What would happen if a UEF commander reclaimed Abbadon the Despoiler...

The Aeon have psykers capable of mind controlling entire planets of people, and shields in-universe grant immunity to psychic powers.

Naturally that would extend to warp based powers for the sake of argument unless you're a turbo autist.

Supreme Commander has defenses against damn near everything.

I wonder, would the 40k galaxy be more fucked over by the factions of Supreme Commander or by the factions of Total Annihilation?

The Arm and Core do not fuck around.

TA Commanders are 9 meters tall.
SupCom Commanders are 90 meters.

SupCom is basically just TA multiplied by 10.

40k vs Total Annihilation would be a fairer fight.

The biggest difference between the two games is that TA escalated the war to the point there is barely a galaxy left to fight over, never breaking the stalemate. Supcom doesn't, the infinite war is made finite by Black Sun. The supcom factions are still human enough that a weapon capable of totally annihilating planets will make them stop fighting.

That's the main reason they're not suited to fight TA or 40k. Neither universe gives a shit about that kind of destruction. Supcom factions aren't willing to destroy the galaxy just to make sure their enemy can't live in it either.

I forget, how tall was the Krogoth? Could it compete with Imperial titans? Would the BLOD be just as feared?

They stopped fighting because the Black Sun destroyed their homeworlds and could strike anytime anywhere, at least in the UEF ending. The other endings had the Black Sun fire the Emancipation Proclamation plus a galaxy-wide travel ban, or shoot out love and friendship. The Black Sun was made to be a literal game-ender, not just a psychological one.

What the hell happened to the Black Sun after the Seraphim invaded?

It's not like ripping out components from a Chaos machine and shoving it in a new machine, though. Reclaiming seems to rely on mass into energy and vice versa. There isn't even any internal storage with units that can reclaim, it goes straight into a central pool of resources, so unless this is a breakdown between gameplay and fluff for SupCom then it only makes sense that they convert mass into energy for remote transmission into storage to convert it back into mass. And why not? They have both teleportation and use specialized structures that can convert between resources. So at this point it's a question of whether reclaiming sufficiently destroys the matter in question before it is repurposed.

As for co-opting units, sure, Chaos could probably manage to do that since capturing units between factions in SucCom is standard as long as there is no pilot, and if there is meat in the can then it's vulnerable in other ways.

>What the hell happened to the Black Sun after the Seraphim invaded?
You've never played Forged Alliance?

I don't remember it ever being mentioned? I think my memory may be shoddy, but I'm just wondering why the Seraphim didn't hijack it and use it for galactic conquest

Not him, but that just occurred to me too. Black Sun is still intact in the final mission, it's why fletcher goes rogue. He wants to power it up and destroy the aeon and the cybean after the seraphim are finished.

It might destabalize the quantuum rift if it fired again. Black sun destabilized the dimensional barriers enough for the seraphim invasion in the first place. Maybe it tears apart the earth to fire it again.

Using Black Sun is what weakened the "barrier" and allowed the Seraphim to open their gate and invade. Black Sun still exists, however, and in the final mission whichever faction you are using can capture the Black Sun control center. You don't USE it as Black Sun but rather it's tied into Earth's Option Zero defense system (i.e. scorched Earth policy by nuking the shit out of the entire planet rather than be conquered). Only one nuke launcher is operational but you do get to use it in the final push against the Seraphim gate.

The point is that a weapon that can strike anywhere like black sun wouldn't make TA or (much of) 40k stop fighting. They'd be pissed but still willing to sacrifice as many of their own planets as necessary.

>building mexes and pgens before your first factory
>in 2013
What a terrible person.

How do build orders out of curiosity. I'm trying to ladder in FAF

It seems to be around 3-4 times the size of the commander, but it's firepower/durability to size ratio is all fucked, so I assume it's scaled down for gameplay purposes.

It is entirely possible that TA tech is just more compact for the same power output.

For starters, I don't think SupCom has anything equivalent to the D-Gun.

Also I might be misremembering this so someone can correct me, but I recall reading that units in TA have a special kind of armor that makes it so that the strength of the armor at any point is equal is equal to the strength of the armor at the strongest point. Basically this means that units in TA have no weak points and that no matter what angle you attack them from you'll always be attacking their strongest armor.

Basically the thing with TA is that they tried to justify everything in-game as a technology, so build time is real time and the fact that units have a healthbar is due to their special armor and some other wank I can't recall now. SupCom also did this, but only with build times, iirc.

That aside, discussions about 40k vs super-tech universes are pointless because it always comes down to Chaos and that discussion always becomes idiotic.

I believe this is the bit you're remembering.

>SupCom also did this
The SupCom explanation for unit healthbars came from the faction's extreme paranoia against technology theft. You never actually kill any units, they simply self-destruct once there's even a shadow of a chance the damage they're sustaining might result in system failure.

Those systems also account for why it takes longer to reclaim a living unit than a dead ones. Even successfully subverted units eventually revert to the opposing side before any reverse engineering can take place.

>Heavy armor
Yeah that it.

How would the bottom tier, basic units from the Supreme Commander/Total Annihilation factions rank in 40k?

These things are cheap and easy to spam, so whoever they're fighting can expect to see a lot of them.

A Mech Marine from SupCom is something like 11 meters tall and can run at something like 250 kph, iirc. It's also really weak on the SupCom scale.

A PeeWee from TA is somewhere from a few meters to 10m tall (we never got official heights for units in TA, the Commander is speculated to be somewhere between 10 and 20 meters tall). The manual states that all TA units have that Heavy Armor dealio that can shrug off a lot of damage, and they all have a very powerful ECM and electronic warfare suites that make them basically invisible until you're right on top of them (justification for the fog of war). Weapon-wise the words "multi-kiloton machinegun" are thrown about for the PeeWee.

So the PeeWee most likely shits on the Warhound Titan pretty easily, and the Mech Marine also ends up beating a Warhound but probably not that easily.

Mechmarines and the other equivalents about the size of an Imperial Knight.

With a handful of engineers assisting building they can be pumped out faster than they can leave the factory.

Mech Marine page

Light tank size comparison

And a turret

Note that this is a T3 turret, not a basic one.

I fucking love those T3 turrets.

They're a very important part of my aggressively defensive strategy.

>pumped out faster than they can leave the factory
I'm pretty sure that if by the end of a long SupCom game you select all your land factories at once, you can build Mech Marines faster than you can click with the mouse (shift+click and others aside).

>Weapon-wise the words "multi-kiloton machinegun" are thrown about for the PeeWe

Depending on whether you find the Galactic War Reports to be canon or not.

Even if that isn't accurate, we do know they have rapid fire (fusion?) guns that can easily destroy other k-bots of their tier. That's gotta pack a punch.

This

Well yeah, that's why I used the phrase "thrown about."

Still, they are written by Cavedog themselves and they did make the effort to tie them into the story.

Basically it's the same problem 40k has where writers don't really have a proper sense of scale and not everything agrees.

Still, even going by the manual, a PeeWee can take hits from plasma cannons (10,000,000 degrees as per the manual) and are pretty effective throughout their tier and even through some level 2.

>rapid fire (fusion?)
The manual calls them "dual energy machine guns"

Another point, as per the manual, is that a TA Commander carries "special nano-technology born viruses which allow them to capture intelligences running other war machines," so it goes to show that TA factions are not entirely unprepared to face threats of a corrupting nature (ala Chaos).

Depends on various factors related to the map such as the amount of reclaim near you, the number of mexes in your core and the number of mexes close to your core, whether or not there is a hydro and how distant it is from your core, and of course what strategy you have in mind.
Most build orders will start with 1 LandFac, 2 PGen, 2 mex, with the first factory immediately building engineers to go reclaim and grab more mexes. As a general rule you want to keep your mass bar as low as possible, that is, spend mass as quickly as possible.

Expanding from the initial build, the rule of thumb is 1 unassisted land factory requires 1 pgen and 2 mexes to maintain and 1 air factory requires 4 pgens and 1 mex to maintain.

There are some tutorial videos you can watch for more and better info, but in the end you largely have to simply get a feel for the economy because you need to be able to adapt to changing circumstances rather than stick to a single rigid build order.

>Basically it's the same problem 40k has where writers don't really have a proper sense of scale and not everything agrees.
Worse, Cavedog said most TA fan stories were canon on top of all that.

youtube.com/watch?v=nu3ZjRkCmy8
CORE and ARM go big all the fucking time

It always annoyed me how the Implosion device was based on "lost alien technology" and that's about the only mention of any aliens in the entire game.

I would have been more satisfied with that ending if the device was the Core's invention from start to finish.

i like to think its lost alien tech because the war smashed those aliens into paste, core swooped in and got the idea running

McCrage was conquered by single man.

The only area where supcom tech looses is space warfare.

Total annihilation though...particular tech level 10 Total Annihilation which flyings stellar clusters as weapons of annihilation....

Total annihilation hands down. What you have in Ta are the remnants of galaxy spanning empires that used star clusters as weapons and where a single Peewee could curbstomb most supcom Titans.

>not 15 hours Computer spontaneously combusts

And what about their younger brother, Planetary anihillation? It hasTitans the size of a mountain cluster, use moons and other space bodies as weapons, and has the same capacity of self replication as the others.

>Planetary Annihilation
Shame that game turned out to be fucking awful.

It was mediocre on launch, but the Titans rerelease was actually pretty solid.

The problem with that logic is that the Black Sun seemed to be capable of destroying a shitton of worlds at the same time with just a single shot rather than just one. The Cybran Nation clinged on worlds whose locations were unknown and the UEF had a desire to reclaim Aeon worlds as many of these originally belonged to the UEF and their motto is still "Unity", not "Annihilation". Both factions were crippled in FA and lost the majority of their worlds after a single shot of the Black Sun.

We don't know how much worlds the Black Sun is capable of destroying with a single shot but it does not seem like something the Empire of Man can handle in the slightest.

The TA factions are another story though.

If we're bringing the Black Sun up as a serious threat to anyone outside of the SupCom universe, I feel it needs to be pointed out that Black Sun as a weapon utilized the Quantum Gate Network. If a commander were dropped into a setting where there is no such network existing then Black Sun wouldn't do shit.

Not that I know how this proposed crossover is supposed to work, it wasn't exactly laid out. The two universes are pretty damn incompatible so both couldn't exist on a fundamental level. Presumably quantum shenanigans drop a commander into the 40k universe since just one of those guys can spawn an entire invasion in pretty short order.

SupCom is a universe where they can convert matter into energy and vice versa. Imagine if the tyranids were so voracious that even the planets themselves were consumed and instead of termagaunts they used warriors and larger as their lightest unit. Without changing how many units they typically deploy.
SupCom is terrifying. A single commander given literally an hour of leeway can conquer a planet with little difficulty. And then build interplanetary teleporters to move on to the next world.

yet they remain mostly human
mah boi what you need is total annihilation
youtube.com/watch?v=k6mZZiI4ShQ

Played both. Even played SupCom 2, to my regret. It honestly feels like TA is just SupCom in a universe where it simply kept on going. An eternal war where literally everything is sacrificed and no one even remembers why there's a war anymore. They fight and kill because any other course of action is almost literally unthinkable. TA is SupCom's 40k.

That's so ridiculously big.

DO remember that BOth SupCom 1, Total anihillation and PLanetary Anihillation had quite a big group of the same team working into it. They are all Spiritual Sucessors, From a prequel that shows a world that is starting the eternal war, and a sequel where they just forgot everything, humanity in all ways dying in said war, but the war becoming its sentient child.

It's purpose is to drive off robots the size of apartment buildings. A couple of these under a t3 shield means you either wait for artillery or look for a way around.

The difference is that the factions in TA don't even have the capacity for peace anymore. The Core units are piloted by weird cut down patterns of people with pretty much nothing but combat protocols and the Arms ones are piloted by cloned brains with pretty much everything that makes them human excised as well.

hell, civies in core are programs in ethernal sleeping mode
and the arm i suppose they are on cryo or something
id be surpried if there are any humans left

They do also harvest earth, air, water, minerals, metals etc... They'll eat it all. Not saying they would win though

Yeah, feels like that would just make 'nids worth more when reclaimed. It wouldn't change the problem that the 'nids without biomass have a huge problem as any other resources would be pretty much useless to them without biological material.

Reduced to chaos particles? How far down does corruption go? I'm assuming, for matters of Grimdarkness, that it goes all the way, past subatomic. Plus Chaos has an energy component, so that's probably not good either.

I'd go with the instantaneous transmission of energy/mass between units since that's the only way units that can reclaim but cannot build make sense, or units that can (especially when idle) generate energy. There's also units whose weaponry/shields draw on the collective energy resource. There's definitely a wireless connection there. So corrupt one generator or storage structure and they could fuck up the entire army. Maybe. Not swearing how this would even work and other posts have claimed that units are designed to self-destruct to preserve technological secrets even if they've been captured, so there's definitely room to debate if that's true.

Trying to figure out how the gameplay and the actual story works, yeah, the Paragon itself is just all kinds of fucked up and broken.

doesnt the paragon actually breaks the thermodinamics and makes more energy, than mass/energy needed to operate?

Sadly it didn't save the game.

Hey, remember that psychic powers absolutely exist in the SupCom world, and it's normal for Commanders to have both shielding against and training to resist outside influence.

Pretty sure it's experimental hand wavy quantum shit. Tapping into dark matter/energy kind of shit.

SupCom2 at least had a few interesting components. Interesting seeing multiple overlapping shields bouncing shits between themselves. And in either the annoyance of debris getting through shields and still causing damage.

In SupCom 2 each faction's shields worked slightly differently. If I remember correctly, Aeon shields had a chance of deflecting shots away, Cybran shields only absorbed the majority of the damage, letting the rest pass through and UEF shields were 'normal' in that they absorbed the shot completely without any special effects. IIRC Cybran shields were pretty much the best since buildings and units had pretty good health regen anyways, so letting some damage through didn't really matter and made the shield last longer.

It's all fun and games until you blow up a mothership experimental and it comes crashing down on your own base.

The game had some interesting additions, but mostly I remember it as a big stinker overall. Smaller maps, smaller units, simplified everything, pretty much.

There was a good reason why I named my CZARs in SupCom 1 as 'Very expensive tac missile', because that's what they were the best at: massive pieces of mass that you crashed down on the enemy ACU.

Ah yes, the Tsar Bomba technique.

Probably because you have to buy the not-as-shitty version of the game separately, even if you already own the shitty version.

Those scales are wrong. ACUs for all four sides top off at 40 meters.

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So half the size I was thinking of, but still big. Someone will have to edit the picture later.