So Wizards (likely for legal reasons) can never publish Dual Lands again

>legal reasons
Gonna show off my newfag for a second but what the fuck, either I'm misunderstanding this or you're trying to tell me they can't print more cards that they fucking own.
What the fuck?

Based on their strange comments in the past on how they COULDN'T comment on things, it seems as though they may have been sued over reprints way in the past.

mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/324249-the-secret-cabal-of-sue-happy-collectors-theory

So basically people who bought a bunch of high dollar cards would throw a shit fit over a product they bought getting devalued?
They also think that they have any right to sue over said devaluation?
Kek, that sounds fucking childish if I bought someone and then its price drops significantly for whatever reason I have no one but myself to be mad at for not waiting.
Thats like stockholders getting upset that their stock hit the shitter and trying to sue the company because they wasted their money

Yes, and there have been cases in the past (linked in that thread) that make give them worry.

Chances are they got fucked in the courts by people who could afford very good lawyers.

I'd imagine they're also terrified of ruining the secondary market.

>very good lawyers
People keep saying that as if a lawyer can actually change how the law works
>ruining the secondary market
Okay now I can understand that to an extent

>People keep saying that as if a lawyer can actually change how the law works
The law's open to interpretation. Similar cases where devaluing a product was case for court proceedings have happened.

i like this. imo there is always more design room.

>seasonal lands
land - forest plains
at the beginning of your upkeep put a season counter on ~this~ and then if there are two or more counters on ~this~ remove them.

Tap: add G to your mana pool. if there is a counter on ~this~ add W instead.
(1): add or remove a counter from ~this~

A lawyer can sue. The lawsuit can cost a lot even if wotc won. If i ran wotc i would also leave the reserve list alone.

Forest of Abandon
Land - Waste Forest.

Mountain of reflection
Land - mountain,
You may tap a land as mountain of reflection comes into play, if you do mountain of reflection gains all types that land is.

channelfireball.com/articles/how-to-dismantle-the-reserved-list/

Interesting article about the reserve list.

I assume Legacy doesn't really make money for them directly, so you're probably right. Why touch this barrel of snakes?

They might argue that is functionally equivalent.

Snow-covered duals. They could print those whenever they felt like it.

The whole "we can't print RL cards" is just bullshit. If they really wanted to, they could run circles around such a stupid concept as the Reserved List. They don't reprint RL cards because it makes no financial sense.

No, they can't, they've updated the reserve list to be more restrictive. They can't be functionally equivalent.

You can't just call them snow-covered and they can't make them legendary.

that mountain is a bit wonky

how about this:

Cascading Peak
Land - Mountain
When this comes into play you may reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal another basic land. Exile that card. Cascading Peak can make any kind of mana produced by the exiled land. Shuffle your library.

the reserve list also stipulates that they can't print something that's functionally the same with other name.
Really, if you want to blame someone, blame the old wotc higherups.

Great, you just printed a $200 land. Not that i mind though.

>open to interpretation
Yeah and those cases may happen, but the judge needs to do his job and throw the cases out of court
They get mad over having wasted money, so the solution is waste more money to make them waste money for the smallest chance of getting a small bit of money back
Great thinking! Also nice get.

Print triple lands ;^)
Exactly like the dual lands but in three colors!
What shitstorm would ensue if that was to come true?

they should man up and ban dual lands, they're straight up better than basics with no drawback

When it comes to any problem with MtG, the answer is to create a new game. The game can never be fixed because the way combat, resources, and timing work are all terrible.

literally, LITERALLY better than dual lands, custom card fags need to seriously kys yourselves

>Also nice get
shit dude, i didn't even realize it.

Alright...
Maybe you should make it more painful, like exile all cards revealed this way.

It's stupid, WotC creating the promise of the reserve list is the only reason a lawsuit would hold any ground against them for reprinting the cards on it. They only thing stopping them from throwing the list out the window is themselves.

>ABOLISHING THE RESERVE LIST IS A PLAN ZZ LEVEL LAST RESORT WHEN SALES START FALLING AND THE GAME IS UNRECOVERABLE

ABOLISHING THE RESERVE LIST IS A PLAN ZZ LEVEL LAST RESORT WHEN SALES START FALLING AND THE GAME IS UNRECOVERABLE

>ABOLISHING THE RESERVE LIST IS A PLAN ZZ LEVEL LAST RESORT WHEN SALES START FALLING AND THE GAME IS UNRECOVERABLE

ABOLISHING THE RESERVE LIST IS A PLAN ZZ LEVEL LAST RESORT WHEN SALES START FALLING AND THE GAME IS UNRECOVERABLE

One way to get around the reserved list is to print duals in a supplemental product and just put downsides that are negligible for legacy. For example, "When you cast a spell with cmc 6 or greater, sac ~". Many decks never cast big spells, so decks like delver, storm, infect, shardless, lands, etc. would get a new cheap dual.

In some way, it is.
If come the time that they are desperate enough to abolish the reserve list, you know it's time to bail.

And these lands can't be played in the same decks as original dual because...?

do you not play legacy? Very few decks even run playsets of OG duals. Its mostly fetches, with 2-3 of the necessary duals. These would be budget "replacements" that aren't actually worse in practice

That is almost a non-factor. Most Legacy decks don't even play a full playset of duals, so being able to play 5+ of any one of them would have a negligible impact on the format.

This.

Even if there was no reserved list, why would anything change? WotC has put no effort into keeping modern affordable, so why would they bother doing it for legacy?

I would just ban these in Legacy and be done with it. Shocks in Legacy would actually give aggro a lease and would make the format much more affordable. The only thing is that the prize of shocks would shoot up but you can always reprint shocks. Ravnica 3, Modern Masters, Conspiracy, Commander sets even. It is easy to make a place for them in all kinds of supplemental sets, and in Standard in ocasion.

The only question is, will wizards care enough to keep the prize of shocks down?

The reason wotc will never support legacy (and is slowly dropping support for modern) is that it doesn't make them money. Even If they did a massive print run of legacy staples, they might make a lot of sales, but after the initial wave, a lot of people will be done buying product from wotc. Its no secret that legacy (or vintage, and to some extent modern) is a lot more fun than their shitty "curated" standard environments. and once people have their 1-3 decks that they like to play, they have basically no incentive to continue purchasing whatever garbage wizards can regurgitate every 3 months

The real question is where can I buy relatively cheap, high quality counterfeits?

I think shocks would have a much greater impact than just "give aggro a lease". Shocks are even worse in legacy because of cards like daze, price of progress, ad nauseam, etc. Plus the fact that brainstorm encourages holding on to fetches while shocks want you to fetch eot regardless. Overall it would make the format much shittier while not actually doing much to encourage people to play it.

you guys really think it's that good? you have little control over what the second color of mana is. if you hit a mountain it's a whiff.

how about artifact dual lands? hit by more hate, shut down by null rod in eternal formats, ultimately worse, but would be a proper replacement that in decks that need them instead of fucking shocking yourself every time you play one.

>they've updated the reserve list to be more restrictive
But why? Did they seriously get sued over the premium decks?

Lately standard has been pretty nice though.

Don't misunderstand me, BfZ block was shitty, but even then it did have a strong impact on most formats. Eldrazi winter was terrible, but in the end modern ended up somewhat diversifying and eldrazi stompy is a good budget option for Legacy.

SoI was underwhelming in many ways but overall it was certainly a step up from BfZ and actually had cool cards like Selfless Spirit, Rattlechains, Mausoleum Wanderer and Spell Queller (yes, I have a thing for Spirits). Sure, nothing with too much impact, but cool cards if you can ignore the cringy lore.

Kaladesh is the first plane in a long time that is A) Well built, B) Meta relevant and C) Well executed (although the focus on Ghirapur ended up making it feel like Mirrodin meets Ravnica). Plus, the art has been going up in quality.

I very much enjoy cards with quality art because they portray a well-crafted plane like Kaladesh best.

The common assumption is that there was a threat of that and so they closed the loopholes, but there's nothing official to support it and there likely never will be.

Right? I basically only play casual EDH and the occasional draft. I don't wanna shell out $90-$250 for something I do for fun, that's only that expensive because they refuse to make more. I'd never take them to tournaments or anything oficial, but fuck dude, I just want a slightly better mana base.

Maybe a ban on Price of Progress would be in order then?, I don't think Daze is problematic enough to warrant it though.

The Brainstorm argument is actually positive in my eye, since fetching or not becomes a more thought-out decision.

what's the issue with dual lands being printed again?

Maybe I should clarify.

Standard isn't nice, it's shitty like most of the time. Its Standard sets that are nice.

Bring down dual lands that are used a lot a rarity.

Its pretty easy to find if you just put the slightest effort into it. go to the bootlegmtg subreddit, it has most of the up to date information

Thank you kindly

WITNESSED

Make more shocklands.

>Mad Lands

Mangrove Riverbank
Island Forest
As Mangrove Riverbank enters the battlefield, you may exile the top card of your library, face down. If you don't, Mangrove Riverbank enters the battlefield tapped.

Wow holy shit what a downside exile one card from my library big whoop.

Okay heres a land idea

Volcanic Island
Mountain Island
Add U or R to your mana pool.

Make Legendary dual lands (or even Legendary tri-color lands) with a heavy tradeoff.

> Example 1:

Niv-Mizzet's Sanctum

Island Mountain

When ~ ETB, pay either U or R. Otherwise, it enters tapped.

> Example 2:

The Throne Room of Nicol Bolas

Island Mountain Swamp

When ~ ETB, pay URB, otherwise, take 4 damage and discard a card.

Why not ban OG dual lands?

>ex 1
Reasonable.
>ex 2
Nigga are you out of your goddamn mind thats a retarded ass card with a hueg downside

oh wow ur so good u shud work for magic

>Let's make lands to replace dual lands to save eternal formats!
>"FUCK YOU! REPRINT DUAL LANDS!"

10/10

>When ~ ETB, pay either U or R. Otherwise, it enters tapped.
>pay either U or R
>Otherwise, it enters tapped.
Have you realized how stupid that sounds?

The problem is that if the downside isn't negligible or a non-factor, there is no reason to play the new lands. We already have shocks, we don't need another dual with conditional etb untapped. Shocks are played by people who don't have the money for duals or want to try a deck out, but you lose a significant portion of your games because of it. People who actually want to play the format will shell out for the actual duals and not take those percentage point hits.

eh, you can still make it work if anything makes your lands tap for more than 1 mana. As it is though, most of the time these are just fetchable etb tapped lands, and are quite a bit worse than the battle lands.

The solution is simple

>Ban Duals
>Reprint shocks
>???
>Profit

you shouldnt fuck up the format just because poorfags like you are too lazy to buy fakes

Oh sweet summer child.

Basics can't be hit by wasteland or blood moon you mongoloid. Those are excellent reasons to run a non-zero number of basics in any deck with more than 16 land.

That would actually be a good card. Uncounterable hermit druid ability? Hope you have stifle.

Dual manlands that don't etbt or have any other drawback. Yes, the manland ability would go unused except in rare occasions. It's just there for plausible deniability.

you realize hermit druid is good because the cards go to the grave, not exile right?

I do, but it's still a viable backup plan with labman+draw in hand

i still like my previous idea
here are two more outside the box ideas:

>Saltwater Moat - 0
Artifact - Fortification
Fortified land is an island in addition to it's other types.
When ~this~ enters the battlefield Scry 1.
Fortify: 0

(i added the scry to offset the obvious card disadvantage...also...fuck yeah fortifications)

>Sanctum Gardens
Land - Plains
Earthbond (you may pair this land with an unpaired creature when either enters the battlefield. they remain paired for as long as you control both of them.)
As long as ~this~ is bonded with a creature it is a Forest and that creature is a Druid in addition to it's other types.

Yo, I heard you like Druids

i honestly didn't even notice that people were already talking about druids itt

i just thought it was a somewhat flavorful and somewhat useful creature type

Magic is a slowly bursting bubble the secondary market is taking to much liberty gouging prices. Wizards isn't doing enough to support older sets. It's going to blowback hard down the line.

You're tellin me! I don't want to spend 400 dollars for a playset of Invoke Prejudices!

Could use some more like these:

As ~ enters the battlefield, you may reveal a enchantment card from your hand. If you don't, ~ enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add W or G to your mana pool.

As ~ enters the battlefield, you may reveal a instant card from your hand. If you don't, ~ enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add U or B to your mana pool.

As ~ enters the battlefield, you may reveal a sorcery card from your hand. If you don't, ~ enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add B or R to your mana pool.

As ~ enters the battlefield, you may reveal a artifact card from your hand. If you don't, ~ enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add W or U to your mana pool.

As ~ enters the battlefield, you may reveal a creature card from your hand. If you don't, ~ enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add R or G to your mana pool.

>Basic only so you better have other basics
>if its a basic mountain then you played a mountain that shuffles your library
Its a fetchable dual that enters untapped and only guarantees one color. Its better than some other duals but its pretty much fine, 15$ dual in standard, might see modern play if someone decides to try a wonkey mana base to guarantee it to be an X/Y land. The biggest reason I see for them not printing it is the time it would take to shuffle your library 3 more times a game. Dont expect Veeky Forums to be good at evaluating card ideas.

Although the Fortify artifact idea is a bit strong. Take off the scry or give it fortify 1.

just go back to painlands.

What does the total value of all these cards come to?

Do you think legacy players will turn a blind eye to proxies in the future?

So just for the sake of argument, what is preventing Wizards from notifying collectors well in advance that they will be reprinting the dual lands at some unspecified time in the next X years? There is no way they get nailed for insider trading because the fucking government doesn't regulate cards the same way they regulate stocks or the secondary market would not be fucking players over at every turn, so that can't be the answer.

Is that all you got?

;)

dunno, I try not to think about how much i've spent on magic these last 17 years.

I just like collecting shit. I mostly play Pauper these days.

Not just that, but the one bringing it should be charged with contempt. I think that it's something a bit simpler; they lost the rights to the art somehow.

Are these fucking single-sleeved?

>51574262 (You)
>Are these fucking single-sleeved?
Look at the bottom row.

do you double-sock your feet?

No, but I wear gloves and hats when appropriate.

>Do you think legacy players will turn a blind eye to proxies in the future?
Depends. Small local tournaments? Certainly.Plenty of shops offer 10 proxy leagues.

Larger tournaments will never be able to due to the legal and copyright issues WOTC has to deal with if someone else prints their products

One of the biggest problem with people who make and buy these proxies is people selling them online as the real thing when they are done with them. They're getting better, and while the 20 years of aging prevents the reserve list stuff from having perfect counterfeits, its already where the average player cant tell just from an eBay listing. Nothing sucks more as someone who has been in this game a long time than telling little timmy the Duals he spent 300$ on were actually just Chinese fakes.

On that same note, the logic of "Some brony neckbeard would sue" would prevent WOTC from altering banlists or even printing cards altogether. I cannot think of a single instance where someone was able to sue on the grounds of "He lowered the value of my thing". The value of a card from a booster pack would be little more than the price of the booster pack divided by the number of cards in it in the eyes of the law.

I want to hotglue Antonino De Rosa's dumbass face.

...

I am drawing a blank on the legal term, but their are grounds for publicly stating something, people assuming its true, then when the company goes back on their word the people sue their dicks off. Its not about the cards losing money, its that they promised to never reprint them publicly.

And that's stupid because now they can't print card like a 2/2 flying first strike card for 1WW because Thunder spirit is on the reserved list.

If that held any weight the entire gaming industry, digital and traditional, would be obliterated on a monthly basis.