Dragon Monarchs

Why wouldn't a sentient Dragon Eat a princess? He could have a little more fun with it too, Maybe taunting the heroes.

This is actually a setting seed I was playing with for a while, mixing the Empire from Warhammer Fantasy with Draconic Dukes, Dragon Blooded that have family trees that may or may not resemble the Habsburgs (gonna keep that boodline pure), and humans as 2nd class citizens just because dragons will be dragons.

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With your traditional dragon they're going to direct all their efforts towards acquiring wealth with little regard for the well being of the kingdom. Essentially kleptocracts to the nth degree.
This is a pretty good starting place for some sort of blunt social commentary but is pretty limited in what kinds of kingdoms it can produce.

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You would have to have travel permits to leave the country.

>Give me back my catttle-eating, princess-kidnapping monsters.
They never existed, grognard faggot. If Tolkien's not old enough for you, they were already like this in the Holy Bible.

Kinky

They would be incredibly strange, being giant magic lizards wearing a "human" skin. It's more likely the fact they're a dragon is fairly secret to most.

what do you mean?

Why would you keep it in secret? Who would defy the rule of a literal dragon?

Actually, for most of the people, it would not be much different. Common folk are not gonna have any contact with royalty anyways. Maybe they will be more fearful of the power of their overlord than normal, but that's really it and if they're starving to death they will revolt anyways since a lot of peasant revolts were made against the nobility and not the king. The nobles will probably be easier to control by the state, which means that it will be a relatively centralized and orderly kingdom compared to it's neighbours unless the dragon simply gives no fucks about improving his land (which may be). As a counterpart to the prosperity caused by this, a kingdom ruled by a creature capable of living hundreds of years may suffer an steroid-ridden version of the stagnation caused by a lot of historical long-living monarchs.

Having a dragon-king has it's most important consequences in diplomacy and foreign relations. For starters relationships between states will be harder, specially if marriage based alliances are a thing (and they probably are). Also the dragon kingdom will probably be perceived as powerful and threatening, which can cause coalitions against it. In a sense the dragon kingdom will be in a situation similar to the Habsburgs who were powerful but had a small amount of allies and an enormous amount of enemies of very different nature. The dragon would need to be very careful to not do any movements that can be perceived as aggressive.

Something to with honey and flies?

If people come to kill you because they know you're a dragon, they will come to kill you too if they believe you're a human. And in greater numbers. Tyranical rich humans are easier to kill than tyranical rich dragons.

So unless you enjoy surprising people who comes to kill you, there's no real motivation to conceal your identity.

This changes if there's some kind of cultural or religious stigma specifically against dragons, of course, but OP never said there was one.

Just a suggestion, I don't know what that user thinks.

They are not. The devil gets called a dragon though. But more like an insult I believe.
The sad truth is that the intelligent dragons in Tolkien and other modern dragons find their roots in Fafnir from the legend of Sigurd. But Fafnir wasn't a dragon at all, he just had the shape of one.

If that's your reasoning, then you want giant serpents since they are old school dragons, e.g. Tiamat and whatnot.

I should specifically said reptiles, not lizards. In either case they're not humanoid, they're not warm-blooded, they do not feel or express emotions as humanoids. They have origins in the Time Before.

They keep it secret because it's easier to rule as a humanoid, then as a dragon. The reptile is the enemy of the mammal, better to wear the face of the ally than the enemy. They still carry and air of mystery around them, and while humanoid in form, this mask is distinctly "other" adding to the mystery.

They may come to try and kill a dragon, they will come to try and kill a corrupt human. They will be a bit reluctant to try and kill a "thing" in human skin.

Is that from a fanfic?

>They have origins in the Time Before.
>The reptile is the enemy of the mammal, better to wear the face of the ally than the enemy.
Why do people come into a broad hypothetical question thread with the preconceived notions of their own special setting and spouting those off as facts?

Why don't you pose those thoughts as questions, so that you can contribute to the thread and maybe the discussion will help you build upon your own ideas and settings?

Chances are excellent you would never find out because they would be ruling by proxy rather than doing the ruling themselves.

We're talking about dragons. There is no "fanfic" here, just common conceptions.

Of course we're going to come into a hypothetical question thread with our own conceptions. What you consider a dragon is not necessarily the same as what I consider a dragon.

Some people like their dragons are fundamental forces of nature. Others like them with very feline behaviour. I just like them as immense magical reptiles. Reptiles aren't human, they don't express emotions as we do.

>We're talking about dragons. There is no "fanfic" here, just common conceptions.

>They have origins in the Time Before.
>The reptile is the enemy of the mammal, better to wear the face of the ally than the enemy.
>common conceptions

>Time Before
>Prehistoric
Reptiles originate in prehistoric times.

>The reptile is the enemy of the mammal
Mammals overtook the world after the fall of the dinosaurs. Of course they're the enemy.

user, this is stupid. There's no reason to presume that, in a fantasy setting, dragons have existed any longer than mortals have. Dinosaurs don't have anything to do with this.

>He doesn't like his dragons to be like dinosaurs.
>He doesn't like his dragons and giants to originate from prehistoric times, having kaiju battles over the fate of the world.

I don't want to play in your kinds of games.

I just see dragons as magical beings, pure power wrapped in scales.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I prefer my dragons to be firebreathing T-rexes with wings capable of flight in place of their shitty little arms. But this is stupid. First, "dragons existed long before the mortal races came into being" is not a common conception, because most fantasy settings have everything created at once. Second, do you really think that when a lizard looks at you, he thinks to himself "A mammal! He is my enemy, because ever since the age of reptiles ended mammals have been running the show from a global view of biodiversity"? No, he thinks you're his enemy because you're one or more of the following without being a mate as well
>rival for food supply
>prey item
>potential predator

>First, "dragons existed long before the mortal races came into being" is not a common conception

In most cases of D&D worlds it is. Says in the 5e Monster Manual Dragons were one of the first things to walk the world, with Giants coming very soon after.

>Second, do you really think that when a lizard looks at you, he thinks to himself "A mammal! He is my enemy, because ever since the age of reptiles ended mammals have been running the show from a global view of biodiversity"

No, but I don't care what the animal ACTUALLY thinks, I only care what makes a cool or interesting scenario to play in. Dragons, being creatures of prehistoric times, once worshiped as demigods by the reptilemen empires of the Time Before, whose glories are now lost to time, whose machinations are considered legend or conspiracy.

Ultimately I prefer my fantasy pulpy as hell.

>Of course we're going to come into a hypothetical question thread with our own conceptions
That doesn't mean you have to run around spouting nonsense as fact and being unhelpful. It's essentially the same as making a thread asking for help and ideas about an emperor in your setting and someone coming in and saying that it doesn't matter because the Emperor is dead asleep and a psychic beacon for all humanity and doesn't need to worry about politics or having any interesting problems.

It's not helpful. And you know what they say about people who assume.

>Mammals overtook the world after the fall of the dinosaurs. Of course they're the enemy.
That's a hell of a stretch. In nature it's a free for all. Reptiles, fish, mammals eat their own kind all the time.

You're implying that there's some sort of blood feud between cold blooded and warm blooded animals simply because "lol lizards and snakes are like dinosaurs!"

So the fuck are birds, genius. Literally fucking modern little shitty dinosaurs.

>Says in the 5e Monster Manual Dragons were one of the first things to walk the world, with Giants coming very soon after.
And where does it say that they were around for untold eons before the mortal races were created? This prehistoric otherness you go on about just isn't there.

>Dragons, being creatures of prehistoric times, once worshiped as demigods by the reptilemen empires of the Time Before, whose glories are now lost to time, whose machinations are considered legend or conspiracy.
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Most peasants and serfs only see the monarch on parade days, and their lives are already about as straightforward and lowly as you can get, so I imagine the only difference would be that parade day is SUPER exciting since there's gonna be a giant dragon flying around as opposed to a dude or a chick riding a horse.

Being a noble in such a kingdom would potentially be more dangerous, but by-and-large since the ruler is a fucking dragon and not a chick or a dude who could, if necessary, be killed by a knife to the back, they'd probably keep their squabbles to themselves.

Being a knight would be cool. I imagine there would be a lot of mythology and heraldry concerning dragons and the like, and since the nobility are being well behaved you have a lot more time to pursue your own interests rather than fight skirmishes. I actually imagine you'd see a lot more decency and honour among the knights since the kingdom is stable.

Of course, all this effectively assumes that the dragon is sitting atop the kingdom AS a treasured hoard, and not using the kingdom to make a hoard, in which case it's tyrant fascism nightmare land as the dragon threatens everyone into giving him/her all their money and tolerates their existence only as long as they continue paying the draconian tax rates.

>That doesn't mean you have to run around spouting nonsense as fact and being unhelpful. It's essentially the same as making a thread asking for help and ideas about an emperor in your setting and someone coming in and saying that it doesn't matter because the Emperor is dead asleep and a psychic beacon for all humanity and doesn't need to worry about politics or having any interesting problems.

Having this attitude will get you nowhere. Use answers for inspirations. If something doesn't fit with your preconceived notions or world, maybe you can draw just a little something from it. Thinking everyone should have the same expectations as you is foolish.

>You're implying that there's some sort of blood feud between cold blooded and warm blooded animals simply because "lol lizards and snakes are like dinosaurs!"

The intelligent ones sure, since it's a dogma that's persisted for eons from the survivng stone tablets and records written in the reptilian language of their prehistoric empire, what's jealously guarded by the primitive reptile-men tribes today.

>So the fuck are birds, genius.
A weird as shit middle ground.

I'm going to stop arguing with people who hate fun and think everyone should think as they do.

>goes on about ancient reptilian empires ruled over by dragons like it's an integral part of 90% of fantasy settings
>"Thinking everyone should have the same expectations as you is foolish."
Oh that is just rich.

What about Dragon Blooded nobles backstabbing each other for more power while they try to hide the fact that their Dragon Emperor has gone insane with age?

Holy shit, you're a piece of work.

>goes on about ancient reptilian empires ruled over by dragons like it's an integral part of 90% of fantasy settings

When the fuck did I ever imply that? Do our answers have to comply with most of the fantasy shit out there? That's stupid as shit.

>Dragon-Blooded

Are you sure we aren't playing Exalted?

I've always thought of modern!dragons as bankers. Besides the fact that this gives them an excuse to sleep on gigantic piles of gold dragons can afford to play the long game and carve their ledgers in actual stone. Sure, lending out money is painful but there's the promise of more money in return. Once paper money takes off a dragon never has to loose it's treasure again.

Never read up on it sorry.

say, you wouldnt happen to be in my larp group would you?

I was going for a noblebright take on the idea, while that's more nobledark or even grimdark.

I'm an edgelord :)

"Anything can be fucked if you're creative enough" -King Connor McFlametongue

That's fine. I like nobledark as well, I just wasn't sure what you were getting at.

No worries.

Exactly.

Also a good source of easy to use paperwork slaves.

Chrono Trigger, anyone?

OP here (briefly).
I am not in any LARP groups, no. I am currently in a few DnD campaigns, one of which I'm hosting, and joining a Deathwatch game soon.

Fucking this.

Don't forget continuity. The fact that the same dragon will be outliving generations of neighboring non-dragon dynasties (except maybe elves, in *some* settings). And it will be getting more powerful throughout its reign. If you want to stop it, better do it early.

In the campaign I ran that I used this idea, the players chimped out on that principle despite the dragon not being terrifically evil or uncooperative. of course they were encouraged to do this by friendly NPC who was secretly a good dragon in disguise, so reptilians were still in control

Absolutely love this game.
Also, on topic, the Reptites are a good example of an early reptilian culture.

Honestly, depends entirely on the dragon, assuming standard dragon, probably not much different from more tyrannical rulers prone to heavy taxation
+/- devouring peasants

I could see either/or, actually for a long term ruler/one that rules over a massive kingdom, a bit of both is probably optimal

>Why do people come into a broad hypothetical question thread with the preconceived notions of their own special setting and spouting those off as facts?
Why wouldn't they?
It makes it easier to answer it and can lead to a wider amount of ideas shared

> +/- devouring peasants.

Actually, I've thought that Feeding criminals to a dragon would be a good arrangement. Think about it: low maintainance costs for prison infrastructure, Higher deterrant, happy dragon (Be it enemy or, in this case, ruler).

>Evil dragoness queen who rules over a large powerful nation has kidnapped the princess of the PC's smaller, weaker nation
>PCs were sent to rescue her under the guise of trying to negotiate the impossible ransom demanded for the princess's safe return
>PCs fail and get captured, dragon ruler openly admitted to knowing the PC's true mission in advanced
>Dragoness gleefully taunts the PCs and the princess about how their nation is getting invaded right now now that it's greatest defenders have left it
>To rub salt in the wounds the dragoness decides to have some fun before killing them, gloating and taunting the party about what dragons normally do to captured princess and as well as implying all the sorts of things the stories leave out as it's forked tongue snakes under the princess's clothes
>If the PCs are unable to escape before the dragoness finishes "playing" with her food right in front of them they're made to watch as the princess is slowly consumed alive and whole
>Dragoness then saunters over to the party, teasing them about how it's time for her second course
Fetishes aside, imprisonment is actually a fairly modern way of punishing criminals, historically it was mostly used ONLY as a way of holding the prisoner until the actual punishment could be applied (and if not already determined, until a suitable one could be thought of)
Punishments for crimes back then were mostly in the form executions, mutilation, corporal punishments, and shaming
Assuming standard a somewhat historical psudo-middle age setting there wouldn't be any prison infrastructure except for the equivalent of an overnight holding cell, a (Usually) gilded for politically sensitive prisoners, and/or something to keep a lot of disposable people on hand run by a sadist with power

Elaborating on my second thought , "Throw them in the dungeon and let them rot" was mostly done in stories to show how cruel the ruler was, both showing they HAVE a dungeon that can keep someone long term and to show how the person would be kept locked up so they could be kept on hand to torture with no care about justice or how the ruler intends to kill them via starvation instead of a "nicer" way of executing them

Vorefag time already?
My body is ready

>Vorefag time already?
Either/or
Though I would also be up for discussing a hypothetical nation ruled by a dragoness

I'd have instead had her use magic to turn them into their body mass worht of subservient kobolds, the secret back bone of her kingdom

An option I'd be fine with, well as long as they somehow retain their sense of self, regardless I do love the idea of a tyrannical dragon queen using magic (or really anything) to reduce her former enemies to something fit only to worship her glorious dragonic form like the god empress she is, slowly growing to understand and despite their wishes even love their place as mere toys to serve her desires and lusts, with the ever present threat hanging over their heads of her eating them if they displease their new goddess, or even if she just gets bored

each one has the memories of their original up to the point of the split, but they vary wildly in form and breed of specific kobold

Depends. If it's Borys, I don't feel like being sacrificed today.

Personally would prefer if it was just one mind, but that's up to the dragoness isn't it?Do they stay "them" or is there a huge amount of mind alteration going on?

themselves at the start with room for divergence, the slow burn of gradual acclimation to their new selves

I know of the Dragon Blooded in Exalted but never bothered to read about them. I hope I didn't just describe them word for word.

What I'm going for is basically the Deep Ones as Dragons along with Aurthorian overtones as well

I actually think it's more a kin to some of the early lore for D&D's dragonborn

Exalted definitely doesn't own anything about the concept of the dragon blooded. They're basically a pastiche of Melniboneans and Element Benders.

"Dragon Blooded" is just a poetic name, DBs aren't genetically related to Dragons in Exalted, just like Dragonborn in 3e are not born of dragons or born that way and Hellbred are not bred in hell or bred in any way.

>I hope I didn't just describe them word for word.

You didn't.

Exalted Dragon Blooded: The dragon gods (what would be considered gods in any D&D setting, like the Valar would be considered gods in D&D as well) gave inheritable, elemental themed power to 9k women and 1k men. Mass inbreeding resulted in an army of super soldiers. Cross breeding between humans and dragons happens has literally nothing to do with dragon blooded, that produces god blooded, DBs have no draconic features whatsoever.

D&D Dragon Blooded: They are, uh... related to dragons. What a fucking surprise.

>What would it be like to live under the rule of a dragon King or Queen?

You mean Athas?

WE

Actually Dragon Kangz are really fuckin cool bits of lore. I especially find it intriguing how they were able to create the Templars with the aid of rare creatures called an Elemental Vortex. There isn't much like them anywhere.

>That's stupid as shit
Much like your reptile v. mammal blood feud thing m8.

Also dinosaurs were most likely warm-blooded.

You pay taxes and work your plot of land as usual.

/thread.

Boring though

That's true for the peasants at least, but what about adventurers?

No one wants to talk dragon rules?

They made it illegal. Discussion leads to political awareness.

What about a dragon who is democratically-elected because they're actually a pretty good ruler?

I think the "dragon rules a kingdom with an iron fist" thing is an interesting concept, but there's other ways to have a dragon ruler.

>Much like your reptile v. mammal blood feud thing m8

Nah, it adds a weird evocative element to the world, that draws on dinosaurs, and the serpent-men of Conan, and reptilian consipracy theory. Weird fun stuff.

>Also dinosaurs were most likely warm-blooded.

I don't give a shit about the actual scientific dinosaurs.

I care about the pulp dinosaurs. Those dinosaurs don't have feathers, have a whole lost island to themselves, and can be resurrected from fossils.

Hell I have a demilich dracolich that's straight up a black oozing t-rex skull carried on a palanquin of reptilemen. This skull is like the religious leader of the Black Wing sect of the Fivefold Temple of the Glistening Mother.

This.

Earliest Dragonborn lore was that they were made when you totally gave yourself over to Bahamut, and then were put into a transmutation egg where your body would morph into a Draconic form. People saw it as scaly bullshit, I saw it as body horror goodness.

That's why Dragonborn have tits by the way, they were originally other humanoids.

>That's why Dragonborn have tits by the way, they were originally other humanoids.
I always assumed dragons were more like something that would have come from the part of the evolutionary tree where mammals and reptiles branched off so them having mammalian traits like hair or tits doesn't seem out of place for me

Surely, all problems would be scaled up.

our campaign's BBEG is a stereotypical evil queen who became a dragon by drinking a shit load of dragon blood which allowed her to re-animate a dragon corpse as her new body, leaving her human body behind as her phylactery, tended to by her handmaidens as if she has just fallen asleep whenever she isn't using it

So she's both Sleeping Beauty and Maleficent?

>PCs try to rescue princess cursed to sleep forever by the dragoness
>Realize too late the princess IS the dragoness, or at least stole her body

CARLOS

And Mutare.

Man, now I want to do a setting with something like this.
>PCs visiting foreign land
>nobility uses a lot of dragon imagery but who doesn't?
>occasional reference to the "dragon throne" or some such thing
>have the king turn out later to be a dragon and everyone is just kinda "yeah, what about it?"
I mean, assuming that your dragon lives for thousands of years, unless the kingdom is relatively new there are going to be a lot of people who think its pretty normal. Would only take a couple generations for people to get used to it.