Pathfinder General /pfg/

Friendly reminder that Wrath of the Raunchy and Taldor Ascendant are kill and will remain kill.

>PoW + avowed breaks things
>then it must be avowed that is the problem
lol

>Covetous - Oracle Curse
>You find yourself drawn to the luster of wealthy living.
>You must wear fine non-magical clothing and jewelry worth at least 50 gp + 100 gp per character level you have beyond 1st. If you do not have sufficient wealth to purchase this additional equipment, you feel a strong desire (but are not compelled) to sell existing items or steal from others to obtain it. You are sickened whenever you do not meet this requirement; you are also sickened for 24 hours after anything worth 25 gp . your character level or more is taken from you against your will.

Ask the DM if you can make it a standard drawback.

Reposting from previous thread.

Then you use counter, you must declare it before i know if attack hit me or after?
I'm talking about maneuvers without special triggers (Make an Acrobatics check, using your opponent’s attack roll as the DC for example).
Preferably with quotes from Dreamscarred Press' books.
I prefer quotes from books.

What jobs and crafts make more sense for a slayer? Which ones makes more money? Which ones are more useful to the party?

>full attacking sneak attack rogue
which fucking end things

Also your "10%~20%" shows how much math you obviously didn't do.

I suppose that depends on which half is contributing more to the brokenness.

>What jobs and crafts make more sense for a slayer?

Hunter, Trapper, Thug?

>Which ones makes more money?

Surprisingly enough, Hunter or Trapper considering you'll be skinning white lions or rare fluffy mink in no time.

>Which ones are more useful to the party?

The one that fits with Survival.

Yeah, RIP taldor.

>gm shows up to answer one set of questions, fucks off for the highlands again forever

Taxidermist.

>people rightfully complain that several disciplines do too much goddamn damage instead of actually doing anything interesting
>if you combine those things with Avowed, it does too much goddamn damage

WHO. WOULD. HAVE. THOUGHT.
insert dancing dog of "PoW Errata when" here

>two extra attacks, which must be unarmed attacks
>overcharge modulation

Sneak Attacks require specific conditions, albeit ones that are easy enough to meet. Aether Channel requires you to... Well, it just requires you to hit the dude to get the damage, with no special conditions. In addition to getting to slap on tons of modulations to change how it works. Overcharge Modulation's damage being ridiculous with Aether Channel to replace the modulation status effect is just icing on the cake. Sure, the damage gets halved when TWF, but that just means the guy who uses a 2-handed weapon continues to be better.

Some of the loudest bitching was also about how TOTALLY WRONG it is for something to be Cha SAD, which is something enabled by Aether Duelist.

Reposting from previous thread:

See There is no firmer ruling than Elric's RAI in the books at the moment. Nothing concretely says one way or the other, but I recommend letting players know the attack roll total because being able to make decisions and judgements on probability vs value enhances tactical gameplay.

>people rightfully complain that several disciplines do too much goddamn damage when optimized in a way that negates their built in downsides
Hi, Broken Blade that is supposed to be with unarmed and natural weapons (most of whom will be at a d4-d8 max) but is twinked to be used with greatswords.

How many of Broken Blade's problems would get fixed if they made a note that said the discipline *only* works if you're using unarmed, natural or close weapons?

You know, like how Piercing Thunder only works with a Piercing weapon?

Seems legit

But WotR has not even started, and the GM is in constant communication.

>Also your "10%~20%" shows how much math you obviously didn't do.

Feats not included, but:
A full BAB's attack bonus is between +1 and +5 higher than a 3/4 BAB.
Every +1 is a 5% higher chance to hit, because you need to roll 1 lower on a d20 to make it land.

Estimating play range of levels 5~14, therefore 10%~20%.

You don't use power attack because when you have all those d8s contingent on hitting, it's probably not worth sacrificing 5% hit chance per 3 extra damage.

Molthune Knights was in constant communication.

None, it would still deal too much damage. It might be LESS broken, but it would be broken nevertheless.

Are making and placing traps worth the effort?

The problem is that the general rule applied there is technically trumped by the specific feat that allows you to use a style with weapons you're not supposed to use it with.

If you're going to errata that I'd suggest making it so that you have to go "up a weight class" of weapon when taking that feat, as opposed to being able to go "down" to the point where a 2-handed weapon is being flurried like a fist.

Surprisingly few of them.
Weapon group adaptation is just the biggest offender.

Even if you're using unarmed, the level 5 combo of Bronze Knuckle + Steel Flurry Strike says hi.

>I don't have more than a highschool kvel understandimg of math

isn't that the 100 damage per round at level 5 combo?

Remember when powadrones tried to defend that as just fine?

There is literally nothing wrong with 100 damage at level 5.

It's 4am, show me the numbers and I'll say I'm wrong and go to bed.

There is a lot wrong with 100 damage at level 5.

Every other round, since you need to spend a round to refill your maneuvers so you can perform that one combination of boosts and strikes that gives you 100 damage in a round.

It's also the kind of autistic powergaming that would get most people sat down and talked to at any reasonable table.

You mean a sansetsukon.

>every other round
>anything surviving 100 damage at level 5

Good one.

A zealot or harbinger could spam that combo every round
but the problem isn't them, it's broken blade

>100 damage per round at level 5
>if you use this highly specific combo of a strike, boost, and stance
>and base your entire build around this
>and somehow always have those two maneuvers up despite only being able to use them every other round if you spend the next round to recover them
>"per round"
>this clearly means all of PoW is busted

>It's also the kind of autistic powergaming that would get most people sat down and talked to at any reasonable table.
This part is true, but the every other round thing is a pretty big deal.
Rocket tag already sucks, one hit ending anything every other round cranks it up well beyond the point of reason.
>anything surviving 100 damage at level 5
At that point the enemies should be using counters, or at the very least concealment.

Gas the twigs, Nirmathas is rightful Molthune clay.

>people defending broken blade, which even the PoW devs say is busted

I can't even tell who's countertrolling anymore.

So I talked before about new Unchained Fighter Archetypes, and have been doing some brewing along those lines. The newest archetype, the Crossbow Master can be viewed here:
>docs.google.com/document/d/1pUevSnzc65Xw2cx3ah7iL7s1BBx0bVeF8xKlL0uFIcQ/edit?usp=sharing

After feedback I have decided to drop the Mercenary Lord and the Pact Master. The Mercenary Lord will have some of its abilities rolled into Advanced Equipment Trainings, such as a Leadership ability that includes followers with certain item creation feats. The Pact Master was dropped due to simply not having a lot of design space. In order to give it something unique I would have had to essentially write an entirely new class. However I would like the talk about the current three offerings.

>Scofflaw
The Scofflaw is an intersection between the Unchained Fighter and the Unchained Rogue with its own unique ability called Scoundrel's Tricks. These are to a degree replacing Advanced Weapon Trainings and are swift action abilities activated when attacking someone that is under the same conditions that would normally qualify for Sneak Attack. Besides that they gain access to a list of Rogue Talents through Advanced Equipment Trainings and trade out half their Weapon Trainings at the same level they get Scoundrel Tricks rather than Advanced Weapon Trainings for a bit of Sneak Attack. They also reduce down from Heavy to Medium armor proficiency and lose Tower Shields, but gain two additional skill ranks per level to compensate.

(1/2)

Aside from you can do other shit like, swapping between zenith strikes with a gambit, or one of the easy gambits with a zenith strike because zenith strike can stand on its own fine, meaning you are still dropping shitloads of damage every round.

>The Gentleman
This is a working name for the archetype. The idea behind it is a gentlemanly fighter, someone at home in debate and the like. It takes inspiration from baritsu, an english martial arts focused around the weighted cane most famously seen in Sherlock Holmes. The Gentleman gains additional techniques and riding abilities to his combat maneuvers when using the weighted cane as well as a number of abilities that enhance his social skills. The former replace a number of Advanced Weapon Trainings and the latter become Advanced Equipment Trainings. As well they lose armor proficiency down to light as well as some changed Armor Training, but gain abilities such as Uncanny Dodge and Evasion as compensation.

>Duelist
This is something I have been thinking through. This would be a dexterity based fighter around using a weapon in one hand and a parrying dagger in the offhand. They would gain an ability to parry and deflect blows, scaling as they level and being spent like AoOs. They would gain bonuses if they strike the same target multiple rounds in a row, as well as classic bonuses to disarm, trip, etc. The parrying dagger would be the crux of this archetype as many of its abilities would be based on having the parrying dagger with the character. As well likely it would be replacing an advanced armor training in favor of a scaling shield bonus to ac when using a parrying dagger, as well as the parrying dagger's enhancement bonus counting towards said shield bonus to AC.

Does anyone have any thoughts on these possibly archetypes for the Unchained Fighter? Also possible better names for the last two, I am having a hard time coming up with names for them.

Obviously not going to happen, but like I said that's why it's powergaming of the worst caliber to the point that it makes you That Guy, at my table we call it Droga's Law after one of us built an alchemist that was leagues ahead of all of us, to the point where we all needed to be put on mob duty while her character killed the boss almost by herself.

What would people say needs to be changed/removed?

>I'm defending broken blade
>implying people aren't just pointing out that "100 damage PER ROUND" is bullshit

nobody is saying broken blade isn't busted, just that the bullshit edge case is not as bullshit as shitposters are crying about.

I have returned with another avowed. I have double-checked for errors more thoroughly. This time, I am using only material from Paizo + Avowed 1 + Avowed 2. Could someone please go over this to check if I have committed any errors?

In any case, this is a 9th-level character with at-will invisibility, initiative +18, and the ability to destroy a CR 14 or 15 opponent in a single full attack. How well did I do in optimizing an avowed?

Level: 9th
Race: Tiefling (Small size, prehensile tail, scaled skin, underworld guide)
Class: Avowed (undead [lich] pact, balefire infusion)

Key Ability Score: Dexterity 30 = base 18 + racial 2 + level advancement 2 + enhancement 4 + size bonus for Tiny vermin 4 as a tiny botfly
Key Equipment: Belt of incredible dexterity +4 (16,000 gp), cracked pale green prism ioun stone (4,000 gp)

Key Traits:
Combat: Reactionary
Social: Student of Philosophy
Possibly another trait with a drawback

Feats (possibly with Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot at lower levels, retrained away later):
1st-level: Improved Initiative
3rd-level: Overcharge Modulation (lifeleech pulse)
5th-level: Weapon Focus (aether pulse)
7th-level: Extra Clause
9th-level: Steel's Betrayal

Shapes: Aether barrage ×4, aether retaliation, either aether cascade or aether swarm

Clauses:
Least: Hidden knowledge, silver tongue, lifeleech pulse, sightseer
Lesser: Insectile transformation, fade from sight, airspace control, unbind spell, fly on the wall

Initiative:
10 Dexterity modifier
+2 underworld guide
+2 Reactionary
+4 Improved Initiative
Total: +18, and probably with a surprise round from at-will invisibility

Aether Barrage Attacks:
2 attacks from BAB
1 attack from aether barrage's second purchase
Total Attacks: 3

Range: 100 feet + 90 feet from caster level = 190 feet

Aether Barrage Attack Bonus:
6 BAB
+10 Dexterity modifier
+1 Weapon Focus
+2 Tiny size
+1 cracked pale green prism ioun stone
-6 Steel's Betrayal
Total: = +14/+14/+9, targets touch AC, negates all miss chances

Aether Barrage Damage:
5d8 aether pulse
+10 Dexterity modifier
+3 tiefling avowed FCB
+12 Steel's Betrayal
Total: 5d8+25 (average 47.5), multiplied by 1.5 (average 71.25) due to balefire infusion, Empower Spell-Like Ability, and Overcharge Modulation

If all three attacks hit, they will deal an average of 213.75 damage.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E2-s8weiulPoBQjdI05LBzOUToyoZIdSsLKxHAvf8F8/edit#gid=3
They will probably hit a CR 14 or 15's flat-footed touch AC, and they will probably tear through such a CR 14 or 15's hit points.

In the event that the target survives, the target will still take 27 damage at the start of the avowed's next turn due to the undead pact's 4th-level empowerment. The avowed is somewhat of a glass cannon, but the airspace control clause at least grants concealment.

The character's noncombat utility includes:
• Hidden knowledge: +6 bonus to all Knowledge checks, and using Knowledges untrained
• Silver tongue: +6 bonus to all Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks
• Sightseer: See perfectly in any darkness out to any range, and see invisibility
• Fade from sight: At-will invisibility
• Unbind spell: At-will dispel magic
• Fly on the Wall: At-will Fine-sized scout with very high Stealth bonus and shared senses

Not bad for a 9th-level character.

What errors did I commit this time?

Self Pact is a different issue, but I don't see base Avowed's SAD as a problem.

Making your attacks and clause DCs the same stat is one feat.
Making your clause DCs and HP/FORT the same stat is two feats and a trait.

The former is cheap and dippable, the latter is pricey - often worth it, but no small cost and one many builds can't afford.

>It's also the kind of autistic powergaming that would get most people sat down and talked to at any reasonable table.
It's hardly optimising to take max strength, a decent weapon (sanketsuon works), one stance, two maneuvers and shit out tons of damage.

I suppose there is also this for noncombat utility:

>Consume Spirit (8th): As a full-round action, you can absorb a psychic imprint left in the corpse or remains of a creature. If you do, you gain a flash of memory as you absorb part of their spirit. This memory (or group of memories), determined by the GM, is almost always something personally relevant to you or your goals, if such a memory exists. If the creature is completely irrelevant to you, you instead absorb a memory of grave importance to the now-dead creature. You can only use this ability once for any given creature’s remains.

Thus, immediately after this bug-avowed of ours demolishes the CR 14 or 15 monster in one turn, the insect can gather some intel from the corpse.

Is there anything else that works like Magical Knack in 1pp?

>Every +1 is a 5% higher chance to hit
5% flat chance to hit. If you hit the target on 11, +5 tohit is +50% dpr on first iterative. If you hit on 6 with your second iterative, +5 tohit is +100% dpr to it.

>I don't see base Avowed's SAD as a problem.
>build in this very thread is a level 9 one turn killing a CR 14/15 with a huge success rate

Kys senpai

>If all three attacks hit

Because of Steel's Betrayal, your attack bonuses on this will be +8/+8/+3

Even assuming flat footed touch AC of 10, your damage is more like (19/20 + 19/20 + 13/20 ) x 71.25 which is closer to 181 damage.
So... you can take out a CR13.

Which is still pretty good, but a bit more accurate.

>an average of 213.75 damage
20% of paizo-only level 10 summoner, not bad.

>This build doesn't have anything at all to do with SAD, it's ignored cha for just pumping dex purely for the sake of getting its initiative and ranged attack rolls high, which anything can do

Well done.

Link build, I'm curious.

You will note that I have already included Steel's Betrayal in the calculations.

Aether Barrage Attack Bonus:
6 BAB
+10 Dexterity modifier
+1 Weapon Focus
+2 Tiny size
+1 cracked pale green prism ioun stone
-6 Steel's Betrayal
Total: = +14/+14/+9, targets touch AC, negates all miss chances

Firs impressions are important, but I am shit at them so here's my 3rd impression

app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/70013/pathfinder-reign-of-winter

Come for the waifus, stay for the waifus and maybe the other players, who knows.

paizo.com/threads/rzs2mhpi&page=5?The-DPR-Summer-Olympics-or-What-are-we#227

You are entirely right, it is time for me to go to bed.

What is the Point Buy?

20

That's not really a problem with it being SAD - the only ability score RELEVANT there is Charisma.

Neat

That's not against a CR 14/15. Put it up against higher ACs and the summoner's damage goes down.

Mithral brings down arcane spell failure, so does darkleaf. Do these stack?

Say you have a chain mail (ASF 20%), made of mithral and darkleaf. Is it a 0% arcane spell failure armor? Is there an enchantment to further reduce it?
The trait solution and giving up swift actions is bullshit.

I don't think you can have armor made of more than one special material, at least not made significantly enough of multiple materials so as to have the mechanical effects of both.

>that build doesn't use any of the SAD-enabling feats/traits/whatever
>is a bundle of shit that makes assumptions out the ass and is just a wad of numbers

if we're pulling shit out of our ass anyway, then I'm going to say that everything this avowed faces has an item of Constant Scales of Deflection.
d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/scales-of-deflection/

Pretty sure you can't make something out of two special materials.

Aside from you can't make it out of two special materials.

>Items not primarily constructed of leather, fur, or hide are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of darkleaf cloth.
>Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a quarterstaff cannot.)

Is Cornugon Smash worth it even for characters with very low charisma?

If you have intimidating prowess and high STR then yes

>mfw Adamantine longsword with lacquered darkwood grip

You can change intimidate from Cha to Int or Str last time I checked.

What are the incorrect assumptions made in constructing this build?

Also, an item of constant Scales of Deflection would not function for the same reason that an item of constant True Strike would not function: the effect would be discharged each time.

Spending anything at all on Intimidate is worthless unless you actually have useful riders on it like the potential to escalate to Frighten, or Shatter Defenses. "Maybe inflicting Shaken" is not worth dicks.

>tfw when /pfg/ is planning a Reign of Winter campaign and you're about to play your first session of a different Reign of Winter game in a couple hours

I still don't know whether it'll be extra fun because we can compare notes on how our respective campaigns are going and have lots of storytime OR if we'll have to just keep quiet to avoid spoiling things for each other and shit.

As far as I know, there's no 1PP enchantment for reducing ASF, but 3.5 had an enchantment called Twilight that reduced ASF by 10%, stacking with mithral's ASF reduction, and cost a +1 bonus.

eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/twilight

>/pfg/ is planning

Considering it's voice, it's not really a /pfg/ game. It's more of just fishing for the few people that don't mind voice.

You assume that people from /pfg/ join my game? Thank you for the vote of confidence, but I am doing this out of desperation. Besides, it's mostly 1pp unless somebody who tries to get in or does get in manages to turn my head on the issue.

How am I supposed to waifu if there's no lewds.

And isn't that damage only ridiculous in the case of a gestalt, where literally two classes whose primary ability is "add this to your hits" are being stacked right up?

Pity. Doesn't chain mail have some sort of undershirt so as to not chafe the skin?

I read that reducing armor check penalties also works somehow.

That would be neat.

Hey, plenty of us like voice!

>How am I supposed to waifu if there's no lewds.

You do it the old fashioned way, using voice.

I've played plenty of voiced campaigns where my character had a waifu, it's not really that weird unless you make it weird.

No seriously, I know there's the anxiety over saying those sorts of things to other people, but odds are they don't care cuz they've said the same thing before. Being goofy romantic is actually kind of a plus in voiced.

Quite true. Things only got iffy on the day of session 1, when suddenly the GM had been retroactively sick all week and had to "keep it short", before disappearing after talking a short intro permanently.

Right up until the last minute the GM had been in constant communication

Should I go with greatswords or polearms? Do they share feats/skill/etc?

Honestly, I wish there were more ways to boost the shaken penalty instead of improving the condition to frightened. But the only thing I've seen that does that is one of the Cavalier orders, Cockatrice IIRC. I guess there is Shattered Defenses, but if you're already good at hitting things and you don't have sneak attack that's not actually worth a lot.

>Furthermore, I hope that they do actually place a sidebar explaining that the avowed was never meant to interact with the Path of War, despite the explicit mention of said Path of War.
Stop being so fucking retarded, they don't need to do any such thing. The majority of players aren't fucking autists and so understand things like "3pp is never balanced with other 3pp from different publishers in mind".

I mean the GM isn't using a throw away account, so that might be a good sign?

Which one fits the character concept more? 2d6 ain't too different from 1d10.

Hell, the DM is a player in another campaign, you can be sure I'd give him shit for WotR falling through.

You are allowed to hold hands if that's what you mean.

I've been meaning to make it voice and text down a week or so (meaning if you want to communicate through text you can do that, but if people want to voice then they can voice [mainly because I believe that people can be fast writers] with me doing voice mostly because speaking while DMing is faster) down like a week or so to see if that attracts more people.

They don't share feats and there's more feats specifcally for polearms thatn greatswords (or at least archetypes) unless you intend to take the Divine Fighting Style for the greatsword

I houserule you can choose whether to increase duration OR the actual penalty imposed by the condition for every 5 you exceed by.

I can only be so hard