/5eg/ - Fifth Edition Discussion

>whole team can enjoy Timestop for the full duration.

Uh... how?

I will, later, when I am on a computer and not a phone

Someone please remind me how the hell Timestop is a level 9 spell?

Because it's always been a 9th level spell, and WotC never changes tradition.

Even when it's a completely shit spell.

Yeah, I figured as much. I know about warlord and warden and I like them a lot but they don't quite fit into fighter without some kinda large changes.
Gracias

I dunno what's sadder. That most of these will never get made, or that the homebrew for shit like Binder, Shaman, and Runepriest are all better than what WizKids would eventually shit out.

Maybe this will help scratch the itch somewhat

When you affect a creature I thought the spell ended only for that creature.

Right it's uter trash, Acion surge 10x better. It's becaus it used to be a god spell (auto hit affecte creatures)

You can't cast a spell with the extra action provided by haste. You also cannot cast a bonus action spell in the same turn as another spell, unless that spell is an attack cantrip.

TL;DR: no 2 spells in one turn.

HOWEVER, it IS possible to ready an action to cast timestop shortly before your turn.

Why do people give a shit about Crusader while not giving a fuck about Warblade or Swordsage?

Is it just the DEUS VULT meme and people not realizing that it's pretty much just a cleric or a paladin in a game that doesn't have the Tome of Weeaboo Fightan Magic?

I think it's less the DEUS VULT meme and more the weaaboo fightan magic meme, and the obsession with every class related to it.

Swordsage and Warblade have five votes against Crsuader's ten, so there's at least five people who aren't interested in Crusader because of Weeaboo Fightan Magic.

How difficult is Hoard of the Dragon Queen to someone DMing for the first time?

Wow, there's not a single class in that list that I would want as even an archetype, much less a standalone class.

The real answer is Favored Soul, which never should have been an archetype, especially not for fucking Sorcerer.

>Warblade

I have no idea what a warblade is, but that name is fucking stupid

I miss classes having two viable stat builds, instead of just one.

Thanks for this user. It needs a little bit of polish in the interest of consistency, but it's really good.

What is your favorite build 5eg? I am partial to the Nuclear Wizard.

How would Veeky Forums do a Strength ranger?

I've been poking at a concept and Half-Orc ranger looks like the best execution but I've never played a ranger before, much less a variation.

There's a joke here about blades not being used for war and how the ones who are need a full class to differentiate themselves.

>How would Veeky Forums do a Strength ranger?

By playing an Oath of the Ancients paladin

Thanks! I'm still polishing and always taking suggestions.

What's your favorite trap, of all time? Any edition.
For me, I'd say White Plume Mountain has one, which would be the bubble room or strangely enough, The Tyranny of Dragons Module has a spin on the classic Indiana Jones Boulder trap

Warblades are the martial class of Weeaboo Fightan Magic, while Swordsages are sort of arcane and Crusaders are divine.

And for the uninitiated, the Book of Weeaboo Fightan Magic is actually called the Tome of Battle and it was 3.5's precursor to 4e's action economy. It allowed martial classes to use abilities that were essentially spells, just called Maneuvers and Stances instead. This was disliked because people compared it to combat in anime and declared it weeaboo. This was during Veeky Forums's unironic anti-weeaboo period.

Hey guys, why is Neutral Evil disliked? It seems to me it's the easiest alignment to roleplay as evil without being a massive dick to your party.

Pal-locks are fun for me, but the new Hexblade Patron is looking rather nice.

Also Fighter2/BarbarianX for fighting style and Action Surge crit shenanigans.

>It allowed martial classes to use abilities that were essentially spells, just called Maneuvers and Stances instead.

But this is literally how I describe the Battlemaster to normies.

Evil PCs are meme tier

Incorrect. That's LE. NE is Rita Repulsa.

>haste
Oh right thanks

>no 2 spells
You can with action surge

No, thank you. Paladin, even if they've been redefined as cause-driven rather than explicitly religious in 5e, still doesn't have the correct archetype connotations for my purposes.

Probably Berserker Barbarian, or Champion Fighter.

Bailey Jay

Almost everyone thinks evil PCs can't function in normal parties. Almost everyone is wrong.
Of course, most players should never be allowed within 100 feet of an evil character, but it's not impossible to get right.

>Unironically saying "normies"

First thing I'd say is that there need to be more Tricks available to them. Maybe have some new ones available at later levels (similar to level limits on Warlock invocations) to simulate a progression in tactical knowledge. I'm also assuming that the Tricks and Commands learned through the schools don't count towards the limit of those known.

Don't forget PHB Beastmaster Ranger.

I walked right into this.

>Tricks and Commands learned through the schools don't count towards the limit of those known
Naturally.
>there need to be more Tricks available to them
I've been getting this fairly often. I'll see what I can cook up.
>new ones available at later levels (similar to level limits on Warlock invocations)
The issue is that tricks are essentially cantrips. They're designed to impact your combat patterns without being very strong.

These were a little more supernatural than the Battlemaster's maneuvers.

Have a read:
>tcdftp.drshnaps.com/Kojiro/Tome of Battle-OEF.pdf

Or look at the image just as an example of how supernatural some of these maneuvers were.

Does anyone have the Binder homebrew?

>Archivist
3.5 Heroes of Horror Cleric that has hit points and learns spells like a wizard, grants allies bonuses against and helps them bypass the special defenses of specific creature types.

>Beguiler
3.5, PHB II Sneaky caster, illusion and enchantment, saves are harder if they get the drop on someone. Full caster, light skill monkey.

>Binder
3.5, Tome of Magic, Pact Magic. The idea that it binds forgotten entities who have been removed from existence to gain their unique offered powers and drawbacks while resisting being influenced by them. Extremely versatile for both combat and utility as they select and balance different bindings. Folded into Warlock for 4th Edition.

>Crusader
3.5 Tome of Battle, Basically the heavy armored divine inspired knight of the book of weeaboo fi-tan magic. Uses a random draw of maneuvers and super toughness to lay waste to enemies while being a battlefield leader, eventually gets smite and Mettle (Con and Wis version of Evasion). Arguably doable in 5E applying the thought process behind Spell Less Ranger to the Paladin.

>Seeker
4E Controller with the Primal Power Source, basically did the duties of the Wizard as far as crowd control and affecting multiple enemies go while sharing thematic overlap with Druids.

>Rune Pries
4E a Leader Class with the Divine Power Source. This is the second instance of there being overlap of power source and role. Unsure of how it differs from the Cleric outside of its power structure utilizing runic symbols.

>Dread Necromancer
3.5 Heroes of Horror. More focused and specialized necromancer wizard that slowly itself is turning undead and can control a greater number of undead than a traditional necromancer and summon more undead and rebuke at the cost of spell diversity.

>Duskblade
A fighter mage whose special claim to fame is being able to deliver their touch spells as part of a melee attack (really mucking with the action economy) & capturing some flavor of the OG Elf Class

>Binder homebrew
Where can I find this?

Does anyone have a dungeon builder software of some kind? Not a random dungeon generator, but something that allows me to specify a room size, a tunnel size, etc.? I just need the physical outline - I can add details and whatever in Roll20.

What would you like your Favored Soul to be like? As person relatively new, I kinda like the one from UA..?

But having certain Tricks have a higher power level would then be acceptable because the level 2 Warlord isn't busting it out at-will, he's gotta wait until level 9 (or some shit). Also, you've got a few dead levels which you could use as thresholds for those more advanced Tricks.

The Haste Command is, to me, a little too risky to use since it can gimp your party heavily if you're facing smart opponents or just really unlucky. Does the Warlord also benefit from the effects?

Homebrew classes are always complete trash.
Yes that means yours too.

>Factotum
3.5 Dungeonscape, Minor healing abilities, sneak attack in a pinch, mimicking limited Wiz/Sorc spellcasting, being a skill monkey with access to ALL skills in 3.5. Int based martial skills powered by a system called Inspiration. Be a jack of all trades and master of none.

>Warden
4E, Primal Power Source Defender Role. People say it can be accomplished with the Ranger or Oath of Ancients Paladin in 5E, but your miles may vary.

>Healer
3.5 Miniatures Handbook. Basically a divine full caster with a preset spell list and sudden metamagic it can apply to those spells mostly to be a more effective heal monkey. Opposite number of the Warmage.

>Incarnate
3.5 Magic of Incarnum. A class that uses a strongly alignment based unique magic system that revolves around creating temporary magic constructs and binding them to yourself out of the great well of lives lived and yet to live called incarnum. Very diverse selection of supernatural abilities or static boosts to skills and attacks.

>Warlord
4E Martial Power Source Leader. Perfection of the wishy washy 3.5 Marshall concept. You're a fight guy who inspires allies and is all about keeping everyone's energy up to fight through injury and granting allies mobility, opportunity to attack, and the ability to overcome certain affects in a pinch.

>Shaman
4E Primal Leader. Sharing flavor space with the Druid and about healing & buffing allies and commanding summoned spirits. Consolidation of some of the ideas of the 3.5 Spirit Shaman.

>Shadowcaster
3.5 Tome of Magic, Shadow Magic. One of the sub magic systems introduced in ToM. Incomplete and broken, based around the idea that as you gain levels your earlier abilities become supernatural abilities instead of spell like and some powers have prerequisites in other powers. Spooky caster.

>Soulborn
3.5 Magic of Incarnum...basically I can only easily describe this as an Incarnum Paladin with less incarnum options than the Incarnate.

My Dragonborn Paladin died last night. The whole party is sad to see him go because he was the loveable, naive heart of the group. His goofiness made him the center of many great RP moments and the party wants me to roll a similar mascot character to keep that same dynamic. I'm not sure what to play so I am looking for any suggestions. I wanted to play a thief and the party has suggested either Goblin, Kobold, Kenku, or Tabaxi for the race.

Any suggestions for builds that encourage hijinks? Not really worried about combat optimization since we rarely do fights.

4E folded Binders' Vestiges into Warlock as potential Patrons and the names for attacks, but nothing about the 4E Warlock replicated the class at all.

The closest we've gotten to Binder post 3.5 is Mystic, if you could swap your Disciplines after every long rest. It still doesn't cover most of what the Binder does, but it's the nearest thing mechanically to "every day I become bros with 1-3 weirdgods and get an assortment of powers related to them". A Binder could be a sword-and-board heavy armor tank that breathes fire one day and a flying skillmonkey with a bow the next.

"Unless noted otherwise, all targets of your commands must be able to see or hear you, and you can target yourself with a command."
RAI, yes, commands affect the warlord.
I still don't want tricks to be too strong, but perhaps it's true that learning Distracting Flourish at level 11 isn't particularly exciting. I'll try to work on tricks that provide interesting opportunities that mesh well with high-level abilities but aren't strong by themselves.
The only truly empty level, in my opinion, is 13. Level 9 gives you access to 5-point commands, which are very powerful, and level 17 lets you spend 9 points on a command, which is the pinnacle of your "spellcasting" power. So I think I'll move the level 11 trick to level 13 once I cook up some interesting high-level ones.

I wanna know how that totemist or shaman would work out

>I roll to hit
Nice shenenigans

>Archivist
Useful but not sure where it should fit as an archetype.
>Beguiler
Can be multiclassed though thats not too fun
>Binder
Should definitely have something, that's rad as shit. A warlock who specifically seeks out the temples and shrines of dead deities or sleeping spirits to steal their shit.
>Crusader
Can be done but martials in general need more options imo. I get tired of just swinging only. Even if just some more fun equipment.
>Seeker
Meh
>Rune Priest
A cleric mixed with sorta an artificer who can put spells into objects. Could be unique depending on how it interacts with metamagic.
>Dread necro
There needs to something for necros who want to do more than skeles and zombies. Maybe another archetype specifically for making big shit.
>Duskblade
Meh, feels like pact of the blade. If only touch spells were an actual fucking thing in 5e since there are none of them.
>Factotum
Doesn't seem that great between bards and rogues
>Warden
So he heals and tanks? What offensive shit does he have?
>Healer
That seems like a boring as shit thing to be a full class or even full archetype as.
>Incarnate
Seems interesting though I'm sure many would love to forget alignment
>Warlord
Battlemaster is too much about themselves and not others to take this. Also an Int martial would be cool.
>Shaman
Seems alright though can be an archetype
>Shadowcaster
Spooky caster always fun though if it was busted before i don't quite trust em to fix it
>Soulborn
That seems much better than incarnate but is kinda rolled into oaths.

>Invoker
4E Divine Controller. Basically you are like Angel Summoner from Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit. You call down divine wrath to control the battlefield and affect multiple enemies.

>Swordmage
4E Arcane Defender. You easily pop around the battlefield with minor teleportation and fight with blade and magic in tandem to lock enemies down and keep their attention on you. Consolidation of the longstanding concept of the Fighter Mage.

>Swordsage
3.5 Tome of Battle. Lightly armored mobile. Kind of a Sword Monk who uses maneuvers that are both normal and supernatural in nature. Quick to act and pending on what martial school it focuses on gets different bonuses.

>Totemist
3.5 Magic of Incarnum. Last of the Incarnum classes. Eschews the alignment focus to make Incarnum constructs that mimic the power of MAGICAL BEASTS and NEUTRALITY OF NATURE! Allowing access to a versatile assortment of combat powers.

>Truenamer
3.5 Tome of Magic, Truename Magic. The idea that by reciting truenames you can do different things. The math surrounding this magic is kind of broken and every time you use it in a day it becomes harder to affect the same target. Bonuses for learning target creature's personal true name and with scaling lexicons of powers that are spoken to warp reality.

>Warblade
3.5 Tome of Battle. Medium Armored master of war. Can get fighter only feats at a delay and uses maneuvers and stances with the fastest refresh rate to cleave through battle and be an unconquerable barbarian, or a graceful fencer, or a tactical leader.

>Warmage
3.5 Miniatures Handbook/Complete Arcane Like the Healer, but with mostly blasty evocations and conjurations. Spontaneous caster with a preset list and sudden metamagic abilities built into the class to help it deal damage quickly and help control battlefields. Walking magical siege weapons.

>Ardent
3.5 Basically Psionic Cleric. Enveloped in psionic mantles that work kind of like cleric domains. Full manifester.

>no Shaper / Constructor
I just wanna customize my sweet ectoplasmic pal.

As much as I love Crusaders I feel there are enough options in 5e to play one, between paladin, war/tempest cleric, or zealot barb. Now that I think about it though, I really wouldn't be upset if another Righteous class was introduced.

Deus vult.

I hope they bring back the truenamer and don't fix anything. No UA stage, just release it cold to everyone's disgust.

Does casting Shillelaigh on a club which has had Continual Flame cast on it dismiss the flame?

I don't see why it would.

Tell about the OG elf class old man

Just because Paladins are Divine martials who hit things somewhat well doesn't mean they're Crusaders. The one (maybe) trick they can do with their sword based on their archetype does not replicate the variety or fun of what the ToB classes were meant to represent.

The closest you could get to them now is if you took Battlemaster on a Paladin instead of an Oath of Whatever's features.

So would the Shillelaigh be flaming too?

Casting Shillelagh on a club does not turn it into a literal shillelagh, it's just the name of a spell that empowers most blunt, wooden weapons. It wouldn't get rid of Continual Flame's illusionary fire.

So, I mean, if you really want to blow 50gp on making your stick give your party away at all times, go nuts.

>Divine Mind
3.5 Psionic...basically a half manifester that is to Ardent what Paladin is to Cleric.

>Euridite
3.5 Psionic, Closer to Wizard than a pure Psion, learns powers from other class lists and with some AFCs could turn spells into psionic powers.

>Lurk
3.5 Psionic. the second attempt to create a Psionic Skillmokey. The first was the Psychc Rogue on the WoTC website Mind's Eye Articles. Basically a sneaky rogue with psychic powers and a restrictive sneak attack. Could be a nice rogue archetype.

>Soul Knife
3.5 Psionic. This didn't know what it wanted to be. It occupied a monk kind of territory as a combat class without full BAB and revolved around enhancing a manifested energy blade of the character's will and enhancing it's accuracy and damaging abilities over time. No actual psionic power maifesting. Cool flavor wise.

>Wilder
3.5 Psionic Emotional Outburst Psion. Kind of like the psionic equivalent of the wild mage who could empower their power at the risk of backlash. Less robust power list compared to psion.

>Avenger
4E Divine Power Source Striker. Basically a divine assassin whose main rider ability made them more accurate against a single target. Flavor wise they are the zealots. Outgrown from a April Fools joke from the 3.5 WoTC website where they just took the assassin and called it Avenger and justified how it wasn't evil despite still using poison and having evil descriptor spells and being all about just murder.

In the early days of D&D, some races were classes. This is true of the Dwarf and the Elf in the Basic box of yore.

Here the Elf advanced with the combat prowess of the Warrior and the Casting of the Magic User, for a bit more Experience per level and less hit points than the warrior if memory serves me right.

Why, back in those days our D20's weren't so fancy. We had to walk 15 miles uphill both ways in the snow to get our dice. And the d20 only went from 1-10 so we rolled a d6 with it and set odds to 1-10 and evens from 11-20.

I suppose I should also say I looked at the options in more of a thematic lens. I'm not familiar with the old Crusader class and how it worked, I just think it's not too much a stretch to play any of the classes I mentioned and just say youre a crusader fluffwise.

>Invoker
getting more summons would be neat
>Swordmage
If eldritch knight were better this would already be covered though a mix of him and horizon walker ranger may do the trick
>Swordsage
Monk could cover if he had some more options
>Truenamer
Sounds like a real neat druid archetype. Get regen from a hydra or stonebreath from a gorgon.
>Warblade
Once again, martials need more options in general
>Warmage
If sorcerer had an actual design philosophy he'd already be in
>Ardent
>divine mind
>euridite
>Lurk
>Soul Knife
>Wilder
MYSTIC WHEN
I can't judge these too well without something to compare em to.
>Avenger
Covered in various oaths to varying degrees.

Again, I say to replicate the Crusader in 5E you really just need to apply the design philosphy of the Spell Less ranger to the Paladin. Not all of it of course, because you also have to figure out how to replace Smite, and some of the ranger additions are ranger themed.

Really, just give the Paladin battlemaster maneuvers and some other features to make up for the lack of spells based on the old class and you're probably golden.

I assume you meant Totemist when you wrote Truenamer, because you hit the Totemist on the head with at least one of their actual Incarnum Soulmelds of the Gorgon's Mask.

The issue is that every ToB remake involves "just give them maneuvers", which makes the Battlemaster fucking ass by comparison since the Fighter chassis is boring for the most part, and isn't fun for the other classes either because they're just "the Battlemaster variant of ______".

5E really screwed the pooch when they ditched the martial die from Next.

I did.
I would assume that truenamer would be the same but with outsiders rather than animals.

A Binder archetype for warlocks should be possible, yes.
There could be a Summoner archetype for wizards based around acquisition of minions, either through conjuration or necromancy.
I'm still of the opinion that Warlord deserves to be its own class, rather than just a Valor Bard or a suboptimal Battlemaster/Banneret Fighter.

Outside of those, there's not really much from the old editions that deserves to be imported into 5e. Most of those either exist as archetypes in 5e already or they don't deserve a class, let alone an archetype and can be represented through fluff. Then you've got a minority, like the Incarnum stuff, which is just plain weird.

Well, crusader is to my mind the most straightforward and boring of the ToB classes, even if it has access to the martial school that heals allies...it just feels like it would be a paladin with superiority dice.

That said, I always thought the battlemaster could do with more maneuvers that include level prerequisites that serve as enhanced versions of existing maneuvers either by din of multipliers or stacked affects.

>Three headed baby
That's got to be a rough birth.

>the battlemaster could do with more maneuvers that include level prerequisites that serve as enhanced versions of existing maneuvers either by din of multipliers or stacked affects
The whole thing should become a staple of martials, like spell lists are for casters, with requirements on class, level, or stats (you need X Str to do this). People say this is too much data, but it would invariably be both smaller and more simplistic than the spell lists of casters, which will continue to expand with time.

It would also help with the gish imbalance of casters-as-martials being great, but martials-as-casters being trash, mostly because casters-as-martials wouldn't be filling up with maneuvers.

If you ever end up running anything with the homebrew, let me know.
My Reddit username is SeeShark.

The difference in experience needed to get levels as an elf could be pretty astronomical depending on what class you compare them to.
They needed more than twice as much as a thief to reach level 10, their final level.

> tfw I don't have to be a rules autist to have fun

Yeah, I saw your post to the UA sub a few months ago. I thought it was better than the Tactician shit people keep posting.

How much point would there be in making a new class that is very similar to fighter, but would maybe get less attacks/ASIs and instead get archetype features that do other stuff?

I never know what to play. I really like firbolg as a race but they only seem to make sense being a Druid or ranger or something.

When you make a character, how do you decide what to play? I hate just playing a basic class. Like I would never do champion fighter. That is fuckibg dog shit and crit caters. Boring.

I wanted to try warlock but a friend said that warlocks are basically just ekdritch blast bots. That's it. Who the FUCK wants to spam one cabtrip?!

They can do other things. Believe me. While EB is the signature tool, you can do so much more, though not as often in long combats as your main spell slots are few in number, but refresh with a short rest.

It's MFoV, but it's some of their not-shit homebrew. Went ahead and used it as the racial magic of Halflings in my setting, and while I've only had one PC play with it, they found it to be a pretty good time. And again, it's not as shitty as a lot of MFoV, especially their more recent stuff.
>middlefingerofvecna.com/2016/06/book-of-binding.html

Favored Souls are literally "Cleric: the Sorcerer Version."

And official ones aren't? If the classes or archetypes are at least interesting, I'll take them any day over Champions, Beast Masters, and Four Elements.

In battle, they are EB bots. Out of battle, they are a magical rogue substitute that can solve a wide array of problems with their invocations, class features, and noncombat spells.

I just think of a race, lets say lizardfolk. Now what class would be cool and not completely crap for that class but not generic. Now we got a lizardfolk druid. So what is a feature of lizardfolk? Making crafted weapons. So now we got a boneclub wielding lizardfolk druid that bashes people's heads in.

Berzerker wouldn't be worse/much worse than other barbarians if there was no PAM or GWM
But they would be even worse than all the other classes if there was no PAM or GWM unless they go dex barbarian, in which case you don't need berzerking.

How would you rank the Rogue archetypes? Also I don't really see the benefit of the Thief archetype, what am I missing?

I don't get to play often enough for all my character ideas to see the light of day, or even enough that I can just look at a class and decide that it would be boring to play.

For experienced players:
AT > Thief > Assassin > Swashbuckler > Inquisitive Mastermind
For inexperiened players:
Swashbuckler > AT > Assassin > Mastermind > Inquisitive > Thief

Also, to explain thief, while the climbing is nice it's not really the proper attraction.

If you know what you're doing and know a suitable number of items and have the clearance from the DM, you could potentially do a lot with your bonus action. It kinda depends on your DM allowing things and introducing more items, and it also kinda depends on ignoring the stupid RAI that AT can also do things as a bonus action because 'lol, mage hand'.

Advantage on stealth is absolutely not bad at all, use magic item is again very, very DM dependent and the level 17 ability is fucking great if you ever reach it.

>AT
>anywhere but sitting on the Mastermind and Inquisitive's heads