Flames of War General /fowg/ - Damnit V4

Get read on plane camo.

Unsurprisingly, the top surfaces are painted to resemble the ground. Meanwhile the bottom surfaces are painted to resemble the air. Works pretty well unless you're cruising upside down.

That's fairly typical for most aircraft at the time.

Paint the top of the plane to light ok like the ground underneath it.

Paint the bottom of the plane to look like the sky above it.

I wonder what they'll do to my FJ, Paras, and Udarny. Do we have any indications, other than how they've messed around with infantry in the leaked lists?

Yeah, all this has me more than a bit worried.

>inb4 Italian tanks all have gins with AT2.

>Oh come on guys, V4 isn't going to be that bad!
>rules and stats leak
>nonsensical changes everywhere
>obvious bias in some of the stat modifications
>even more tank-centric
Time to make a shrine for V3 upon which to offer the burnt remains of V4 books.

Nah... I'm gonna get the V4 rules and smoke a few pages... it might allow me to enter whatever alternate dimension Battlefront have entered.

What were they thinking?

>Burning books

It's like you have no clue about the actual history that lead up to the events we recreate with this wargame...

I figure it looked a bit like the following
youtube.com/watch?v=faEFH5N8XUY

It's like you take everything you read on Veeky Forums seriously.

Do we know that these are the finalized versions of these books?

I don't know what to take seriously anywhere on the internet anymore.

Welcome to 2017...

>the V4 book still has the TY examples
I can't breathe. I know it's not final but I CAN'T BREATHE

...

...

...

Last one, hopefully there's a proper scan of the conversion book floating around somewhere.

I've got to re watch hellsing at somepoint

They're not finalised but given the level of finished-ness in them don't expect new units or anything. A book that's subject to heavy revisions looks like the el-alamein one.

It's somewhat literally TY WW2 edition, yeah.

There's not anything anywhere in there for the British 95mm howitzers, is there? Because them a) not having Brutal and b) not having unlimited smoke bombardments is dumb as all fuck. They're large bore guns, and they carried more than half of their ammo as fucking smoke shells.

I can't remember if there's a table somewhere in the book that would have all the statlines updated for V4, these pages just cover the special rules book by book.

I expect all arty in V4 to only be allowed one actual smoke bombardment, though I suppose there could be special rules to change that. It's weird, if anything the abstraction for arty has grown to cover MORE time, i.e. sustained mortar fire actually killing things rather than being an annoyance, yet smoke has been changed to only show up on the battlefield occasionally.

75-95mm is a bit of a weak spot for FoW, hell, if anything a Sherman's 75mm should have brutal just based on how it was used.

Soooo ... FoW wet full wehraboo?

That could explain the dislike of ths Bolsheviks...

Ok, so you can create Desert Rat Army where you can put literally 60 Stuarts or Crusaders... so explain me how you beat that as a German, becuase by the time they kill everything else the Tiger or the Stukas are fairly useless and you loose the battle...

spam vs super mega++ elite armies strikes again. Amazing how the FoW rules prevented this level of stupidity but TY/V4 doesn't...

1900 points South Korean tiger division list, using US mech rifle company.
Only mech platoons are painted in representing Koreans as the Korean army dispatched to Vietnam did not have any real tanks or choppers and called US forces when they needed them.
I can't understand why BF didn't even mentioned about Korean army in the TOD book while they dispatched 50,000 soldiers to Vietnam which numbers are second largest following US, while ANZACs have lists for them which sent only 5,000 soldiers including both NZ and Austrailian army.

Stuart has RoF 5 for MG (both stationary AND moving) and itss self defence AA, so it will prolly kill Stukas in time, and with that amount of dices you will kill of the infantry and gun times given time...

FFS, I didn't want to belive it can be this nasty...

Your vehicles are amazing, and your infantry is good but the bases might need a bit of work.

>while ANZACs have lists
BF is in New Zealand, so that's probably why they got lists but SK didn't (which is dumb)

It seems EW and LW retaining its points system(Barkmann is 275 points) while MW changing its point system to 100 max one.

Fantastic army m8.

>Bolsheviks
as much as i love lenin, there are many reasons to hate:
DIRTY
FUCKING
COMMIES
also i don;t think you can call Stalin's Russia bolshevik, he likely purged any party hold outs when he came into power.

Is it true that the Red Army is overpowered in Early?

Not for long friend.
Cheers

hey uh where could i find the Afgantsy in the scans?

Should be in the digital folder.

I can;t seem to find it even with control F

>FoW Digital Folder
>All the way at the bottom
>Team Yankee - Soviet Afgantsy Air Assault Battalion.pdf

thanks man
shoulda reasoned to check there.
i might be a stupid

Dunno if it means anything after the leak, but here is some nice plastic from Zvezda

how the fuck?

wait, what the fuck....?

this...this is hard to read.
also, it suddenly makes the Panzer IIIN worth taking....oh wait...
what is a 50mm armored PzIII doing with a 7.5mm?

we have entered the land of what-if, people!

time to play legions of Panzer III K's!

>hope they fix that....

Captured su100 for DM German pzgrens, a zvezda one.
Really nice kit, its gun can adjust elevation though the gun looks little thinner for its calibre.

It can adjust? Sweet. That defo makes up for the lack of hatches I can model.

noice.

so, let me make a shitty V4 list with the spill:

Panzer K Forces, etc.

HQ ----- 2x PzIII 7.5 ----- 16pts
CC ----- 5x Pz III 7.5 ---------------------------------------------------------- 40pts
------------ 1x Pz III 5cm long, 1x uparmored long, 1x short ------ 20
------------- 2x PzIV 7.5 short --------------------------------------------------- 12

---- 5cm tank hunter (CC as support) ----- 12pts.

the 5cm guns have a tactical speed, and the so-called K's get to ignore long range armor....
Pz4's are there to Smoke and drop light artie...

could drop the mixed platoon for basic 5cm and an OP?

whaddaya think?

The 5cm pak38 is way better than 6 pdr, as 6pdr has 2 inches tac move while 5cm has 4 inches tac move.
It is not only just 2 inches difference because teams with tac move rate of 2 inches cannot move with follow me, blitz, shoot and scoot and cross here movement order.
With German stormtrooper which allows 2 movement orders 5cm can move up to 8 inches in a turn with blitz, shoot its gun with halted ROF and shoot and scoot or 14 inches in a turn with blitz, dash 6 inches and follow me, while 6 pdr move 2 inches and shoot moved ROF or dash 4 inches.

Admittedly, you get 4x FV 6pdrs for 12 points, while you get 3x CV 5cms for 12.

Though both lost their formerly properly high RoF, and the 6pdr has lost its (historically much) better penetration because brits aren't allowed to have nice things and tonk stronk, it seems.

As if the brits didn't have it bad enough. Why does BF have boners for cold war Brits, but not their predecessors?

NATOboo's sell in Team Yankee, lots of very rose tinted nostalgia. Wehraboo's sell in WWII, rule of cool.

I'm really quite mad at the Brits lists in Desert Rats, not only are some very common armour and infantry formations excluded, you're only allowed one Motor formation, so I can't even simulate a rifle battalion or get close to 100 points with what I already own. It's like BF are saying 'we're going to all the trouble of making these lovely Grant and Crusader plastic kits, so I MUST INSIST THAT YOU PURCHASE SOME, if you want to keep playing.' I could proxy Shermans for Grant's, but what's the point in that..

Completely ignoring that they're not releasing US, Italians and Russians for months, they couldn't even give reasonable options for Brits and Germans, yet they managed to include Tigers and 17 Pounders? A big part of why Team Yankee is having this horrible meta bloat is that so little development was put into the initial book.

I've had a thought. What if these are playtested copies that the stats of which have been made less shit for retail?

I have looked through the final physical MW rulebook. Crusaders are still AT9 and one man turret equivalent, everything seems the same.

So far V4 doesn't look so promising. I had hopes from the rumors, but looking at those lists is just painful.

Maybe it's a good thing they aren't touching Italians until after summer, might give them time to unfuck things at least a tiny bit.

Then again I suppose I can wait for delicious plastic Italian tanks and such and just keep playing V3 if I want. I'm never going to play in a tournament anyway, so I don't lose much.

>so I can't even simulate a rifle battalion
you can take as many formations as you like, I assume you're allowed duplicates, if not you can take motor platoons as support platoons

One 4-stand platoon of infantry in this company? What? Or are they saving space by not putting the other two on the sheet?

Oh balls, I am blind. What a stupid place for the second one. Also still, 8 platoons. Ick. You brits have it rough.

>platoons
Stands

I need to go the fuck to sleep.

I'm worried for my FJ. My Panzers will probably be much the same as before. I wonder what they'll do to the yanks, especially their armour and armoured infantry companies.

You're right, lots of things I'm still assuming work the same way as Team Yankee. Being able to add generic core units as support units is interesting.

These rulesets are more than a month old, let's hope they listened to feedback from the people they were given to and they have fixed some of the horrible stuff i've seen.

Is it viable to use snipers vs late Germans?

>With German stormtrooper which allows 2 movement orders 5cm can move up to 8 inches in a turn with blitz, ... 14 inches in a turn with blitz
It can't do either of these things; the two movement orders have to be different.

>A big part of why Team Yankee is having this horrible meta bloat is that so little development was put into the initial book.
I think you're really right on this; it's bizarre, for instance, that they put in the "Accurate" rule, but didn't put in Bazooka Skirts, which every subsequent book used in some form or another. I had a good feeling when I saw Accurate, because I was hoping it'd be the case that they'd already planned out (but not finalised) everything else, too, and so everything would fit nicely. But it really doesn't seem like that looking at Volksarmee and, honestly, even Leopard.

>a single tiger rapes whole British list
I played 2 games with leaked pdf files today, I see a tiger is not a problem for British if you decide to include 17 pdrs in your list, and 2 tigers are even worse.
Having 4 17pdr guns while the Germans have a or two rigers means auto-winning.
Stukas are suck, panzer 4 D do not worth points.
Having spearhead units is essential, as you can always adjusting points to deploy recon units in 50 points reserve limit.
I would say 4th edition MW is British bias.

>and 2 tigers are even worse.
Reading the el alamein rules 2 tigers are actually autolose since you can't have anything on the table, aren't they?

You put them in reserve and deploy the rest of your shit.

Was my explanation that poor?
One is a way to move 8 inches in a turn and shoot as halted ROF by using blitz followed by shoot and scoot, and another is a way to move 14 inches in a turn but without shooting by using blitz followed by follow me. My saying was not using blitz and blitz in same turn.

Since you tested them how's this list?

2x Grant HQ 12pts
3x Grant 18pts
3x Grant 18pts

2x Rifle HQ 2pts
Full Motor Platoon 8pts
Full Motor Platoon 8pts
2x 3" Mortar 3pts
3x Carrier 2pts
3x Carrier 2pts
3x Carrire 2pts

4x 17/25pdr 16pts
2x Hurricane 9pts

100pts

What a mess.

I think a part of this was down to them not thinking Team Yankee was going to blow up like it did.

I like it.
Except 2 gun battery of 3 inches mortar. You cannot hit anything having penalty of -1 to hit being 2 guns, your guns will hit German infantry or gun teams being gone to ground on 6 even if you succeeded ranging in on first attempt. If primary role of the artillery is pinning infantry or guns before assaulting I'd rather choose 4 guns of vickers hmg or 4 guns of 25 pdrs.
Thats why I said stukas are suck.
It depends on how terrains placed on your table though, as always been in FOW.

> Those tiny platoon sizes

If I wanted to play Team Yankee I'd fucking play Team Yankee.

Is it worth it to have the soviet 45 mm anti-tank guns when I already have 57 mm tank destruction company?

I like having 2 HQ support 45mm AT guns with a 57mm zis 2 gun platoon. 45mm guns cannot do much damage to pz4, stug, panther or shermans at front arc but they will need to take at least one or two more turns to clear those little guns to push back entrenched strelkovy company by safe charging after they managed to clear 57mm gun positions.
Imho buying a turn for arriving reserve by paying 40~45 points for 2 guns is very reasonable choice.

They're also FP 4+ RoF 3 volley-fire guns, so if you're assaulting they can come with the infantry and knock out gun teams. 4+ firepower is good shit against dug-in infantry.

Agree with this: they are also handy to light-up Recce and half-tracks, so you can save the Gone to Ground status on your better guns. Quite useful little guns in my experience.

Did the rulebook mention changes in planes anywhere? Because the new rules for planes are substantially different and the old ones don't work anymore.

It think it mean you can have a motor platoon or a antitank platoon as a compulsory choice

Yeah i took them pretty muc only for the smoke bombardment.

How's this one instead?

2x Grant HQ 12pts
3x Grant 18pts
3x Grant 18pts
3x Honey 5pts

1x CrusaderII 2x CrusaderII CS HQ 5pts
1x CrusaderII 2x CrusaderIII 7pts
2x CrusaderII 1x CrusaderIII 6pts

3x Carrier 2pts
3x Carrier 2pts
4x 17/25pdr 16pts
2x Hurricane 9pts

Battlefront always underestimates demand.

They'll produce just enough of something so that they won't break the bank if it's a flop, and then quickly run out of their production run when it turns out to be a smash hit.

Don't knock it until you've tried it. team Yankee is actually a much more fun, easier to understand, and fast playing game in my opinion.

>team Yankee is actually a much more fun, easier to understand, and fast playing game in my opinion.
Yeah, I'm cautiously optimistic. It's not going to be V3 but V3 plays so slow compared to TY.

>Don't knock it until you've tried it.
My issue is not gameplay, but with the loss of accuracy for changes that matter mainly at points balancing and force construction (ie: pre-game). They dumbed down and changed shit to less accurate forms in places where it doesn't matter at the table (all these changes to individual AT values, force org), which was 100% unnecessary for speeding up the game itself.

Doesn't matter what the gameplay balance is, the british equipment has worse stats than it should, and some units on the german side have the EXACT SAME GUN but entirely different stats for it. The british shit should be better and should obviously pay the points for it, but having 6pdrs have the same AT as 5cms, having 17pdrs much worse at penetrating then 8.8cms, and making Crusaders have the same fucking armor as the 8-rad make no fucking sense at all. They should have given them proper stats and adjusted the points appropriately, but it seems like they designed the points first and the stats second.

I agree. The core rules may be fine, but the stat fuckery is what has me most worried. There seems to be no logic, or consistency, behind it other than "Germans must be the best at all times!"

Just blows my mind a bit.

>some units on the german side have the EXACT SAME GUN but entirely different stats for it
Wait what?

No idea what he's talking about there desu.

He prolly means caliber or something. I'm not gonna take the time to sort that out tho.

Only thing I can see is the Pz III KwK37 having HEAT shells, which makes it AT 9 instead of 7, but, that's because it's firing the improved HEAT shell.

The short 7.5 on the Panzer III is AT 9.
The short 7.5 on the Panzer IV is AT 7.

The Panzer III ones are firing HEAT rounds, the IVs aren't.

Was the HEAT round never issued to the Panzer IV?

Not like history matters when they give Tigers but no PaKs or Nebs.

Well, presumably not since they were refitting with F2s, but god knows what time period it's meant to represent with Tigers at El Alamein.

Anyone got the feeling they did the math and found the desert was the least-played area so they'd sell more there?

I feel like making historical and nicely detailed and interesting lists falls has taken a back seat to selling new miniatures.