Lurker here, noticed that the thread died

60 is kind of retarded but I'd consider as high as 30 or 40 depending on how fast you wanted to move them.

Are there doomsday piles without LED?

Yes but the starting mana requirements are often significantly higher. Imagine a basic basic storm pile like Ideas Unbound, LED, Probe, LED, Burning Wish. The pile would still work if you replaced those LEDs wit Dark Rituals, but you would need UUBBR available after casting Doomsday instead of just UU. That's pretty simplified but you get the idea. Part of why Null Rod is such a pain in the ass.

...

Who cares

New to legacy here, building burn.
Will I perform well in a mixed environment?
I've been playing for quite some time and have a solid grasp of the rules and card interactions.

I'll buy any playset of FBB dark rits, since the last thread made me want them :^)

Bump. When will WOTC finally succumb to the pleas of the man babies and ban Miracles? What will they ban from it?

Kind of like these?
Too bad the Dark Petition doesn't really look foil at all in the picture.

Never ever. If they do though id bet terminus or sensei's

>FtV lore cabal rits
One of our shops players is switching to Rb reanimator with all ftv where he can get them and hideous alters for the rest. he is letting a local chibi artist do his phyrexian script elesh norn

Sounds like my nigga.

Burn is a "fair" deck, in that it doesn't just vomit its hand and deck onto the table and win. It's not a BAD deck by any stretch, and Price of Progress/blood moon can catch a lot of decks with their pants down.

That said, it lacks the explosive power of most of the combo decks and has little way outside Eidolon/pyrostatic pillar to interact favorably with them, which may be too slow.

It'll always be a tier 2 deck, and you can beat top tier decks with consistent solid play and a little luck, but don't expect to be winning a SCG 5k with it.

Honestly I think this post understates Burn's ability to perform well in large events. There are plenty of instances of it making top16 or better in events with 200+ people in the past 2 years or so. You can reasonably expect to perform well if you know the deck well and metagame correctly.

I picked them up because they were cheap and I had store credit. Didn't know what else to get, since I have TES and DDFT finished but haven't tried ANT yet.

How far apart are the three decks anyways? And how different are they to play?

In terms of card choice they aren't that far apart, but they all play pretty differently. TES aims for speed but often uses non-deterministic kills (Ad Nauseam or Empty the Warrens). ANT takes a bit longer to go off but generally sets up for a deterministic kill if possible (Tendrils via PiF loop or tutor chain). DDFT only has deterministic kills, and can worm its way through hate the others can't. The price it pays for this flexibility is a slight decrease in speed compared to the other 2, and increased difficulty of play/decreased forgiving-ness due to the all-in nature of the titular card.

>COLD
>DEAD
>HANDS

Say goodbye to terminus next banlist update friend :^)

>man babies
>reasonable people who think the format shouldn't have a tier 0 deck

>He doesn't play the superior version with Karakas + Venser.
Why even play?

If you think miracles is tier 0, then I'm sorry to tell you friend, but you're a manbaby.

The banned Eldrazi deck in Modern was tier 0 and hit 30+ % of the metagame. Miracles is ~15% right now. Looking back through the results of large events for the past couple years, only GP Columbus last year had egregious numbers of Miracles, with 8 copies in the top 16. The deck is solidly tier 1 and likely will be forever unless it is banned. But it needs another 10-15% of the meta for it to reach tier 0.

Bumperino. let's not let this one die. Any of you built a local legacy scene from the ground up? How did you do it?

Hey, memers. What do you think about the post package in eldrazi? It's certainly cheaper, but I assume not as effective.

I've heard about this, but never actually seen it. I'll tell you what I told my friend who just bought into manaless on modo with no format experience: "seems bad"

Is there any way I could find out what the "better" decks are? I dont have many people to play and practice with. Are there games/tournaments I can watch of the most recent stuff being played?

I realize a list is up in the OP by the way, I mean how they're played.

Well there is mtggoldfish, which has a list of decks that 5-0 recent mtgo leagues or did well at major tournaments. There is also mtgtop8, which collects results from a bunch of different tournaments. Thats usually where I go to see the current trends in deck popularity.

Seems too slow, the biggest guy in Eldrazi is Reality Smasher at 5 iirc. If you're putting in a post package it might be worth including Newlamog as a 1-2 of, since he would also help you beat blowout hate cards like Ensnaring Bridge.

ChannelFireball has a decent amount of legacy video content on their site. There are also plenty of videos of SCG coverage on youtube, but you don't always get a great idea of why the players make the plays they do.

There's something magical about flipping the good old 3-Ball to the OmniTell players SnT game one. That is all.
/blog

I had the same idea, but I think I'll give it a try. From the lists I see the curse is slightly higher with ulamog and sower, endbringer. I also think it'll be easier to active eye of ugin with posts.

However, turn one chalice is less likely...

so i picked up magic a while back, because all my friends play it and i used to play in middle school so i figured why not?

so i dug out my old deck and im fairly certain its bad. im planning on going down to card kingdom next weekend and picking up some cards to fix it.

any recommendations? here's the deck currently (ive been adding to it with my collection i dug up) :

plains x 9
swamp x 10
myr battlesphere x 4
myr propagator x 2
myr reservoir x 2
myr incubator x 4
myrsmith x 4
lodestone myr x 2
hovermyr x 2
myr superion x 1
myr galvanizer x 1 (gonna pick up 3 more of him)
alloy myr x 1
perilous myr x 1
myr welder x 1
iron myr x 1
leaden myr x 1
golden myr x 2
maw of the obzedat x 1
origin spellbomb x 2
duress x 1
AWOL x 1
parasitic implant x 1
inspired charge x 3
dreamstone hedron x 1
bronze calendar x 1
im rubber, youre glue x 1

Rate my pico-budget jank dank. Any suggestions?

4 Ash Zealot
4 Brimstone Volley
4 Burnout
4 Immolating Souleater
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Lava Blister
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Skullscorch
4 Temur Battle Rage
20 Mountain

>im rubber, youre glue x 1
I'm pretty sure that isn't legal in legacy.

i couldnt find a thread to ask about casual so i asked here. sorry.

No worries, the deck I asked for C&C on isn't exactly tier 1 either.

Splashing blue for a draw spell like Thirst for Knowledge or Thoughtcast might be good. Master's Call is two 1/1's an instant speed for 2W, which is decent.

REEEE choice cards
You won't always be playing vs blue decks, Faithless Looting would let you drop the dead REB when they aren't relevant. Barbarian Ring is a RDW classic that can let you get those last few points of damage in.

Why isn't nivmagus elemental playable in legacy? I know it's not AS heavy in counterspell war as vintage, but there is still ton of daze/FoW decks around.

Cards with silver borders (I'm rubber you're glue, AWOL) aren't legal in any format, and generally aren't even accepted in casual play. They're from a joke set. But myrs are pretty cute. until you figure out where their eyes are

Oh boy, you are in for a treat if you haven't seen this yet.
Mono Blue Martyr vs MUD.
youtube.com/watch?v=jkwLJjBGzEE

Greg Hatch is pretty awesome

>2014
Well fuck this, I'm so going to try building a deck with nivmagus.

There's a slightly updated list out there somewhere that kills with tireless tribe and twisted image instead of nivmagus

60% is too much. Beware the giga kike.

One guy at my shop has a variety of decks but mains Elves and another guy is working his way toward show and tell. I've built reanimator, ANT, and nearly complete with miracles. Still haven't reached the threshold required to birth a scene and our area is very poor so it's been difficult. I badger everyone about it. One of the Yugioh players recently woke up so I'll see if I can't get him interested. He's been building a mono blue edh deck so I take that as a good sign. It was amusing to hear him exclaim to his yugibros "in magic, there are cards that say take an extra turn!"

I'm my area we have enough people with decks to get 8-10 a week, but it's hard to wrangle people into actually coming. I got the ball rolling with brute force. I kept pestering the TO at my lgs to run lefact tournaments and I badgered people into bringing decks to play between modern rounds. Eventually we got a weekly thing going but we usually only get like 4-6 people to actually show and end up doing round Robin or winner-take-all 3 round swiss.

SOME MADMAN TOOK PSI TO A 5-0 IN AN MTGO LEAGUE. IS THIS DECK THE REAL DEAL?

mtgtop8.com/event?e=14573&d=287393&f=LE

Why the DRS? Seems kinda strange.

It's to put under chrome mox mostly. You can pact for a bg card for the mox. Older lists played odious trow. The shaman is obviously an upgrade. It's also cheap enough that you can cast and cull it.

So I was thinking, right now I was planning on a Omnitell list which is mostly just the pieces, Halls, and Force with 4 Griselbrands. Should I change up my list?

Also what decks play with Strand and Delta?

Lots of blue decks could use those. Storm and miracles jump to mind. You could build esper delver if you want something more offbeat.

Of course it is. Its been an established archetype for yeara, and I'll defend it to the end. When did the myth that SI was actually bad even start? People basically pretend it doesn't exist anymore and then get fucked when it shows up. Expect to see it a little more over the next few months. The time is ripe.

What do you think the pros and cons of pact build vs. Classic build are? A lot of people think pact is strictly better but I'm not so sure.

It's just overall worse Belcher, you don't have the functionality of the wishboard, you can't play around FoW without Empty the Warrens and this list doesn't even run Cabal Therapy/Negation to protect the turn 1 and most of the time just die to Summoner's Pact after fizzling with the draw 4s.

It's on the same level as belcher, and belcher is a gambler's deck. You're gambling that you won't run into blue decks.

Realistically the only cards belcher wishes for are empty and their draw7s. Sometimes goblin war strike. If you're wishing for something else you're losing.

The pact version of SI gets a little extra goldfish consistency at the price of being drastically more all-in. The traditional builds with 0-drops actually can recover pretty well from countermagic by simply resolving another draw4. And you can still sequence your spells in such a way that you can bait them into countering the wrong spell.

The real question you want to be asking is do you want to play a belcher-style deck in a meta so saturated with blue decks?

Depends on the blue, not vs Delver but Belcher has game vs Shardless/any other non-Delver BUG pile if they don't rip the nuts g2 and g3 since they basically have 4 cards in their deck + whatever they side in. If they fow your t1 play they're most likely pitching brainstorm or AV and you have more consistent topdecks than them if they don't kill you with a goyf in 4-5 turns. If your 7 contains ETW but no Seething Song to yell counter me you basically can't lose vs Delver either.

Yeah, not too sure on buying Duals (Hence Omnitell), but I'll keep it in mind.

Also Xantid Swarm is a card and wishing for Telemin Performance to oneshot no-creatures decks or win vs Reanimator/SNT is also a thing. You might be losing when you wish for Pyroclasm/Grapeshot but it's not like you can't draw into more mana+action after wrathing the board.

The bit about "can't lose to delver" sounds like a bit of hyperbole. If you need to land grant, you lose the knowledge advantage. If they counter rituals you wont always have enough mana to go off. Obviously they delver player wants to counter the business spell, but with bug variants with discard becoming more popular, countering mana could be correct if they follow it up with discard. Empty is a great card vs force, and there's an argument for SI to play it too. But it's not a sure kill vs several decks in the format, including the most popular. It's all about tradeoffs, senpai.

>The real question you want to be asking is do you want to play a belcher-style deck in a meta so saturated with blue decks?

Because I'm a hard M and lunatic. I like a challenge.

Is there any listed combos in legacy? I want to see niche synergies. Also post your favourite unplayed cards.

I wish I had saved it, but there was a website posted here once that listed all sorts of goofy-ass budget legacy combo decks, like Worldgorger Dragon/Animate Dead.

Link in the first post. Probably should add this to the resources in the OP.
mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31126-Budget-Legacy-Guide-V5

I like the list, but my issue is that most of them have no means to win decks to beat. But then again, if they had, they wouldn't be exactly budget.

Oh shit, yep, this is what I was thinking of: docs.google.com/document/d/1me_bqX45Fh_auKaETDcE6GgxWq569qspmBk1VoOtBHU/edit?pli=1#

...I really want to make some of these decks, but my store only has Legacy once a month.

Yeah some of them are ok, and some of them are Jank As Fuck. But for poorfags who want to play locally, there are some good options.

I wonder how many viable tactics are there. I feel like you either have: Counterspell backup, Discard or Tax/Prison to be able to keep up combo in check. And for combo you are balls in the wall and hope your opponent doesn't mess your hand.

Is there other viable strategies out there? I know some decks are hybrids of those, like SnT is two card combo with counterspell backup. I like how eidolon is storm counter, but I wonder how well it works as storm trigger doesn't stack in damage.

Fairly new to non kitchentable mtg, and i was wondering something. Is there any format or deck that uses creatures with shadow? It seems so specific that it would be decent against decks. But then again I dont know shit about top tier decks.

Not really. Shadow creatures ain't too powerful in itself, even though they can attack through defending player. But compare 2cmc shadow creature hitting 1 against opponent who will hit you with 2cmc tarmogoyf back with 5 damage and guess who wins the race. Even rancor won't keep you in the game and that's upping the cost to 3cmc.

I think looter il-kor has been used at some point for the filtering effect, but it's a bit slow as well.

I do remember there was a budget build of a Suicide Black deck that had some shadow creatures in it floating around.

Ah, found it: mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/budget-legacy/607937-budget-shadow-competitive-30

You can give it a spin.

Post your deck's theme song and others guess which it is.
youtube.com/watch?v=xwhOTNQcQq4

It has its ups and downs locally. Generally it dies, then a few months later, people will rez it, then it will die in a couple weeks. Generally its always the same 4-6 people. Modern made it even more dead locally for me. The store I play at actually has the option to opt into modern if legacy doesn't happen. I remember last time the judge actually offered to loan me his modern deck just cause i didnt have one. I politely declined and left.I stopped going cause it missed fireing for the last couple of weeks. So its back to the xmage for me for a while. I hate how modern seems to be sucking even more people out of legacy. I just dont see the appeal at all. I mean, like as jumping off point bnefore you get into legacy maybe...idk. From what small amount of it I played it just feels like legacy with shit cards. On top of it and just...wizards in general starting to take pages from the TCG yugioh format. It really pisses me off. On a side note, I got most of a pox core, just missing the wastes,thoguhseizes and lillies because $$$. Im torn between finishing it, but I dont want to if Ill never end up playing it. On another side note though, Do you guys thingk legacy will get any cheaper with everyone not seemingly playing it hardly at all anymore?

Modern is more popular because:
>Cheaper so more players, why pay 1500$ when you can pay $400?
>more support from Wizards
>Legacy has a bad rep for elitism and games ending as early as turn one
>Blue's supposed "dominance",
>Nobody wants to buy Reserved List cards
>Its easier to find people to play modern then legacy

I already paid 160$ for building a deck and I'm nowhere near done. I'm honestly thinking of making some Modern deck.

160 clams is chump change even in modern, my dude.

ehhhh, im not so sure on modern being cheaper anymore. I mean with the way the ban lists has been handled, why bother trying to build something top tier if its just gonna get banned later? I mean, blue is technically dominate, just because most decks run blue. I honestly don't get the turn one game legacy thing. I mean some decks CAN do it, but you dont see it that much. Idk people need to realize theres more to legacy than miricals and brainstorm. Just because top teir decks run duals and shit dosnt mean you have to play those decks. I honestly have way more fun playing the old/obscure decks compared to common stuff you see now.

Compared to how highly costed the Goal it's it's a far better deal.
Modern is still cheaper. Dredge wasn't a full ban and Probe didn't cripple anything other then the already dead modern Storm. Even with Wizard's use of Bans, people don't want to shell out that much money for magic. It's one of the reasons Frontier is even a thing.

Honestly, it's probably because there's so many ways to go from 0-60 quickly (Reanimator can T1 Whatever unless you have force, Show and tell by T2, Storm is storm.)

Legacy is a mostly competitive format, which is why when people want to enter they look at the top tier stuff with Duals. Nobody looks at old/obscure decks because they don't think they can put up a fight against top tier decks. Sure they might not be Spikes, but they don't want to be destroyed by the possible high tier decks they face with their Budget Deck/Non-Reserved

Grixis control?

>wizards in general starting to take pages from the TCG yugioh format.
How so?

>ehhhh, im not so sure on modern being cheaper anymore.
Scalding Tarns: $80
Steam Vents: $10
Volcanic Island: $300

>ftv where he can get them and hideous alters for the rest
Spurn the man that deigneth to sully perfect fits with unclean printings and keep not the company of such unscrupulous heathens lest they corrupt thine own conscience. Be he single-sleeved, thou shalt bury him and remove his graveyard from the game.

My moneys on SI or RB Reanimator, you seem like the sorta guy who likes paying life.

tfw you cant think of one for your main deck
My backup deck
youtube.com/watch?v=ipqqEFoJPL4

High Tide? Merfolk? I bet its Merfolk.

Hey, man; what can I say? The Venezuelan Legends had their day. It passed.

Can't claim credit for building the scene from the ground up, but I'm definitely a big promoter of the format to people who might be interested. The local allows a (non-75) number of proxies, so I bring three decks that have a few crossover cards and lend them out if people are interested in jumping into the format. It's yielded little, but one hopes that people will get over their Tarmogoyfs and start playing good cards.

That's pretty much the way it is here. Twin States...

Can't speak to Posts (specifically) in Eldrazi, but I've seen a lot of lists run mana-artifacts like Grim Monolith—ostensibly to give an out to Blood Moon, but also to jump up to Eldrazi Titans and such.

Here's a thread I've seen that might give you some info: mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30579-BigEldrazi

Can't guarantee anything (I've only started comsidering building a "Fair Deck" within the past week), but seems like a good place to look for info.

The problem with Legacy is that people assume it's hideously expensive even when Modern and Standard bottleneck into "pay $1500 or lose." Any Modern deck running Tarmogoyf is already reaching Legacy levels of investment, and the cards are worse and subject to format-wide fluctuations that ruin decks.

I still can't wrap my head around why people would play bad decks in an underpowered format for a greater cost than it would take for them to buy into Legacy and have better decks in the format.

The main reason I haven't gotten back into Modern (or Standard, for that matter) is that the cards are artificially expensive and notably lackluster compared to Legacy staples. I don't have any desire to pick up a bunch of Ovalchase Dragsters when I could just win with Cabal Therapies.

It's a lot cheaper to get a tier 1 modern deck then a tier 2 Legacy deck usually. What do you mean by good legacy decks being cheaper then a bad Modern deck, unless you mean power level.

Also Modern is more supported then Legacy, so there's more people to play with.

Even if you have no desire to get Dragsters, why would one want to spend money on LEDs/Duals/RL cards for when one could win Modern games for less? Sure there's Burn, but not everyone wants to play burn.

Honestly I've almost fully given up on Legacy, no people to play with nearby, Modern is cheaper and more popular. Sure it's not a good format, but it's the cheapest barring pauper which honestly doesn't seem fun.

One example: Modern Jund is significantly more expensive than a number of (comparatively and objectively better) Legacy decks.

I'll give you that, but Jund is known everywhere as just goodstuff and isn't the same stuff being used in legacy?

Modern is still generally easier to get into and cheaper usually. Sure it might not be a good format but nobody wants to pay that much money.

You're breaking my heart user. Why do you hurt me?

Because I want to believe in Legacy, but it's pushing me away. I'm disillusioned. Doesn't help that a turn one Badland to dark ritual makes me want to end myself with Omnitell, a defunct wanna be sneak n show that I only choose because it doesn't use duals.

>Modern and Standard bottleneck into "pay $1500 or lose."
No. Top 8 at PT AER nobody was over $500. Is that too expensive? Hell yes. But it isn't reserved duals expensive.

Modern can get that expensive because of stupid 4/5c goodstuff.

Of course price ≠ fun, I play decks in standard and modern that are worth sub $20 each and still have fun.

Theme music for your legacy deck, huh? How about this one?

youtube.com/watch?v=F0vwOvVuQe4

So I took shardless to my lgs weekly legacy night, and I got shit on. I usually bring storm or reanimator, and I do well enough to prize. Shardless is the first fair deck I've played in legacy, and on the surface it seems pretty easy. But even if I win I feel like I really need to work for it. Some games/matchups feel like I should be in control, but I end up just losing. sometimes it seems like I'm drawing the wrong half of my deck depending on the matchup. Like I'm drawing reactive cards when I need to beat down, drawing creatures when I really need to deal with an opposing true-name, etc. How do I get good at playing fair decks like this? I thought about switching to bug delver instead since that puts on a faster clock, but I'm still not sure.