Do you prefer simple plots or complex ones? Which one is better?

Do you prefer simple plots or complex ones? Which one is better?

Simple plots with complex characters.

It depends on the players.

With good players, complex plots are great, as players can easily get a lot of content from simple. But even simple plots can have complex approaches, so you don't exactly need to fabricate complexity at all times. Trust your players a bit, add lots of small hints, let them take unusual approaches to situations, and you'll get good shit.

With players who just want to murderhobo, you don't want to put your effort in to the complexity of the plot because they'll just murderhobo along and not scratch the surface. With them, interesting and cinematic set pieces are what pays off.

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Simple plots expanded with sidequests.

I have never seen a complex plot that was not an illogical mess and I suspect that they don't exist.

Complex plots with simple characters are pretty good too.

I'm gonna go with on this.

Plots...?

I make shit up as I go along and merely claim that I had a plan all along.

That's how most people known for complex plans do it, too.

Be aware: Complex is not the same as complicated.

Simple. Sometimes people get it into their heads that complex plots are for more intelligent people, or for more story-intensive games, and I would argue that they are dead wrong.

A complex plot becomes convoluted and its momentum gets diffused. People lose track of what is going on, who is doing what, and for what reasons. For a story teller, the inability of your audience to follow the plot is the worst sort failure. Worse, I would argue that complex plots are usually masks for bad plots. If you layer on enough plot maybe it will seem intelligent - is the thinking. I've read and seen many works where when you sit back and properly digest what was going on, the facade of depth is lost. You're just left with a mess of a narrative that the author couldn't focus upon.

A simple plot told well will naturally develop enough nuance on its own. Even a discussion between two people can have many layers of nuance given their history, the environment, the tone, and so on. Giving the reader or participant the freedom to ponder these details adds a richness to the narrative that the author or GM never could.

All plots are complicated once they leave the plotter's head and enter the field.

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What said.
I also like stories and plots that don't take themselves seriously.

Define "complex". Because in my eyes, complexity is simply depth. You can tell a certain story on a superficial level, or take that very same story to a deeper level. What isn't complexity, unlike what a lot of people believe, is making the story convoluted and way too multi-faceted for its own good.

I personally believe (after having made some blunders myself) that a good story (for a TTRPG at least) can be summarized in one sentence. I don't care if it's a run-on sentence with comma's, but it's one sentence. Something like "Orc chieftain unites all orc tribes and overruns the continent, he may or may not be manipulated by dark forces". Boom, done. You can add layers of complexity by having a lot of political intrigue, some humans actually siding with the orcs (because the chieftain, more out of convenience than empathy, smashes the human nobility which means the reigns on the human peasants are loosened) but in the end it's the same single-sentence story.

Ironically, this point proves my point. It said the exact same thing I said without all the pompous explanations. What took me two paragraphs to explain, he explained in 9 words.

>>hurr durr all this complex existential crisis from just buying a carton of milk

No. Complex plots with simple chatacters is better. What is the averaage joe doing during a civil war for example.

Complex if they make sense and have a pay off.

Complex means the author took time to create something. Making sense and pay off means they care about you.

Pick one:

>Complex setting.
>Complex characters.
>Complex plot.

I love reading and watching complex plots, and prefer playing simple ones.

Whether GM, character, or player, there's always some point of failure that fucks things up when your group ends up in something more complicated than 'kill/steal/save x'.

lets be honest

when done absolutely perfectly the tier list would be as follows
Complex Plot, Complex Characters
Complex Plot, Simple Characters
Simple Plot, Complex Characters
Simple Plot, Simple Characters

however

nothing ever goes perfectly
somone always drops the ball and the complexity of the story or one of the characters starts to break immersion or ruin the story in some way and things don't turn into epic stories but rather devolve into nitpicky bullshit

therefore a more realistic tier list looks like
(Complex Plot, Simple Characters) = (Simple Plot, Complex Characters)
Simple Plot, Simple Characters
Complex Plot, Complex Characters

Both are pretty decent, just depends on what you want at any given time

why just one?

My players can hardly handle simple puzzles. They wouldn't handle a complex plot well unless led by the nose from clue to clue.

That being said, I personally enjoy making simple plots and plans, and like watching complex plots play out, even if I'm not great at figuring them out

The way I see it, character complexity depends on lethality of the game - spending better part of a weekend on something that gets trashed 30 minutes into the game is just demotivating.

but complex characters almost always make complex plots

There's not enough time to show everything.

A shit plot with good characters will at least be decent. A good plot with shit characters will still be shit as I won't care about what's happening.

Organic plot.

Simple but deep, like a well crafted and pointy-knife.

knives are deep?

I don't know, its not like characters develop in a vacuum. If you're doing it right the characters should imply a great deal about the setting.

I know its a little ridiculous to bring up a masterpiece, but the first 20 pages of Neuromancer manage to successfully reveal a complex plot, setting, and character.

How does Simple/complex Themes affect the ranking?