Naval Wargames General

That was NEA. I'll rummage around and see if I can't find the latest version he posted, but if I can't, he can usually be summoned up either in /btg/ or /hwg/ pretty easily.

General Quarters 3 is approaching crunchy, and will scratch your tables and optional rules itch, but it's still designed for larger engagements than NEA's system.

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Predominantly or wholly DD on DD surface actions like the Battle of Ushant or the Battles of Narvik are probably my favourite ones of the war, both historically speaking and to play out in wargaming.

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I'm giving some thought to campaign rules for Fear Naught, but since my background is low figure-count skirmish wargames like FiveCore and Saga, I'm drawing a bit of a blank.

What sort of things do you guys feel are important in a naval campaign?

I actually wouldn't mind a system focussing on a single ship or squadron/flotilla/force. Kind of a Five Ships in the North Sea thing, with a small core force supplemented with Support rolls for more, the bigger each mission, the more support rolls available.

In general, I'd want the same things I want from any campaign, a clear goal/objective (even if it's unrealistic to have one it really helps make the games more dramatic and gets you invested), some sense of escalation and progression, and consequences for actions in previous games, both positive and negative. Ie, any time a ship takes major damage to a system you roll after the game and there's a chance the damage becomes chronic as repairs fail to find/fix something important, and that system either becomes more vulnerable to damage in the future or the ship suffers some kind of debuff etc.

Posted a report for a playtest of a Battle of Cape Spada scenario for Naval War. It's a fun system, and if you're into WWII naval combat, you should go check it out.

>all this pedophilia

That's along the lines of what I was thinking. A small squadron of ships on detached operations.

Was thinking about using tour/cruise length and/or tonnage sunk as an objective.

Might be interesting to add Colliers and ammo tenders somehow as well.

I've got rules for auxiliary vessels in the game, just need a resupply mechanism. Potentially could have a logistics roll each campaign turn, modified by the area of operations and distance from the home base.

That's a bit flat though, could bear some kind of choice/gamble which offers easier/quicker/better etc. resupply at the risk of ending up in a mission where your supply ships are at risk.

I like the idea of making it a risk/reward mechanism. I think it'd be pretty crucial to keeping the campaign fun.

Perhaps the squadron composition gives you a supply rating. Squadrons of long range cruisers are gonna have a better rating than some capital ships.

The supply rating dictates how many turns you can operate before resupply; campaign events might boost/lower this, capturing hostile logistics ships/merchants might also increase this.

Logistics check gives the chance of adding new support ships, experimental weapons, new captains?, or a debuff to ammunition (to represent poor quality shells or torpedoes), or fighting a battle to protect your own supply ships.

So I keep seeing Naval Wargames General and I've noted ya'll are mostly about WW1/WW2 stuff.

Any suggestions about Age of Sail, though?

Wooden Ships and Iron Men is a classic. I'd love to give that a try, as well as Frigate and Fire as She Bears, but I just haven't had the time yet. From the /hwg/ OP

mediafire.com/folder/lx05hfgbic6b8/Naval_Wargaming#qxvsagn2yxmam

Close Action. Accept no substitutes.

Found it, but I don't know if it's the most recent pass or not.

I think a better way to represent it would be a roll to get your supply ships to arrive that round, the chances being lower the further away you are from bases and the less supply ships left available to you, but you can increase the chance of them arriving by taking a number of risks. E.g, willing to meet in inclement weather's a +1, in enemy contested water another +1, enemy controlled water a +2 but maybe if you succeed by a margin less than the bonus or on an odd number, some kind of semi-random system, you have to roll another 'misfortune' dice which might give you a number of results like:
> Tense resupply, the men were on edge the whole time, but the operation seems to have gone off without a hitch despite all the odds.
> Refueling interrupted, only regain 1/2 your supply rating" "rations lost, your crew gets a debuff until a successful resupply
> Contaminated propellant charges, ROF limited to preserve ammuntion stores
> Disaster! One of your supply ships is lost to *rough seas* *a mine* *a U-boat* etc.
> Ambush! An enemy raiding force spotted you while resupplying, make sure your vital supply ships escape.

That kind of thing, you could even tailor the misfortune flavour text to the risk/s taken. That and make sure that supply ships are absolutely vital to any campaign and precious, delicate flowers, so players won't take the risks lightly.

> Refueling interrupted, only regain 1/2 your supply rating" "rations lost, your crew gets a debuff until a successful resupply
Should be two seperate lines.

>implying destroyers are lolis and not shortstacks

They're short and skinny with their low block coefficient, so they're lolis.

Various monitors and coastal defense ships would be a better fit for shortstacks desu.

>That's not a ship! It's trees in disguise!

>seriously contemplating buying a DesDiv worth of Matsus strictly for offsetting AA capacity when moving in formation
Feels kind of bad, but at least they're more substantial than the Butlers.

You wouldn't lewd a helpless German cruisers.

>German cruisers in compromising situations

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What system?

WATCH ME

In the market, as it were. Partly it's a decision based on the limited options for escorting capital ships and the realization that Akizukis can't realistically carry a task group. I figure most systems worth learning will demand that a WWII era force should have decent AA and ASW.

So I've come up with a list of stations for Fear Naught's campaign system.

>North Atlantic
>South Atlantic
>North Pacific
>South Pacific
>Baltic Sea
>Black Sea
>Mediterranean Sea
>North Sea
>Indian Ocean
>Arctic Ocean
>Arabian Sea
>Bering Sea

I'm thinking about grouping them and then quantifying the distance between them so it feeds into the resupply system.

Always loved those "oblelisk" superstructures.

>Implying this prevents them from having massive warheads
>Implying they can't be both
Ships that cannot hold 30 knots need not apply to my fleet.

So aside from Dystopian Wars, are there any other alternate history naval games?

There was Uncharted Seas (RIP) and the GW Specialist Games game whose name I can't recall that were both fantasy games. Avalanche Press has some hex and chit based alternate takes on WWII. I'm sure there are more.

Minis or hex&chit? There's a shit ton of hex&chit.

Never paid attention to them before. Kind of reminds me of poor old De Ruyter though.

Uncharted Seas was alternate history? I thought it was generic elves & dwarves fantasy?
I'll check out Avalanche Press then, cheers.

Was mostly interested in minis, but if there's some cool steampunk, weird war 2, etc naval boardgames I would be interested in them too.

There may be a shared design lineage between the two. I remember the Osprey for KM CLs being good.

No, it's fantasy, and I said as much.

It is pretty good. I've got a special place in my heart for K-class cruisers and the Leipzigs.

Oh, yeah you did, my bad.

No biggie, I do the same thing too sometimes.

Most of the minis have been mentioned already. There's another called "Ironclads & Ether Flyers" by GDW. You can find it any Space:1889 trove. While it's Victorian sci-fi/steampunk with the usual flying battleships & zeps, you can build/fight more normal naval vessels too.

Hex&chit examples include Avalanche's many GWAS titles. There's a 30's Plan Orange one, a US vs Kaiser in the Caribbean one, and many others.

7 Seas to Victory is another title about Germany beats France in 1915/War in the Atlantic w/ UK, US, Germany & "allies" later.

XTR published a game about the US vs. Nazis/ Japan attacking the Panama Canal. I can't remember the name though.

BGG will have many more titles.

The guys at combinedfleet had one, IIRC.

Escort bump.

>I heard about a really wild beach party somewhere in Africa, wanna come?

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What do gunboats count as? Oppai lolis? They're smaller than some DDs but have bigger guns.

So, my boyfriend and I have been playing General Quarters for a while (I'm British, he's Italians), and for some reason, the Italians always end up getting wiped out. I'm not a master player, and he isn't bad- he never has the problem when playing Japanese. Is there some weakness Italians have against gunfire, or is it just luck?

Anyone know of the ancient Jedko boardgame Victory at Sea?

Found a copy, looks pretty, but I wonder if it's decent.

That is just Italians being Italians.

Can someone explain the mechanics of these sorts of games to me? I'm coming off a knowledge of WHFB, 40k, WM/H, and a little BFG.

Do you buy armies for points, or is it playing out historical scenarios? Are games
i-move, you-move? Do you use realistic strategy, or do you end up with post WW2 ships fighting in broadsides?

Are the games actually fun, or is it more about reliving the history?

You're aware that the answer for most of your questions is "depends on game and people that play it"?

They're as varied as any other spectrum of wargaming, with different rulesets having similar or very different approaches to each of those areas.

As for actually fun, I can only speak for myself but I certainly enjoying playing Naval War with mates.

Historical scenarios tend to be pretty lopsided affairs, so most systems include a points system of some description to let you at least attempt to field "balanced" forces. It can still be fun to do try to run a scenario, particularly if you can agree on some kind of doable victory condition for whoever is playing the inferior side. It can be fun to try to scrape a win out of an otherwise terrible situation.

Some systems are alternating activations, while others are a bit like X-Wing (if you're familiar) in that you both secretly plot your movement and it is all resolved at once. Likewise gunfire is planned first and done on a ship by ship basis, but the damage takes effect simultaneously after the shooting phase ends.

You'll pick up some history as you play, and finding out the stories of the ships you're choosing to represent can be really fun. For most people, it seems like it's an important component, but not the be all end all. But it's really no different from any game. If the fluff doesn't interest you, it's not going to pull you in as much, no matter how good the mechanics are.

And yeah, sometimes you want to recreate the entire orders of battle for huge battles. Sometimes you just want to watch a ship eat five torpedoes to the face and be utterly vaporized. And there is easily room to do both.

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Anybody got collection pics or in-progress modelling pics to post?

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Red Sea could be another station, presuming of course that it doesn't fall under Mediterranean or Indian Ocean.

Nothing up-to-date sadly. Still working on a 1:2400 IJN force though.

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Kinda shitty quality, but here's an overview of my collection at the start of the year.

It has expanded some since, including a US BB, more US cruisers and a few extra US destroyers as the latest focus.

Gotta love those port side superstructures on Akagi & Hiryuu.

What about a Gulf/Caribbean station?

pretty lush

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Do we have a link to a rule the waves torrent? 35 bucks is a tad steep for this poor.

Not that I know of, but it seems to go on sale decently regularly.

>mfw I just realized that the Consim Press sub games are named after Blair's books on the WW2 sub war
It's even worse because I have the goddamn books and never put two and two together until today.

>tfw no S-boats in Silent Victory
Well, I guess the Porpoise-class is close enough.

It's a shame it's priced so much like a wargame. Its appeal is much broader than the small audience the pricing model suggests, IMO.

Anyway somebody said there was a copy on rutracker

>not ready to pay $35 for a custom waifu boat creator that can amuse you for hundreds of hours

>hundreds of hours
>not thousands

Your poor, poor waifu ... must be hell to be so neglected ...

>decide to take a Tambor instead because I want to actually sink something
>first patrol Dec 41, first transit box, random event, Ultra Intercept, treat as capitol ship encounter
>it's Kaga

>mfw I basically stumbled across the Kido Butai as they're heading home
I lack a smug Tambor boteslut, so here's a moderately smug Rickover.

>go for an night surface attack at close range because I doubt I'd kill her without the extra rear torps
>7/10 torps on target, 4 duds, first of the hits rolls max damage, second is enough to send her under, third is just overkill
>ensuing escort attack and repeated attempts to exceed test depth leave me with just two hull boxes left, two electric motors damaged, one diesel damaged, dive planes out, batteries damaged, half the fore tubes and all the aft tubes out, and a handful of injuries among the crew
>getting fucking nervous because they're now at detects on 5+ and exceeding test depth to push that to 6+ is now over 50% chance of instant death
>escort detection then hilariously fucks up by rolling snake eyes and I slip away

I mean, I'm gonna have to abort this patrol here because there's no fucking way I'm gonna continue the mission with just two hull boxes left, and the Tuna's gonna need to spend the next three months getting repaired, but that was fucking amazing. I got damn lucky with the escort damage though, they never got more than 2 hits in any round, and the early hits were mostly stuff that didn't effect damage or detection rolls.

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Sounds like one of those missions that would end up being made into a patriotic film or at least used as war propaganda.

It is a propagandist's wet dream. Victory against impossible odds (BUORD FUCKING SHITS), revenge for Pearl Harbor, and nobody died (on our side, at least). Needs a catchy name, though.

If it weren't highly anachronistic, I'd say the headline would read "Spicy Tuna Rolls Big Meatball." I wish I had the money to pick up a copy. Games that generate narrative like that are so cool.

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Just get it for VASSAL. It's what I did.

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Wow... that's what wargames are all about.

I had a similar situation playing Microprose's Silent Service II MANY years ago. Started Dec 7th, 1941 in Manila in an old S-boat with shit torps and all the other historical/reality functions turned on. (What can I say, I'm a masochist.)

Patrolling around the PI results in nothing, I pull into Manila once before it falls, and eventually I'm trying to reach Australia before my fuel runs out. I'm running the strait between Java and Sumatra at night when all hell breaks loose. My lookouts didn't see TWO carriers doing 30+ knots until they're well within 1000 yds and I'm INSIDE the destroyer screen. (It's the 2nd week in April '42, guess who is returning from the IO raid.)

I crash dive, fire twice at the lead carrier and twice at the trailing one. As I'm trying to bring my sole stern tube to bear, all the torps hit & explode. I don't bother with the stern tube, go deep and start to creep instead. The IJN TF is steaming so fast I'm out of their "footprint" fairly quickly and the game returns to the strategic display after telling me I somehow SANK both CVs and got the MoH. (Sure. Right.) Everything took ~20 minutes and seemed like 20 seconds.

Later I figure the torps must have hit at an extreme angle, the CVs were ~5 degrees of my starboard bow when I spotted them. FWIU, the contact exploded failed most often with straight on hits because the pin guides weren't strong enough. Were those glancing hits and their results realistic? I don't think so, but I know the game that day managed to scare the shit out of me.

And isn't that level of "immersion' why we play?

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What kind of firing arcs did these turrets have?

This is the Yamato with the 1941 gun layout.

Okay, you've got me beat. Two carriers in an S-boat is fucking crazy. You're the accidental god of submariners.

Can't imagine they'd be able to fire to the fore without causing some kind of concussive damage, even if they're just secondaries. Then again, a lot of spaghetti BB's had their secondaries in a similar arrangement, so dunno for sure.

The Yamato had a shitload of armor.