MTG Frontier General

I welcome an alternative to EDH, Modern and Standard.

Banning fetches does alot of things to even shit out.
From delve mechanics (dig, cruise,baby jace, ect).
To lol 4c gud stuf.
I'm down to keep khan's in as long as fetches are banned. If that's an issue then start at origins and wait 2 more years.
Also Frontier evo when?

Sorry, I was thinking more about Elves being boring when being shoehorned into standard as a shitty trap option of a deck.
Like they had Joraga Warcaller and Elvish Archdruid together in the same standard iirc when Nissa was around, and on paper there should have been the makings of a competitive deck but it just didn't cut it.
If they continued Nissa to be all about Elf tribal, they'd have to bring her in with a bunch of linear Elf cards that again aren't enough to make a worthwhile deck. Elf tribal, and tribal in general, is much better with a very large card pool like Modern.
The way she is now, they can feature her on a chunk of general support cards like ramp/lifegain and not bother with tribal unless they're going to give it a decent effort like they do in Innistrad.

Garruk is as close as we've got, but he's all tainted by Black though it's reasonable in his case. They've done well recently in giving Black protagonists, Mono Green villainy would be nice to see, especially in planeswalker form.
Vorinclex from New Phyrexia is the closest we've got right now, but something standalone would be cool.

Frontier sans fetches is on a lot of people's minds.
They add time to games and are pretty op. Heck, Channel Fireball's top8 on dual cycles placed them 1st with original duals 2nd.
It would be nice if we could have one major nonrotating format that didn't have fetches.
It would also probably preserve a lot of appeal for Modern.

There is some nice stuff in Khans block, but is it worth it if it means starting a format with a banlist?
-Fetches
-Collected Company
-Delve stuff (including 2 legacy banned cards)
It feels like we might be getting off on the wrong foot.

Might have the right idea about starting at Origins and waiting a while.
It could be that from now on Wizards only prints fetches in Masters sets and keeps Standard and therefore Frontier clean of them.

Doesn't Vorniclex basically just beat his dick and hang around in the Tangle? He's a Phyrexian, but he's the least villainous Praetor except Urabrask isn't he?

I would unironically get on board Frontier if it meant a rigid competitive format like Modern without fetches. Every fucking format outside of Pauper you see people running them, at least in my local city's meta. Legacy, Vintage, Modern of course, EDH, all full of Spikes here. It gets annoying watching them shuffle over and over again.

I mean yeah I have fetches too, but I don't have enough to put them in literally every deck I play. I've got over 30 of the damn things, more than half multicolor, and only five of them have fetches just to keep up with the competitive Modern players I know. In my group of close friends at least I get to play Legacy and proxied Vintage with fetches banned as a house rule, but it'd be nice to get to play something interesting other than Modern when I go to an LGS. Really wish they would allow proxies back.

To anyone curious, I play Jund, Bant Eldrazi, Affinity, RG Tron (Control :^), and Grixis Control in Modern.

>There is some nice stuff in Khans block, but is it worth it if it means starting a format with a banlist?

I would like there to be at least one fucking format where we can use stuff like Dig Through Time. Just banning the fetches may be enough to tone down the other cards that would normally get banned.

Yeah, but the most we've got for a green-style villain anyway

>Building decks without fetchlands despite having them
I do this too. I'll say there's actually enough of a land pool in Modern that you don't have to jam fetchlands into every damn deck. And some decks take advantage of them better than others. Jeskai control, for instance, I've found you can build easily enough without relying on fetches.

Fetchlands aren't the be-all, end-all, but enough people think so and they have enough presence in top tier decks to reinforce that mentality.
Manabases reliant on fetches are also pretty easy to build and the difference between a refined fetch-heavy manabase and one that isn't is slight until you get to later rounds of a tournament. We could not have fetches and force more people in general to be more creative.

>It gets annoying watching them shuffle over and over again.
So much this. It's pretty tedious, time-consuming and lots of people have shitty old, hardened, sticky, crusty sleeves that stick when you try to shuffle their deck after the 4th eot fetchland that game.
It's not just silly for enfranchised players to endure, but it makes for stagnation during live event coverage too. So. Much. Shuffling.

blah blah Paradox Engine and stuff...

How would you design a land destruction land for frontier?

Saw this at a walmart. Can someone who plays mtg translate this? To me it doesn't make any sort of sense

Whuh? Whenever it attacks you can make opponents puny thing die in front of it. Shouldn't be any confusion if you know how attacking and blocking works in mtg.

>Shouldn't be any confusion if you know how attacking and blocking works in mtg.
Presumably he doesn't.

In Magic, (generally) can't attack specific creatures like you can in other games. You just attack, and your opponent chooses which creatures they want to block with, or just takes the damage. This card let's you force an opponents creature to block, so you can beatup a glass-cannon or mana-dork.

There was an old, old article (Like Onslaught era) where Wotc talked about how mono green is the hardest set to make major antagonist from. Because green is chaotic and often moralless, but it's also innocent and instinctual, so it's often hard to justify hate against them as they're just doing what they are meant to do.

...

Pretty much, land destruction should require more resources.

Then don't make it something to hate. Turn into a "natural disaster" scenario. This massive mono-green beast has to, for example, run the whole plane all the time to keep the green mana in the plane flowing, even if that means he'll trample over any settlements in its way.

The dilemma would come from how to let the green beast keep doing its work wohile protecting the himan settlements.

That card saw no play back in Standard even when Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx was in every deck, and Maze's End decks were a thing.

1 - I'd start from Magic Origins. WotC clearly wanted to make Origins a new staring point and if someone is trying to start a new format, that should be a good start. Tarkir has tons of good stuff, yes, but the BS it brought to the modern format is too much. I'd be willing to give up on the good stuff in it to keep the shit away.

2 - Delirium cards. Tarmogoyf was the prototype delirium card, kind of, and it shows how interesting and versatile the delirum effect can be. Love it to bits and I'd love to see it getting more love.

3 - Not right now, since there are still plenty of Frontier cards in Standard, but maybe in 1-2 years, when their Zendikar/Shadows over Innstrad decks get pushed out of standard.

4 - Sure

5 - I don't. I'm new to the game and I already feel Modern is too overwhelming for me to get into it. I enjoyed the hell our of the Vancouver GP, but the deck prices and rares cards turned me off from trying to make any modern deck above casual level.

6 - Neither, Nissa is a boring green character. Bring Garruk back and then we can talk.

7 - I don't know, it would depend on how WotC doesn't fuck with the future blocks. I found Kaladesh a really boring block overall, despite liking the set itself. Amonkhet seems to be an interesting comeback to Theros, sort of.

Decrease the mana cost, ask for another resource besides life to trigger it, etc.

The point is, it should be more of an effort to destroy enemy lands.

Make it cheaper to destroy non-basic lands, but make destroying basic lands much mroe costly.

>Where should the format start?
All new bordered cards including reprints and special prints so long as they are in a new border.

Frontier will only succeed if it rotates.

It has a 12 year cardpool at it's maximum. Every 4 years, the earliest 4 years of cards are cut out.

Eh sure.

But it should be tighter, after the 12 years period, when a new block is released, the oldest one is cut out.

No. Part of the problem with standard is that it rotates too often. The problem with Modern is that it never rotates.

So, start the format with 12 years of cards. If we start now, that gives us Kamigawa Block and up. Then, some period from now (I would suggest at least 2 years from now), remove the earliest sets up to the new period. So Starting at Kamigawa block, and with 2 years of sets removed, the new starting point would be Timespiral and up.

Nah, that's dumb. The whole point of Frontier is to go with the new card designs and for the newer players that can't/won't get into modern/legacy/vintage.

IF we start from tarkir/Origins, we'll have to wait 7-8 more years to even get to 12 years worth of cards.

You are talking about a whole other format, since kamigawa isn't even discussed in Frontier.

That's dumb as hell and doesn't even account for the change in design philosophy that was Origins onwards. Which is the major argument for the format existing. The disparity in Modern and Standard powerlevels necessitates a new format because newer cards simply can't compete.

Newer cards compete all the time in modern. Eldrazi Winter was the result of increased power levels since Modern's formation. You clearly don't have any perspective or idea of what you're talking about.

Of course I'm talking about a whole different format, because the way Frontier is currently set up, it will be doomed to failure. The only reason Frontier is considered a brewer's paradise is because nobody of any importance is brewing in it. The only reason Frontier is cheaper than modern is because nobody is playing it. If Frontier replaces modern, it will have all the same problems modern has within a year of its being made official.

Rotation is what is essential to fixing modern's issues, not just falling for a scam format like Tiny Leaders.

Cool, then open your own thread for your own format. We are discussing Frontier here, fucking idiot.

>Replacing modern

Who even said that? Nobody is saying Frontier is replacing Modern, you mongoloid.

You're discussing what frontier should be. I'm telling you. Also not an argument.

If you want it to not be a meme that nobody plays like tiny leaders, you have to replace modern. If it doesn't, it will be dead in a year, and your cards will be even more worthless than they were before frontier.

>>Where should the format start? M15 (Including Khans block) or Magic Origins?
ORI
>>Favorite cards from the standard formats you would love to hang onto playing in an eternal format?
Tireless Tracker
Traverse the Ulvenwald
>>Would you encourage poorfag/filthy casual friends to get into Frontier?
No
>>Would you still play Standard?
Yes
>>Would you still play Modern?
Yes
>>Old Hitler Nissa or New Fluttershy Nissa?
Doesn't matter as long as the cards were good.
>>If Frontier was made official tomorrow at the starting point of your choice, what would the format look/feel like to you in 3 years? 5 years?
Hopefully good and stronger than standard but not oppressive. M15 has some good bullets like Rec Sage and Tormod's Crypt but there are so many things in KTK block I'm not interested in playing against for years to come.

Who cares about card value? This format is for newer players because all the cards should be easy the get. No super weird, low print cards since Tarkir/Origins.

No, we are discussing a CUT-OFF point for a format which already had as a clear, if a bit arbitrary, aspect from which to start, the new card design.

If it gets around to make new players care more about the game without having to deal with over 10 years of cards libraries nor super fast standard rotation, that's the objective accomplished right there

>If it gets around to make new players care more about the game without having to deal with over 10 years of cards libraries nor super fast standard rotation, that's the objective accomplished right there

>wants to not deal with 10 years of card libraries
>doesn't want rotation

You are literally retarded.

There has to be something for Noose "Not Wild Mongrel" Constrictor, right?

What?

Dude, do you know how to read? I did say rotation was fine, not SUPER FAST rotation.

You know, where there's only 3 blocks to work with between each rotation. That's what I mean by "super fast".

I'd be fine with rotations, but not now.

You are either literally illiterate, a troll or the actual retarded in this conversation.

I never argued for super fast rotation you moron. You are confirmed retarded.

But then again, we already knew that didn't we? You fell for the frontier meme.

>Like they had Joraga Warcaller and Elvish Archdruid together in the same standard iirc when Nissa was around, and on paper there should have been the makings of a competitive deck but it just didn't cut it.

Elves actually was a competitive deck during original Zendikar for a short while and was still a solid tier 2 deck at the time.

Kaboom Land

Land

Add 1 to your Mana Pool

T: Sacrifice Kaboom land. Destroy target nonbasic land, activate this ability only if your opponent controls two or more non-basic lands.

>Favorite cards from the standard formats you would love to hang onto playing in an eternal format?
Counterspell, lightning Bolt, Swords to plowshares

>Shit dead format
Wew lad

So is this just the official coco deck only thread?

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/scissors-4/

>I vote we start at M15 and not ban fetches.....

But then my 5c decks with siege rhino, crackling doom and bring to light don't work

I have to agree overall about Fetches. If they weren't Rare and they didn't randomly decide when they would slap the dual land type on certain lands and not others it wouldn't be so bad but their necessity to make most decks function... I'd rather Frontier start at Origins just to avoid the whole mess of having to have that hearty of a ban list right out of the gate.

He put spikes on my waifu's ass.
He's as twisted as they come.

I'd be lying if i said i didn't care about that cause i never have all the fecthlands i need, but what annoys me the most is the constant shuffling and time wasting they create.

It's not hard to imagine a destructive green force destroying some sort of society encroaching on it. Wizards is just fucking retarded

You waifu a shit.
As the format you play

At least my format exists.
I don't own Atraxa though i just wanted to make that joke

I have a fair deal of the Fetches and if Frontier becomes a thing around here and they get included I'll throw down and buy the rest.

But yeah, all the constant shuffling sucks.

>I can't shuffle a deck on 5 seconds
Kys

But that's just not as interesting as a sapient villain.

When both decks start rocking 8 or more Fetches it can start to become fucking tedious as shit.

>Where should the format start? M15 (Including Khans block) or Magic Origins?
Leave out Khans.
>Favorite cards from the standard formats you would love to hang onto playing in an eternal format?
Vampire Cutthroat.
>Would you encourage poorfag/filthy casual friends to get into Frontier?
Why would I want my friends to play a meme format?
>Would you still play Standard?
Yes.
>Would you still play Modern?
Yes, even though WotC hates it.
>Old Hitler Nissa or New Fluttershy Nissa?
Modern moe-blob Nissa, but with a realistic dark side and actual character depth.
>If Frontier was made official tomorrow at the starting point of your choice, what would the format look/feel like to you in 3 years? 5 years?
Dead.

>tfw saw an area a deck at target today
>tfw it was Saran-wrapped/plastic sealed unlike all the other prebuilts on sale
>tfw it had a minor rip at the front that could have just been legit packaging damage but was probably from some dickhead swapping out the deck with a land brick
>tfw too pussy to buy it and see if it was legit

If you actually wanted it, you'd have bought it and simply opened it right there to check

When did Surgical Extraction get so expensive? I got that shit for three bucks!

>spend $35 to get a brick of land
>have to return it but there's almost no chance I'd get my money back

>Buy deck, open it, it's a brick of land
>"Hey the product isn't here"
>TOO BAD LOL! TROLLED!
Really?
Anyway i bought a different commander deck way back and with that packaging you can't really change it without opening or tearing everything up.

I would of opened it and if it was legit bought it. I would only do this in stores like target or walmart of course.

There might be if wizards didn't shit the bed with madness this last set. I wouldn't even care that some cards cost more to madness if they made it interesting.

yes I'm mad, I started in m14 and got hyped to play with madness after seeing all the cool ones they did in time spiral.

4x Hardened Scales
4x Winding Constrictor
4x Endless One
4x Walking Ballista
4x Hangarback Walker
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Dromoka's Command
2x Verdurous Gearhulk
2x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar

8scales builds itself so easily holy shit. The last 4 slots are some combination of Avatar of the Resolute/Narnam Renegade/Abzan Charm/Tracker/More Nissas or Gearhulks.

ballista was a mistake

BAN FETCHES.

If I want "shuffle deck every turn" format I would play modern.

i think frontier could have a tectonic edge reprint and it wouldn't be too powerful. having to wait until they have at least 4 lands keeps you from flat out mana screwing them more often than not, and makes sure each player has an "early game"

oh man my dick is ready.

It completely depends on how you tell the story. Many interesting stories are about how people survive due to some being always around the corner, ready to deal with their corpses.

Nausicaa, Planescape and the lady of pain, Discworld, to a certain extent, the Eldrazi, etc.

>If I want "shuffle deck every turn" format I would play yugioh.
I actually say this everytime I play two color or more decks.

missing tracker and rishkar
mystic is bad in scaly snek dek
endless one over servant?
whats your manabase?

Dead format, dead thread.

Avalanche Tusker

I vote we start from KTK and ban fetches from the get-go. Fetches make for a way too degenerate manabase, and there's too much things still in M15 that don't jive with WotC's modern design philosophy, e.g. something like Elvish Mystic.

Can a format be dead if it was never alive in the first place?

>ban fetches

You're all a bunch of pussies. Fetches are fine and if you can't thoroughly shuffle your deck in under a minute, then git gud.

You're right, we shouldn't ban fetches from Frontier

Let's ban fetches from every actual format instead, it will be more useful for the health of MtG

delicious fron-tears

>go to frontier
>maybe it'll actually be interesting
>people complaining about fetches and BALLISTA[/spoilers]

behave, children

It's not about the shuffling. At least, not for me; I can shuffle just fine, but in a format without strong enough land hate I think fetches promote too colour-heavy strats.

>Eldrazi Winter was the result of increased power levels since Modern's formation.
No it wasn't, you idiot. It happened because of broken lands that were already in Modern's cardpool. The Eldrazi creatures are just over-costed beaters on their own.

This is a containment format for scrubs that really should get back to Hearthstone.

More like for those who miss extended.

>you could totally run the eldrazi decks before wizards printed the eldrazi creature cards that made them so efficient guys

Frontier players are retarded.