Pathfinder General /pfg/

Sphere of Might exists to make martial combat exciting with real options instead of weeaboo fightan magic

Bamboozle games

Anything less than extremely cute is a failure of design on my part.

also real girls only, no traps and also no kitsune

>DM is clearly depressed
>Nobody else in the group can see it
Every time.

Then suck his dick and cheer him up fag.

>Sphere of Might exists to make martial combat exciting with real options instead of weeaboo fightan magic

And it fails utterly at that goal, since the optimal strategy is still just to dump all your choices into one (maaaaaybe two) action(s) and proceed to spam it over and over and over again 24/7.

But user, he lives in America and I live in Poland!

OH BOY, THE 'OPTIMAL STRATEGY' IS BORING AS FUCK.

WHO'D HAVE THOUGHT.

Wasn't Spheres of Might supposed to make the "optimal strategy" the most interesting one?

If you want your players to do cool stuff, your game should incentive doing cool stuff.

If you want your players to do the same goddamn thing every round forever, your game should reward them for spending multiple character advancement selections on long ability chains focused around one action or set of actions.

If you want your players to improvise and come up with new cool things to do every fight, your game should give them broad abilities, like "Strong As Fuck: You are hella good at anything that relates to being strong."

If you want your players to stick to a repetitive script fight after fight, your game should be full of narrow bullshit like "Greater Smash Trip: When you perform the Trip maneuver, you can also make a single melee attack with a one-handed weapon against the target of your maneuver. The attack deals double damage. Requires Smash Trip and Improved Smash Trip."

I got a DM problem and I would like advice about it.
I regularly use inspiration from different mythologies and legends in my games when it comes to everything from world building to cultural motes, sometimes ripping specific individuals off wholesale and renaming them. It hasn't been a problem until recently.
Players proceeded to a new region, started getting involved, and dealt with a folk that they had never seen before, spoke a different language, looked different, all that. The people, and their city, are based on the African Mandingo version of the ubermenschen, an entire god child race of tall, impossibly strong/intelligent/powerful born heroes whose crux was that their city-state would inevitably fall because heroes are destined to serve the people, not themselves, and so spit on their fate and punished by the gods for their heresy.
A small group ends up fighting alongside the party when the fort they are taking shelter in is attacked, the odd men and women dispatch their foes with ease, each being a demigod, whilst the party struggles.
Later, 2 of the players confront me for throwing a "power fantasy" at them, and they didn't like it. I found myself fairly insulted and fired back that they had little issue when elements of Irish or German mythos was used and no one came to me complaining that I was trying to fellate those particular players, and if it is so much an issue, for them to take it to the group and we'll iron it out like all others.
Half the group feels uncomfortable with the situation, the other half consider it no real issue, and now the group is at loggerheads.
What should I, the DM, do? I make it a point to faithfully follow whatever mythology I am using to do it respectful justice, and do not use them as a way to overshadow the party, only to show them that there are other mighty forces in the world. I have some plot ideas that may lead them to these god-men's door, but that may not even happen unless they choose to.

Rape the complaining players to assert dominance

Except that's not at all true. Spheres of Might rewards you for versatility, and versatility is a virtue in its own right. We don't even have half the spheres yet and they already have a ton of interactions between them.

Unfortunately I dont have Sleeping Goddess in my list, so that is out

So anons, is Victorious Recovery particularly good for Mystic for improving reliability?

Why is Nino so cute in FE:H

>Why is Nino so cute in FE:H

Offer plot hooks to adventure that takes the party away from this civilization. It wouldn't be right to ret-con them out of existence at this point, but you can make them a foot-note in the story rather than a central part of this story arc.

If you don't already know, ask your players what their characters' goals are, why they're adventurers or what kind of adventures they want to go on. Then give them a few opportunities to go on such adventures or achieve those goals. That should work.

Only a little cute

...

Why are you deviating from official Pathfinder canon by not having your kitsunes look like this?

If you left out this last picture, you could feasibly use Nino's artwork for a cute wizard boy.

Because I homebrew my settings.

Why should I cater to the people who have an issue with it, exactly?
This hasn't happened before, and it's not like other legendary figures haven't appeared to aid them, often being a source of boons or good favor in the game thus far. Shit, they ran into Gilgamesh and Enkidu traveling on the road and were pulled into a dreamscape along with them.

If half of them are uncomfortable and the others simply think it's fine then having a hook available for them to go to another land is reasonable as it means half of them will feel more comfortable and the other half will still think it's fine.
I'm not sure what you're asking anymore
Not even him

I'm asking why I should ditch the entire region the plot arc has led to because the players have an issue with this particular myth in the game.
It's like complaining that classic elves or Norse Jotun, both of which have featured in this game so far, exist, but thus far, no one has had issue with the children of Babe the Blue Ox or wading a bit into the Dreamtime to retrieve a lost artifact.
I am annoyed that I am expected to pretend the plot point nearly a year down the line never happened, and mildly offended at their implications.
That because I'm black, I had to have some SUPER AFRICANS that exist to make them look bad, when they ran into fucking Son Goku and nearly matched him in a game of riddles and pranks.

>Why should I cater to the people who have an issue with it, exactly?
Because that's what a good GM does. At the end of the day your metric of success is "Did the group have fun?". Don't force your players to follow an adventure or engage with themes that they feel uncomfortable with. Unless it's horror and they signed up for that, I suppose. In this situation you're lucky that the source of your players' aggravation is just an in-game faction, something they can walk away from any time they like.

Remember that as the GM, you possess both great power and great responsibility.

Dude, just slap they cracka asses around until they cry like a bitch.

Honkey fuckin' shits need to know they place

>but thus far, no one has had issue with the children of Babe the Blue Ox or wading a bit into the Dreamtime to retrieve a lost artifact.
So maybe your players don't give a shit about this particular legend or maybe they think you've written that particular part of the story poorly
Make the next few parts of the story slightly more player-centered. If not maybe just finish this arc up quick and move on.

>That because I'm black, I had to have some SUPER AFRICANS that exist to make them look bad,
I mean no player likes getting saved by a race of supermen no matter their skin color.

>when they ran into fucking Son Goku and nearly matched him in a game of riddles and pranks.
Son Goku is literally the Ever-Victorious Buddha. He literally CAN'T lose.

>Make the next few parts of the story slightly more player-centered
The game has always been so, user. Other groups are npcs that sometimes feature in if they are in that kind of situation, but I have generally replaced stereotypical elves/dwarves/etc with mythological beings and places.
>I mean no player likes getting saved by a race of supermen no matter their skin color
They weren't "saved" at all, they were all in the same battle, the Maningo simply were covering their end better. There was no actual interaction between the 2 groups beyond some exchanged words when they first arrived at the fortress and after the battle when their shaman asked if any of them needed healing.
>Son Goku is literally the Ever-Victorious Buddha. He literally CAN'T lose.
He didn't lose, but they nearly matched him on a technicality that I decided would be unfair to fiat away.

Have the black men take off their disguises of imperceptibility and reveal themselves to be the white norse God Loki and friends and have him curse the party for their impertinence.

Only if my salt level reaches new and previously unattainable heights.
I think I am more insulted that they would throw that kind of doubt on me. I have always tried to be as fair to them as possible, allowed leeway for shit that I had concerns about but let it play out, made sure they were the stars of the show even when they had to share the stage.
It's a low down accusation that needles at trust between parties.

Well then without the actual transcript I can't say anything else
They obviously just don't like this arc
Wrap it up quick, that's the only advice I can give.

>the actual transcript
This is a real life game, user, I don't do that online nonsense.
And what should I tell the other players who have already begun to make strides and invest in the area? I had set this place up to be a lost-and-found land important to the overarching journey they are on, and has a lot to do with 2 characters' backstories.
There is already a lot invested that has been begun.

Probably the best course of action is to just sit down and have a chat with your players about where to go from here. I don't know you, your players, or your group dynamics so my best solution is just talk it out.

>not keeping real life transcripts
user I...
And seriously like I don't know what to do if it's like that, at this point you need to have the round table talk with your players.

I drew three of her in my starting pull before rerolling; that face only serves to make me rage

As a druid who capped WS forms, which beast (or plant monster) should I go for if I want to poison the fuck out of someone (we use Unchained rules)?

I guess what really gets to me is that no one has thrown this shade on anyone else before.
Certainly not myself, even if I have some issues with something in a game, I will wait to see where it goes before I approach the gm with questions, usually hoping to work out something for everyone involved.
I am offended at the implied lack of trust I feel is needed for a game to function.
I write down notes on what they do and how, not the shit people say outside of game, user.

>Look through the 3rd party feats
Holy shit there's some retarded bullshit up in this bitch.

Now, I'm looking at the charge specific feats, such as the ones that add +2d6, +2d4, and the guaranteed critical threat. How would you rule these feats to work with Beast totem's pounce? Personally I'd say allow only one of the damage feats, but it applies for each hit in the fullround, and only the first attack is a guaranteed threat. That sound about right?

I always thought Nino was a boy...

It really REALLY depends on how well you know the character as to how cute he is.

Don't know character at all:
>She's super cute
Find out gender
>He's cute depending on what you're into
Hang around character too long
>Ohh shit, the frilly dresses are a distraction and now he's plotting coups and murdering people, abort! ABORT!

Boys wear skirts?

We don't, most 3pp materials are garbage
user, that's why you don't trust traps, they are inherently deceptive.

They're not cute enough.

Yeah, most of them are, though I like the feats that make Vital Strike sorta kinda useful (I always liked VS in concept but it's just so shit in execution)

the cutest ones do...

Reminder that Avowed are created off a seed of power that the character nurtures and causes to grow through their own actions. Sorta like a loan to start a business that you pay back within the first year, or taking starter classes online before testing into college.

That is a wolf-girl, not a Kitsune.

The weird thing is that it comes back full circle when you see his family. Married to a snekwoman and with an adopted red dragon daughter. It's hard to remember that he's an absolute terror when he's wearing a sundress and having a tea party with his daughter.

Reminder that it's still a shit

>Trusting banks
>Trusting universities

>Laughing_Sovereign-Citizens.webm

>"Hurr durr, I don't want to pay taxes or be harassed by law"
>"Hurr durr, I know! I will declare myself a sovereign citizen"
>"Hurr durr, now the MAN can't get me, I can just say that they have no jurisdiction over me because I am from their country!"

LaughingCops.Webm

>"I get to pick what laws apply to me!"
>"You can't arrest me for not having a driver's license!"

>laughing_judges.png

Loan isn't even a good metaphor, because once you have the seed, that's it. They can't take it back and have no power over you apart from the fact you'd be a bit of a dick to turn against them from there - that's why patrons have to make sure they choose not-dicks. (Or for things like Fiends, they have to make sure they choose the right kind of dick)

It's a psychic-themed class, so the power you gain from it is from the connections and thoughts you build around it.

It's more like someone teaching you how to make a gun, and then from there you use that knowledge to make better and better guns.

Sovereign citizens are the most retarded fuckers I've ever laid eyes on. Armchair lawyers who don't know fuck about law, citizen's rights, etc.
>AM I DRIVING OFFICER NO I AM TRAVELLING AND I AM FREE TO TRAVEL IT SAYS SO IN BLAH BLAH BLAH CHAPTER BLAH

>that's why patrons have to make sure they choose not-dicks.
Except there is no downside for them making a pact and no downside for someone not honoring it. There's pretty much no reason for a fiend to not just make a booth in the middle of a city and hand out Avowed seed's like free cellphones or some shit.

What is even going on in this thread

AM I BEING DETAINED? AM I BEING DETAINED? AM I BEING DETAINED? AM I BEING DETAINED?

People poking fun at some weird political movement most people have never heard of

user, you may have a problem

No one likes furfags

Aside from, yaknow, the knowledge or ability to make a Pact isn't super widespread.
By that logic there is no downside to gods passing out spells to every person that says their morning and mealtime prayers.

That's why fiend pacts are said to be one of the most common.

"Becoming an avowed is simple, but growing as one is not easy. Only those with enough willpower to take their pact and expand it can create a strong enough link, and as such,
these individuals are greatly coveted by supernatural beings from all ends of the planes."
Straight from the class intro itself.

Anyone can be an Avowed the same way anyone could enroll in a gym course and learn kung fu. Nothing impossible to it, but certain types take better to it than others, and only the gifted can really reach full potential.

The scary thing about Sovereign Citizens and "Freemen of the Land" is that I can guarantee they'll be the first ones to to full Mad Max, Fallout-esque Wastelands Raider gang if social order ever broke down in the United States. These people are not just delusional, they're dangerous.

Hell, have you seen the video of a pair of Sovereign Citizens walking into a police station armed with assault rifles, wearing face-masks and body armor because they wanted to file a complaint but "felt threatened" by the Police having firearms when they did not?

They were filing a complaint because a cop pulled them over when he saw they were driving around town with visible assault rifles, wearing full "I'm going to shoot up a place" regalia.

Why is Ran dressed like a slut?

Basically whatever your 'patron' is is whoever hooked their jumper cables to your inner car. This shapes some of your power permanently into something more akin to them.

It seems to involve a small, non-zero expenditure of power on the part of the initial patron (if you develop these same powers 6 generations down the line, that costs him nothing). Not enough to be a problem, but enough to make one think "do I really wanna make this effort for that guy?"

Symbiotic partnerships on the other hand appear to be the most fruitful to the entity you're paired with. They give up a good chunk but in exchange will grow faster and stronger as you do - at least according to the fluff.

Of course, Betrothed pacts are another thing entirely(and seemingly the most beneficial to the thing you got your powers from), and Esoteric ones are more akin to finding a spare battery on the side of the road, or a typical "the power was in you all along".

>Aside from, yaknow, the knowledge or ability to make a Pact isn't super widespread.
I'm pretty sure some devils can slap some Imps on ,magical tech support. There's pretty much infinity of them.

Fuck, I fucking hated this class but I acutally begin to like this bullshit. No commoners. Only level 1 avowed that call up various monsters when they're aether shit isn't working correctly.

Yukari told her to go earn some food money

Some of those types include ones who can actually be quoted as saying "if god wasn't sending me to hell for it there'd be nothing stopping me from raping and murdering anything I see"...

Why ISN'T she dressed like a slut? Also those shorts kinda remind me of Liru. Liru was cute...

Kinda this; if you're not born or lucked into it somehow, you not only have to have the ability to be unlocked, but also need to actually FIND a proper patron too.

>Symbiotic partnerships on the other hand appear to be the most fruitful to the entity you're paired with. They give up a good chunk but in exchange will grow faster and stronger as you do - at least according to the fluff.

The most enjoyable bit about Symbiotic or Esoteric or Legal pacts are that it's all suggestion - you can have a fairy bound to you just as you can be in some weird philosophical zen with the Elemental Plane of Fire.

But keep in mind; the devils do this, but have basically little to nothing in return, and can't take it back. Their own powers can easily just spread far and wide for the use of paladins and good entities everywhere.

Most likely the highest criteria beyond "can it even be done with this person" is "if I do this, will they naturally gravitate towards my own best interests too?"

>The most enjoyable bit about Symbiotic or Esoteric or Legal pacts are that it's all suggestion - you can have a fairy bound to you just as you can be in some weird philosophical zen with the Elemental Plane of Fire
By that logic everything in the game is a suggestion.

My horse isn't a horse! It's a tiger!

That's how we get bunnygirl avowed.
Not sure if Betrothed though; things got kinda... "pure love" with irisu...

or
>I'm not a 300 pound man, I'm a delicate woman!

In fairness, the pacts ARE supposed to be fairly individual, and at the MINIMUM differ between what you are and what you're pacting with.

>But keep in mind; the devils do this, but have basically little to nothing in return, and can't take it back.
That sounds like a really shit deal. Like why would anyone do this ever? Why is is called a pact when it sounds more like a gift someone gives you pretty much for free.

>By that logic everything in the game is a suggestion.

It is, but the DM is the gatekeeper on any and all changes to the lore; if you're going to insist your horse is a tiger, you better give a very good reason in your backstory why that is! Not only that, but tigers *are* mounts you can get, with distinct rules and mechanics separate from horses. Are you a Beast Master Cavalier? If so, you *can* ride that tiger.

In contrast, you know what mechanical difference there is between a Symbiotic Fae Pact and a "Legal" (don't have the pdf with me, what's the official name?) Fae Pact? Nothing. There isn't a mechanical difference. Unlike the horse being a tiger, having an intimate connection with a fairy who draws power from your belief in her is mechanically equal to an Erlking who wrote up a binding contract bequeathing unto you a portion of his power. It's fluff, all of it.

The expense is supposedly low, arguably you can do it in return for a favor or payment FIRST, and there's always the factor of "giving someone enough rope to hang themselves with", granting it almost oracle-style to someone you know will pretty much start doing things you'd want him to do to begin with, or even something as simple as family ties: Could just be a present from grandma.

>Come here, boy, you're getting old enough to get that magic of yours workin good. Now sit down and we'll get you nice and started up!

Symbiotic Fae pacts aren't even a thing iirc.

Well, look at what power does to people on earth.

With a sudden influx of power or wealth its easy to abuse it. With a fiends pact, the powers you're granted are condusive to doing bad things. So, after you die, when you're judged you'll be cast down to the evil outer realms and that fiend can then have access to eat or torment your soul.

>Like why would anyone do this ever? Why is is called a pact when it sounds more like a gift someone gives you pretty much for free.

There are a billion and one ways you can explain that in your backstory, user.

Maybe you tricked the devil, maybe you outwitted him - hell, maybe the devil just loves your gumption he thought giving you some power and having a direct connection to see the results was a great way to pass the next century. Maybe you wrote a Faustian deal granting you power in exchange for your soul.

It just that everything about the class implies a deal, agreement, and contract and then turns around and stresses how non of it's binding at all. I'm not a big fan of pact making classes/warlock fluff, but the way the Avowed tries to have it's cake and eat it to just REALLY leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

For those who are interested, Dark will be the next SoP book published. The current playtests are:

Creation Handbook Playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1kitAB8sHgmuD3fvOMuI_KyV_dxpO2wrxQmbnCoRgglA/edit?usp=sharing
Dark Handbook Playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1zHRZyaMh_QwWcQ-ROGCjQyCdflD6cbm9VdEOJMpC06I/edit?usp=sharing
Mind Handbook Playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1Kp4acH7zTk4e3DfPdYDfTk1jJClly3yp27Jfrf3FRWw/edit?usp=sharing
Time Handbook Playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1xrcVb8f4isNrnf0c4A-ek9AmU8UD9nNULJF5v6dRwNM/edit?usp=sharing

Gear of Power Playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1zIomq0TFP7uPdlFB8VRAIWQEjAXLV5CYpP3HmjySynU/edit?usp=sharing
Wild Magic Handbook: docs.google.com/document/d/1xBfoH6YcTdD3kwjn3ikItWPBGzIm9g3SVkVvUQD1yUw/edit?usp=sharing
Wild Magic Tables: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NU5bK1Dyzu66KgIdrHNaaXBw1eHVpcHZHOh5BDaxMzU/edit?usp=sharing

Not officially, but I sincerely doubt a DM is going to get upset at you for suggesting you gained a Dragon Pact because the two of you were dying and, in a move reminiscent of Dragonheart or Drakengard, shared portions of your life essence to survive and thrive.

Why can't the same happen with a Symbiotic Fae? Maybe you got lost in the woods as a small child and almost died, but a tiny Fae came to your rescue and guided you to safety. Ever since, you've believed in that Fairy as a sort of "Guardian Angel," and as a result the Fairy has been growing stronger and stronger since it's no stretch of the imagination to suggest Fairies are empowered by imagination (just like any fable.)

Every time I read through it I get the idea that it's more pushing for you to make things up yourself. If you want a pact that has conditions then you put them and roleplay them as you go, working with your group and GM, if you don't want them and just want to be the warlock, then you play that and no problems arise, etc.

There is that entire section on physical contracts and owing your soul as well.

I'm gonna be building a Noble Soul Vigilante using the Crusader specialization. Is it worth trying to pursue a sword and board type character using Shield of Fury and Furious Flurry? Should I just stick to a two handed weapon and Power Attack? From the looks of it I probably don't have enough Vigilante talents to get much done regarding a build, since some of the ones that give Paladin features feel a bit mandatory.

>and then turns around and stresses how non of it's binding at all.

They do this to keep the fluff open and ambiguous.

You want a binding agreement that forces all sorts of rules? Okay cool, write that up in your backstory and play it out in-game. You want a binding agreement that's actually not so binding at all, and is more a "reward" than contract? Okay cool, write that up in your backstory and play it out in-game.

Not all contracts have to be sustained service contracts. Even purchasing furniture involves signing some papers nowadays.

The important thing is that unlike with paladins, that power's yours once you have it. It was either given to you or purchased, but once that's done the GM doesn't get to just pull a noose around your neck and go "okay your soul belongs to them, and you'll have to betray the party every other week or else you lose all your powers lol".

>They do this to keep the fluff open and ambiguous.
I personally think the concept of an avowed is already pretty restrictive. "You made a psychic link with X fantasy creature" is pretty specific imo. But then again, different strokes. I personally don't like it but it seems to be becoming a bit of a sweetheart class here so meh.

>If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other.

So what defines a friendly character in this?
Mechanically, is there anything stopping you from just deciding you don't consider your party member in melee to be your ally for a moment, shooting at the guy next to them with no penalty (and no chance to hit your not-friend) and then deciding they're your friend again immediately after that?

Presumably, the GM.

Pathfinder as usual fails in its depth.

However, it's something you CAN do in Hackmaster, so I can at least tell you what happens there:
If you fire into melee, you can try to not shoot your friend, OR you can not care. If you don't care, though and miss by the value of the 'cover' being provided that way, you hit the 'cover'. Often in the back. And you don't get to hold back on the damage.