/hhg/ aka Horus Heresy General

Not through conventional means.

XI > II
Get over it.

>Tfw engravings do give you tactical advantages, since that usually means Master Crafted.

>cypher admonishing the fallen angels for their armour's lack of skulls and doodads

Thanks for listening.
I mentioned autocannons because I thought it'd be a somewhat accurate comparison to Thallax, but I think THE job they can do and no other can is to begin in the table and guard your assets from infiltration, before dashing turn one toward the forward objectives the Mechanicum units may have trouble from reaching (resilient Jump Pack units).
It's not like Triarii aren't good ramming transports or as if Reductors cared about terrain, but there's that.

In a good way or in a bad way?

Can I get a quick rundown on why Veeky Forums hates the Space Wolves again?

I could either waste enermy into complaining, or I could take things as they go

Cause they killed the 1ksons.

First it was cool vikings in space but then they became furries in space

Here's my take on the autocannon versus the other HS choices:

>Heavy Bolter: Slightly more expensive and less lethal to MEQ, but gains the crucial ability to glance and pen troublesome vehicular targets. All-in-all unless you know for sure you want to kill infantry and only infantry, or are the DG doing the Reaping, you should strongly consider the autocannon.
>Multi-Melta: Melta has half the range and shots, one more strength and pierce-all AP, BUT Armoured Ceramite basically displaces Multi-Meltas in its 40k roles, forcing it into harsher competition with the Autocannon, Missile Launcher (best replacement), and Lascannon. The Autocannon has better versatility and fills battlefield roles much better than the 30k MM. And if you want to do what the ATC can't, the missile launcher and lascannon are very serious competitors to the MM.
>Lascannon: Lascannon is specialised anti-vehicle, autocannon is not. The overlap is versus light-medium vehicles, in which the lascannons bring a much higher chance of penetrating hits, but half the number of shots, but are much more expensive and a bigger psychological target.
>Plasma Cannons: No snap-fire is way bigger than the loss of 12" of range. Blasts make a bigger impact on how they play compared to autocannons. Potential to spear as many or a good bit more hits than the 10-20 you can get from autocannons, with AP2 to boot! All-in-all, these do moderately well in the fields autocannons specialise at, and even provide something no other weapon really can do, but can be tricky to use, and are second-most expensive choice. I'd say they're sufficiently different that you should consider what you want to do first and decide based on that rather than primarily weighing them up directly against each other.

And then FW brought them back to Vikings in Space! With cool rules that are not particularly overpowered.

If plastic Guilliman didnt come with all that filigree and UM symbols I would seriously consider converting it to a Dorn model since it has a cool bolter and a sick sword but too much details and not enough eagles breaks that idea.

>And then FW brought them back to Vikings in Space! With cool rules that are not particularly overpowered.
but

dorn's armour is covered in filigree, though

This is a nice analysis. To be honest I don't expect Heavy Bolters do do anything against most vehicles, and their niche is from T4 to below, but I'll consider your words.
>With cool rules that are not particularly overpowered.
Such falsehood.
Despoilers that get power weapons at discount price.
2.5 Legiones Astartes worth of rules (+1WS with Counter attack, faster and with pseudo Night Vision, Acute Senses and noses that function as Augury arrays)
Their downsides are they have to use the aforementioned despoiled squads and are """forced""" to Sweep Advance.

Because if you kill the witches they win.

>Volkite Culverin: Expensive replacement for the Heavy Bolter, effectively, but can chew through infantry more effectively than the Heavy Bolter (unless they're exactly AP4, in which case it's actually worse). They have double the shots Autocannons have, for only one less strength and AP, and since they're S6, they can still do good against fliers, side and rear armour (which the enemy might be foolish enough to expose to you, since Volkite is seen as an anti-infantry weapon), and they will absolutely rape Rhinos. Consider them over autocannons if you know the enemy will be fielding infantry, you have good AT in the bank already, and/or are short on anti-infantry.
>Missile Launcher: This is the most direct competition to the Autocannon, because its role(s) are the same as those of the autocannon, just slightly tilted towards avenues the Autocannon isn't as specialised towards. The Missile Launcher is S8 AP3, meaning it will be more reliable against marines, but in my view, choosing missile launchers's to fire AP3 at marines is not why you should be choosing them. In my view, they are Multi-Meltas compensated for the loss of Melta versus armoured ceramite by being given double range and an anti-infantry option. Generally missile launchers will be used to pen medium vehicles and side armour, but they can be used to put blasts on top of infantry. In these respects, they can outmatch the autocannon, but I feel it's more situational, since you have half the shots, and your blasts are relatively weak, equivalent to bolter hits that GEQs can save against. The other draw that brings people in on the side of missile launchers is the option to take flakk missiles, turning the humble missile launchers into multipurpose AA infantry. However, what this option amounts to is paying 10 points per model in a five-man squad to give them one Skyfire autocannon shot. IMO, it's a psychologically reassuring option, but probably not as good in crunch as the autocannon.

>tfw Dorn and Perturabo finally fight in Warhammer 41k
youtube.com/watch?v=lO2Zp4nwsFA

>To be honest I don't expect Heavy Bolters do do anything against most vehicles
Sorry if I wasn't clear, my first commentary under the Heavy Bolter portion describes the virtues of the autocannon over the Heavy Bolter.
The Heavy Bolter is just for fighting infantry on the cheap. The only vehicles the HB could take on would be Rhinos, and even then, it'd only be worth firing when there's no other option in terms of targets.
Take the Autocannon over the Heavy Bolters unless you're the Death Guard or Iron Warriors IMO. (But in IW you can mix-and-match, so it's irrelevant).

If I can make another chart, I'll give the TLDR on my previous posts:

You should probably take the Autocannon tier:
>Heavy Bolters
>Missile Launchers
>Multi-Melta

Take these instead if you want to accomplish something specific, but plan carefully to maximise points return:
>Lascannon
>Volkite Culverin
>Heavy Flamer
>Plasma Cannon

How fluffy is it for House Hawkshroud to work alongside the Custodes? I want to run a canon Knight group I can feel comfortable using in 30k and 40k.

should be fine, I can't remember when they joined the Imperium but they're still around now so they obviously didn't go rouge during the Heresy if they were around

Are breachers and phalanx warders as useless as people say?

Not if you play IF, Zone Mortalis, or want a small but crunchy troops unit that isn't PotL.

Apparently they're still overcosted relative to the other two, but I'm afraid I'm not the best judge of that.

Question, is it possible for Diabolists of Word Bearers to take Malefic Daemonology?

I understand Librarians and Lorgar can, yet wouldn't the Demon student of the Legion, y'know, know how to Summon them? What about Erebus?

Also, Lorgar + Sanctuary + Precognition. I'm probably late, but HYPE

They don't do a lot of damage for the points, and shields are a little situational. But they're not terrible (they are a little overcosted). You just need to have a use for a unit that pays extra for durability while being more numerous than Terminators.

They're actually good for soaking charges if you're playing an infantry heavy list and have some close support you want to screen. Or they can be a good psycological unit, as RG I actually get decent use out of them infiltrating close as a bait unit to a close-combat squad, and with an apothecary they survive for quite a while even against dedicated assault units.

They really shine in ZM though.

>Their downsides are they have to use the aforementioned despoiled squads and are """forced""" to Sweep Advance.
Their actual downsides are that compulsory HQ's need to be Praetors or non-consul Centurions, requiring Grey Slayers make some RoW's unusable, and characters and Apothecaries don't synergize with your troops.

Also Frost Swords are completely unusable, who the fuck looked and these rules and thought "This is well done"?

I was considering Ultras or SW allies for a while, finally pulled the trigger on some Suzerains after seeing just how RoW-limited the wolves were.

the drawback is in how totally inflexible they are.

I gotta wonder how badly the individually packaged Calth units are selling. Still can't believe that you can buy TWO Calth boxes for the same price it would be to buy the contents of one box individually.

apparently the MkIV sell fairly well in brick and mortar GW, mostly kids that don't know alternatives exist and it's the more reasonably priced of the bunch (Source: local GW manager)

the box is going to sell hard as long as it exists, and so will prospero, I know I've bought and split 3 calth boxes and one prospero so far.

Just bought 15 Custodes, a Contemptor-Galatus, and a Caladius Grav Tank with Inferno.

Goodbye $300.

The only stinker is the Contemptor. You're dumb if you think plastic Cataphract and Mk IV will sell bad.

Im actually fucking astonished that theyre still selling Calth

I mean, I bought 4 of them, and I doubt they will stop selling it until people stop buying.

Yeah, making super hot selling items and then randomly discontinuing them sounds exactly like the stupid kind of move GW would make.

I'm not even being sarcastic. Look at Space Hulk and every limited edition model that sold out and never got a reproduction.

>Luna wolves transfers will never be made again
>$50+ on ebay if theyre on there at all

kill me

>Not showing off your beach body and love for your legion at the same time

ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-40k-Custom-Luna-Wolves-Sublimated-Bikini-American-Apparel-Size-M/222393416282

>Size M
>Medium

This is meant to for a fit/healthy body...

Please, All a want is a fit/healthy girl who also isn't a normie

>bet she would were her hair in a top knot as well...

shapeways my friend if you want shoulder pads at least

shapeways.com/shops/popbits?section=-- Moon Wolves&s=0

Women are incapable of liking something like horus heresy. Their brains just arent wired that way. The best you will ever do is find a girl who will tolerate your plastic dudesmen autism.

Now I want to do a luna wolves army. Fuck me.

So how long have the various assassination clades been kicking around?

They predated the Heresy at least

Does this sound :fun: hhg?

>victory is vengeance campaign rules
>armies must be drawn from Imperialis militia or legions only
>no unique characters
>mark II and iii armor only for Astartes
>pre-crusade schemes only
>possibly some points reworking for militia so they buy upgrades and provenances on a per-model basis
>TECHNO-BARBARIANS!

I still find it surprising that GW couldn't just slightly adjust the sprue to make the plastic Contemptor's head a separate piece. If it weren't for that one cock-up, I'd consider it salvageable, but as it stands, you need to either be a pretty good sculptor, or to just buy the FW version, to get a good Contemptor model.

You are? I'm surprised that GW main didn't decide to cash in on HH two years earlier than they did.

The assassin temples were founded by Malcador BEFORE the Inquisition. Malcador was the grand master. They were formed to do shit that the large crusade forces wouldn't be able to, and once the Heresy broke out, their necessity became apparent and their mission became trying to kill Horus.

>mk ii and iii
>pre-crusade
Does not compute.

At least you're not trying to justify Mk I in a post-Unification army though. "Marines who fight in toxic/vacuum/searing hot/freezing cold war zones on the regular, wearing unsealed, cumbersome half-suits with the defensive capabilities of carapace armour? Yeah, sounds smart to me."

Why do people say fantasy was too bloated/complicated? Fantasy was much simpler to play than 40k is in it's current state

If you knew how to play 40k you could learn fantasy in a day

Since the Imperium annexed Thor.

Whenever that was.

Are Sekhmet termies really worth the points? You pay 80 more points for 2W, force, and psyker lottery - but you lose implacable advance. Normal termies still get cult arcana buffs and you can cram more dakka in your army.

Large infantry blocks.

Wheeling.

40k is bloated but its core system is dead simple. Move, shoot, charge.

>psyker lottery
Sekhmet CHOOSE powers from pyromancy and telekinesis.

But even just force weapons for the whole unit and brotherhood of psykers with ML 2 is already worth 80 points. Add in 2 wounds each and the ability to choose a cult that increases their Invul. save by 1 and it might be the most undercosted terminator unit there is.

whoops, wrong tab

I always thought the problem with WHFB was more the way that the 8th ed. meta tended towards large armies, not the rules themselves. Newbies aren't going to want to sink several hundreds or thousands of dollars into a 2,000+ point army right off the bat, so naturally there'll be a lockout to new blood.

>requiring Grey Slayers make some RoW's unusable
I can see where this is coming from, but there isn't anywhere near a consensus yet. A lot of people (including myself) are interpreting it as, "these are your compulsory troops." I mean, most legions may only take tactical, assault, or breacher marines as compulsory troop choices, but rites of war often modify that.

I could be wrong about FW's intent. We need a FAQ. (An FAQ? No one pronounces it "fack" in real life.) The Frost weapon/blade/sword thing needs one too.

Akshually, SH gets back on the shelves almost every year for "LIMITED EDITION YOU GUYS THIS TIME IT'S THE LAST ONE FOR REALSIES!!!1!"

I don't play BA but I guess they must laugh, kinda, when they dee the "limited edition" box comes back regurlarly.

>Fit girl
>Not normie

You're asking for a lot here user. Every single girl that I know that is actually into fitness is quite the normie and wouldn't tolerate a neckbeard.

Hell, I wouldn't tolerate a fat fuck either. If I can get fit and grow some muscles, why can't she?
I deserve better, and you can too if you improve yourself.

I don't know about other regions, but GW's Australian online store has just stopped pretending that it's a limited edition. I haven't seen it go out of stock on there since just after the last reissue.

Also, Russ has a special rule allowing an army he's leading to take Wolf Guard Termies and Veteran squads as compulsory troops choices...

>Women are incapable of liking something like horus heresy. Their brains just arent wired that way. The best you will ever do is find a girl who will tolerate your plastic dudesmen autism.

There's female HH players. Hell, the biggest HH rumourmonger is a woman.

>atia
>woman

Until I see pics I'm not believing it.

Isn't "Lady" Atia an Oh-so-standard-on-Internet Man pretending to be a woman?

You can always print your own, user

inb4

>2017
>not owning a black and white laserjet printer

Request fellow HH players!
I play Word Bearers in 40k, having over 5k in points now, and a pal just got my a Lorgar and 5 Gal Vorbak for my birthday.
Needless to say, now is the time to jump into 30k for me.
Can you assist me in making a 2500pts list? Aiming for a CC heavy army, so many Drop Pods w/ Gal Vorbak inside supported by some Assault Marines?
I have many 40k options to pull from, including Deamons; but would prefer none if possible.
Was hoping to buy a Medusa next paycheck, anything else I should add?

Luckily for you there is a rite of war that fits your army exactly. The Serrated Suns rite of war lets you run gal vorbak as troops with drop pods as mandatory dedicated transports.

>2017
>taking "no wihmennz on teh intarnetz" literally

Not a fan actually as it means nothing scores! I was thinking maybe forking out for a Kharybdis for a squad of 10 Gal Vorbak actually.
What troops would work well? 1x20man Tactical and 15 Assault Marines?

Is Occult Scarab (plastic ones) too 'Tzeench-ish' already to be used in HH as Sekhmet?

Gal Vorbak are very strong in 30k, though unlike in a lot of 40k metas that means you need to exercise some restraint with them (we're all militant fluffbunnies here). That means don't take 15. You could compensate with a Mhara Gal tainted dreadnought for example, which is a little overcosted and pales next to a Leviathan.

The Serrated Suns rite of war is actually a good one if you can live without assault marines - it only lets you take them if they're in a flyer, I think. You might want to pick a different rite of war and then use Dreadclaws for the Gal Vorbak (in most cases that will mean you can't take normal drop pods - access to them is rare in 30k).

Radio Free Isstvan (podcast) ep 41 reviewed a Serrated Sun list. Their list section at the end is their strength.

How to equip tartaros Sekhmet?
Swords mean marine-mulching, which seems like a waste, axes are I1 and mauls are only relevant against a few armies.
That said, Force weapons are nice and all, but it seems like fists are nearly always superior. On the other hand, these 5 points add up quickly and you can almost buy a whole terminator for those five fists.
Same goes for combi-weapons: Five combi-plasma guns are obviously useful, but, again, cost is an issue and psychic powers can supplement shooting for free.
Am I overcomplicating things?

Just give them axes. They dont want to be in combat anyway

Thousand Sons deep strike terminator spam backed up by tactical blobs, castellax, and dreadnoughts. Yay or nay? I want a tank-free army.

not really, just the bird skull motifs that need to go for the most part. The crested helmets aren't really their pre heresy style though where they tend to have columns and slightly more of a Babylon/Persian appearance

No, they are perfectly fine as tartaros-wearing Sekhmets. I'd maybe consider filing off the bird skulls on the combi-bolters, but even that is stretching it.

Yeah, for the most part, the new 40K TSons are the least Chaosy CSM models available, if you swap out the backpacks, Discs, and parts of the Aspiring Sorcerors.

Those eye symbols are what bothers me for some reason.

>mauls in 30k

Unless you want to spank some tanks, I'd just give them swords or axes. Probably axes, but you seem way too scared about the I1 so just give them swords. I don't see how marine mulching in Marines: the Marine-ening is a bad thing.

The 40k ones actually look better. FW should have sculpted a full kit because the plastic Cataphractii's plainness is not complimenting that upgrade kit at all. I can tell the sculpts are fairly detailed in the chest area but the whole ensemble looks plain.

I am surprised they didn't do anything with the shoulderpads of the cataphractii. It would make a big difference not having those big flat surfaces there.

What is the worst thing the space wolves ever did ?

Actually, I agree. While it's toss-up whether you prefer Tartaroi or Cataphracii, the boring pauldron design and lack of general ornamentation on the FW stuff is a disadvantage to me.

not killing all of the thousand sons

Picked up the power khopeshes and some headresses for my bop tartaroi, I'd say its like GW predicted they'd get used in conversions for 30k.

True. While the chestplate and the helmets are great, the rest of the armor unsurprisingly suffers in comparison.

I didn't realize Njal's head was located on his chest until a good 10 seconds after finishing the comic. I just assumed the wolf head was his head because he was wearing a wolf head hood.

It took me years to realize the Castellax's head was the skull in its stomach and not the golden sad frog hood.

Yes, the same happened to me. I've seen this one before bot only today did I pick up on that.

Wait, that's its head?!

Not just cracking open Prospero like a rancid egg.

I plan to use the FW kit with these shoulders

shapeways.com/product/3TDTJD6Q3/5x-scarab-legion-2-cataphractii-shoulder-sets?optionId=59348315

It is ? I just assumed the castellax didn't need a face for the same reasons as the thallax : when you have enough sensors, you no longer need eyes

We have a cutaway diagram of the Thallax showing a bionic augmented skull where it's black visor is that is nearly identical to the Castellax's chest skull. The Thallax has no other skull.

We do not have a cutaway for the Castellax. However, we do have an image of a Xana II Castellax, which has broken armor revealing some internals. The interior of the "head" is simply bundles of cables. No skulls, lights, or anything head-like. While it is possible that the exposed stomach-skull we see is not the "head", the head is certainly not under the hood where we all thought it WOULD be.

...