Horus Heresy General - /hhg/

Sounds like something Curze would say.

>aiming the bolter left-handed
I always knew there was something sinister about the dark angels.

Curze is about fear, and pointless suicide. He would never say something worth quoting.

>pointless suicide
That's what Mortarion wants for his soldiers though.

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Mortarion doesn't give them permission to die. Every DG who dies has failed their primarch and legion for not enduring. Perturabo is the one who spend their lives like currency.

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>chinacastpertuarbo.jpg

Why is Perty so memey? Why can an user just squish his face up a bit and it automatically be funny?

That's right perturabo your not suppose to kill your own guys.

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Looks like an Altmer now.

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in a Legion that regularly loses 70% of its operational strength in campaigns, i'd say that 10% is relatively light.

For All his flaws (and there are many) Perty's idea of spending men is valid when it comes to sieges, where you are never going to get through with pretty tactics (Alpharius aside). Corax attack on Gate 42 essentially tells us that.

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you win that is the turbo of turbos.

How did guilliman siege his casualty rate was the best.

>can be found in the OP links
>(the ρ-μ one)
What does that mean?

THE LEFT HAND OF DARKNESS :O : O : OOO

Nevermind found it, thanks!

>tfw to intelligent to die at the Dropsite Massacre

And that is where statistics are misleading. Guillimans casualty ratio is lower, partially because the UM were a more flexible legion, and partially because UM combat record involves less sieges.
Given that 40K's sieges draw heavily from both WWI and starforts, its not unreasonable to assume that some of the logic applies to 40K as well. For the most part, you want artillery to both pin down the defenders, clear obstacles and on counter battery duty.
In the end, winning a siege doesn't really differ from being an IW, UM or WE, at some point, you will have to run the gauntlet in an attempt to crack open the enemy defensive line. The only major difference between legions would be the availability of artillery, supporting firepower and doctrinal differences.

The reason, why IMO, Corax threw a hissyfit when ordered to assault Gate 42 was because at that point, his legion had become overspecialized and lacked the supporting assets to effectively storm it.
the IW on the other hand, having a fondness for firepower, and a logistic train to back it up, had no issues, and would had more then enough artillery at hand to effectively pin down defenders, conduct counter battery ops, while at the same time doing a box barrage.

Holy shit he looks more like the Emperor now.
Do Lorgar please!

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oops

>where you are never going to get through with pretty tactics

Wat. Tactics apply to all theatres of warfare. Sieges can be broken through mining, through encirclement and starvation, through negotiation, through strikes by special forces on key logistical elements, through luring the enemy into making sallies that are then ambushed.

Pretty much anything is better than some autist sat there going 'I calculate I will take 78.5485% losses in this full frontal attack before victory. Acceptable. Order the advance.'

Just throwing men at the enemy guns because you can't develop an intelligent plan of attack is full-retard, Perturabo was just an unimaginative butcher.

IW had glorious geneseed to easily replace losses, so they could play the attrition game unlike say the Thousand Sons.

I think you ignore that perturabo literally has lore where IW marines suffer massive casualties and their praetors are censured for lacking appropriate zeal (maybe some has it). Face it Perty is just has little regard for his boys, and will spend them in outrageous numbers to get something done a bit quicker.

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>Wat. Tactics apply to all theatres of warfare. Sieges can be broken through mining, through encirclement and starvation, through negotiation, through strikes by special forces on key logistical elements, through luring the enemy into making sallies that are then ambushed.
Then there's the Ironfire...

Anyone has a screencap of Gate 42? I know what basically happens but I'd like the details.

is it in the raven guard book for HH? I can go look it up

I presume so. I have the pdf on my computer, if you can find the oage don't bother taking pictures or whatnot I can find it myself when I come home. Just the page number will be enough thank you very much.

>Perturabo was just an unimaginative butcher.
That's just a meme caricature about him.

He was on top of his game in terms of planning and outfitting his forces, he just didn't care about the losses.

Perturabo would bring twice the artillery of everyone else, bombard a fort for two weeks then attack it with 50% casualties.
Dorn would bombard the fort for six weeks, then attack it with 10% casualties.
Guilliman would bombard it for five weeks, attack it with 15% casualties, and spend another five weeks writing a passage in the Codex Astartes about how he had perfected the art of siegecraft.

p. 134-135 of Book 3. I had actually thrown together a half-assed screencap already, so here it is.

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I'd agree with you but gay has to be shocked.

Thank you.

This went too far.

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Chambers wasn't that bad looking no homo.

Do not worry, father, I will preserve the Imperium for you.

hahaha

>red shoulders
Oh shit, you've done it now.

Why must you do this?

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How did the Ultramarines avoid all that Warrior Lodge stuff?

>The word bearer civil war lasted for 84 days
>It occurred during the siege of terra
>It was started over an argument between two praetors from different chapters
>One believed shoulders should be as black as his heart
>The other said a daemon had told him red shoulders would ensure victory
>Lorgar was too busy meditating to mediate
>Both praetors and their chapters were destroyed.
>No other word bearers gave a fuck
>this is why the codex astartes must outline all uniform requirements
>Signed your spiritual liege

Their natural character of requiring organisation at all times made the lodges an anathema to them.

I dunno

Don't look him up now then.
Time makes fools of us all.

Maybe because they were encouraged to have hobbies outside warfare (civil governing, going to cocktail parties with non-astartes, etc.) they didn't need the social outlet of the lodges.

They were well adjusted.

Which by your own rectally-extracted numbers makes Perty the shittier siegemaster...

What the fuck, looks like Henry Gibson.

Perty the faster siegemaster, and when you have nigh-unlimited resources and manpower, fast is what you want.

Nuh-uh, in a simulation pertuarbo designed himself, pertuarbo was able to break into the imperial palace every time.

And Alphy would wait ten months while the fort built itself up, then turned out to have built the fort all along and take it with 0.1% casualty

You forgot the part where Dorn rebuilds the fort.

He fought against astartes planning the defence, if the Emperor himself or a primarch was the commander, it would be a different simulation.

Except last time I checked, no Legion has an infinity symbol in it's order of battle in the column labelled "total personnel available" so uh

No.

>in a game that a guy wrote the rules for that he only plays against people stupider than him, he always wins

well, I'm impressed

Convincing!

it's not convincing

>what does effective mean for 100,000

Because Guilliman encouraged them to actually interact and make friendships with mortals, so the whole idea of secret warrior societies wouldn't have appealed to them. The Lodges were all about seperating the Astartes from humanity.

The Luna Wolves et al saw themselves as exclusively superior, transhuman warriors, as seperate and distinct from humanity, that's why Horus got so upset when regular humans started being given places in the Imperial bureaucracy.

Ultramarines were taught to see themselves simply as enhanced humans, but still human.

To quote Guilliman; "the Astartes excel at warfare because they're designed to excel at everything. Now stop whinging, sit down and pay attention to the rest of my 37 hour presentation of the most efficient method of establishing tiered farming communities in mountainous regions to maximise food production for centralised distribution, I don't care if boltgun practise is 'more fun' "

Do the Custodes have any real answer to anti-air? Looking at my friend who's building an entire army of them to go with his World Eaters, and wondering if two Vulturax or a Lightning, or just anything that can fly could just cruise around blasting them at will.
They seem to have a lot of holes in their list, really. They excel at killing large numbers of Marines in melee and the occasional automata with ID, but that's about it as far as I can tell.

turns out 100,000 or 80,000 or 90,000 or 250,000 aren't remotely "nigh-unlimited", genius.

*answer to Aircraft, I suspect they have rather less trouble with a Deredo.

Watch your shota hole, kids.

They are when they're super soldiers and you're attacking a fort from orbit.
>custodes
>WE
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour, at least you can point out that he's forced to use the shitty LA rule.

I don;t know about you but if I had to sit through that lecture instead of bolter practice, I'd throw a paddy.

Kek.

But how could Guilliman know if he wasn't there?

*SNAP*

And that is why you will never become one of the Emperor's finest warriors.

Nah, doubt they'd be played together, I think he just likes melee armies and wanted something a bit less vulnerable to Mechanicum and the other guy's EC and DG. They seem limited and expensive enough that I'd allow him to keep his bonuses, no need to have two mediocre armies allied together become worse.

Not even sure how you'd fluff Traitor Custosdes, you'd probably have to come up with some Fabius Bile super-soldier project #321314 and counts-as the rules.

That's almost Ancap-meme worthy.

My apologies, brother.
Six weeks in the pain glove for me.

Nice raven guard. Or is it iron hands? I can't tell all these uncreative legions apart.

>he says, despite the fact that the legion that spent it's spare time practising with bolters actually got shit done during the heresy
Reminder that Lorgar would have killed Guilliman if it weren't for the fact that that would have been bad for the traitors.

Hang on, so venting him into space without a helmet WASN'T meant to kill him?

He sicked a major daemon on him and vented him out into space without a helmet.

Both the Ultramarines and Word Bearers though he was dead. I'm pretty sure they meant for him to die.

Even Guilliman was surprised his biology allowed him to survive.

Lorgar was just inept.

He want to kill him, but he cannot do it personally because if he did traitors are fucked.
If Lorgar would confront Guilliman personally he will kill him.

>Even Guilliman was surprised his biology allowed him to survive.
Erebus, what does the augury scanner say about his plot armour?

>something that would surely kill anyone short of a Primarch
>attempted murder where even said Primarch is surprised to survive
>inept

Lorgar was incompetent in other ways but he knew what he was doing with Guilliman.

Is this difference because of the Primarchs' personalities? Seeing as how there were Luna Wolves who actively refused joining the lodges (Loken, Qruze), I'm surprised there isn't the opposite for the Ultramarines (Astartes who do consider themselves separate and superior from humanity). There's hundreds of thousands of the transhumans, surely there's room for some abnormalities.

Didn't fateweaver tell Lorgar not to kill him or Horus would lose? Are you telling me Lorger very nearly managed to fuck up NOT killing a Primarch?

>35 points for a 30k tarantula
why

can we have this pic without the hand?

Yes.
I remember it being tricky to find.

Could be a good way of getting some anti-tank into a fleet/rage blackshields force.