the ground up tends to make them too strong.
Movement and placement is weird. You're either normal human speed and everything is too fucking far away, or you're the Flash and you can cross the city in one move action.
>Like
The level of creativity available in character creation is amazing. With players that know what they are doing you can get really fun and interesting builds.

Currently starting GMing MnM second edition

>Like
Provides crazy action for almost any setting you can think of.
The Hero Points are a very interesting idea, it works for a better narrative driven system

>Dislike
I have this player that thinks that is OK to take 12 different powers that goes from regeneration, walking through solid, invisibility and mind control with no justification in the backstory besides "I was born this way hihihi :)".

>The level of creativity available in character creation is amazing. With players that know what they are doing you can get really fun and interesting builds.
But with bad players you get fucking powergamers

You are the GM.
You have the power of vetoing ranging from individual mods on powers to full on character concepts.

I know. I still feel like an asshole telling my player "you have to get all your sheet redone".

Okhold up, whole sheet?
Not just "dude remove this crazy combo here"?

Also you should try getting involved more with the chargen process to catch it sooner. Its much more of a necessity in superhero games than in d&d>

>Not just "dude remove this crazy combo here"?
Too many powerpoints were invested on that shit. Might aswell redo it again actually paying attention to her backstory (that wasn't actually bad to begin with).

I know I should have paid attention during the chargen hour. But I had to keep attention to four other players. At least I detected the mistakes soon enough.

I had to explain her that trying to powergame against the GM is stupid, unfair and not going to end good.

Ok senpai, you've done well.

>thinks that is OK to take 12 different powers that goes from regeneration, walking through solid, invisibility and mind control with no justification in the backstory besides "I was born this way hihihi :)".
Calm down Superman