/anrg/ - Android Netrunner General

Maybe, but if brain damage is the main flatlining method for Seidr, I'm not too optimistic especially when the runner has that "Prevent 2 damage" card on their side. Plus even with the campaigns Seidr will still have less economy than EtF, and Siphon will definitely be a thing. We'll see I suppose.

That card raises some timing questions, since it is a successful run AND a jack out.

Well, if the runner prevents Black Level Clearance he have to jack out, since he isn't taking brain damage.

Wonder how useful will Charlatan be? Hardly worth 3-off compared to Eli 2.0 I daresay.

If you can get a Charlatan early in the game with a Temujin, then I think it'll be fantastic. But it'll only be good enough to run 2 copies of it at the most.

Too bad, you had a perfect question of the day in previous thread:

>What is, in your honest opinion, the largest mistake in netrunner design wise?

I don't know about the user that asked the question, but for now I'm more looking at cards in the campaign frame.

I totally glossed over the campaign frame of mind there. I still think Charlatan will be good early game, but it will definitely be expensive to use. Armitage Codebusting will definitely be important for using it so that you can get the credits to just pay through ice. Maybe Hadrian's wall will be viable in some way so that criminals can't just pay their way through ice.

Not quite. You can prevent damage after electing to allow the effect that deals it to fire. That said I wish the return was a *little* better credit wise for a 4 rez cost, but you're still netting a credit and a card off of it if they want to avoid the brain in most cases. And don't forget the threat of Brain Damage on your Bioroid ICE is a nice way of "encouraging" the Runner to click through subs and fire Seidr's ID ability. I can imagine a case or two of a surprise Corporate Troubleshooter suddenly jacking up the humble Viktor 1.0 into a lose-lose proposition for the Runner.

>Maybe Hadrian's wall will be viable in some way so that criminals can't just pay their way through ice.

Colossus looks pretty good in that context.

Thinking of Charlatan, It costs the same as Crypsis, and the clicks can be translated as "put a virus counter on crypsis" and the other "make a run".
Then we have that both pay the same for the strength of the ICE, and Crypsis have to pay for the subroutines while Charlatan can only bypass the first ICE.
And of course, it bypasses.
Thoughts?

Colossus does look cool

With Colossus, Mausolus and Hortum ("gardens" in Latin), and Damon mentioning "7 Wonders ice" in an interview, I really hope we get all 7

Remaining are the Statue of Zeus at Olympia, the Pharos Lighthouse of Alexandria (with an option for the Walls of Babylon from the first time the list was made), the Pyramids and the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus (said to be the greatest of all the wonders)

One thing I think would be awesome would be if the pyramids got to be indestructible as their triple-advance feature - you know, what with them still being around.
I kind of think that if we get them they'll be a high strength barrier, what with being the simplest but largest wonder

I don't know what to make of Charlatan right now... looks like a secondary gear check solution... but it's a bit expensive for that purpose.

You mentioned that untrashable Pyramids idea in a previous thread, didn't you? I like it. Nice weaving of mechanical and fluff.

Weyland having good advancable ice will be a nice change of pace. I'm hoping this makes Anson Rose decks viable eventually.

Yes I did and on plebbit

>tfw Jinteki haven't added Daedlus Complex or the known TD cards yet

Really want to try out the lockout list I made on netrunnerdb

That makes me wonder about pic related - it looks like a piece of runner hardware, but that brain is known to be from a corp card (brain rewiring)

Always Be Running will deal with high STR/single subs fairly well. Overmind is decent support given Adam's natural rig (AI, manageabale cost, you tend to have MU to spare, once emptied you can trash it to Independent Thinking to fasten your deck).

Optimally what you want in a breaker is something that helps you with mutlisub ICE. So a toss between the Anarch Core Rig and Sunny's. Meta call.

Faust has always been a good choice too given your natural draw, low liquidity, and potential burst draw of Independent Thinking. Fits the early agression angle if that's what you're going for. Bit more risky nowadays that anti-AI tech is on the rise. Wouldn't overstate that though.

I still have to try that Tracker/Street Magic Jank somebody mentioned for facechecking.

My local "meta" is one other person who plays Netrunner on the side. GoT is his main game, so the 'meta' picks are whichever I find working more. Currently I've switched Mongoose of Shrike, but once I've done some testing on Jinteki.net, I might change the breakers up. If you don't mind, ill probably post the deck list in a few hours. I'd love some feedback on it.

It would be hilarious if Eli 2.0 accidentally causes the corp to deck out.

EmoEli: so edgy he cut the corp short.

Too bad it can't happen: the corp has a choice in the draw ("may" draw a card).

Crypsis does seem like the most apt comparison, Charlatan also avoids any AI hate like Turing or Chiyashi. I think it's value will be more obvious once we know if you can use it with unrezzed ice. If so, then it's a pretty good facecheck tool. If not, then it can function as a secondary breaker of sorts, especially for ice with weirder break costs, even if you can't choose which ice to use it on. I suspect potential synergy with the swindler suite (bypass the first few ice with the trash effect, then use Charlatan for inner ice), unless you can only use the bypass effects on those on encounter.

Now that you mention it... if I can fin time to rework decks a bit will try this week end.

Tracker(Street Magic)/Charlatan... hmmm new non-breaker shell in the making?

You can't use Tracker and Charlatan together, but it is pretty interesting that Crims are getting a bypass toolbox of sorts.

>You can't use Tracker and Charlatan together

Not together at once, but you can use each to deal with a different issue. They're kind of complementary, are they not?

Say, Tracker gets you through Space ICE for two credits and Charlatan gets you through Komainu (or a buffed up Next Silver) for one additional click and a credit... FAO support seems indicated.

Trouble is so few interesting targets for Charlatan (unless I'm missing some). Especially in Core - so TD would have to provide the other to make it valuable in campaign mode.

Yeah, that's what I meant by a bypass toolbox.

Inside Job for skipping outermost ice.
Spear Phishing for expensive innermost ice.
Charlatan for awkward to break outermost ice, and can be used more frequently than Inside Job.
Tracker for single sub ice, or synergy with Street Magic/Grappling Hook.
The swindler suite for that hail mary run you don't have enough credits for.
Feint gets special mention for enabling successful HQ effects.
Then there's the derez effects for semi-bypasses.

Interesting that none of these comboes with the other, which is good. You're right that Charlatan has few targets though, especially if we're going the way of "cheap high strength ice" we might be heading into. I also think Find the Truth will be instrumental for Criminals, just so they will have a second server to snipe at.

How many Stimhacks to splash in? Especially when it's probably all Skorpios without any brain damaging stuff all day...

>I also think Find the Truth will be instrumental for Criminals

I know I've put GlobalSec Security Clearance to great use in some of the slower builds (this plus Bug in Stirling offered some really interesting possibilities - you really don't play the same game when you basically know every card the corp has at all times).

Find the Truth will probably do something similar for the more popular faster and more aggressive deck.

I'm only using cards that I own in this deck, so that is the reason for the lack of e3's. Any advice would be great.

Adam: Compulsive Hacker

Event (10)
3x Dirty Laundry
2x Employee Strike ●●
3x Sure Gamble
2x Uninstall

Hardware (5)
3x Brain Chip
2x Sports Hopper

Resource (24)
2x Aaron Marrón ●●●●
2x Always Be Running
2x Armitage Codebusting
3x Daily Casts
2x Data Folding
2x Dr. Lovegood
2x Drug Dealer ●●
1x Hades Shard ●
2x Hunting Grounds ●●
2x Same Old Thing
3x Temüjin Contract ●●●●● ●
1x The Turning Wheel ●

Icebreaker (6)
1x Corroder ●●
1x Gordian Blade ●●●
1x GS Shrike M2 ●●
3x Overmind

25 influence spent (max 25, available 0)
45 cards (min 45)

The recent fiasco with SYNC BRE got me to thinking, could there be room for permanent effects as a punishment for facechecking ice? It doesn't have to be something severe like "access one less card", something light like "increase HQ by one", or "when a corp card is trashed, gain 1". Maybe with an additional requirement to fire it too. Could open up interesting possibilities to previously considered weak mechanics.

Permanent Ice - Unique
Mythic
4 rez 3 strength
>The corp may remove Permanent Ice from the game. If so, the corp gains +2 hand size.

Is there a good place to find the storyline of each cycle?

Well, brain damage effects does count for one for permanent effects, bad pub to another extent, so there are exisiting precedents to what you are suggesting.

Not sure what would the corp affecting versions would be like balance wise though.

Maybe try your luck at Project ANCUR?

Ooh, I've actually forgotten about that card. It's definitely a lot more flexible than Find the Truth, and comboes with Chronotype too. Definitely worth considering if you can't satisfy the run requirement for Find the Truth, think I'll give it a shot myself.

You need 2 link to install GSC though.

Nero and some Sports Hoppers will help, even if the slow approach seems counter to his ability at first glance.

An archetype I always loved, but was never quite popular, was Gabriel Pheromones/Vamp.

Similarly, the one I played the most was CT Pheromones with Personal Workshop.

What Directive setup are you playing with that? Removing ABR for Find the the Truth?

Demorun/Nerve Agent

or

Wanton Destruction/Amped Up?

this game seems really open ended as far as deck construction and the games take forever
kind of hard to imagine getting into this game. anyone recommend any newbie decks or something? any general tips for the game?

Have your fill of the default core set decks first (all cards of a faction + neutral cards). Deck building ideas will come soon enough. NBN can be pretty fast due to SanSan and chaining Astroscript.

General tips for both sides is usually "more economy" and "find ways to pressure the other side". Runner side I'd say "don't be afraid to set up", and Corp side I've read to "trust your ice".

the games only take forever at the beginning, when you have to think through every decision and don't know how the game goes.
Like every other game really.
Netrunner games are actually pretty fast, ranging from 20 to 30 minutes, only taking longer when both sides play the long game without pressuring much the other side.

Start with the default decks to taste the game and see if you like it enough.
Here are some Teaching decks if you want to disregard the previous advice
boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/156783/netrunner-teaching-deck-project-now-core-decks-too

Yes, Find the Truth is amazing since I don't have to "waste" my first click on running on something, especially if I have no money and there are multiple pieces of taxing ice.

Yeah, that was a cool addition for Adam - I just hope next time (maybe not this cycle, but next time), he gets a way to spend some of those credits.

And I wonder, seeing as we're on Mars, if we'll see Pat (who, based on pic related, should have a "Mars's best mom" mug

I like this guy, he's always quick to put his stuff up

...

And this artist too - she reckons she was going through a bit of an art slump at the time, I think it's okay.

Don't think I'd really noticed the beanstalk in the background before

Yakuza matron

...

Thought: does the internet community negatively impact overall play experience?

I remember a thread or two ago a bunch of debate about piloting being the preeminent skill with Netrunner. I'm wondering if sites like NetrunnerDB and Jinteki lead to a place that the game is t supposed to be played. A lot of the game is designed around information and who has it, which should naturally be tilted towards the corp.
But all the decklists and knowledge online leads to play state where the "most effective" decks are known leading to a expectation where there's little reason to play anything else. Which also means most players can judge their opponents deck within a few turns and piloting takes over.

Theoretically, the game should be played blind. It occurred to me while trying to tune a deck that my friend knew my game plan, having played against the deck before, and skewed his play specifically against that strategy rather than adhere to his own deck's plan.

All my adjustments became influenced by these games. I found myself fall back on the same power cards and my deck becoming something else. Which...just means that everyone knows what my deck is and will do.

Is the meta stuck in this vicious cycle because we rely on and judge cards in a vacuum like this? Is this why we undervalued ambushes? Am I dumb?

I think there's probably a bit of over-reliance on meta and knowing the "most effective" decks, though I actually think playing online can mitigate that (as long as you stay out of the Competitive room anyway), but I think part of it is because card knowledge is so goddamn important in netrunner

When you can know all the cards (and right from the core set, knowing the big hitters in the card pool has been vital) you're always going to have a bit of this issue, and doubly so when you know the person you're playing well, so playing totally blind was never going to work

I think the main reason it's an issue is that we're currently looking at a fairly stale time in the meta when it comes to deck diversity, especially at the top - there's been times when you were likely to see a few different decks - and more importantly, a few different playstyles - at the top of the game, but right now what's "best" is really not that broad - though TD's IDs, Jamison when they have their support and AgInfusion's trolling from Mars should shake things up a bit

First, I'll quote something I wrote in a old thread, which I've come to believe hits on something (though it needs to be refined):

The competitive ethos's final aim is that of a solved state (not necessarily "the" solved state, could be several equilibrium points after all).

From an outsider point of view, it's basically like competitive players are putting all their efforts into breaking the game, and then complain when the game is broken, while casually dismissing all the opened design space that isn't the race toward that breaking point. Because what they want it seems to me is being caught up in the process of breaking the game without ever breaking it. And that's not gonna happen.
----
I don't know how much the online interaction component hurts the game. Overall, I think it's just a catalyst. It certainly fastens that process I just mentioned, especially as far as the induced uniformization is concerned. You're right on that. With all that entails in reduced value of expose/data gathering and basically going auto-pilot (which mind you, I don't find a good measure of piloting skill - to me the true test is how consistently well one manages when hitting decks one doesn't know nor understand yet).

A lot of the non-competitive players I play with will go online, but mostly won't care. Casual players by and by don't interact at all with online and the overall meta as far as I can tell - hell, some of the most casual players wouldn't even know about new releases if not for others mentioning it to them. And I think it's telling that those communities seem to be having a much better time. They don't go to tournaments. We'll see them to the club occasionally. They don't care about your super optimized decks - they'll collectively play "suboptimal" on purpose. And the only big recurring complaint I can hear from them really is how the card pool grows too fast.

As always, depends on the deck.

Amped up + Wanton if you like you high risk/high reward (given your self-brain could trash Wanton if you're not lucky) with little to no set up.

Nerve+DemoRun if you like your slower methodical synergy builds (with a bit more flexibility to boot DemoRun being able to be used for Medium runs too).

There's also what I dub "exhibition games" with players taking their sweet time and games that can go other an hour not because the decks are slow, but because the pace is more dictated by the friendly chatter around and about the game than by the mechanical necessities of the game itself.

I've been thinking all day about that... I kinda like the base idea, but given the closest we have to it (as in permanent, hard to interact with effects) is agendas... you'd have to be extremely careful with balancing I'd say. Could easily take the game in weird directions.

As someone new to netrunner, I completely agree with those casual players. I thought there would be at least a few month gap in between the Flashpoint cycle and Red Sands, give players a chance to catch up, etc.. I also feel like this is part of the reason why the competitive meta can 'solved' so easily. People will find out what cards are extremely powerful early on, but then the next cycle will come and out there won't be as much experimentation with those older cards.

I definitely feel like if there was a bit more of a gap between cycles, the casual players would have a better time catching up on content, and then maybe the competitive players would be able to play some weirder decks and experiment a bit more. And then maybe the game wouldn't feel so "solved".

I share my opinion with , particularly with

>it's basically like competitive players are putting all their efforts into breaking the game, and then complain when the game is broken

I especially noticed this when one pretty popular deck creator promoted their deck by starting with "Are you sick of degenerate corp decks such as prison, etc.", despite being the original creator of the early prison decks that plagued Mumbad, and posting a newer prison deck not long after.

I would say yes, online does influence play experience a good bit, especially when the top players promote the degenerate or top tier decks by using them in premiere events. People naturally flock to those either to actually play them or to find weaknesses online, which increases the number of encounters with those decks, which naturally makes players skew their decks to handle them or switch to a higher tier deck, and so forth.

I think hits it right with card knowledge being important too. I'll quote my post last thread about how "knowing the meta" shouldn't yield better results over "playing with what you have", and what could help mitigate that. I agree, it'd have to be mechanics that are otherwise underutilized, such as hand size, and agenda abilities that are otherwise "too weak".

...

Ok, a bit late sorry, and don't have much to contribute to boot... kinda hard to advise without knowing your card pool.

I'm guessing Uninstall is to cycle Overmind (maybe reduce program size for Data Folding, though that seems weird to me...)? With that rig I'm not sure you really need it. I'm thinking maybe a single Independent Thinking as a wildcard major draw boost (If you're willing to sacrifice a Directive for it)... and/or maybe some grip boost?

Deck seems pretty solid to me. Though not my fave (I'm an ABR opening kind).

I'd be willing to experiment with that ICE in a ridiculous GRNDL style bad pub deck and Chief Slee if not for assets being too damn inexpensive to trash in those.

I guess my group falls into a weird semi-competitive or "try hard" play style. We're aware of the meta, we like to read articles or listen to podcasts, but we try to reject net-decking and some of the known power cards in favor of finding something different.

I made a cybernetics deck the other day, and was a little ashamed when I kept saying "no" when my friend asked me about cards I included...only to achieve total lockout (against Smoke!) on HQ, R&D, and my scoring with rezzed Valley Grids. Felt good, but I feel like it only worked because it was unexpected.

I concede the part of knowing the big hitters. I still have trouble with knowing what the corp can rez when they have X credits.

>I guess my group falls into a weird semi-competitive

I like the term "non-competitive" for those. They're not casual - anyone that attends weekly club meetings or more and keeps informed about releases and spoilers (to describe those players I have in mind) isn't really *casual*. But they're not competitive either. They only care about the tournament scene in so much as it offers interesting playing opportunities. And they don't build to win at all costs. they build to have fun/interesting games first.

The casuals, truly casuals people I play with will play sometimes just once per month. Maybe less.

Not to say that competitive players can't switch into non-competitive mode, creative and fun mode, but it's clearly a switch as you can see in the evolution of their deck lists in and out of tournament season.

>if not for assets being too damn inexpensive to trash in those.
Yeah, I do wish Weyland had something for all their cheap to trash assets - maybe to represent security on them or something

The uninstall is the cycle the overminds, just because if I don't draw any of my breakers early enough, I need something to break that pesky ice. I really like ABR, but not early in the game since it limits my options a bit more than I would like. I'm considering throwing in a Independent Thinking for card #46, I was really reluctant to cut it for testing purposes. I think I will throw it back in though.

Amusing game against a Jesminder deck going DDOS and then abusing Maya/Equivocation with Data Breach to ram through R&D with no multi access.

Lots of fun.

Is it just me or is that face on Charlatan the Criminal faction symbol?

Kinda strange that the runner faction symbols haven't been very prominent in the artwork at this point really.

Seems like it, or atleast if it isn't the symbol explicitly then the similarity is intentional. Wonder if the Runner faction symbols have any significance in-universe?

Is there a good way to incorporate IDs into cube draft?

I guess the Anarch one is a really stylised version of the 'traditional' version? No clue about the other 2. The Crim skill looks more like something a PriSec company would have instead.

>Is it just me or is that face on Charlatan the Criminal faction symbol?

Kinda see it now that you mentioned it. Might just have to do with both being an abstracted representation of a face.

Pretty sure its considered successful then you can access Jack out or something instead of accessing

I just got every data pack for cheap, I have a playset of everything from the core set minus one ofs (and biotic labor I think?).
I have no big boxes.

Could anyone give some advice on what decks I could possibly make?
Should I just bite the bullet and buy a box?
If so which one?

Oh I also have the 2015 World Championship decks.

I don't think you absolutely NEED the big box cards if you have everything besides them. You'll want them eventually, but I think you'll manage.

Assuming you're new, I'd still recommend proxying the cards you're missing to build and play the default decks first, just to get a feel of if you like the game. If you're just about ready to jump into proper deck building though, then I don't know, go after whatever idea you have floating and ask for advice here I guess?

You would probably need the big boxs if you are playing Shaper/Anarch/Jinteki/NBN, otherwise you could do without them for now.

That said, the upcoming Terminal Directive would be nice for Crims/HB/Weyland hopefully.

>I have a playset of everything from the core set minus one ofs (and Biotic Labor I think?).
So, you are missing these:

Anarchs
>Grimoire
>Ice Carver
Criminal
>Desperado
>Data Dealer
Shaper
>The Toolbox
>Aesop's Pawnshop
HB
>Corporate Troubleshooter
Jinteki
>Zaibatsu Loyalty
>Akitaro Watanabe
NBN
>SanSan City Grid
Weyland
>Security Subcont

AND Biotic Labor.

Without Biotic Labor and SanSan you're missing the core tools for Fast Advance.
Without Grimoire and Desperado you're missing some big boosts for their respectives factions. Grimoire is amazing for all virus decks. It means Cache produces 3 credits, parasites eat 1 strength ICE, Medium access an extra card immediatelly, etc.
Desperado extra credit is just amazing, although I have a good experience with Doppelganger and Temujin/Bank Job.
Aesop's Pawnshop is vital on many econ engines, it's a great boost. I recommend you find a tripled Aesop's promo, it's probably pretty cheap by now.
Datadealer, Corporate Troubleshooter and Ice Carver are all good cards, but not must have.
The rest are fine but you won't be missing them much.

Everyone recommends starting buying big boxes instead of datapacks because they have the biggest value for your money, that's why you're going to have a hard time finding decks for your special situation.

He has the championship decks which has SanSan and Biotic Labor I think.

Champ deck doesn't have either, it was a HB glacier deck.

Nah, Dan went for a Caprice lockout foodcoats deck, he has no fast advance in there. He's getting better things Runner side with Daily Casts and SOT.

I should clarify:
I have a core set, I just have a playset of specific cards that the dude that sold me the packs was willing to give me.
So I have 2 biotics and a sansan.

I've managed to find a number of HB decks which I could play, I just feel as though I'm missing so many vital runner cards.

Big Boxes are amazing for Runners. Clone Chip, Day Job, Dirty laundry, all come from big boxes. But the big boxes are not vital unless you want to make a deck around the strategies that comes with them.
If you want bad pub centered deck you need Order and Chaos, if you want a recursion shaper you need Creation and Control. The big boxes are like a renewal of their faction faces, bringing new aspects of the faction and enhancing old ones.
For instance, the core shaper played around the idea of changing the subtypes of the ICE and forcing the Corp into a bad situation where he had to ICE with different types or the Runner would save a lot of credits. Creation and Control changed that, giving them a recursion tool to swap their decks and fit the best programs to adapt to the Corp board state. Stuff like that.

Self Modifying Code is pretty important for Shaper, but I wouldn't buy Creation and Control just for it. I've Had Worse and maybe Day Job is pretty important for Anarchs, but still nothing I'd splurge on. If I had 720 cards in my disposal, I'd rather find interesting ways to play with those first instead of getting new ones.

Plus, he already has Test Run. Half SMC, half Clone Chip.

bump

Eh, I'd definitely say the big boxes went runner, corp, runner, corp (though you don't see many of the Jinteki IDs much)

Wonder if soon Tennin might want a second look at advancable ice (especially wonder ice), though Red Planet Couriers' 4 inf likely precludes too many shenanigans

Please don't make contentless bumps

It's a successful run, the Jack Out is part of the trigger on Black Level itself, so anything that triggers off of a successful run will still trigger.

Sure, the next time I see the thread at page 10 and don't have the time to make up a decent post quickly, upload a picture, or have the energy to respond to any posts, then I'll just leave the thread to die then.

I do think that's been a big problem for the game. People will focus on volume of cards, but I find tend to downplay the issue that the relentless release of schedule poses.

I play, build and test at a decent pace, will generally try a new build a week per side... and I feel completely drowned in cards I haven't properly played or tested.
Now the casuals, which I think as far I can say made the bulk of the people that stopped upgrading post D&D were looking at whole swathes of cards they hadn't even played yet, and decided that they had months, maybe years of fun ahead with their investment and had no need for more cards right now.

Locally, the non-competitive make the bulk of the people that are talking of stopping upgrading post rotation (though there's some noise from more competitive types; they don't find Boggs convincing for now, I hear). Likewise, they have a lot of time ahead before they've exhausted what their card pool has to offer. Trouble is, by the time they feel the need for new cards, the game might ot be there anymore. Or they won't feel like making the investment to join the general meta anymore...

I think this isn't so much an issue for the most competitive players because they just see buying data packs as buying the few power cards they want and everything else gets stashed away and never touched again unless/until some big change happens that forces them to go back there (see Power Tap). Or they just feel the itch to build some jank.

Don't feed it.

New personal headcannon! Troll is actually Noise's turn-tabling weaponized back by NBN.

How does Netrunner's release schedule differ from MtG's actually? Despite the latter having loads more cards, the general attitude for them is a lot different compared to the LCG format in general, which could have a clue in there somewhere on the mentality of the players about buying new cards.

Also, the fact is despite the constant release of new cards and the seemingly large amount of 20 cards per pack, players only ever want/need