Pathfinder General /pfg/

I think Iron Kingdoms is the limit of technology for me
Guns are "advanced", but never become modern if you know I mean.
I am against the cowboy flavor.

I feel much the same user. If only guns were half decent in Pathfinder, lel.

GM cancelled last minute.

This is the second time they've done that in a month's span.

:/

>+4 Dexterity
There's your answer.

My players encountered a several hundred feat long human headed autistic hairy snake outsider who told them "not to be crushed between the struggle of two petty gods".

>+4 Dex
>Small
>One feat lets them use medium sized firearms at no penalty

I always thought about playing a goblin gunslinger who was a hunter that was famous for taking down "big game" among his people. Big game being, like, horses.

>Big game being, like, horses.
And like, he's famous among his people for bringing down this creatures that everyone else considers mundane.
That's just too fucking kawaii!

Went pretty well. My character managed to seduce one of the BBEG's lieutenants (a half-elf Slayer) and supposedly she's going to help us take down her boss. On the other hand, it's also possible she in fact seduced my character and is planning to lead us into a trap. It's hard to say exactly what happened. We'll find out next week I suppose.

Honestly they're one of the strongest gunslinger races.

Suwako like the curse-goddess?

You know what always baffled me, aside from the fact that guns are OBSCENELY EXPENSIVE FOR NO REAL REASON? There's magic enchantments to have infinite ammo, but somehow a gun can still misfire with it. Also that guns aren't just magitek in the first place.

Commonplace Guns: While still expensive and tricky to wield, early firearms are readily available. Instead of requiring the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat, all firearms are martial weapons. Early firearms and their ammunition cost 25% of the amounts listed in this book, but advanced firearms and their ammunition are still rare and cost the full price to purchase or craft.

Guns Everywhere: Guns are commonplace. Early firearms are seen as antiques, and advanced firearms are widespread. Firearms are simple weapons, and early firearms, advanced guns, and their ammunition are bought or crafted for 10% of the cost listed in this chapter. The gunslinger loses the gunsmith class feature and instead gains the gun training class feature at 1st level.

Me and my GM are having trouble with the kineticist class, specifically burn and the "slow burn" variant feature presented in Psionics Augmented - Kineticist.
Regular burn makes you take a point of burn (which is = non lethal damage equal to your level and cannot be healed until you rest). However slow burn lets you take about 1 point of burn per 2 levels, and then if you get 3 points of burn in you you reduce the price of burn for EVERY SINGLE ABILITY by 1, effectively nullifying the cost of most abilities, but not infusions or blasts. Oh and with slow burn you can't take burn points any other way but by this specific feature.

Now I'm kind of ok with that since I was hoping to go more for crowd control, versatility and utility, but GM is against it and this is his arguement:
"its encouragement of getting more use out of low-burn abilities is highly contradictory to the idea that as you level up you get access to higher-levelled powers
it still shackles you to the same punishing burn HP damage progression
from a design perspective, slow burn means that either it costs too much burn and everthing is useless, or it costs too little burn and everything is free. the sweet spot in between is so small as to be near invisible."

Is he right? Did we gloss over anything? Because I don't want to retrain my character completely and lose the ability to smash people each other with telekinesis.

Yes, and? That doesn't stop them from being obscenely expensive by default, and still overpriced with those rules.

Probably one of the best options you can go with, especially since they don't even have a penalty to a stat you'd care about. They make amazing snipers too, thanks to the massive stealth bonus.

Taking down a bear would be like us taking down a dragon!

Yes.

by default they are class ability

>by default they're retardedly designed
>"yea but that's how they're designed"

what are you getting at

that you are wrong to think there is no reason

Still looking for players for a E8/P8 Pathfinder game that'll be set on Noiralog or Eberron or possibly both via a spelljammer or something, iunno. (Probably will do the spelljammer idea tho because you can't ever go wrong with including a spelljammer)

app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/71015/a-generic-pathfinder-adventure-title

>E8

How do you feel about Warforged characters? I was thinking of a warforged character concerned with "the nature of the soul".

I know there's a reason, I called that reason shit and dismissed it. Do you somehow think that shit reason is worth defending?

Cute, cute!

I'm completely fine about Warforged characters. There's even a PF conversion of the Warforged (And the other races etc) here:

sites.google.com/site/eberronpathfinder/conversion-info/races/warforged

>its encouragement of getting more use out of low-burn abilities is highly contradictory to the idea that as you level up you get access to higher-levelled powers

What the hell?
Has he even looked at the kineticist class abilities?

The amount of burn a normal kineticist can take only scales with their constitution, not their class level.
For utility talents, the burn cost of higher level abilities is NOT higher than the cost of lower level abilities.
You already need to be high enough level to choose them in the first place. Once you have your first point of free burn reduction, you aren't gated from using any higher level abilities you'll be able to get access to.

Slow Burn does sacrifice a kineticist's nova potential, but is a net buff to the kineticist.
This is a good thing because of how lackluster the base class is.

Eagle said that he would do reviews of your app if you pm him!!

>The amount of burn a normal kineticist can take only scales with their constitution, not their class level.
Slowburn scales it with level though. Level 1-2 you can only take one point of burn (and this is primarily for the Avant Guard archetype, which I am but want to switch out of), then at level 3-4 2 points, level 5-6 3 points and so forth.

inb4 that was just a random user and Eagle wonders why the fuck he's getting a dozen PMs.

Hey guys, this kind of shit is not cool.

Having a shitty reason does not constitute having a real reason, and I still don't know what you're getting at by acting as though it is.

It what happens when you don't use a trip code. ;3

Yes.

But you only get 'free' burn once you hit level 5 - it was designed for the Avant Guard to scale with their construct, and if you're a normal kineticist having slow burn is a flat restriction with zero benefit before you hit level 5.

I... don't see why Slow Burn having scaling is a problem? Isn't that exactly what your DM wants to happen?

Avant Guard is good though why do you want to lose that

app.roll20.net/forum/post/4691090/character-creation-rules/?pageforid=4734739#post-4734739

I refuse

For me personally it's cost-benefit kind of situation. I can acquire talents that can mess with my foes and deal more damage than my Magnum Opus can, but if I spend more burn for the MO I become more and more squishy. I mean it's a great archetype but it's not for me.
I think there might have been a miss-understanding, I'm kind of uncertain what he meant when he presented his arguement to me, maybe I should take the benefit of the doubt and see if he got something confused as well.

I dislike Gestalt.

Gestalt characters can either be build 2 ways, wide or tall. Wide gestalt makes a character highly versatile, tall makes them highly specialized and powerful at their gimmick.

Tall Gestalt means that no one can participate where anyone else is tall because the difference is just too big. Also their bonus will be high enough that it trivializes many encounters unless you just jack up the opponent's numbers in response.

Wide gestalt means in parties larger than 2-3 people will overlap hugely. This means that you simply have a lot of people who do the same things.

Neither of these are desirable. I can't see the reasoning for Gestalt in a party larger than 3. On /pfg/ I see it in parties of six, SIX.

I see it cause so many problems around here because people get angry at big numbers when people build tall and parties can't be built properly when people build wide.

It just seems silly. Especially when folks complain about "unreasonable" numbers when rules are something like Gestalt, 35PB, Bonus Feat Track, etc. It goes past "reasonable" into silly power level.

NANI?

>app.roll20.net/forum/post/4691090/character-creation-rules/?pageforid=4734739#post-4734739
Eagle, who is the least fuckable app?

Wouldn't that be decided by your own preference? Like least fuckable to me and least fuckable to say Rory could very well be two entirely different people.

I'm planning on running a Small-Group game, with maybe 2-3 players, I agree with you. For a 2-3 player game, gestalt works fine. I'd modify it and give a few extra feats at 2 and every 3 levels thereafter but otherwise, 20pb Gestalt seems reasonable to me.

I'm asking SEagle yo, I want to know what he thinks.

Oh. Very well then. Carry on.

You're absolutely right about everything you said, but you need to understand that an effective Pathfinder character by default can only be built wide or tall in the first place.

Gestalt is basically accepting that Pathfinder is broken and no amount of feat tax rules or martial bonuses is going to fix it, so you might as well go wild and let people build whatever interesting roleplay concepts or mechanical concepts they can. It arguably balances itself out better than the default too, because the strongest get less mileage out of gestalt than anyone else due to what makes a class good.

>
Gestalt is basically accepting that Pathfinder is broken and no amount of feat tax rules or martial bonuses is going to fix it, so you might as well go wild and let people build whatever interesting roleplay concepts or mechanical concepts they can.
You're throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

>It arguably balances itself out better than the default too, because the strongest get less mileage out of gestalt than anyone else due to what makes a class good.
It really doesn't, only a moron things gestalt is more balanced than base pathfinder.

Least fuckablebis your mom.

Though if I jad to get a serious answer.

Errakus, lil bugger might be cute; but he's still technically a rotting mutant anathema to all durgens

SEagle bringing the bantz

/pfg/ what would happen if Aroden suddenly appears, turns out the date of his return got screwed up and all the chaos that happened after his disappearance was just caused by everyone panicking instead of his divine essence being lost.

He asks you to explain what happened while he was gone. What do you say?

Ever hear the phrase a rising tide raises all ships

>He asks you to explain what happened while he was gone. What do you say?

Shit's fucked, Cheliax thought you'd never come back and panicked a little.

You know why I want to play a gestalt character? Because I had a GM who desperately wanted to do a 1-on-1 campaign, but kept getting frustrated when he realized I would never be able to cover all my bases alone. He never would follow through on allowing it, though, and the whole thing fell through, leaving me sitting here with half a dozen possible ridiculous messes of builds that I'll never get to play.

Gestalt in a 3+ player group is ridiculous and silly, and that only becomes worse when you add in PoW, fuck I'm so sick of gestalt always being paired with PoW and I even like the IDEA of PoW. It's hard enough finding complimentary classes normally, now I have to narrow down my selection EVEN MORE if I want to have a fighty side to me? Fuck, dude.

Well, first I'd have to ask him why he decided to stop powering all of his clerics for all these years

Asmodeus has taken the charge of leading humanity into it's destined golden future. Sorry senpai, you got cucked.

Okay, Dragon2 apps and how fuckable they are. Can't believe I'm actually doing this, but figure I'll list those nearly-completed based on a scale of "I would utterly demolish that" to "Actively makes me soft". Just remember that this is based purely on physical traits.

Five Stars: Calsicahedrix, Lythinex, Mercedes, Raine
Four Stars: Aisha, Aurora, Irving, Ivelia, Marianne, Rinka, Ulfric
Three Stars: Forte, Kardzaros, Tamrir, Xen, Yoichi
Two Stars: Brejik, Kabouite, Rory, Vorelira
One Star: Errakus, Korkazak, Philo, Rorymei

>Aroden bursts out of Iomedae's stomach like an adorable, divine xenomorph.

Aroden's return would fuck so many things over.

I would tell him Iomedae tried to fill his rather large shoes and it didn't work plus she pissed Asmodeus off, Cayden is still a lazy shit, Norburger is still a shit head, Rovagug is still in the cage, the world wound closed somehow, and things generally haven't gone great.

>a rat that high

Pure degeneracy

Except the ones that sink. Which is half the apps.

Just put out the lights and tell her to call you Kazuma.

I haven't taken a look at the gun rules for PF, but is a swashbuckling duelist possible? I guess, akin to real pirates? You go into a fight with pistols strapped to everywhere, and fire as needed?

What does that have to do with balance

>One Star: Errakus, Korkazak, Philo, Rorymei
Why did these four fail? Was it on purpose? What is wrong with them in your opinion?

user, let's try to be reasonable instead of being a baby and assuming you're right by default.

Fact of the matter is that it brings the bottom line way up, barely scratching the top. The difference between a well-built Wizard and a well-built Wizard/Cleric, Wizard/Barbarian, Wizard/Obscure 3pp really isn't that significant because a Wizard is a living god anyways. Gestalt does throw the core game mechanics into a loop, but it allows you to make weaker classes which would be virtually unplayable usable by moving their tools into better kits. The guys who hover in the middle will usually already have enough action economy options in the first place that a gestalt patches their holes and turns them on earlier rather than pushes them into godhood.

Gestalt can lend into ridiculous number spiking, and that's the kind of shit a DM has to deal with on their end, but action economy has always been the name of the game, and this brings everyone closer together in that regard.

>The shapeshifters are this low.

user...

Calsicahedrix is in a category all her own.

She's a sultry cabaret singer with a figure that would make Amalthea blush, she's got it all.

He was off crusading for humanity elsewhere that direly needed it, his wifi was terrible

That's not a failing grade, they just turn me off.
>Weird little mutant who's too little to actually do anything with
>DHB's latest self-loathing uggo
>wow, it's fucking nothing
>gender-confused slut boy

Cayden wasn't even AROUND when Aroden was a thing, was he?

>He was off crusading for humanity elsewhere that direly needed it

>Aroden was off being the God-Emperor for a couple centuries.

>tfw when you also had an idea for a dragon princess bard in a different way but are having to seriously consider changing out the bard half for something else because Calsicahedrix is obviously the hotter pick

>The difference between a well-built Wizard and a well-built Wizard/Cleric, Wizard/Barbarian, Wizard/Obscure 3pp really isn't that significant because a Wizard is a living god anyways
The difference between a Wizard and a Wizard/Warder is massive because water removes the one weak point a wizard has, his defense. Wizard defense is shit because they have no class feature support for their saves and minimal for their HP and AC unless they have time to cast and prepare, and even then it doesn't make the difference. A wizard forced into combat If you say "lel wizards don't do combat" fuck off because avoiding every combat NEVER FUCKING HAPPENS in an actual game has to fear failing saves because his saves are dumpster tier. A Wizard/Warder feels no fear because of counters and how counters work.

You could be a duet.

A dueling duet.

Be the Devola to her Popola.

He absolutely was. There hasn't been a new god in centuries, and Aroden died 100 years ago.

>wizard
>weak defense

Just wrong

And being a warder doesn't suddenly make them able to cast in full plate

Cayden ascended in 2765 AR, Aroden disappeared for the last time in 4606. They coexisted for over a thousand years.

>Be the Devola to her Popola.
>mfw

Has the Friday RotJR group completely given up on posting greentexts? Lately I've only been seeing recaps from the Saturday group.

I'm not talking about AC you moron I'm talking about saves.

Wizards have dumpster tier saving throws. They have no class feature support for their saves, have one good save, their casting stat is not a saving throw stat, and almost no spells on their spell list buffs saving throws (the ones that do give them hardly anything).

Wizard saves are laughable tier.

>100 years ago.

Fucking really.

Goddamnit Paizo how the fuck did you have your ancient civilization fuck itself in the ass only a hundred years ago?

You clearly don't know how to play a wizard

Ancient civilization? The Azlanti were largely wiped out in Earthfall except for Aroden. That was -5293 AR.

Cheliax started worshiping Satan barely 80 years ago.

The continental empire in Tian Xia collapsed 100 years ago.

Brevoy was founded 200 years ago.

Azlant fell a fucking long time ago, it fell before Aroden raised the starstone 4000 years ago.

Not that guy, but I hope you are not going to suggest item crafting

And you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Please inform me without saying "lel I don't get into combat" how a wizard has decent saves.

You don't need to avoid combat to avoid situations where you need to save

>mfw I realize the only reason I took one half of a gestalt is to get a scaling bonus to skills
>mfw I have no intention of really using the rest of the gestalt

If your Wizard has poor survival as early as 1, on a 20 point buy, you seriously have no business talking about balance because you don't know what you're doing with optimization. The assumption if you're complaining about gestalt breaking things is that we're going the mile on full game optimization.

If you're stuck with a single good save, Will is arguably the best one to have. Even if you hold that a good Fortitude is more important, a Wizard can afford a much easier time picking that up on their progression. Classes with two good saves often run into more issues than Wizards on keeping up due to spreading out their wealth, you just need 14 DEX/14 CON, a preparation of Mage Armor early on, and the usual pick ups on your wondrous items, without mentioning at all what an easy time you have sparing feats and features towards your defense.

Tfw may never stuff Aurora till she ahegaos

Ok, tell me how you avoid the situation where you need to make a saving throw. There is an enemy caster, you're level 5, he casting Howling Agony targeting you. How do you avoid it?