Warmachine/Hordes General

>Arcuarii and Incindiarii are irredeemable trash.
Right, except that they're not. Maybe "redeemable trash"? Like, they're not that great out of the box, but if you support them a bit they can do some good work.

As a convenient for-instance, in a heads up fight Incindiarii will make all three of nihilators, swordsmen and karax cry sad, sad tears of sadness.

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Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points

(Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30]
- Troll Axer [10]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
- Troll Impaler [11]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
- Dire Troll Bomber [19]
- Dire Troll Bomber [19]
Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9]
Fennblade Kithkar [4]

thoughts? I posted it last thread as it was dying and was recommended to put in a solo, so I threw in the Kithkar since I'm running Fennblades.

I don't think Arcuarii are that bad considering their guns one shot solos. And a min unit of Incindiarii is better value than a max ;^)

I like how /wmhg/ lately has been Skorne Army Lists General because every other faction has nothing to talk about.

I think a fell caller hero is generally considered better

Steamroller 2017 will shake up the meta, simply because it will FORCE everyone to play combined arms.

Not entirely sure about that. It just means that if you skew you better skew hard.

Also, if you've already cleared a zone, you won't have too much trouble running a vassal/SpellMartyr/etc. in there.

You only need to combined arms if you plan to win on points. Not to mention that warnouns might still be able to contest a warrior zone which sort of ruins the idea of needing combined arms.

Shield wall works against fire now so fire rolls on karax need 8s

>Karax
>Ever using Shield Wall
Nigger you best mean Cetrati.

Learning when to SW and when not is step1 in learning to play Karax. ARM19 is not trivially cracked.

Yeah but if you're putting Karax next to each other you're negating how strong a screen they make. Set Defense is all the protection they need unless you have a seriously good reason to actually use Shield Wall. It's their worst ability by a margin.

Or you could just go lmaoassassination

When you're up against POW10 shots or ELeaps you need to SW or they'll all just die.

The shots would be less of a problem if you just tied the cunts up in the first place :^)

You need to score points because scenario points matter more than assassinations in tournaments ranking.

You know fully well why that is not an option.

Not if you win every round on assassination because then you win the tournament.

Not to be rude, but it is a very bad list. You never want impaler in 75pts lists. Both bouncers and bombers can be run as double but probably not in that list so think what role two can fill that one cannot. You need a mauler because pp hates you and your beasts hit like wet noodles, which is only partially offset by pulverizer. Ragnor wants a runebearer and fennblades MUST have the officer&drummer. Stone scribe elder is also really good in that list.

Hero costs one point too many.

>Sees Steamroller 2017 spoilers
>Looks at all the stuff I bought last week for my Irusk2 list with Behemoth as the only jack.

T-thanks PP...

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Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points

(Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30]
- Dire Troll Bomber [19]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
- Troll Axer [10]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
- Troll Impaler [11]
- Trollkin Runebearer [4]
Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15]
- Fennblade Officer and Drummer [5]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9]
- Stone Scribe Elder [3]
Fell Caller Hero [5]

I think my only problem now is that since this was going to be the end goal for a Journeyman, it has three items too many for it to properly fit. I think. It's my first journeyman so I'm not 100% on the rules, but we'll see.

Two thoughts there:
First, as a few others said (, ) shieldwall is not something Karax usually use, although it does have some niche applications.
Second, against something like Incindiarii, it might actually work against you. Yes, fire is less likely to kill them individually, but on the other hand bunching up makes it much easier to set all of them on fire.

Gentlemen, how do we fix Trolls?

With garden shears?

More autistic screeching should help. Skorne did it, Cryx is currently doing it and Trolls should just jump on the bandwagon.

You only need them in 2s or 3s. Standard procedure for shield wall is to have small packets of them spread our to the extent of the command range.

That looks pretty decent and should get you far. If you want to make it extra good drop the impaler and make stone min+elder and get two units of fire eaters.

Ban krielstone, everything gets +2ARM and +1POW. It will make trolls equal to other factions point by point, remove the need to go first and make ranged game on par. It will also free up #designspace by removing stone from the stacking allowance.

Ban agonizer beast handlers and krea, give every skorne model +2 arm and the beasts +2 str

Huh, just saw the new faction.

So, what are people's thoughts on Grymkin in general?

I'll for Fuck Menoth: The Faction, but when it comes to otherworldly nightmares from beyond I'd probably have preferred Infernals.

Ban sentry stones and give every beast +1 fury and the ability to teleport

I like their design, they certainly captured the otherwordly tone well, but probably not enough to actually get them. That said, the casters all sound fucking awesome, they went into some of their rules in the newest primecast.

I just got the original Monsternomicon a few days ago, and I never realized just how fleshed out Infernals were right from the start. Design wise they step on Everblight's toes a bit, but it almost feels like they did something different just because Infernals were the obvious choice.

>It will make trolls equal to other factions point by point
Your 12/18 statline is much better than the 10/19 and 11/18 that Skorne and Legion get for the same or a LOT more points. You also get bigger inbuilt threat than a Titan, Smash and Grab, and multiple self-heals on top of your animus that turns anything into a serious threat. Suck my dick if you think Trollblood heavies are even close to bad.

wait why does shield wall work on fire roles now? it shouldn't?

Never trust beautiful scantily clad women that live alone in the woods

Because shield wall doesn't end until next activation, and fire damage isn't back arc.

How do you know that? It's not like this idea has ever been done before..

I think the consensus is that Grymkin feel like uninspired Malifaux ripoffs. They'll appeal to a certain segment, but I'm not part of it. On the upside, if you already have Neverborn models, Free Army! So, hooray, I guess?

We've only had hints about their rules, so nobody is really in any position to judge there.

Continuous effects don't bypass shields, because the only thing that bypasses shields is attacks from the back arc and chain weapons. It's fucking stupid, but there you go.

Find yourself on fire? Block it with your shield.

Yeah, thanks, I've been playing this game for more than 5 minutes. Putting them in 2's and 3's for shieldwall is "bunched up". AOE's still set multiple models on fire. In that scenario you probably lose 4 models to direct hits on average rolls, and everybody is on fire. Spread out, and you still lose the 4, but only maybe 2-3 of the remaining 6 are burning.

Karax don't have to worry about blast, fortunately, so it IS an option for them. I was just pointing out that there is also a downside, at least if you're dealing with a continuous effect. Against something like e-leaps, magic bullet, or ashes to ashes the shieldwall option becomes more appealing.

It kinda makes sense, from a fluff perspective. Most of the things setting you on fire are coming from the front (sprays, blasts, etc), so you just hold that shield up Dragonslayer style and block that shit. You're still on fire, sure, but the fire is mostly on your shield, not on your face. Seems ok.

When it was the other way in Mk2 everybody bitched about it, so now they did this. I'm ok with it, this way is probably more intuitive. Saw a lot of new players balk over the years explaining the various shortcomings of shield wall.

Godammit, Infernals would have been such a cool faction.

That's not how "average rolls" work.

Needing a 7 to kill does not mean 4/4 are dead. It means 58% of the ones directly hit are dead.

Unless you mean a max unit of 6 shots? In which case, about 3 would be dead from direct hits and 6 would be dead from direct hits outside of shield wall.

The faction definitely does need some love, but I think the super-cheap kriel warriors are one of the things that actually work OK. They're a bit like Karax in skorne now, you can just throw em in any list as a screen. 1.1 points per man,1.2 with the (pretty solid) UA. I know of at least one player that's been tooling around with 2 full units, just like "kill these 20 tough dudes, and then you can deal with my actual list". Quite a few popular list styles, notably heavy spam, really struggle with that.

Feels like it's reaaaally stretching the imagination. Like rolling boxcars for damage means oh the fire was actually on you and now youre dead. Roll snake eyes and it's a bit of warmth on your shield arm.

Maybe I'm just annoyed how the rules just don't outright say it. Like, if I recall, continuous damage has no origin of attack and so that's why it can be blocked, because only attacks originating from the back arc can't be blocked.

I mean, I get why they did it, still don't like how they did it though. Then again I think spraying someone with a template and rolling to hit everyone underneath it is also a dumb concept they went with. Templates punish clumping, but your rat 5 flamethrower will rarely touch my def 15 striders no matter how clumped together they are.

I'm just in a sour mood desu, work sucked today.

How good are bombers? I have very little play experience and i play protectorate. But i love troll aesthetics and the bomber is one of my favs.

So to the cuck in the last thread saying that Rasheth wasn't the best in Skorne, who do you consider to be the best, and why? At present it looks like players are only using Xerxis1, Rasheth, Makeda1, and Zaadesh2 besides a couple outliers in lower level events. Rasheth seems to be the most commonly used among those 4, and in my own play I've gotten way more juice out of him than the others.

Alot of people are griping about how hodgepodge they seem but from what ive been reading the units are physical embodiments of each one of the 5s different nightmares which makes sense thematically why hollowmen and the pumpkin dudes are so different. Other than that the units kind of just fit their own theme with the kits. Pumpkin guys throw that whole children of the corn "the harvest" thing and they generate resources by harvesting bodies. The hollowmen are a nasty gunline. Just parodying the idea of strategy warfare and how many people needlessly died before geurilla warfare was just deemed a smarter way to handle things. I like how they combo differently, heretics arcana with hollowmen seems fun. If i was going to play a second army and try out hordes id probably go for them.

>Malifaux ripoffs

Malifaux did not invent grim fairy tale aesthetics. Hell, there's only really one faction in the game with that theme.

I really wish the pumpkin guys weren't so pumpkin-y.

And while the idea of the pig cavalry is great, as gluttons who get fat through other people's accomplishments transformed into steeds for pig monsters, they look kinda... I dunno, out of place.

The hollow men look fucking great. Without a doubt the creepiest undead stuff in the game.

On primecast they said they were intended to look out of place. The soldiers of the iron kingdoms are inured to the horrors of cryx and everblight. Grymkin represents a kind of insanity that they can't handle.

I just find it weird to have pig monsters when there is an entire faction that is pigmen.

who's ready for a caster that can technically hit something 45 inches away?

...that seems a bit difficult to believe. I mean, if you can deal with Cryx and Everblight I'm not sure that Pig Cavalry will scare you.

Used in just about any trollblood list you will ever see, sometimes 2. Building a list usually starts with a Mauler, Bomber, and krielstone, then you go from there.

It wasn't about being scary, it was about being insane and incomprehensible. You can comprehend a mechanithrall or a spoopy skeleton, or an emo elf.

all the unit are actually former sinners that the defiers reprogrammed to be embodiments of the worst parts of themselves in urcaen then sent back to caen to fuck shit up

the hollowmen are battlefield deserters of war and now trap other souls on the battlefield.

the pumkinheads were farmers who took advantage of helpless people in a famine. Because they watched people die of starvation instead of doing something, they were forced to were a pumkin on their head that grew roots in their limbs so no they have to watch people die by their own hand without being able to help.

it's pretty cool imo

In an escalation league playing Thags1, week 1 i've only got his 28 warbeast points, was gonna use a Carnivean and Raek (27pts), how does that sound? Then week 2 I get +18 pts, eventually ending up playing 58pts. Don't ask why my store chose 58pts cause I don't know

This. The primecast brought to mind the same idea behind the Lovecraft mythos, just taken in a different direction. The idea that something so drastically incomprehensible to the human brain can be far more terrifying and mentaly draining than something that's 'normal' but threatening.

In this case, the grymkin aren't traditionally frightening (save perhaps the hollowmen) but they are at best offputting and on a battlefield with multiple raining down on you and harming, wounding and even killing the people around you, they drive you insane due to how out of the world it is. You can't believe it's happening because it makes no damn sense.

Cryx and everblight are scary shit, but they're mostly traditional fears: undead, scary momsters, etc. Things that, even if you haven't seen for yourself, you can't deny they exist.

that's a solid base to start on. is week 2 BG only or can you put anything in?

returning player and i would appreciate some advice. i have reznik1, kreoss1, and sev2.

who should i focus on building up for mk3?

holy shit, that's amazing. I've been losing cetratii to fire rolls :(

>Malifaux did not invent grim fairy tale aesthetics. Hell, there's only really one faction in the game with that theme.
Malifaux took the idea of a tabletop game based on a mashup of myths and ran with it. They absolutely didn't "invent" the original myth ideas, but the approach and the style are definitely unique and easily identifiable.

This isn't just a ripoff of Malifaux in the sense of "general concept of fairy tales as supernatural horror"; that's been done all over the place and is fair game. It's a ripoff in the sense of "all the best ideas appear to be directly lifted almost whole cloth from specific malifaux characters".

The only way it makes any sense is if the devs come out and admit the grymkin are supposed to be a malifaux homage or something. I mean, they even called the not-a-feats "Arcana" for crissake, like from tarot. You know, those cards you can use to read people's fate? Yeah, like that.

Grymkin were part of the IK before Malifaux even existed.

>Feels like it's reaaaally stretching the imagination.
No more of a stretch than believing Peter McNichol could win in a fight against a badass dragon though, is my point.

>your rat 5 flamethrower will rarely touch my def 15
See, that one makes sense to me too... nimble elf guys can jump out of the way. At the end of the day, the rules have to serve a fun game, and if we can justify those rules with fluff, then great.

the only auto hits are from explosions. dodge a grenade

>Grymkin were part of the IK before Malifaux even existed.
That argument doesn't hold water. The things that were called "grymkin" in the old RPG bear no meaningful resemblance to this new faction. Please dig out your copy of Witchfire and point me to the bit where hordes of pigs riding on guys' shoulders attacked. Page # or it didn't happen.

Why the heck does everyone think "fairytale monsters make for a good RPG villain-of-the-week" translates to "fairytale monsters make a good basis for an army"? Hell, the only "old" grymkin we've even seen, far as I can tell, is the gentleman stranger. And even he doesn't seem to have much in common with his original incarnation.

Weren't glimmer imps in the monsternomicon?

tell me this isn't malafeux art

>Hell, the only "old" grymkin we've even seen, far as I can tell, is the gentleman stranger

First off, Lord Longfellow (the spider in a trenchcoat) isn't a Gentleman Stranger. He's just a character grymkin. Secondly, they've already confirmed Gremlins, Trapperkin, and Cask Imps as well for the faction.

Week 1: BG only (0 pts)
Week 2: BG + Solos (18 pts)
Week 3: BG + Solos + Units (20 pts)
Week 4: BG + Solos + Units (20 pts)

kk anyssa is fun

I wanted one more beast though, any suggestions? I was thinking an Angelius or something

angel would be a good choice. so would proteus or another carnivean. depends on who youre up against

My main opponent is Cryx, I'm having trouble against the Coven feat and my lack of anything to boost attack roles. Maybe Anyssa's prey will help

>if it wasn't in Witchfire, it absolutely isn't in the Warmachine/Hordes/IKRPG setting
Calm your tits, are they not supposed to expand the setting beyond what you've seen before? That's like saying the greylord MoW on the way doesn't belong since we've never seen one in MoW armor before.

I like 'em. I like the fairy tale aesthetic and ya, there basically just the neverborn from Malifaux, but I really like the look of the neverborn from malifaux. I think the heavy warbeasts they showed are probably the least appealing, visually, to me. But the light warbeasts and all the infantry I really enjoyed.

Assuming you could get it within shooting range, a Seraph might help.

Worst case you could use Slipstream to push the Carny up the Coven's collective asses faster.

for the first week theres not much you can do vs coven. i'll parrot the seraph advice. put either raptors or hell mouth in as soon as you can add units

Yeah, let's make their beasts 12/20 natievely. Sure thing bro.

This. I'm just gonna say fuck it to random turn ending and try to just end the game when I want it to end.

NOW

Vayl2?

who's ready for a second one in the same faction?

Are you referring to Kallus setting dudes on fire?

I'm going to assume that even if you can't score an objective, you can still contest. in which case, why ever play scenario?

brand is a pow 14 on the initial target. it's not much but that's why i said technically

I like big healthpools, elite statlines and low model count, basically 'jackspam or MMM
What faction does this best?
Khador?

Yup, that's Khador. Harkevich and Karchev in particular.