Looking for d20 games that deviate from the standard rules/conventions in some meaningful way
Examples may include:
>armor as DR
>magic has meaningful cost for the caster (e.g. materials, sacrifices, madeness or deformity)
>weapon proficiencies as skills
>classless/point-buy
>realistic combar (for a d20 system)
>good grappling rules
>good downtime activities/travel mechanics
>spell/power crafting
>non kitchen-sink
>more/less/differente attributes
Fantasy Craft.
Iron Heroes is an interesting if very flawed game which does a lot of the stuff you're looking for.
You're looking for Symbaroum.
>armor as DR
In Symbaroum the players roll all the dice. When you are attacked, you roll to dodge-- if you fail, you roll your armor value to ablate damage.
>magic has meaningful cost for the caster
Each spell you cast builds up "Corruption". Once you cross a threshold your body starts to warp and deform. Too much Corruption eventually mutates you into a horrifying abomination who is thereafter an NPC.
>weapon proficiency as skills
You invest XP in various powers and abilities; most martial ones are built around a particular weapon or set of weapons. Steel Throw is good for thrown weapons, for example, while Man-At-Arms supports sword-and-board. Each comes in three tiers (Novice, Adept, Master) with increasingly cool shit you can do. You can invest in a bunch at Novice tier or ride up into the Master tier if you want to specialize.
>classless/point-buy
See above. Anyone can buy any spell with their XP, with the only downside being the amount of Corruption you get if you buy a spell without first buying the "Tradition" associated with it. There are suggested packages of abilities and powers, but absolutely no restrictions.
>realistic combat (for a d20 system)
Weapons do between d6 - d12 damage. A character will only have 18 health even after heavily investing XP. Combat is lethal, there is no resurrection, and there are optional rules for hit-locations (you can, for example "aim high" for an increased chance to hit 'em in the head or another debilitating place, but with a penalty to your roll).
>good grappling rules
No system has this. Symbaroum's is at least unobstrusive-- opposed Strong tests, and a skill devoted to strangling a punk are more or less what you get.
>good downtime activities/travel mechanics
There is some thought put into the economic reality of the base setting, and the travel time/dangers of moving between settlements. There are not "downtime rules" but advice on making downtime interesting
Cont.
>spell/power crafting
Not a thing, but there are skills related to crafting artifacts which are interesting. There's also plenty of room to re-fluff and muck about with the specifics of spells such that a DM can probably work with you.
>non kitchen-sink
The base setting is like fantasy S.T.A.L.K.E.R., and its execution of things like trolls and goblins is not standard-fare fantasy stuff. It sticks to its theme of gritty low-fantasy pretty well.
>more/less/differente attributes
The base attributes are not descriptive of your character's physicality but rather their aptitude. Having a high "Strong" does not mean your character is necessarily beefy or big-- just that they are apt and proficient in applying their strength to a problem. Accurate, Cunning, Discreet, Persuasive, Quick, Resolute, Strong, Vigilant.
There. I've made my pitch. Check it out. Or don't. I think it is a neat system but you don't have to.
Gonna check it. Thank you very much user.
Hackmaster 5th edition does pretty much what you're looking for.
>armor as DR
Yep, shields blocks as DR also are a thing
>magic has meaningful cost for the caster
Magic users spend a lot more to cast spells, and suffer spell fatigue after casting, and generally can't solve every problem, but they can still become reasonably flexible
>weapon proficiencies as skills
Sure
>classless/point-buy
There are classes, but there with building points there's a reasonable amount of customizaiton
>realistic combat
This is actually the best part. Combat involves all the players at all times because everything happens simultaneously to a degree, and is resolved so much faster than comparative systems.
>good grappling rules
They exist, not sure how good they are since I haven't tried them
>good downtime activities/travel mechanics
Not really a part of the rules inherently but it has a skill system, encumbrance and fatigue rules for use if you want them for travel
>spell/power crafting
Nope
>non kitchen-sink
Sure, each flavor of cleric is a completely separate class with it's own spell list, own powers, it's own tenet of faith, and are pretty unique.
>more/less/differente attributes
Oddly enough, this is also pretty good. No stat is a dump stat.
Sounds like hardcore shit. I don't want to roll for my fucking armor, that's autistic. You don't roll for passive shit. It looks pretty much like your bog standard classless D&D homebrew that sounds cool but is in fact intolerable to play. Bonus points for an attached nomenclature meant to abbreviate that only succeeds in aggravating. I'll look into this game but I bet I will be disappointed, just as I am with 90% of RPGs these days.
have you tried making your own? can we take a look a it?
why?
It makes me happy
>enjoy older fantasy art
>most modern fantasy art seems to convey less emotion and focus more on how badass some human hero is, instead of how deadly the monsters are
Maybe it's just nostalgia
Both old and new are good, but new art tend to look same-y to me. Old rpg art don't look that 'professional' but at least there is more variety in it.
2nd ed Mutants and Masterminds
Classless, point buy, extremely flexible - good for multiple genres, no hit points - uses saves.
D20 Conan.
Alternately:
Everstone
BESM d20.
>M&M gameplay
Ugh. The poor OP.
>spell/power crafting
Do any games have this?
GURPS but it is not a d20 game
GURPS and Unisystem do, as do most superhero games.
I agree. I know one thing I hate with a passion it's art for pathfinder and the later versions of dnd.
>you're not allowed to dislike shit unless you've made something that's better
Well for one thing I wouldn't do point-buy shit that defeats the entire purpose of a level-up HP-gain game.
Your game sounds no different than GURPS except GURPS doesn't try this stupid "players make all the rolls" shit.
These are all garbage, honestly. FantasyCrap is just another 3.X clone with a couple of interesting mechanics ripped off from another game and poorly implemented. Iron Heroes is nice if you want to experience Merals' 4th Edition cocksuckery without the benefit of 4e actually being balanced. Symbaroum looks okay but probably disappointing, bog-standard XP-buy GURPS/D&D crossover. Hackmaster is pretty severely autistic but probably one of the better ones. Mutants and Masterminds is superhero capeshit, it's trash, the damage system sounds good but then you realize how swingy the d20 save v.s. damage mechanic is and if you are intelligent you come to the conclusion that it is shit. GURPS is probably the best game on this list, but it is not d20 and it is also pretty lethal and autistic. However the core mechanic of GURPS is beautiful and it uses a similar stat range to D&D so it is somewhat familiar.
>guaranteedrepliesthepost
You missed Conan and everstone, despite having quoted me.
That's because those games aren't even worth mentioning.
>GURPS
>Beautiful
Pick one
Conan is the best d20 system.
Everstone is okay. It's the best point buy d20 system. Like a less shitty M&M.
Conan also fills a bunch of OPs requests.
>Armor as DR
>Strong magic is hard to do.
>More realistic combat
>Non-kitchen-sink.
Everstone, on the other hand
>Classless/point buy
>Spell/power crafting.
They're literally the best options that cover OPs requests (well, some people might prefer BESM d20 or M&M to everstone, I guess).