Rifts GAME Thread

>changing skill systems
That's a pretty big endeavour. What did you do?

Divide all percentages by 5 and make that a bonus to D20 rolls. Then roll vs DC like in d20 systems. Each level adds +1 to all skills.

Thoughts on an altered Attribute Chart?

Where's the thread for corporate drama?

Maps - for reference's sake.

Right here, suicide attempts included:

Better map.

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I have contemplated using alternate Attribute chart, but have yet to actually do so. Haven't bothered with the skill system, other than the skills not being clearly defined about what they do mechanically I don't have much of an issue with them. If it sounds appropriate to what the player wants to achieve then I let it be attempted, no biggy there.

As for rules to the base to hit numbers, I use the rules from the RUE as best as possible as a lot of stuff was clarified in that book, even if its hard to find.

Never bothered to lower MDC values because in my experience SDC essentially never comes up in a Rifts game, so MDCs relation to SDC always seemed a bit irrelevant. To help combat the issue of weapons doing little damage and armor having massive amounts of points making combat drag on, I USUALLY have it so most people that are encountered don't have brand new untouched armor, vehicles and robots when it makes sense, so they usuallly never have their full MDC amount. Speeds things up a lot, and in a post apocalyptic setting makes sense to me, MDC repair are costly, bets most people don't bother with them, just salvage what they can.

The big houserule change I have is I use an alternate initiative system from here

temporalnexus.net/multiverse/hosted_sites/rifts-rpg/adv/initiative.html

Tried it in a Palladium Fantasy game and a Rifts game so far and my players preferred it.

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>temporalnexus.net/multiverse/hosted_sites/rifts-rpg/adv/initiative.html

How fast is it for calculating that initiative in practice? Not that it's complicated, it just looks like it would take a minute or so each round.

I know it's not a good sales pitch to say it takes a min and I use a calculator, but its quick and I find the system once implemented and understood it just feels smoother.

That being said, I have never fully understood how the initiative system in Rifts was supposed to function in practice. I know its roll initiative, then go back and fourth with your actions in order until everyone is out and that you can move your speed on your action. But I never understood mechanically how gaining or losing initiative via certain moves actually affected anything mid fight.

It seems to be based on some notion of "Initiative order, until you run out of moves and can only use free defensive actions" but that gets out of hand when some characters get a ton of extra actions. Also how you account for when characters dodge.

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>Rifts Related

>What are you playing? What's your campaign?

Team of dimensional explorers which found a way to quickly build a magic army by exploiting the characteristics of some randomly rolled dimensions. Now they're looking into becoming dimensional conquerors/traders ala the Splugorth (but less evil).

So, slaves or no slaves?

> Late Night B-Movie
Excellent taste in how to run Rifts. Rifts just isn't Rifts unless you can see the VCR tracking in your mind's eye.

Best B-movie.

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If I'm the guy in charge then Hell yeah, slaves are awesome!

If I'm not the guy in charge then no, slavery is immoral and evil.

I was specifically curious about the "dimensional conquerors" mentioned here:

Playing slavers is always an interesting dilemma.

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Do the suggested scales and weights for robots make sense at all?

that's more of an /m/ question, and all you'll get there is SQUARECUBE TANKS BLARGLALRGL

For my part, given all giant robots are fictional, do not have comprehensive component layouts, are generally are made with nonexistant supermaterials, it's really hard to say, and thus you really shouldn't worry about it.

Sure, though aside from weight, even figuring out the height of most robots is a little wonky.

Oh hey that thing that says "Fuck you" to low level non Nightbane parties.

Wow fuck me sideways there was allot of shit I never got around to downloading from my kickstarter pledge

Hey, just got into a group playing Savage Rifts and am totally new to the system. Are Savage Rifts-related postings and "is my PC built moderately well" postings OK in Rifts threads these days?

Hell yeah. Go for it.

Anyone else find savage rifts characters feel a little too "squishy" or is that just me? Not that the normal rifts characters don't have problems with being a little too hard to take down, but it seems like there is a happy medium that's missing.

OK, thank you. Apologies for the delay; I had to go pick up a whole new modem.

Relevant stuff:

1) I'm playing in a homebrew campaign world that is very similar to, but not identical to, RIFTS Earth. For example, there's a few less powerful human-centric Empires, but no super-tough Coalition or NGR. I haven't gotten a full fluff guide yet. One important note: I was explicitly warned by the GM to think 3 or even 4 times about playing a Cyber-Knight *specifically*.

2) I'm joining a campaign already in progress, because other people flake out and I don't. The existing party consists of a "high-powered" Dragon, a "high-powered" Burster, a "high-powered" Mind-Melter, someone who is totally NOT Erin Tarn who who has pretty all the knowledges, and a Dog-boy Operator/wheelman who's basically BA Baracus with a shedding problem. I don't know what context "high-powered" is being used.

3) To my knowledge, the only relevant mechanical houserule in effect is that all PCs get a free Novice edge at character creation (reflected in the attached build procedure).

So here's the build process for my character. I'm looking at a power armor pilot who's inherited the old "family suit" that his grandfather won the family Fortune And Glory in; more or less looking at a modified (via Heroes Journey rolls) Death's Head-style SAMAS. Next post will attach the character "sheet".

And here's the sheet.

>Anyone else find savage rifts characters feel a little too "squishy" or is that just me?

Poking around into the system, I keep seeing things like "all magic characters can 1-shot glitter boys without trying" and "all mega-damage combat is essentially Rocket Tag". So I'd agree with you, from what research I've done.

Power armor is a trap unless you're going to use a GB, and even then they aren't very good because all you can do is sit a 1/2-mile away and fire area attacks while stationary.

The problem with power armor is that it doesn't have the guns required to do enough damage (GB excepted) to compare to bursters and so forth. Meanwhile it's next to impossible to actually become harder to hit with ranged-weapons, so hitting you is easy. And unless you pull off cyber-cheese where you take reinforced frame something like 18 times to build a decent amount of Toughness, yes, pretty much every meaningful weapon in the game can 1-shot you.

The best thing for you to do if you must play a PA hero is to play a different MARS character and absolutely go nuts on the toughness-enhancing cyberware; increase your strain as much as possible. Make sure you take the Born a Hero edge so you can access a legendary edge. Take a Sidekick edge, and make the SIDEKICK be the PA pilot. Take PA Jock with your free Edge for being human. During play, have the sidekick charge an enemy while naked, get killed, and you get a free suit of power armor, and have the Toughness to actually use it and possibly not get 1-shotted.

SR is absolutely a rocket tag system.

>Born a Hero
This isn't an edge you take, it's a settings rule meaning it automatically applies to everyone.

>The problem with power armor is that it doesn't have the guns required to do enough damage (GB excepted) to compare to bursters and so forth

What makes you say this? The bursters abilities are adding 3d6 to their fighting rolls and using a bolt that does 4d6. Plenty of these PA's have missile launchers doing 6d6+ or they can just choose to carry railguns that do 3d10/4d10+, in addition they will have a higher toughness than a Buster.

>Big Daddy Bot and his Mini-Me son next to him.
>Some artists cannot into perspective

>3 HP

bumping for any feedback

You can actually play Rifts?

The setting plays just fine. It's the Palladium rules that are completely useless

I'd say the biggest "Rocket Tag" issue is with Power Armor, and specifically, railguns.

Most railguns need their AP and damage shaved a bit, and the setting desperately needs some more Power Armor Jock dependent edges.

I'm also thinking the setting should have a general rule that most large things (Power armor, monsters) have a variant on Hardy where being Shaken a second time doesn't cause a wound unless the Shaken result was inflicted by a Trick.

Conversely, ion weapons are currently a joke compared to laser weapons due to the lack of AP.

Unfortunate that the HP doesn't scale with creature, size, or anything besides main character/mook status.

MARS pilot poster from upthread.

How then are you supposed to make a Power Armor pilot work in the game? Is there anything major I should consider changing?

Add a sensor rating for long-range sensors.

Weren't you listening? Power armor is a rocket tag trap. The major thing you should consider changing is the decision (a poor one) to play a power armor character in the first place.

At the get-go I would add an Edge like "+2 Toughness while wearing Power Armor". Which sounds powerful but is perfectly on par with Cyber Knight edges and Reinforced Frame.

In addition I'd make the -4 AP reduction apply to every ranged weapon including railguns.

>Sticking to written rules when everyone knows they're unbalanced.
I've hung out with boardgame designers enough that I now feel no compunction against houseruling shit everyone at the table agrees is lame.

I'm 90% certain the lead writer for Savage Rifts had a personal hatred of power armor, considering the weakness was brought up several times during the post-pdf/pre-print period and never corrected.

So houseruling is the only way to make power armor work?

I'm not trying to challenge you or be picky - I'm trying to ascertain exactly what's required here.

Currently running Savage Rifts. Been running a campaign since the pdfs dropped a few months back and it's been crazy fun. Honestly, it's the most fun I've ever had with the setting, and I've been collecting Rifts books since 1993 or so. My group just got to the Vampire Kingdoms, wound up fucking over Reid's Rangers, and left a swath of collateral damage behind them that has about half the party seriously wondering what kind of people they are.

I've been running Savage Rifts for about 50 XP worth of sessions now, and the only people who have actually dropped in a fight are the Glitter Boy pilot when she was out of her armor, and the Ley Line Walker when he got jumped without any prep magic up. Last session was kind of rough for them, and half the party had one or two wounds by the time the fight was done, but that's about as wrecked as they've ever gotten. I think the idea that Savage Rifts characters are "squishy" is really overstated by people who love white room combat and don't understand how soaking works or how many bennies the group is supposed to be getting on a regular basis.

>how many bennies the group is supposed to be getting on a regular basis.
There's that crutch again. Whenever there's a problem with the SW mechanics, the answer is always: "Use bennies better!" Sorry, but that's basically a cop-out of GM fiat.

It's really not, man. Bennies and their flow are an intrinsic part of the way the system is supposed to work. That's not a bug, it's a feature.

At a minimum you could argue it should be clearer how to incorporate them into the game.

As written it is a major resource but it tends to overshadow the other mechanics.

I can agree with that, trappings as well. Book should spend more time emphasizing those things.

Heh, I'd forgotten how bad Savage Worlds is.

Wait, what now? what's making it bad?

Mostly being RIFTS.

Also being Savage Worlds, tho. Both things are terrible.

shitvag worlds is the worst attempt at a nu-rpg since that fucking irredeemable pile of shit fate

but yeah also their "interpretation" (to use the term disparagingly) of rifts is real shitty too

Where you been this last week? Been like 3-4 savage worlds threads completely devoid of your 'shitvag' spewing autism.

>this last week
kek, looks like you've got bigger problems than lil old me, I never come here anymore

The salt about Rifts will literally never amuse me.

So, is anybody actually going to help this guy? I would, but I play pretty much exclusively mages and psi-characters. I don't have the first clue how to optimize a giant robot or power armor pilot.

We use GURPS 4th Ed to run a Merc campaign set during the Siege on Tolkeen. Pic related it's my Wilderness Scout.

>So, is anybody actually going to help this guy?

No. If you're dumb enough to play Savage worlds, you're dumb enough to deserve what you get for not optimizing.

How do you handle the relative point values of different characters? I can't imagine a robot pilot is going to be anywhere near the same points as a scout.

Under-Used Settings?

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Help somebody? Where do you think you are? The rifts community got somebody to literally try to kill themselves - what makes you think we're going to help anybody who's too stupid to have not played the game before?

What's the question?

He's wondering about making sure his Power Armor pilot character is competitive.

The irritating thing about "Bennies soak damage" is that bennies were originally a major change to get away from fate chips in Deadlands always getting spent to cancel wounds.

The problem is that power armor is in such a bad place from them directly copying the base values over from the sci-fi toolkit without compensating for increased firepower that there's no way to optimize without houseruling or waiting for a rules change.

Main issue being that railguns and missiles shit out tons of damage, most power armor will be +2 to be hit due to size, and the game hands out +2 bonuses everywhere but barely has any ranged penalties.

Well I mean just read the stats on them, Power Armors are very strong, lots of MDC Armor, decked out in powerful weapons, big strength bonus ect.

Take the ulti-max - 5d6 missile launchers, 4d10+4 heavy railgun ect, +14 MDC armor.

I mean PA are simple, straight forward and strong AF.

The ulti-max is a robot, not power armor.

The problem is that power armor weapons do much more damage than their armor values. A light railgun has a 90% chance of shaken or better and a 60% chance of wounding or better a Samson pilot with d8 vigor, and a Shooting TN of 4. Meanwhile, a pulse rifle only has a 50% chance of shaken or better against a starting Cyber-knight, with a TN of 6. The Samson gets MDC, but only has about 5 more armor than non-mdc warrior types, and doesn't have the same access to deflection edges. So any real heavy weapon will just punch right through them.

>The ulti-max is a robot, not power armor.

Its power armor and is statted as such. p84 of the players guide. Its the last power armor listed before the robot armor section.

Any heavy weapon will chew through anything in Savage Rifts, mage, man-at-arms, PA or otherwise.

Most of the bigger guns have AP values that completely negate any armor though, PLUS huge damage rolls.

So, anything with a heavy rail gun is doing 8-44 damage directly to toughness, since not many suits have over 18 armor value already (not even the Ulti-Max).

There are some robot vehicles that can resist that, but power armor would be completely blown away.

Have I got a different version of the player's guide then? Mine has the ulti-max on p.88 as a robot vehicle.

Entirely possible, they did release a bunch, thought I had the latest one though. I don't see a revision number anywhere.

So I feel I may be confused at to what the argument is. Let's say for example your right and yes a heavy railgun DOES chew through PA pretty easily. Okay fine, but how does that make a PA worse than a mage? The Railgun chews through the mage as WELL. And the PA pilot can, himself, USE a railgun so I guess he would be a classic Glass Cannon right? Well even if he does to a railgun quickly hes STILL more armored than most so not only does he DO a lot of damage hes still taking a lot less than his allies, even if a specific kind of weapon wrecks his, and everyone elses, shit.

>Its power armor and is statted as such

It was released as power armor in the first printing of the game, and was errata'd over to a robot vehicle in all others. The Ulti-max isn't worn like a suit, but piloted like a Battlemech or Gundan, and thus it never should have been power armor in the first place.

Eh... it's always been a bit debatable what's "power armor" in the "suit" sense, and what's "power armor" in the "terran marines where there's no possible way a human could fit in those proportions".

Take the cover of "Adventures in Dinosaur Swamp" for example.

Yeah seems I missed the updated release. Got it now. Though still ignoring the ulti-max I firmly believe there is nothing under powered to PAs and that user up there will have no problem staying competitive with his dog boy and burster allies.

Also neat, my old book didn't even have this art in it.

Anything besides Rifts North America

BEST under-used setting then.

Going to say for me it's a toss up between the Russia books, and Wormwood.

Wormwood and three galaxies here.

The scale for three galaxies is just so unapologetically mind-boggling. I'd want to run space battles just to see if they can work at all.

Dude I know right, I kinda want to just take the three galaxies setting, and port it to Strike Legion or something for maximum "What"

I'm pretty convinced that most stuff in the Three Galaxies would walk up the asshole of anything from 40k and reverse shit out of it's mouth one shoting ships as it passed by.

Also sorry for the picture spam, for some reason Veeky Forums is not letting me post with out a pictured

Oh god, I don't even like the meme, but this could so be one of those, with "Don't talk to me or my son about magic ever again". Gotta keep it RIFTS themed I guess.

Well that is basically a death star, built by a god-like precursor race. The CCW and TGE's biggest weapons do "merely" thousands of points of mega damage.

I'll throw in another vote for Phase World. I always wanted to run a game in the Three Galaxies, but never got around to it before my group decided the system was unplayable.