Why do people hate Standard so much these days?

Why do people hate Standard so much these days?

Let me draft other packs too pls

Wotc trying way WAY WAAAAAAY too fucking hard to shape and craft the format into what their retarded fucking market research believes is the "ideal" "fun" play environment that casuals will enjoy and failing so miserably it's legitimately pitiful.

New design philosophy that anything which isn't rare or mythic has to be overcosted underwhelming dog shit. In fact most of the rares and mythics are like that too. Because "muh draft environment" so there's like a dozen playable cards and they all get crammed together in a combination or two or three different decks that dominate the format until enough of their staples rotate out.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Too much for casuals, not enough for the autismo legacy players

59/64 Heart of Kiran in top8 has something to do with it.

1. Pushed mythics (+their retarded prices. Wizards are well aware of this)
2. 3-4 available decks
3. MUH DRAFT ENVIRONMENT
4. Red and Blue are splash colours
5. Manabases are sacred and you can't mess with them = 3/4 colour abomination decks running rampart
6. Standard decks shouldn't cost more than 200 bucks. Now most of the good decks is in 400$ range.

Three reasons:

1. The rise of Hearthstone, Pokémon TCG, and EDH have taken many casual players away from Standard.

2. The price has gone way up due to Mythic Rares being a thing. Compare a $25 Ravager or Bitterblossom to a $100 JtMS or Jace Vryn's Prodigy.

3: There are no good digital platforms to playtest on. MTGO is outdated by almost 2 decades, while Cockatrice and XMage are known for their routine server crashes.

I liked mtg better when they didn't "design for standard" And just designed based on lore/flavor and interesting mechanics then let standard decks form organically

That's not WoTC's fault. That's SCG's fault for their massive buyout on every pre-RTR pack a few years back.

Yeah I never understood the logic behind WoTC's reasoning on this. Doesn't that make Sealed unplayable for anyone who doesn't get lucky and pull one of the chase cards? It essentially turns the format into a lottery where the person who pulls the most chase cards wins.

>4. Red and Blue are splash colours

There wasn't a single blue card in the top 8 decks

MaRo must have been so happy, he's been trying to kill Blue for years.

>where the person who pulls the most chase cards wins.
I disagree.
I have awful luck and still top8 pre releases making decks with almost nothing but commons and uncommons meanwhile the kids who open bomb mythics and rares don't do nearly as well because they aren't good deckbuilders.

Of course, a decent deckbuilder who opened the bomb mythic is still going to kick the good deckbuilder who didn't ass almost every time.

Just compare the price of Affinity to the price of Caw-Blade.

There's your answer.

Ok but if your LGS wasn't full of little kids and autistic mongoloids, the person who pulled the most chase mythics would almost always win the prerelease.

Funny that MaRO started his crusade against blue as a response tp the dominance of Caw-Blade.

Mardu Vehicles this PT was the most dominant deck since Caw-Blade, and Gideon AoZ has proven to be the single most dominant busted Mythic since JtMS.

>Gideon

You mean Heart of Kiran?

Without Gids, HoK isn't even that great. Heart is essentially to Gideon what Batterskull was to SFM.

The similarity is pretty much on-point, actually.

Even the cards themselves are nearly identical in their function. Both are Artifacts that function as 4/4 creatures with vigilance, only difference is Skull has Lifelink and Heart has Flying.

Because it's boring as fuck and you just play Black and Blue and you win by not letting your opponent play

My biggest issue with Mtg is that the addition of new cards is remarkably unbalanced every time they release a set. Granted, having the pool open to every set allows the turn 1 win decks to come out, but almost without exception every new set has a mechanic that was poorly play tested, is easily the most powerful mechanic in the set, and is neatly contained within one or two colors of the pie. This means, of course, that the major league players will always figure it out, and by the time finals come around, at least 5 of the top 8 will have carbon copy decks, or at the very least all use the same mechanic.

tl;dr, Mtg doesn't know how to keep the game balanced in the long run, and really fucks up in the short.

Bad answers = bad Magic

As simple as that

What are you talking about? Crew is the first mechanic like that since Devotion over 3 years ago.

>Mtg doesn't know how to keep the game balanced in the long run
legacy is pretty great from a checks-and-balances standpoint.

If you factor in Modern, there was Delve, too.

Mythic rares were a mistake.

I'm inclined to agree.

Heart is balanced. Gideon is the problem.

Standard's creature power level is fine right now.

What needs a fix is their terrible answers. Slowly they've gotten better (Fatal Push, Metallic Rebuke, and Disallow were good removal) but creatures are beginning to outpace the rate at which current spells and abilities can answer them.

Yeah the canned standard environments are pretty grating

You're both retarded.
MaRo is the guy who's been letting blue do everything over the last few years.
>one-sided board wipe?
>yeah, that's blue
>creature destruction?
>yeah, that's blue if they get a token out of it, so that way it's not really removal
>mass targeted exile?
>yeah, that's blue, but they need to get tokens again so it's not really removal and sorcery speed
>actually you know what, let's just give them targeted exile at instant speed and make it manifest a card, that's reasonable, right?

And yet it was better to ban reflector mage, as the format should be all about sorc speed removal and planeswalkers.

Hey man, Pauper and Legacy are pretty well balanced, having strong counterspells keeps a format under control

True. Yeah now that you mention it, I fear that either Heart of Kiran or Veteran Motorist might get the axe too, and Gideon will be spared yet again...

Don't forget removal in good creatures like the recently banned reflector mage and that flash spirit that can hold your spell.

REMOVE STODDARD remove stoddard
you are the worst developer. you are the developer idiot you are the developer smell. return to playing.

>everyone thinks Copycat is intentional to bring combo back into standard
>Stoddard literally didn't see the combo and it got away from testing intact

Because all sets are built for limited and aren't tested for standard

This right here. That's why I'm barely going to FNMs. I just can't play vs. draw-go decks. Then Gearhulk hits the table and I can't get rid of it because they can counter my removal attempts too.

I love playing MTG for fun with buddies so we don't really follow the standard scene much we just do what I guess is considered legacy at this point.

I looked into making a standard deck for a local game shop that has friendly tournaments and mtg nights on Tuesday/Friday.

It seems that most of the guys there just played with random stuff then the top 4 guys all used mardu vehicles.

I've made about 5 cheapo decks that are fun and work well enough with my buddies for less than $100.

To get into standard the "strong" decks are all over $250-300.

That seems like shit to pay all of that money for a deck that will get outdated when the next set drops.

Also shit online play really hurts; it's old, clunky, slow. I'd like an online TCG that doesn't cost an arm/leg and is still fun enough.

Pauper is based

EDH is sometimes fun but only play with a group of 4 because those games take forever otherwise

I think you might enjoy yourself in either as there's no serious competitive race. The problem with other non-rotating formats like modern and legacy is that even though they're fun, they are not cost effective which seriously filters out new players who don't own most of the staples. Tarmogoyfs and other essentials can be close to $100 and the manabases can ocassionally reach $500 if you're playing a bunch of fetches and shocks (ie, Scalding Tarn).

Pauper is fun because the speed is manageable and you can play with a lot of cards you would normally consider "chaff". I just built RUG delver and it cost less than $60. Other tier-1 decks are almost never above $80 dollars with all the format staples included.

Pauper seems like a neat idea.

I don't like EDH from what i've watched it being played.

I'd like a deck that is literally aimed at crushing money decks. Just because it's fun to chant "money deck money deck" at buddies who spent way too much.

Well, you're in luck, because there are plenty of those.
Spoilers: they cost just as much as those other expensive decks.

Is Mardu Vehicles the new Bant CoCo?

I think the most significant amount of hate in Magic could be mitigated if everyone could afford some number of competitive decks in whatever format they're playing.

Because the number of people who have multiple competitive decks and play enough to get bored with each of them are in the very small minority.

Standard is boring because it's centralized.

You tell me.

As a new player returning to magic, I enjoy standard. Everyone loooooves EDH, but that's not how magic was made. And before I get into modern or legacy, I'd like to play a constructed format that allows for enjoyable play.

Truth. I can't believe retards who hate on pricy decks don't understand this. The expensive decks are often that way because they're good. And they're only good because they beat up other good decks.

That being said, I did play against a guy who had playsets of each of the original Eldrazi Titans in his deck, vastly outpacing the most expensive good decks at the time and he still lost like a bitch. Because when your average starting hand is 3 lands, Quicksilver Amulet, Ulamog, Ulamog, Emrakul I don't know how the fuck you plan on surviving.

Focus on getting good.

I know that sound demeaning but listen up. If you were good before you quit, you wouldn't have to ask for help easing back into the game at this point when you return because you will have had the skills to know exactly what you would have to do to get back into the game with minimal effort and discomfort.

When someone walks into a room and asks, "what's good/fun" absolutely everyone from the worst to the best player thinks they're the laziest motherfucker on the planet.

The main issue I'm seeing is the lack of hard counters to top tier decks, specifically vehicles. The format needs balancing but wizards doesn't let that happen. I look to hearthstone where there are high tier decks, but no deck is garunteed a win every time.

Magic is trash hearthstone is better

yes and no

the Pro Tour is a very inbred format with teams trying to jocky one another by figuring out what the majority of the field is going to look like

in this case they all hive minded and predicted that the Saheeli deck would be the majority and picked the deck that is designed to beat that deck but instaed just ended up making that the majority deck instead
expect the meta to shift a bit more but my guess is that it settles down with the top three being
1. Mardu Vehicles
2. G/B snek goodstuff
3. Jeskai Saheeli

the biggest issues with standard are kind of evident with this pro tour though
lack of any blue representation even in like the top 16 is pretty disgusting and the lack of any real red deck is also sad with decks only throwing in red as a shitty splash color for OP removal cards

lots of other issues exist right now but most of them stem back to one or two major underlying conditions
1. Lack of good hate cards
Emrakul and Vehicles are two perfect examples of cards that are really really pushed but wouldn't have been nearly as oppressive and gay if the dev team had just sat back and thought for two seconds to print an easy 1 or 2 super efficient super splashable super easy hate card against Eldrazi/colorless spells/artifacts/vehicles
that one card is pretty much all that is needed to stop this boring ass format and blow things open but on a higher level powerful and efficient hate cards need to come back. No more of these Cancel with upside, just give us counterspell, no more of this XXR(destroy X artifacts and get something extra XD) just give us Ancient Grudge. Simple, easy, efficient hate.

2. Too much focus in set development being placed on limited and EDH. Two formats that are meant to be played FOR FUN are reducing the power level of cards and forcing the bulk of a sets strength onto 5-10 mythics and rares driving prices sky high. Print strong commons, stop balancing around EDH

this is actually wrong
both HS and Magic are suffering from the exact same problem right now

early game agro cards are far to efficient and decent hate cards don't exist so the formats have become degenerate with 1 or 2 decks making up 90% of the metagame with the objective to win by turn 4

Because the top decks have been absurdly dominant lately. I know that standard has always had top tier decks, but shit, even Rhino format wasn't this bad where there was at least esper dragons, jeskai tempo, r/g aggro, and some other decks. Mardu vehicles smashes everything, B/G aggro smashes everything not named Mardu vehicles. I'm a predominately aggro player, but this shit is just stupid. Vehicles are immune to sorcery removal, gideon is immune to damn near everything, and even IF you somehow manage to get rid of the gideon/vehicles, you still have an army of one mana 2/3s, one mana 3/2s with sometimes first strike, 3/2 artifacts that can bring themselves back, and more to deal with. It's just too much for any deck to handle. No removal is efficient enough to deal with it, not even fatal push.

seriously fuck gideon they need to either find a new mechanic or kill him off.

at the very least the fucking prevent damage on top of the indestructibility needs to fucking go holy shit stick to one so we have one fucking card that can deal with him

There's more than one, but the deck that ran stasis snare/quarantine field died and who the hell runs ruinous path, BB1 at sorcery speed? I suppose any player redirect burn spell too, but that's assuming gideon isn't at 4 counters so shock, unlicensed disintegration's side burn, temper, ect. only work if gideon has 3 or 2 counters on it on your turn or before main phase.

Without the damage prevention clause, it wouldn't matter if he was indestructible, any amount of damage at all would remove loyalty counters.

I just feel like at the moment they're just holding off on printing an Instant removal spell that smokes both Artifacts and Creatures.

Can't have your dominant mechanic get slapped by some sort of Abrupt Decay sort of thing. Let players stew with it for 3 months then have them sing your praises when you print the deck-slayer in the next set.

Sure, we didn't see the graveyard hoser in Kaladesh, which doesn't lend any support to my theory, but you know as well as I do that sort of crap is not too far off from their typical line of thinking.

then remove the indestructible.
there should be some fucking risk to turning him into a creature outside of exile effects.

>As long as Gideon ~ is a creature combat damage does not cause it to lose loyalty counters
There i fixed it.

Reprint Swords to plowshares
Reprint counterspell/brainstorm
Reprint Bolt

BAAAAACK IN MY DAYS

Mono red is the budget competitive option and can win you big tournaments with a little luck.

Those days are long gone. Wotc needs everyone to buy playsets of mythics for every expansion to make their share holders happy.

>back in my day
>post innistrad

Make Conspiracy standard legal

Yeah I gotta agree with this. All of their improvements in their r&d process seem to make the game less fun.

Okay, well to be fair cockatrice is 100% free and unless your grinding out 6 hours of games straight the crashes are barely noticible.

>can't beat draw-go
>in today's festival of aggro
>kek

>Mostly spikes play standard
>timmies get bullied out of it 'cause they can't have fun/ must pay $400 to keep up with spikes
>EDH are Jhonny/timmy friendly
>play EDH have lots of fun
>barely see any spikes there

feels good man

Krenko cost me about 100 dollars to get to its current incarnation and it can get expensive decks out of nowhere.

>Spikes keep trying to encroach on EDH at my store
>Wizards keeps printing Spike-level cards for EDH

Dark times are ahead, I can feel it in my bones.

When the current meta makes Hearthstone's meta look healthy, there is something wrong.

To hate standard would be to acknowledge it as a legitimate format like legacy, soo i guess not much

>Wizards keeps printing Spike-level cards for EDH
What the fuck are you talking about. The vast majority of EDH cards in the Commander sets are hot fucking garbage.

And I don't understand what is wrong about nut cards in EDH, the entire format is built around the dumbest shit in the history of the game. It is the foundation of the game. The most "spike" cards are cards that have already been printed like dual lands, fetchlands, Coalition Relic, and fatties like Gristlebrand.

I don't understand your frustration with people suddenly deciding to "next level" your metagame. It's already the highest fucking level. Welcome to all Magic, Spikes are going to appear and force everyone else to grow up if your community grows enough. Either it stays small and inbred or you grow it by having to grow up yourself.

not on my format you huge..gay.. zomboman

now go back to modern and let me play my issamaru fun deck

serious question, though: what the fuck is up with Development? Like, what was the last set that wasn't totally fucked up by Development? Fate Reforged? That was two years ago now. How have we seriously had two solid years of Development fucking up every set they get their hands on?

I don't think it's a design problem - there have been a few rocky sets from a design point of view but there's also been a lot of great really cool design. But when it comes to stuff like costing cards, randomly making everything a 2/3, printing horribly unfun cards that are way too dominant, and other general fuckery, it's a really stupendous run of awful bullshit. Honestly, I think the blame has to be placed squarely on Development's shoulders, and we've had a bunch of really bad standards to show for it.

At what point does Wizards have to really look and reconsider what's going on with Development? How have they really been this consistently bad at doing their jobs? What happened, guys?

Nigga, control isn't that strong. Play aggro, get in low, and murder them. Control shits on greedy midrange decks. Go lower to the ground or accept the bad matchup.

cause its objectively trash

Vial Smasher is the spikiest shit since True-Name Nemesis.

Oh, it's the EDH guy again.
Cyclonic Rift is 7 mana and only used in one Format.
>Polymorph is red now (inb4 warp world, which was made because they wanted to help mono R decks, which is Also Why that new card was made.) Pongify is planar chaos, a set all about alternate ideas on what colors should do.
>Blaming every decision on MaRo ever
Sure WotC has been missing, but it's not 100%, and MaRo isn't the end all of everything. If anything, complain to Development.
Literally just Detention sphere on a stick. There's precedent for it.

The thing with EDH is that the Format is overall bad competitive-wise and requires a agreement between all players to not exceed a certain power level. This is apparent when your fine deck is either overpowers another playgroup or gets Destroyed by another.

Honestly people first of all shouldn't see Spikes as a enemy, because at the end of the day we all play the same game. What's needed is a way to agree what's fine and what is not, and probably just giving Control of the Banlist to Wizards.

PANDA'D

How can human men even compete?

>Shamanstone in 2017

what? a 2/3 that dies to everything and does 4-6 damage to a random opponent every turn is spikey? I don't think so. Also true-name is only spikey in legacy, nobody plays it in edh.

I don't understand why people shit on those that like to play "competitive" edh. Me and my playgroup build highly tuned decks that are fun to play against each other, but obviously I would never bring one to my lgs commander night. Some people just like to play with the best cards printed, and edh is really the only format you can use cards like sol ring, mana crypt, yawgwill, necro, treasure cruise, survival, etc. Vintage has far fewer players and you also need power, so it is much more expensive. I think edh is fun in all forms as long as the decks in a pod are approximately equal in power level.

I think the problem is that ever since RTR, development has tried to curate the standard environment to what they deem "fun". To do this they "push" certain rares and mythics for standard (copter, torrential gearhulk, jvp, siege rhino, etc). This leads to decks that build themselves as well as the same 5-10 cards showing up in every deck, because development has decided that those will be the most powerful, standard-defining cards.

the last format I can remember that wasn't like that was scars-innistrad. For the most part, I think standard was better before they decided to push their own view of standard onto the format. Obviously there were some bad ones, like cawblade and affinity, but at least those were somewhat interesting. the worst part about recent standards for me has been that they are incredibly boring. I only hope that they can realize what they are doing wrong and do something to make standard interesting and fun again.

>mythic rarities are allegedly reserved for giant flashy cards, story cards, and PW.
>some nerd working at wizards said they want to make story cards more powerful and keystones in decks
>to do this, it means that mythic cards will get a bump in power level, because story happening cards are mythic levels which is what they want people to be playing
I'm a therosbabby, when did this start? The obvious answer is BFZ where the gatewatch bullshit started but I want to know if there was a prior set like it. DTK maybe, but most of those cards that everyone ran was mostly rares right? CoCo, the commands, den protector, ect. The only exception I can think of is deathmist raptor.

Hell, even some of the design problems have been Development telling Design 'no we can't do that' or 'no we need to do that' in advance of development actually being in charge of the set
Like Support being as boring as it is, rather than at least doing something more than just putting counters on critters (it used to put counters on walkers as well, which was at least SOMETHING interesting)

Why does Gideon get to still be a planeswalker while dragon man becomes just a creature anyways?

There isn't enough chase mythics in the format

Because Gideon is part of the Jacetice League

As a Duel Commander player I don't know why anybody feels any reason to use our metagame as a reason to be angry about anything regarding Wizards' fuck ups.

Fuck off, we know we're not important, use your fucking brain to think of better reasons to hate on Wizards than cherry picking shit like True Name or Vial Smasher, both of whom should be fucking joke creatures in regular EDH.

It was definitely around FRF and DTK. FRF had things like Warden of the First Tree, Monastery Mentor, and Soulfire Grand Master that were super pushed, and then Deathmist Raptor in FRF.

Also, the justification wasn't about the story. If I recall correctly, the justification was that they felt that mythics weren't "resonating" enough with competitive players and they wanted to make sure that they printed mythics for competitive players. Which is, in my mind, a pretty egregious bullshit justification for a money grab. but what are you going to do?

Please don't be disrespectful of the story

Optimal playsets have gotten ridiculous. At first it was lands, now it's planeswalkers, lands, super creatures and choice rares

>You might not care, but others do!

>Magic is trash hearthstone is better

You mean the game that has literally two viable decks right now? Both of which are aggro decks based around pirates?

Constructed is awful
>Print strictly superior creatures at same/lower CMC
>But it's rarer so it's okay
1G to get a vanilla 2/2, or pay 1G for a 2/3 vigilance that grows into a 4/5
It's not even legendary so they can't even use that as an excuse.

It really bothers me that they don't seem to have any set "price" for abilities. They just print whatever they feel like and especially mythics seem like they get to do just about anything and get away with it just because they're mythic. They need to sit down and decide exactly how good a creature that costs X mana is allowed to be, then literally never print a creature that's better or worse than that at that cost.

If you fill your sets' lower rarities with trash cards, all it does is make it so that only a handful of cards in any given set are relevant and the rest might as well not exist.

There is no better feeling than sticking an early game bloodmoon.

This is literally how Magic has always worked to some extent. The problems arise when there's a very narrow range of cards that are actually Good Enough, or when way too many of them are in the higher rarities.

Again, this is to a large extent how magic has always worked. There's definitely a push and a pull, and peaks and troughs, but it's always going to be true that a relatively small subset of cards are relevant for competitive constructed purposes. That's just the way it is. That's also why formats besides competitive constructed exist. And forcing everything to fit some Procrustean mold would make the game way more boring and less varied.

The solution here is: One, distribute the power level of cards more evenly, instead of having cases where there is an extremely small set of cards with extremely high power. Two, make sure that the highest power band of cards isn't 100% aligned with the highest rarity band of cards. Three, make sure you print different and varied types of cards, especially powerful and flexible "answer" cards. And all of those are things they've done pretty well at various times in the past. It's just for whatever reason not something that they're any good at right now. For whatever reason (my guess is that their design philosophy is somewhat flawed and development is just straight-up incompetent).

When Reflector Mage got banned, it honestly seemed like a desperate move to avoid banning Gideon. Because MUH WALKERS.

Also, literally every set since Origins has been a few chase rares/mythics that are so much more powerful than everything else in the set:

Origins: Baby Jace, Baby Nissa, Baby Liliana, Hangarback

BFZ: Literally just Gideon and Ulamog. Pathetic. Without Expeditions, this set would have been Dragon's Maze 2.0.

OGW: Kalitas, Koz Return, TKS, Smasher, 3 Mana Nissa

SOI: Nahiri, Avacyn, Jace, Tracker, Thing in the Ice

EMN: Aside from the collosal disaster that was Emrakul, no complaints here.

Kaladesh: Greenhulk, Bluehulk, Chandra, Copter

Aether Revolt: This one's actually very good.

So aside from Eldritch Moon and Aether Revolt, all these sets are a few chase rares with everything else being unplayable garbage.

I switched to legacy once Innistrad was over. Only 'redemable' sets after Innistrad were R2R and Khans, everything else has been boring mudane shit. Switching to legacy was the best decision I've made. The meta is balanced, your cards retain value, and the games are actually fun.