Legacy General

Fringe decks eh? I recently played against a guy (who crushed me) with a RUG Delver deck, but Sans Delver. Just ran 3 TNN and 4 nimble mongoose. "Why?" I asked. He responded with "Delver sucks ass it does to removal" he had a fair point I didn't manage to kill a single one of his creatures

Currently I am playing False Cure and the deck may not be that good (though positioned well against Miracles because of free spells and mainboard Reverent Silence) but it's perpetually a blast to play.
I wish there was a modernized False Cure but there is no way that they'll reprint the precise wording that lets False Cure do what it does.

I play a lot against DnT, UR delver, a little Miracles, TES, cleric tribal, old school Pox and some maverick variant that looks like a pile but will eat you alive. Also Werewolf Stompy which is a super dumb deck.

Mongoose used to be a bit of a powerhouse. Had a very similar build to delver decks. I mean if you really think about it, the creatures in delver decks could be easily substituted. Most of them are just value, delver is good just cause its fast and flys over stuff.

Cleric tribal in legacy? Iv'e herd a tiny bit about werewolf stomp before, it used imperial recruiter and huntsmaster. But it seemed more like a jund or nicfit splash from what I saw though.

Yeah, Daru Spiritualist combo. Runs Thoughtsieze, Duress, Fatal Push and s2p.
Wins off infinite life or infinite damage.

It's not very good, but it's good fun to play some lower tier games against. Still powerful and consistent enough to win games against high tier legacy decks, but just not quite good enough to play with the big boys all day. Much like The Cure in that respect.

This Werewolf Stompy is a pretty standard Blood Moon/Trinisphere/Chalice prison deck with the 3 drop werewolf defender as the finisher. Plays about how you would expect, and about as weak to mulligans as other monored stompy variants.

May I see your decklist.

>Rug Delver-less Delver
So Canadian Threshold. Got it.

Haven't been able to go to locals for a while because work, which is also keeping me from going to the legacy classic on sunday qq

Yeah I realize that but it was so weird seeing a mongoose. It was really relevant to because if any of his 7 creatures were a Delver instead of a TNN or mongoose either would've won but I couldn't kill any of his creatures

Yeah I guess now that you say that it's what it was. The guy playing just described it was Delver sans delver

Burn and 12post are fine decks, fuck those guys.

Know how you feel though, the know-it-all-ism among people who have splurged for tier decks is obnoxious as hell.

Maybe just consider packing dedicated hate against that meta instead of trying to make a 'generally' good build. You'll have better odds at winning, and if they complain tell them they're free to build different decks if they like.
There's no shame in tuning against a local meta. Eidolon of the Great Revel and Scab-Clan Berserker against Storm (heck plenty of people even main that shit to hate better) or some kind of heavy stacks effects to fuck with Miracles as 12post, who knows.

If you enjoy playing Burn and 12post, then just keep practicing and have variant lists tuned for both local/wider metas.
Don't let snobs get to you, they're everywhere.
I live in a poorfag area and it's full of snobs too. (They shell out for the tier deck they expect to win for them, and sell it for the next fotm tier deck if they have to. You'll find it really is a common behavior.)

TL;DR: Play what you like, proxy and then shell out later for stuff you can't afford yet, and work to gain percentages with tight play.
So long as you grow and have fun in your gameplay, it's worth it

Is it just me or would anyone else like to see some more tribal in legacy? I mean we have goblins, Merfolk and elves and [insert creature type] stompy, but I'd love to see some more tribes get enough love to become atleast tier 2 decks in legacy

>Casualfag detected

Runnin' Pox! Went 3-2 at the last event. Next event is this Monday, and I'm excited because I added Lost Legacy and Extirpate, which I think might give me some reach I need to put away the combo decks I lost to last time.

I've heard good things about Soldier Tribal, personally.

>I've heard good things about Soldier Tribal, personally.

Aka stompy aka abuse sol lands plus chalice plus whatever undercosted creatures wizards prints nowadays

Lost Legacy always looked interesting in pox to me. Be sure to tell us if it ends up being shit or not

I remember that to, I think it was at an eternal weekend thing. I mean they have their own goblin lackey. Their dudes are decent in terms of mana cost. I would see it being a thing.

I've had it come up before. As for most stompy decks, they'll smash you if you aren't prepared.

It's good to be back, thanks op

I actually found this deck reading though old forums.
x3 bayu
x4 bloodstain mire
x4 dark ritual
x4 hynm to tounarc
x4 hypnotic specter
x4 nantuko shade
x3 seal of primordium
x4 polluted delta
x4 sinkhole
x4 snuffout
x6 swamp
x4 tarmogoyf
x4 thoughtseize
x4 tombstalker
x4 wasteland
SIDE: I just threw this togeather quick without really thinking. Didnt bother reading the fourm on the side.
x1 pithing needle
x4engineerd plague
x4 leyline of the void
x2 choke
x4 ashen rider
This is kinda what got me into wanting to build black pox. This deck kinda evolved into BG pox/loam pox. Shade if fun though. This deck eats though its hand quick, twards mid game, you dont really have anything to do, so you just sticm a shade and pump him with sick gains.

Mind Twist unban when?

So what are your favorite cards that are amazing in lecagy, but total shit in other formats/non erstablished metas. pic related.

For me I guess it'd be terminus or EtA. Though I don't particularly love those cards

too slow
why bother

a better move will be a format with no bans, all cards allowed, loops == draw.

My buddie and I did that for a bit. Literally turn t: the format.

"when you gotta take a shit, run"
words to live by

Tainted Remedy?

Tainted Remedy doesn't allow the Kavu Predators to get HUGE. It's okay as False Cure number 5 but I don't run it because if my Predators aren't getting fat I don't really see the point.

No, not really.

So ive been playing pox in lew of 12 post and have been squeaking out a few more win in general. Its so slow and grindy. shits on eldrazi and delver, but has issue4 vs a lot of other things. Is there a non blue non combo deck that has fairly even matchups across the board thats not D&T?

Eldrazi

I'm sure you take some stompy decks to good finishes if you try hard enough

Stompy decks are fine as others have said. Maverick is the typical non-blue midrange deck with pretty balanced matchups, nothing too extreme, although I think miracles is pretty bad. Then there is also jund, which gets shit on by combo but also slaughters small creature decks. 4c loam is probably the best if you are looking for a deck of this kind of style. It can grind pretty well and also lock out combo decks with chalice/teeg. There aren't any too terribly lopsided matchups

If you are losing with 12 post frequently there's something wrong with your deck or the way you play it.

Maverick already got mentioned, but Nic Fit is also decent, I'm not sure but I would imagine both decks got a new toy in Renegade Rallier.

I'm still jamming on this.
Pic related, copter eldrazi Stompy.

Also cut the wastes and put in a 3rd wasteland

his buddy Veteran Explorer is also pretty shitty

a friend of mine once asked to play, all I had was Nic Fit, and all he had was a Standard deck. He said he didn't mind if mine was a legacy deck.

This dood is dropping Atarka's and shit on me with all the basics he's pulling, biggest thing I have is a Grave Titan, and only one. It was shameful.

Yeah I love the contrast between legacy and standard some times. I have countertop active but I can't counter anything because they're all 5 and 7 mana spells

>be fish player
>keep Misdirection in SB
>tfw T2 Misdirect Hymn

A bit off topic but I remember someone wanting to show off his old extended affinity deck and picked me and my jank-ass standard deck as the dude to do it against.

Turns out Cranial Plating-based affinity runs into issues when your opponent gets a turn 2 Doran and knows to hold crib swap for your ravagers. The salt was ungodly.

does anyone else like running legacy affinity?

I love artifact land based explosive plays and all-in blowouts. I also like how full artifact land affinity is more comfortable going for the long game.

On a similar topic, is anyone playing Legacy Twin these days?

I get my explosive artifact kicks with Tezzerator, but I can see why affinity would be fun.

I've played vs a few Twin decks, it didn't seem very good though. I did end up learning something from the matchup though and I'm testing 1-2 Izzet Charm mainboard, it's pretty versatile and looting is great when you have Sword of the Meek to pitch.

I just found I had nearly all the pieces for affinity lying around. Much of them are straight 1-1 modern to legacy. Been having a real good time losing terribly but winning game 1. In my meta it's probably very poorly positioned, with people playing artifact hate because of Stompy variants but it's still good fun.
Twin seems fine, but it also feels like counterbalance + top is a better combo, ya know?

Well most of what I end up playing against is delver, DnT, renimator and Storm. Delver and D&T are evenish....reanimator is a blow out, as is storm most of the time. Occasionally their will be a lands and thats just god awful.

Is omnitell really this unpopular? I'm one of two omnitell players at my LGS.

>Question for the thread
You are playing against miracles, on the draw in game 3. They lead with tundra and pass to you.

What 8 card hand+draw do you dream of having from your current deck?

Two chancellors in opener, lotus petal, land, dark ritual, seize, entomb, exhume

FoW, Top, Counter balance, strand, strand, brainstorm , surgical extraction, ponder

Just about anything with cloudposts I guess. Maybe a needle to name top or somthing?
cloudpost,cloudpost, forest, expedition, forest, prime time, and maybe another prime time/land/greensun. So long as I dont open like shit, its pretty much a free win for me.

LED LED land, breakthrough, faithless, ggt ggt cabal therapy

Swamp, ritual, ritual, doomsday, LED, probe, duress, duress

Hi fa/tg/uys. Long time Casual/Standard player. I'm sick of the speed at which sets rotate, the rapid decay of card value, and overall, the game has been getting stale for me.

I'm considering building Charbelcher since it's one of the cheapest Legacy decks. Is it worth the time/money? Is a set of Lion's Eye Diamonds worth the investment? Are there other Legacy decks I could build easily with a set of LEDs? Worth it or nah?

Pic related

Greetings standardbro

Charbelcher is one of the cheapest decks but it does fold to any dedicated hate. Still fun though.

As far as LED is concerned, it's used in pretty much any combo deck in the format - all manners or storm, dredge, and I think reanimator plays it as well.

If you're willing to go into legacy and eventually move to other similar decks, LEDs are worth the $500 investment.

>and I think reanimator plays it as well
Nope.

If you're interested in playing combo decks, a set of LED's is a must. They'll allow you to build out ANT, TES, Doomsday, or various Painter builds later. They're reserve list, so barring unprecedented shenanigans, they're not going to be reprinted any time soon. You can get by without original dual lands in a storm deck, but there's no replacing LED's effect.

Forgot image.

Thanks for the input.

>dedicated hate

Could you be more specific? Are there more common decks that shut it down pre-sideboard?

I'm not familiar with the popular decks or any sort of meta I might run into.

PIthing Needle/Null Rod for Charbelcher, cheap permission, sweepers for goblin tokens.

The most common is Force of Will on Charbelcher or, if they're smart, the last ritual that lets you get to 4 mana. It is a reality of playing the deck that you often cannot beat FoW.

Quite a few combo decks are like this.

Does Burning Wish for either Shattering Spree or Red Elemental Blast in the SB not help my odds much in these matchups?

Honestly, the robust Wish package is what lead me to believe that this is a somewhat resilient combo deck.

Burning Wish helps, but the deck often doesn't have the extra mana to be able to Wish for protection and then cast a win condition. Burning Wish should usually get FoW'd as well.

That's true, but Belcher is the least likely to be able to rebuild afterwards.

I'm not contesting that Belcher isn't a tier 1 deck, but in my research, I've seen it bounce back from hate, albeit anecdotally.

Footage from a 2013 Legacy Tourney:
youtu.be/QLK4UYqk8s0

(In case you don't want to listen to Patrick Chapin's cringey commentary):
>Game 1
>Belcher destroyed
>Bounce back from no hand and no Belcher
>Build up 7 mana
>Belcher 2 electric boogaloo
>Flip deck for game.

Granted, Perry doesn't have to play around counterspells in this match.

From a guy who grew up with Mana Leak and Rune Snag: How shitty is playing against/around things like FoW and CounterTop?

>How shitty is playing against/around things like FoW and CounterTop?
You can't (in game 1 at least) so you don't. You can once in a blue moon go off after t2 counterbalance if your starting ritual costs 2 and your opponent doesn't flip accordingly.

That was an impressive game, but if his opponent had been on a deck with counterspells, I don't think he ever has a chance.

Belcher does best in a metagame full of non-blue fair decks. If that's what you're walking into, Belcher will do great.

Empty the Warrens goes a long way towards beating force of will decks. If they counter the wrong thing they just add to your storm count, and force can only hit 1 Empty copy. Even so, a lot of Belcher's sideboard space is dedicated to beating blue, which is telling. But the deck is fun and cheap and a good gateway to legacy.

reminder that the Legacy meta is extremely stagnated and even Modern is better for brews.

I play 12post and burn. Burn i dont really care, counter a burn spell, i have like 20 more down the pipe. Similarly with 12post aside from crop rotation. Crop rotation suck balls when you have it counterd, just cause you have to sac the land as part of the cost. But its just somthing that comes with the format. If they have it, they have it, if they dont they dont. I mean, if they are keeping 2 cards back in their hand and keeping mana back ect,ect you can try and get an idea off that.

I play with a few guys who run ~$700+ decks and I can beat them with my hexproof aura deck 40/60 of the time.

I want a cheapish deck that can beat these money decks and piss them off. AKA a denial deck or super mill deck.

Painter decks look pretty saucy for super mill.

I'd rather have a healthy meta that hasn't shifted much in the past 10 months than have to shell out $1000 for a deck that won't be playable in 2 weeks.

Modern is better for brews because good cards in standad can be good in modern but in legacy the power level is too steep/ too niche

Swamp, Ritual, Entomb, Exhume, Unmask, Thoughtseize, Chancellor.

Unban Necropotence.

>Gitaxian Probe banned

The only combo decks that fold to force of will are the turn 1 gimmick decks like oops, belcher, and si. Almost all other combo decks have interaction/ways to play around it. Otherwise there wouldn't be any combo decks, because more than half the field has forces.

Not sure if this belongs in the modern threads or this one so if I'm breaking rules I apologize:

Am I correct in assuming Foundry Inspector's ability does not work with Prototype Portal's ability? Also how would something like Metalwork Colossus work with Portal's ability? Would the reduction in cost still apply? I've been toying with an old artifact deck and I was wondering about these two specific instances.
Note: this deck is for casual play only (and I really didn't want to make a 6th mtg thread..) so sorry again if I've ignored any banlists/rulings.

Force and Pals are generally terrible news for combo of every stripe—not just Poops and Charb—and there's not really any way around that pre-board.

With that said, it's infinitely more beatable than, say, hatebears. I've fought through countermagic with Belcher, AnT, All Spells, and (today) Reanimator. It's not a universal knockout. Breaking through takes practice and luck, though.

Speaking of Reanimator, 3–1 today on my maiden voyage with the deck. Even after having to throw my sideboard together this morning because I had a power outage in the midst of my tinkering last night. 10/10; will play again.

Standard Guy, LEDs are definitely worth it. I started playing Legacy on Oops, and getting the sideboard LEDs was my first step to Belcher, Dredge, Storm (both kinds), and Reanimator. I haven't looked back.

Foundry Inspector does not reduce the cost of Prototype Portals activated ability, yes.

Prototype Portals ability will cost 11 to produce a titan. Metalwork Colossus' ability reduces the cost to CAST it but does not change the cmc.

>Prototype Portal and Foundry Inspector
You're correct in thinking that it doesn't reduce cost, this is because Portals ability is X, Tap: Cast for free. Portal only cares about the CMC of the card, so Colossus' cost reduction ability would also not apply. There's usually an Ask a Judge thread where gA answers questions, but this is as good a place to ask as any.
I would like to think Legacy players have above average understandings of the rules, but you wouldn't believe the number of times I've had to explain to my opponent why they can't cast Unmask for it's alt cost through a Trinisphere without paying.

Hello!

I'm no judge, but as far as I know, here's the deal:
—Prototype Portal checks "converted mana cost," not "what you pay to cast a spell." "CMC" is what's listed at the top right of a card, with the only variation being that spells with {X} in their costs have a CMC equal to X plus whatever else is part of the cost (e.g., Logic Knot for X=4 has CMC 6 while it's being cast, but CMC 2 when it's in your hand/graveyard/library). Note that tokens and cards with no listed mana cost (Living End) have CMC=0. So the {X} in Prototype Portal's ability doesn't change.
—Metalwork Colossus's cost takes both reductions (number of artifacts AND Foundry Inspector's reduction), but Colossus's cost can be reduced only to zero.

Anyone and everyone, correct me if I'm wrong!

Whoops! Misread your second question.

Tezzerator Guy and user beat me to it, but yeah, Portal's ability will still cost 11 for the Colossus regardless of the number of artifacts you control.

Thanks guys, I had a feeling that was the case for the colossus. I've seen the ask a judge threads before and was surprised one wasn't up for once.

Any ideas for fun stuff to do with prototype portal? The deck I have it in focuses on using splicers and unwinding clock/pristine talisman(with portal) to get a ton of mana/life. It's slow sometimes but nobody I play with really runs artifact destruction.

Try imprinting Spine of Ish Sah. Or Tangle Wire. Don't forget to activate portal and make a new copy of table wire or your upkeep before you resolve the tangle wire trigger(s). Then just keep making Tangle Wires. Forever.

Maybe throw an unwinding clock in there and make more tangle wires off turn.

Like user said, you can't go wrong making stax artifacts. Unwinding Clock would be good, tap the artifact you made + another to untap Portal and go again.

Flash in a Shimmer Myr and then a black vise to get the pain train rolling.

Nice, I kinda like those two.
Already have unwinding clocks in there. As I said before the main thing I portal is pristine talisman and sometimes a couple of my golem creatures.

Smokestack my son.

Dang that's nasty. 6 bucks for one though, seems like a lot.

I once watched someone win by landing Sundial of the Infinite and Smokestack, then just sitting back and skipping turns with a single counter on the Stack.

His opponent (a kid; I felt a little bad) just sat there for about ten turns with no permanents, discarding to hand-size every turn, until the spectators pointed out that things were going nowhere fast.

In short, if I were to play a prison deck, I think Stax would be the way forward. Fucking Eldrazi and their KNazis...