Our wizard has been using the metamagic feats in a vastly overpowered way for almost one year, using all the powerups (applying Extend Spell to inmediate spells, or Empower Spell to all spells) at 0 cost. The DM never realized that and just went along, trusting the player.
The DM just realised he has been rused the whole time and spoke to me about it. What should the DM do to him?
We have been playing >Pathfinder but that's another problem we will deal once the campaign finishes.
Nothing. Its the DMs job to understand the ruleset of the game he is DMing, the fault lies with him.
It's the players job not to fucking cheat, tho
Have the GM RTFM, for one, and also track the spell usage of the character since, if i'm understanding this correctly, the PC is basically lying about his spell slots. Expose him in front of the party.
Create a narrative reason for nerfing the wizard down to his appropriate power level (e.g. a nymph curses him).
Kick him out. He's already playing a wizard in Pathfinder, so he's ACTIVELY trying to ruin the fun for everybody else in order to get the spotlight.
What is RTFM?
I feel like that's kinda cheap.
The thing is that he's using spells way above his level due to not bothering reading the feats or just blantant lying. At this point, we don't know.
Are we sure the player isn't just ignorant of how metamagic works? Are you sure it was intentional cheating? Mishandling abilities through ignorance for a full year is still a major problem, but it isn't the same can of worms as intentionally deceiving the GM for a year.
For almost a fucking year? Everyone is to blame here. At this point the wizard needs to own up to cheating and everyone else needs to read the damn book. You don't just not understand something like that for a year.
We don't know. It could be anything.
Ask your wizard to read out the actual effects of metamagic one time, just out of curiosity without being all inquisitive. If he lies to cover his ass, kick. If he goes oh fuck, my bad, then remonstrate him and your DM to RTFM READ THE FUCKING MANUAL, but then play on.
OP here. I'm the player. So I have this weird dilemma
-on one point, I feel like I'm "betraying" the party if I actively search how to undermine one of the members power. That's kinda the GM's job and not actully my responsability
-on other hand, he's cheating, plain and simple
The GM should just talk to him. Seriously, communication helps. If it was a simple misunderstanding, clear it up. If it was willful cheating, he should probably be given the boot.
Heck, I'd recommend reading up on rules for every type of character simply to understand the world better, and help with making later characters.
see If he acknowledges wrongdoing and attempts to improve, he's not beyond saving. If he lies, then he's actively gaming a system and costing the party the reason of the game-collaborative fun
My group has days where we musical chairs our positions, typically after a big story arc or moment, and we figure out what each of us has going on, and the person in the DM chair has us play out little, non story-impactful scenarios.
It's a good way for everyone to feel more involved with each other, and promotes creative problem solving down the road, since you all are more familiar with the others abilities.
And it lets the DM play a bit, and everyone gets some DM practice in for whatever we do next.
So much fucking this
He played a fucking jizzard in fucking shitseeker, so presumption of innocence doesn't really applies.
The player IS guilty either way. He actively overshadowed other players, abusing his power, AND he either didn't read the rules or he was cheating.
The solution is simple. Talk to the player, preferably in front of everyone else. Demand an explanation. Either make it clear that one more slip and he's out, or boot him immediately.
An acronym for "Read the Fucking Manual".
>t.cheater
Have you never heard of integrity? How sad does one have to be in life to cheat at table top make believe?
Not even sad, just bitter, smug and an asshole in general. Even people with crippling depression aren't that desperate.
Are you sure the player is cheating?
d20pfsrd.com
Sacred Geometry exists and can be taken multiple times!
Implying implications.
The DM just talks with the player and corrects the issue. Stop treating D&D like some type of competitive sport. Its meant to be an enjoyable game with friends.
what the FUCK is this
Why don't you, like, talk with him about it?
Really makes you think
Simple, have the DM either talk with the whole group or the individual player.
He can say something like "Hey, so I was reading up some rules and apparently you aren't able to use metamagic feats in the ways that we have been using it."
The game isn't a competition, so stop treating it like one.
>d20pfsrd.com
>Roll some dice and do some math for a couple of minutes while everyone waits to see if your spell succeeds or not
Quality game writing here.
Just kick him.
Plain and simple.
This is either the most horrible or the most awesome feat ever. Depends on how you look at it.
>couple of minutes
To be fair, it's not that complicated. Takes about ten seconds tops, if you practice beforehand.
But yeah, it's shit.
>Cast Fireball
>Play a numbers round of fucking countdown
I'm on board with this.
Also, kick him in the head. Where's your magic now
If you practice, you'll always hit it.
The first level it makes sense to get it is 6th, with 9 dice it will take extreme bad luck not to.
Still an incredibly shitty mechanic.
It's like having a "solve a quadratic equation on paper in under 1 minute and gain +5 damage on your next melee attack!" mechanic.
WHY?
You have your in-game stats, advantage and disadvantage, and a randomizer in form of a die roll. Adding a mechanic that exists purely outside the gameworld is stupid and cringy, just think of all the "Pantomime riding a horse" and "Release a loud battlecry" shit from Warhammer.
It's also expected for the players to be upfront and honest about what is on their sheet for a reason, cocksmoker.
Roll d3:
1) House rule it.
2) Kick him.
3) Continue using the proper mechanics.
>WHY?
Why not? You can't exactly make PF any worse than it already is.
Did he do it on purpose or out of ignorance? If they were both being dumb then you can fix it easily. Otherwise you'll have issues.
>being so unstable you have to project AND samefag
Note that the feat that's supposed to improve this (because obviously, it wasn't likely enough that you succeed) actually makes your chances worse.
>RTFM
Ironically, all the shit the DM needs to know is in the players handbook not the DMG.
I had similar shit going on there's many ways to deal with this.
Restore the balance - Throw high power trinkets and shit at the group that are useful to everyone but the problem wizard until he no longer shines at all.
Punish the player - Make up some bullshit curse that cannot be easily removed and put it on the wizard, may seem dickish but you're the DM you can do whatever you want.
Change the meta - I had a problem with the wizard one of my groups powergaming and using all the cheese he could, I was fine with it but the rest of the group found it disheartening. So I threw in fingulfin and every other anti magic piece of shit in for a few sessions so the non mages could feel strong for a few sessions.
To my mind there is a difference between a cheater who is helping the party vs a cheater who is just being a vainglorious asshole vs a cheater in a game where interparty conflict is expected.
Like manslaughter, 2nd and First degeree murder. The appropriate responses are then also different.
If the dude is a good person and solid team player, then his crime is somewhat mitigated. In that case the GM should tell him to knock it the fuck off in private, and ask him to place his preped spells on an index card so someone else can double check him for a probationary period.
If he's an ass who whips slaps his magical dick down on the table to get the other players to go along with his plans, then you confont him at the table. Shrivel up his ego a bit then move on to probationary period as described above. Unless he ptiches a massive fit, in witch case you punt him then and there.
And if you're playing a game where the players can end up working at cross purposes (multi-clan L5R, Vampire) then you just toss him out. Cheating in those kinds of games is just to make sure he'll win if players ever end up tossing dice at one another.
I don't even play 3.pf and this makes me MAD.
It's frequently banned, for being kind of a lose-lose. There's a point at which the player is guaranteed to be able to do it, which means it'll just take time while the other players are sitting there watching him stare at a bunch of numbers. Then when he's done he gets to ignore the single greatest restriction for using metamagic. So it manages to be simultaneously boring AND game-breaking.
Had a GM that allowed it on the conditions that: 1) the player could ONLY use it to apply the 2 feats that it came with, not their other metamagic feats, and 2) he had a time limit of 30 seconds.
Just have a word with the DM, and let him deal with it. At worst all enemy spellcasters have heightened maximised spells to throw at the party.
Usual solution best solution. Just talk to each other.
>Hey I checked the rules. I've been unintentionally letting you get away with some OP stuff, and you've been taking advantage of it. I'm gonna hold you to the rules now k?
>WTF FUCK YOU THAT'S HOW WE'VE BEEN DOING IT
Out s/he goes.
>Oh okay
Problem solved.
Pathfinder is too complicated. He probably Just made a mistake.
If it was intentional kick him, you don't want that kind of player at your table. If it was unintentionally talk to him and find a way to explain the nerf in game.
>The DM just realised he has been rused the whole time and spoke to me about it.
I'm a little confused here.
Why did your DM speak to you about it, instead of the correct player?
Obviously you should all gangrape the offending player, I find that when it comes to discipline getting the whole team involved is far more effective than a few words alone, the Romans used decimation making the squad beat there friends to death so this style of discipline has been proven to work over many years.
...
Was he from Draconia?
>d20pfsrd.com
Fuck whoever thought of that bullshit
>Veeky Forums a player is cheating
>our dm just found out
>what do we do
Tell him he need wot read his spells because that's not how it work and tell him I knock it off or else there will be a comet that some how stiles his character only?
Like what the hell did you want from us? He is cheating tell him to stop, grow a spine fuck dude.
If I were DM-ing I would turn that into a plot point that super fucks the wizard for "unwittingly" abusing the laws of magic and reality, probably sending something big and nasty his way that's kind of designed to fuck over wizards specifically to start with, and then ramp it up big time if you find that he's still doing it.
Just tell him you can't do that anymore but don't retcon the events that happened before. It's not like it's that hard.
Who the fuck came up with this stupid shit?
stealing this
A broken as fuck feat. Honestly, the bigger problem is with assholes who pretend it's not broken and that anyone who knows how it works doesn't actually know the rules(or math, for that matter) so they enable people who actually want to abuse it.
I love this stupid-ass feat so much, it's a clever idea but it's fucking stupid.
Evidence?
Tell the DM to call the player a fucking asshole
No, that just legitimises the cheating.
As a man of mathematical inclination, this feat tickles my fancy. I'd love to take it just to have the little puzzles each time I used it.