Jumpchain CYOA Thread #1374: Steamed Hams Edition

Is Magic soul-powered, too? Does it scale with the strength of your soul?

Does I Will Surpass God only link physical and soul training or does it completely link strength and soul? If you have physical strength that lets you throw around planets, will your soul be appropriately powerful? What about if your strength is magical in nature or from a temporary boost?

Hey, that's new!

[Jump 150: Soul Eater, redux]

Drawbacks: Obsession: Order...? E̢ ̢̕S ̢̧̕C̢ ̵̸͡A͟ ͝L ̵A͡ ͘͠T͜ ̶̸͠I ̵͝Ò̴ ̸͟N̛ March of the Clowns, Something's Missing... (1600)

Rolled Baba Yaga's Castle

Student Meister, age 13

The Face (Free)
Weapon Partner Proficiency (Free)
Wavelength Communication (Free)
Declaration! (Free)
Soul Perception (1500)
Trump Card (1400)
Utility Master (1200)
I Will Surpass God! (900)
Anti-Demon Wavelength (500)
Sick Wheels (Free)
Comfortable Welcome Gift (Free)
Companion Bulk Import (200)
Witch Companion Import: Elodie (0)
-Portal Manifestation (Free)
-Levitation (Free)
-Magical Being (Free)
-Totemic: Falcons (Free)
-Arithmetic Magic (400)
-Uplift (0)
-Demon Weapon Partner: Scythe (Free)
-Backseat Driver (Free)
-Autonomous/Half Weapon (300)
-Energy Amplification (Free)
-It's a Texture Thing (Free)
-Partial Weapon Manifestation (Free)
-Alternative Ammo (Free)
-Melee Damage Alteration (Free)
-Death Dealer (0)

Something's. Something's wrong. The odds should be stacked against me! Why am I so much more powerful than I remembered?

Elodie, you're a witch not a demon weapon. That's. That's not right! Why is this Servant my demon weapon? Why are all these other Servants here!? Who are you people, and how do I KNOW YOU?!?

This power. With it I could-no. NO, that's /bad/! Concentrate. I had wings, once. Where are they?

"user. user, snap out of it. Are you okay? We were just talking about how to fight back the world's madness"
"Uh. All is lost. Humanity is doomed, they're going to destroy themselves...?"
"..."
"What?"

"user, you should take the day off. I'll just go and magic it better this afternoon, shall I?"
"Ah, but then you'll be just as bad as that witch who wants to become the personification of being eaten by spiders because you're abusing magic to-"
"-let me rephrase. I can literally WISH for more opportunities to exist where people can make the world a better place, thus not interfering with free will but increasing the aggregate level of happiness. What's wrong with that again?"
"Well there's still great old ones, they're all doomed in the end and-"
"-and that's where you come in. Help me mass produce demon weapon-noble phantasms so humanity as a whole can figuratively drain the big top"
"It's not that simple, I-"
"Hey user I don't want to interrupt but I am literally a weapon made for killing madness monsters. Wanna go beat up some great old ones?"
"IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE"

And then I backflip out of a window to escape the terrifying responsibility.

What is happening?! I don't remember being a divine words user!! Where's this limitless magical energy within me coming from? I'm trying to run away-and it's only then I realise /these tentacles are moving on their own/

No. What am I becoming. What if I am t̀h́e͜ k̵ishi̵n̷ òf ęscal͟a̛t̨ion̸ going to succumb to madness in the future and the monster I ha͜vę̸ ̵à̴̷l͠w̢a̷y̴s͘ ̵b́e̴͞e̡͘n̵̡ will become is changing my past to È̵͠V̸̶͝Ò̶͜͡͝L̨̀̀V̴̵̡̢̀E̕̕,̡̧͜͝ ̷̀͟T̷̷H̨͞Á͞T̛̀ ̷̢I̶Ś̀ ̢͘H̵̸̕Ó̴͝Ẃ̸̡͝ ̸̛A̶̴̡ ̶̵̕͞D̛Ŕ̡͞I̷̛͘L̸̢̕͟L̸̢͢͠͡ ̴̡̕Ẁ̕͜Ó̷̀͝R̴̸͡͞K̡̛S̵̛͟͝͡ preserve its' future?

...

Nah, that's crazy talk! Crazy, you hear me?! STOP JUDGING ME EXCALIBUR, I CAN FEEL YOUR LITTLE SWORD EYES JUDGING MY SOUL.

...I should probably go back to school now. Panic attack. Yeah. Too many run-ins with the insane clown posse.

Í-͝I̡'l̕l͠͠ ͘m̶̴-m͞an̢̡à͝ge̢̢

→
Make magic work like it does in lore, instead of using the MTG supplement on the drive.

To the person doing the mtg eldrazi I request a pack of 15 squirrels that are stronger than they appear.

Magic gets better through a combination of study, research and a stronger soul. So in a way, yeah, it scales up with your soul.

The perk is focused on training instead of a direct link, though if your physical training involves bench-pressing planets or whatever you would probably see sick soul gains over time just the same. Artificially increasing your physical parameters won't really help for the reasons stated above.

So many good ideas, though some I may not be able implement.

Are there any perks that allow a fusion of two people? Preferably without a limited duration.

Kami stuff like the Dragon Spirits and the Kirin Spirits?

A surreal form for Kami (preferably as a perk free for them, so the other races can get a surreal altform too).

Magic like that of the mages of Minamo Academy and monks Jukai Forest, in addition to the Sokenzan Mountains guys?

A disc to seal things in, like That Which Was Taken?

Ninjutsu stuff. Ninjas are best.

Potara Earrings from one of the DBZ Jumps is permafusion. Steven Universe fusion can be sustained indefinitely between two individuals with good compatibility but is highly temporary between clashing personalities. That's all I got.

Isn't Kamigama the one with Tetsuo? The guy who fucked up Oldwalker Bolas? Maybe something for helping you slay godlike beings?

The Steven Universe one sounds good, thanks Nubee.

No problem.

Why does purchasing Monster Cat lock us into choosing a plant for our magical theme? I really like the perk, but this kinda sucks.

I dont remember that, I do remember nights reach myojin yanked him from kamigawa but blinded him before dumping him in another world.

This is the set I started with, nostalgia's in full effect when suggesting stuff.

Make it a good one. I'm looking forward to seeing what you'll get.

No. Tetsuo's older lore (I think?), and much later in the timeline.

He lives around 400 years /after/ the Kami War, and on another plane entirely (Dominaria).

But he's descended from Toshiro, who's a Kamigawa native during the war. Before getting displaced to Dominaria after it, starting the clan that would eventually spawn Tetsuo there.

Blair has Halloween Magic stemming from her Pumpkin theme, which is different from any Witch's magic at least thematically.

But there's no basis in canon for that, isn't there? We have a sample size of exactly one. It's just as likely that Blair was simply an outlier.

What kind of life have you created, Jumpers?

>This is the set I started with, nostalgia's in full effect when suggesting stuff

My Bro!

I wonder if there could be a way to put That which was Taken into the jump, maybe as a buy item that grants divinity or gives a kami form or something.

One of friendship and violence.

Oh, alright then. My knowledge of older MtG lore is extremely sketchy.

Yeah, but it could just as easily be said that Blair is a unique existence all together since we never see another magical cat in the series. Since I decided to include the race despite that since she's part of the main cast of characters, and I only have her to look towards, I gotta use what I can from her. It might be just as likely that Blair was an outlier, but why would I actively ignore my one source?

Witches have animal themes, Free despite not being a Witch has an animal theme (whether it's because Mabaa's theme is Wolves or he developed his own chant after getting magic is up in the air), Blair's theme and chant are pumpkins so being a Monster Cat gives you a Flora theme instead of a Fauna theme.

>older MtG lore
>kamigawa

that feel when you started during Ice Age and Homelands...

I understand where you're coming from, but it looks like I'll have to fanwank this. Blair took the only plant that had a good thematic connection with cats.

Build Time!
----------------------------------------------------
>>Pacific Rim (1000) (113)
Identity (28 y/o)
1000>Rolled 5- Vladivostok -000
0800>Ranger -200
Skills
0800>Djwadi's Favor -000
0800>Drift Compatability (Free Ranger) -000
0500>Solo Pilot (Discount Ranger) -300
Items
0500>Flare Gun (Free Ranger) -000
0500>Jaeger (Free Ranger) -000
0200>Mysterious Blueprints (Discount Ranger) -300
Jaeger Loadout
0100>Flex Joints -100
0000>Stabilizing Fins -100
-050>Hardened Hull -050
-100>Sound System -050
-150>Brass Knuckles -050
-200>Roll of Nickels -050
-250>Piston Punch -050
-400>Elbow Rocket -150
-600>Sting Blades -200
Drawbacks
-300>Top of the Wall +300
-100>Trying to Stacker the Deck, Are You? +200
0000>Kaiju Groupie +100
----------------------------------------------------
Human crusade into Anteverse. Robots and kaiju kicking ass. Media sensation. Full writefagging here
hopchain.wordpress.com/2017/03/05/jump-113-pacific-rim/

Catnip is a type of mint. Why not have mint as your plant?

You befriended the fuck out of everybody?

Haven't jumped into Symphogear yet, might at some point since I'm doing a Magical Girl-themed Chain this time. However, here's where I've gotten the girls so far in terms of MG-ness.

> Busujima Saeko
Recently took her to Fairy Tail (like today recently) so, I'm still unsure about her magic and stuff. She's gonna be the bruiser though.

> Nitta Io
So far all she has is Demon Summoning, that I've only enhanced with a trip to DS1, planning on going to SMT soonish.

> Tomoe Mami
The only natural MG, but decided to make her even better. Dropped into Lyrical Nanoha where she picked up all the main magic systems, but started with Mid-Childan.

> Tohsaka Rin
Our time in Neo-Heisei Pt.2 had her picking up methods to make magic stones and wizard rings.

> And Me! (Totally a girl, sometimes, when I want)
Major stuff on my side is magic from Cardcaptor, the First Magic, Cosmic Energy, SOLU, and an instinct to blend them all together into something more.

Currently, my plans include giving us all Aura, The Force, and MAYBE some form of divinity. Still uncertain about that last one though, however, it would make getting Mami her Brush Techniques a little easier, but I do like the idea of people working for their power-ups.

Oh, right, future plans for completely unique powers/abilities:

> Mami
Brush Techniques
> Saeko
Holy/Light-related Stuff
> Io
The Maleficium. Runes galore. Magical Languages basically? idk.
> Rin
No idea honestly.

That'd be cool, yeah. Probably not the actual That Which Was Taken straight out of Honda's hands, but a copy or something similar would be cool.

The capstone booster's apparently already going to be a Sisters of Flesh and Spirit kinda thing too.

Ehh, but then I've got the problem of coming up with abilities for mint, probably something to do with cleanliness and smell. Whereas abilities for various animals are already established.

You could look up the Myths and Legends involving Mint or the occult connotations.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minthe

I wish you luck whatever you end up doing. I'd suggest taking some of the suggestions people have to give too, but that's mostly because I have a lot of fun with the fabrication stuff here and there and plants offer fun prompts that animals don't.

Mostly hybrids of various animals and creatures. Squittens a cute.

Though there's the occasional original mixed in for specific purposes, like the species of small, cute, cat/deer-like butlers I created to serve me (and guests) drinks.

Also various monsters, behemoths, and abominations of nature, science, and genesis engineering to experiment with or use as weapons/pets or acquire as something to shapeshift into.

A cursory search shows stuff about hospitality, healing, smell, cleaning, and mind clearing. Sure, I could create some neat abilities with those things as a basis, but it doesn't really fit for Soul Eater witches.

Still, I ilke the update nonetheless. Good job.

I understand, thanks either way.

...

Ah well I started around the time when the Lorwyn Five were introduced and that was... shit, I guess that was ten years ago this year.

question mix-and-match and mechanical weapon Don't provide an Additional weapon form Do they?

it seems like you're pretty much required to eat the souls of other weapons to gain their forms with several of these perks unless you take multiple weapon transformation . Was this intentional?

The kind that touches divinity through the seamless fusion of science, mysticism and pure will! But enough about my ex-wife. This thins was more a design concept than anything, although it is quite effective on the battlefield. Although it's so angry the piloted had to be genetically engineered too; you can't see it, but there's a smaller, humanscale Godzilla on the inside.

Aw damn it, I wanted to claim kamigawa but I wanted to finish my magic school bus jump first.

Toshiro Umezawa is huge in the books, the first black mana "hero" and the most important human in the three books.

So, Toshiro Umezawa as a companion, his jitte as an item, and his kanji magic as a power seem like mandatory perks to me.

if you have an ogre origin, mabey give them a discount on the blood magic Hidetsugu used?
or if ogres are to overpowered to be a purchasable race, make it a drop in choice?

Hidetsugu was also the biggest connection to the oni, summoning them, and eventually fusing with one, so mabey have a oger perk be the connection to oni.

I would definitely like more lands and Hondens, mabey an option to by the normal 5, and one connected to the jumper themselves/ ability to make them? (is it just for nights reach that her honden is in a pocket dimension?)

seconding the patronage of a kami as a perk.

a background where you are a kami, or a perk for drop-in where you can act as and enter the Kamis word.

the god of the entire realm is a shut in that hates outsiders, so a drawback were it/ or your own kami hates you for entering.

Mabey a smaller drawback were the kami of your equipment try and fight you if you miss treat them?

Neo-yokai, Which are basically monsters of the week from a Super Sentai/Kamen Rider show as a species. I also have have installed in my Ar Tonelic Tower devices based on SCP-2000's Bright/Zartion Hominid Replicators. Essentially allowing me to create thousands of a particular sapient model if I so desire in a short period of time.

this is going to be a list
several true AI
a lot of diseases and viruses
a lot of new kinds of plants
around a dozen zurg strains
I've got a kid
a few thousand Mutuaist Omnics

What D&D spell could I use to cure someone's blindness?

dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Remove_Blindness/Deafness

cure disease ,heal moderate wound,and wish

Well that's convenient.

You can claim multiple jumps. Remember that next time.

>Kami Stuff
There are two perks per Race, just like how I did in the Minish Cap Jump (That means I'm going to be making a whooping 14 perks for races alone, wow that's scary to me)

>A surreal form for Kami
Basically the freebie of Kami Racial.

>Magic like that of the mages of Minamo Academy and monks Jukai Forest, in addition to the Sokenzan Mountains guys?
The Yamabushi is all magic users other than a select few. It's going to cover Spirit Magic, Duplication Mages, and the Mountain Hermit.

>A disc to seal things in, like That Which Was Taken?
This might be possible.

I know that feel.

Maybe I'll take a note out of Genius-user and a few other Jumpmakers books and offer something like this for the copy of The Which is Sealed

Yep.

Toshiro is basically my entire Drop-In Tree. Skilled at prep to the point of Batman-ing at points, Kanji Magic is hellishly useful/flexable/powerful, talking the perk is must have, and the patronage despite problems perk.

Hidetsugu is the base for my ogre and some of my Yamabushi perks.

Kami and Ogre are both Races.

Lands and Hondens are a neat idea.

>There are two perks per Race, just like how I did in the Minish Cap Jump
That sounds good for the normal Races, but Kami are /very/ different from the mortal races.

I don't think two perks does that justice. And basically none of the mentioned backgrounds would actually fit them, aside from Drop-In by default.

So, I would suggest giving them a full background for themselves at least?

>(That means I'm going to be making a whooping 14 perks for races alone, wow that's scary to me)
But it's pretty big, yes. Also, that should be 16 then with the seven you mentioned earlier.

Because you will NOT forget Kitsune. Fluffy tails must be there!

>The Yamabushi is all magic users other than a select few. It's going to cover Spirit Magic, Duplication Mages, and the Mountain Hermit.
Hm. The name's a little odd then, but otherwise that sounds good.

The other stuff mentioned sounds excellent.

Soul eater
+100CP: Slapstick
+300CP: March of the Clowns
+200CP: Obsession: Monique
rolled 5: Baba Yaga's Castle.
Student demon weapon free

rolled age 8+2 = 10
Free Perk: The Face
Autonomous weapon-300 discount for demon weapon
Energy Amplification free
"It's a texture thing." Free
Partial Weapon Manifestation free
Mundane Weapon Form: sawed-off 12 gauge shotgun free
Alternative Ammo" (Free): yes
mechanical weapon: it's an automatic -100 chosen discount
mix-and-match -200 chosen discount
multiple weapon transformation: chainsaw, pile bunker , M134 Minigun , drill-600
Soul Resonance Finisher -300 chosen as discount
Import Monique as partner -100
Death's List , free with weapon
Forest Hot Spring free for weapon

Monique
Free Perk: The Face
Free Perk (Meister Only): Weapon Partner Proficiency
Wavelength Communication Free for Student Meister
Anti-Demon Wavelength -400 Discount for Student Meister
Stylish Outfit Free for Student Meister.
Stolen Witch's Eye: mantis shrimp: telekinetic rams -200
one girl,one chainsaw, one romance, one Castle,1000 witches!, No I don't believe this will take more than a month, but a month-long fight scene followed by the rest of the series should be pretty cool , Monique and I are going to be calling ourselves Ashley and William for the duration of this jump, because of reasons. fortunately for me, she likes a attentive man.#

Head to Nanoha and pick up a Device- those things are pretty damn sweet as far as casting magic goes. With enough practice you can start slinging magical wave-motion cannon blasts around like a one person rave of lasers.

I've been refining my Zerg swarm for a long time- now they look more or less like Tyranid. Adding magical creature DNA into the mix gave them access to elements, so now they have a bio-morph for every occasion.

The Nidhoggr-pattern remains my favorite.

If I combine Special Ability and Organic Weapon, could I make a staff or spear that streches amd twists?

>human scale
That's where you went wrong

Since someone said to try posting it again later when more people were around, any constructive feedback would be nice.

Would a fungus-based theme be OK as a magi-cat?

Puffball would be an option great for "spore" type magic. Spread status buffs and de-buffs, fuel-air explosions, stuff like that.

The Sandbox Tree is another option- it has exploding fruit and is covered in spines. You could have an "armor" spell that covers you in magical spikes, and grenade spells of varying intensity patterned after the tree's seeds. You could get flash-bangs, shrapnel, smoke, poison, fire, etc. type explosions too.

The Manchineel tree is another option, from it's sap to it's fruit it is extremely toxic. Hell, it's sap outright causes severe chemical burns if it touches skin. With this theme you could go for a poison/acid build- launch globs of sticky and poisonous acid, launch exploding globes that spread the stuff in mist or waves, etc.

Those are just some suggestions, there's a whole lot of really weird plants out there.

While I understand laputan tech is impressive is there really a reason to make the caps on things 800? You basically cannot afford your own perk lines as is.

That was one of the things I'd been considering, dropping those down to 600. I just haven't made changes since earlier this morning.

You wouldn't need the combo, that could be achieved by either one individually unless you're talking some absurd levels of stretching and twisting.

Yeah, I'll give the pass on fungus being usable for cats. Sounds like a real cool magic.

Sandbox Tree is one of my personal favorites, I talk about that fucking thing whenever I get the chance even outside this context. In this context it's a mountain of ideas, and that's before we even get into metaphors or vague relations.

The Macnhineel Tree sounds super cool too, would allow for some real terrifying spells.

I created a 10th dimensional dog that projected a cat as a 3d shadow.

Use the Gympie Tree and bitchslap everyone.

Slime.

Digimon that are made from the data of Digimon video games, then turned into the female humanoid representation of said games through Hyperdimension Neptunia.

Explain. How does neptunia allow you to do that?

Is this capstone booster actually justified in-setting, or are you just adding it for the lulz? Because the only thing that even comes close to resembling a capstone booster is a Spark, and that's a big no for obvious reasons. Personally, it seems like it'd be better if you just incorporated the boosted effects into the perks themselves, instead of trying to shoe-horn in a capstone booster where it doesn't belong.

Not him but in setting certain things can give you a massive power boost, for example toshiro has a spell that lets him blend into the shadows and go invisible. After getting blessing of the myojin of nights reach this power makes him be able to not exist basically he is completely disconnected from the world around him while still being able to do stuff.

Another part toshiro is casting a spell for speed iirc and needs to boost it, he acts like he is going to cut the princess head off causing her to break down in tears. Tears of a princess is a rare hard to get ingredient so it boosts his to have speed to speeds similar to the flash for a bit.

Honestly, I don't see why a Planeswalker's Spark would be a big deal for an MtG jump to offer. The Spark you get for an endjump reward isn't really the same thing. Even an Oldwalker Spark is something different, because they still can't travel out of their local multiverse. It would be strong, yeah, but I think it's at least potentially possible to balance. Really, at this point the only reason anyone considers Sparks as banned is because we've been using the term "Spark" for the endjump reward for so long that they've become conflated in our minds.

>Jumpers
>Worrying about what a shitty goddess says

Getting blessings from oni or kami in setting legitimately grants you a huge boost to your skills or abilities and often times to your magic as well. Oni tend to boost physical prowess more and kami magical. This is probably because kami seem to be more finesse based and oni are more brute force based.

No I mean literally how does it do that? I haven't seen the jump.

Oldwalker sparks basically give you the power to do basically anything, at least limit it to the shitty newwalker version and use it for travel between dimensions in your current jumps multiverse and not to other jumps and such.

>The power to do anything

M:tG is not the most powerful magic system by far.

Most long term jumpers are far more powerful that any Oldwalker.

>Oldwalker sparks basically give you the power to do basically anything
No they don't. Oldwalkers had immense potential due to an instinctive understanding of magic, but they still needed to practice to refine that magic and to be able to gather larger amounts of magical energy to fuel it. They also couldn't simply wish things into existence, making something powerful still required considerable effort and resources.

True but old walkers have the canon ability to create entire planes of existance simply by force of will. Warp reality with their thoughts too. I am not saying they are the strongest ever just that the old spark is pretty damn good, the only people that I remember actually being able to bother an oldwalker is yawgmoth and even he had a push from an oldwalker to get started. Oldwalkers also had no problems just popping from dimension to dimension, new walkers have troubles just going one plane over thanks to the new blind eternities being fucky.

Either way its just my personal opinion so its not like its a binding oath or anything.

Only two planeswalkers are known to have created their own plane, Serra and the dead planeswalker who created what Yawgmoth would eventually turn into Phyrexia. And in both cases it's implied to have been something extremely difficult that consumed lots of effort and resources. Urza collapsed Serra's Realm into the Weatherlight's power core rather than make his own universe to put in it, and Rath's creation (done by Yawgmoth, not a planeswalker, so proof it's not a unique power of theirs) was the work of generations of magitech engineering. They're not even very big planes, either. They're planet-sized pocket universes, not full cosmoses.

Yeah, a Neowalker spark would be fine and would even be fitting as something like a capstone booster or a Drop-In capstone booster for an MtG jump.

An Oldwalker Spark is pretty far above everything else in MtG, though. Only things on the same tier are Yawgmoth, Eldrazi, OG Elder Dragons, and beings like Akrona who are essentially avatars of an entire Plane. Oh and Marit Lage, but we know jack all about her. Even if it costed your whole budget with drawbacks it'd still be a OTB.

Well they do get a power boost simply by Sparking and seem to be able to just yank some mana out of the Aether.

You're massively wanking what they're capable of, though. They still use spells and creating Planes is still a huge fucking deal for Oldwalkers.

Three, actually. Karn created Mirrodin.

Four if you count Bolas' meditation plane.

Five if you count Bolas' splitting Alara up into Shards, but that's kinda a stretch.

Dude.
What about a Cordyceps theme?
Armies of fungus-zombies.

Goin to bed, answerin questions later, you all have a nice day

A neowalker spark for an undiscounted 800 or 1000 CP would be neat.

Nah, Karn created Mirrodin in the sense of the thing filling the space, but the plane was pre-existing. Karn just took an empty bit of the multiverse and put a giant machine-world there. Not the same thing as creating an entire plane ex nihilo. Bolas' meditation plane might count, though it's pretty small.

What's the most powerful magic system in the chain?

I'm torn between Hero BBS and Mage: the Awakening (post-spark)

GET OUTTA HERE H.C.F.!

Karn created Mirrodin.

What jumps are best for hording books, movies, vidya, and various other media things for those times when you just want to hang out in the warehouse for extended periods?

No, Karn took an already-existing plane, reshaped it into a world of metal, and then called it Mirrodin. That's not the same thing as creating it.

Hyperdimension neptunia can get you loads of vidya games.

Demons of astlan and ngnl can get some awesome libraries.

I dont know of anything with movies but maybe if you went to a jump set in the future you could pirate all of the movies from there.

Didn't he also put giant mana suns into its orbit?

Creating life is kind of my hobby. I make all sorts of things, from new Sapient Races to inhabit worlds, to various kinds of planets and animals, to more fantastical stuff like making Dragons/Drakes in settings that don't have them.

Then of course there are the....experiments. We don't talk about those.