Why so few love for axes in general Veeky Forums?

>hy stab someone in the back when you can just chop their throat up?

Planting the axe in their skull is easier and does the job better I think.

Anything goes for Axe-Rogue.

Fuck yeah.

*axe high five*

>ignore historical evidence and just DIY it
>"accurate"

I mean it's probably fun and all that, but don't pretend it's anything near historically accurate. It's a bunch of gym rats playing calvinball with ye olde LARP gear.

>They surmise Spartans (and ancient people) were stronger than modern people.

They should've read some studies. We know the median size and weight of anicent greek and they were a good bit smaller than us. The greek themselves also never, ever deny that these things were a pain in the ass just to hold, in fact just being forced to stand still and HOLDING one was a severe military punishment.

But they covered you against everything that wasn't sling stones at long range (because those bounce and slide in under the lower edge, but they eventually fixed that by adding curtains) and they could be used as makeshift boats.

Why don't they get themselves a tactical tomahawk? Useful tool.

Did you watch the videos I posted?

Take all the tree videos I posted and now compare it to those

youtube.com/watch?v=wFs4wP_hByA
youtube.com/watch?v=F0sWbkkh338

If I wanted to learn how to fight with medieval weaponry, I'd go with the actual athletes trying to re-invent the shit in a way that makes sense than with the neckbeards saying kneeling during combat is a sound strategy.

Stature has little to do with physical strength.
Take Jesse Norris for example. 5'5 dude under 180lbs that can pull 800lbs from the floor.
Or belkingonepower (that's his instagram handle), another very small and short man that regularly lifts 400kg.

Then there is Dan Green who regularly presses over 300lbs over his head while standing

> The greek themselves also never, ever deny that these things were a pain in the ass just to hold, in fact just being forced to stand still and HOLDING one was a severe military punishment.

I suppose that that is why they drilled with their weapons all the time. To build strength and endurance to use it. I mean, holding a .308 DMR is also painful, but the army regularly had us shoot those things from a standing position until our shoulders burned like fire. The same principle applies to plate-carrier armor. Just sitting with it is painfull, and yet we were forced to ruck (kind of a fast paced hike) with it for miles.

Wouldn't it make sense that a shield actually has to be heavy and hard? I mean, someone is gonna hit it it something equally heavy and probably devastating and I guess the purpose was to protect you.

I've been meaning to buy one for ages. To go camping, or to have it in hand. But there is simply so much crap out there and so many stupid reviews I'm afraid to waste my money on bad products.

The cold steel tomahawks are actually good. But I'd recommend you replace their shitty handle with an oak or ash one.

Mine broke the first time I tested it on a piece of wood.

> *High-fives with axes
> *both anons now only have one hand

Why is it that ColdSteel stuff is either terrible, or incredibly good?

>Wouldn't it make sense that a shield actually has to be heavy and hard?

The weight comes from their sheer size. They're thin and get pretty much all of their stability from their shape.

>because usually they are trained martial artists who are trying on their own to learn how to fight with ancient weaponry, I mean, not just reading some manual written 300 years ago, but throwing it all out the window and rediscovering how to use the damn weapons.
>Also their culture somehow preserved a bit of that knowledge
Perhaps they did so by writing it down.

Meh, they don't actually make their weapons anything. They have a guy that creates the design, and then they send it to a company that machines, forges or assembles it according to their specifications.

Rule of thumb with ColdSteel: If it's simple (a sword, a saber, a knife, a tomahawk) then it's good. If it's overly complex (like their folding knives) then there is a risk it's shit.

The steel an plastic parts on CS stufff usually are worth your money. Their wood handles apparently tend towards the awful in general. Like the one on their trench spade is machine-turned and has a flat surfarce right on top of the pommel that'll cleanly stamp a piece of skin outta your hand in short order.

Or so bad it's good?

Polearm are pretty great. That daneaxe would be much better with a spike on the top so you can use it like a spear, and maybe a pick on the back for going through a fuckers armor.

There is a video on youtube where a Russian guy (in a prison) is demonstrating a bunch of techniques with maces and swords and axes.

When asked how he learned it, he said his dad taught him. It was kind of a past-time.

>>he doesn't know who renowed HEMA practitioners Matt Easton, Guy Windsor, Axel Petterrson, or Ilkka Hartikainen are, and thinks that all of HEMA is dweebs like The Forge twatting each other
>>he thinks getting rid of historical evidence and attempting reconstruction through use is both necessary and sufficient to understand older martial arts traditions
>>he's probably never fought with blunt steel in his life

Please for the love of god stop justifying HEMAfags' superiority complexes you absolute mong

Eww... writing/reading is for nerds.

my pollaxe friend of african american lineage

I want you to pick up one of those "LEAN MUAY THAY" books from the book store.

Then sign up for an MMA fight.

Tell me the result.

Nothing wrong with keeping a record. But you simply don't get how a movement or technique is done by looking at a poorly drawn picture that only shows the end of a movement's execution. Specially considering that those manuals are written in a dead language that nobody properly understands.

I prefer my characters to use two handed Axes and Hammers.

I always wanted to make a guy that used pic related.

>I mean, the thing is still used for combat purposes by actual soldiers to this day, after centuries of existance.

Wait, what?

Soldiers are actually carrying tomahawks to the field?

Regular soldiers and jar-heads, no, they get to carry only what they are issued.

Specialized units, who can pick what they do or don't take to the field do, like Force Recon Marines and Army Rangers. Like I said, it's a weapon, a survival tool and a multi-tool, it has much more useful than a knife and weighs a tad heavier (1.5 pounds, but some bowie knives weight more than that.)

I know the French Foreign Legion let's you carry whatever the fuck you want as long as you pay for it with your own money and it doesn't get in the way of what you are doing.

Hey folks, I'm a budding historian (part time MA), early/high medieval reenactor and A&A fantatic.

I've had the pleasure of handling some surviving examples, play fighting with a variety of axes (not exactly an accurate recreation of historical combat but it does offer a few observations on using weapons based on finds) and generally reading about the design and usage of early/high medieval weaponry.

If you've got any axe related questions I'll do my best to answer to answer them.

(Pic related is a dane-axehead found in the Thames, and my noodly right arm)

>gstaff
>Broadblade short sword
What in the fuck am I reading.

Normans getting pissy because a viking yanked his shield out of the way with the beard of his axe while another hit him in the face

>Tomohawks were favored over swords
American Indians didn't even invent swords, so that's a dumb point.
>Dane Axes
Vikings were known for the quality of their swords

>Vikings were known for the quality of their swords

Not really. As with pretty everyone else in Europe at the time, the Norse bought German blades and added fittings in the local style. Norway has an astounding number of swords found archaeologically but the famous Ulfberht blades were made in a Rhineland workshop (alongside the Gicelin and Ingelrii blades who form the other big two manufacturers).

There are some stunning examples of Norse craftmanship in the pommels and guards, but the blades themselves were either imported German work or local imitations.

In any case that doesn't detract from Dane Axes being a distinctively Norse weapon (until the A/S adopted it from their Danish conquerers, and the Normans from the A/S at which point it entered the general knightly arsenal of Europe).

One thing to remember about Daneaxes though is that most of the factors usually associated with (hand)axe use don't apply. These were dedicated weapons with no use as tools, used by highly trained professional warriors almost invariably equipped with swords and armour (especially important given the inability to use a shield in the offhand). Their use by groups such as the Huscarls and Varangian Guard was due to the devastating power of the weapon not because it was cheap/simple to use/ultilitarian.

(Pic is a Cross Axe, a variant on the Dane Axe. Made during the Conversion Period in Scandinavia these probably had religious significance aside from being lighter than regular Dane Axes though amusingly one has been found in a pagan burial mound perhaps as a trophy)

are traps gay?

Ancient diets do not really lend themselves to actually developing particularly strong. These people weren't just short because they were inbred, they were short because they were also stunted in various ways.

>Vikings were known for the quality of their swords
They were folded low grade iron.

>spears
>weapons of royalty
I agree with you about axes but come on, they're pointy bits of metal on the end of a stick, spears are the quintessential peasant weapon

The Lay of Thrym suggests not.

Lol douchebags mostly. There ain't much use for an axe that isn't fulfilled by simply having a multitool or a machete on you. Maybe some fancy spec ops guys like seems to think but then again those guys get away with whatever they want and even then I don't imagine them using tomahawks for really anything.

>people still buy the meme that force recon is on a level anywhere near rangers
Force Recon doesn't get to pick up that much.

Also the only FFL troops with axes are sappers, and no, you don't "carry what you want if you paid for it", especially not axes, which are a badge of rank for sappers.

Bad iron thats been folded you say?
I wonder if anyone would be interested in this. Maybe i can tell them on the internet, or if they are good at counting, sorting and not social situations.

>spears are the quintessential peasant weapon
Spears are the quintessential everyone weapon.

Leaving aside the fact that peasant levies were not really a thing, nearly every warrior on a Early/High Medieval battlefield would have a spear regardless of rank with the main exceptions being if they instead used a Dane Axe (or other polearm when they develop) or were an archer.

A warrior without a spear was improperly equipped. Under Anglo-Saxon law warriors were obliged to equip themselves with maille, helmet, shield and a spear. When these laws were updated by the Normans in the 12 and 13thC, the only weapon a knight was obliged to bring was his spear (which is the same as a lance in this period). Now of course a thegn or knight wouldn't be caught dead without a sword, but legally it was not required whereas spears were. Similar laws existed in Scandinavia (and presumably in the rest of Europe given how they also used spears in the same way but I couldn't tell you about the legislation).

It is difficult to overstate just how central spears were to warfare. A huge of military kennings revolve around spears; battle are plays of spears, warriors are spear-bearers and so forth.

Spears.

Double-bitted axes are fucking stupid.

I have a nonsexual fetish for axes. That is, as you say, an obsession of sorts.

here's another axe for you straight from Path of Exile

You are a raider, legendary

Nonmilitaryfag here, what use do sappers have for axes anyways?

It's not so much that the iron was especially bad as because steel-working techniques didn't allow for the production of ingots large enough to forge a sword from a single bar which necessitated pattern welding multiple rods to make the blade. This is also why helmets of the same period are made from multiple panels riveted together rather than being raised out of a flat sheet as in later helms from the 11thC onwards.

Once single-piece forging is discovered to allow making blades from one piece of steel and the major production centres in the Rhineland come online in the 10thC the price of swords across Europe drop significantly. The fact that a trade in high-quality ores to feed these production centres resumed certainly helped them become established and maintain quality but the advancement in metallurgy techniques were far more important in moving way from pattern welded swords.

The idea that swords were rare or restricted to the ultra-wealthy is a characteristic of the pattern-welding era, and by the 11thC cheap swords were being cranked out in such numbers that they were well within the reach of most soldiers.

Pbly mostly traditional. Armies in general are surprisingly big on doing things just because it's always been done that way regardless of whether or not it makes sense. For example in Canada you have Task Force Tomahawk, where the dress code explicitly states you can have a tomahawk on your tac vest, simply because of the name. It's useless, nobody does it, but you can.

Or maybe, just fucking maybe, the instruction manuals are supposed to teach you the moves, that you then practice, when there's no-one convenient around to walk you through it.

True, possessing a book doesn't make you an expert, but if it contains the proper forms and you then practice them, oh what do you fucking know, it's as good as if someone who know's what they were doing was showing you! Someone who 'wrote the book' on such techniques, if you will!

Francisca or Tomahawk?

People fellate axes of all sorts here all the time, I have no idea what you're talking about.

But that's wrong though.

Most of Cold Steel's swords are shit and most of their knives are good or at least good for the money.

Cold Steel's all over the place in quality so blanket statements don't work.

>Cold Steel's all over the place in quality so blanket statements don't work.

Nah, their axes and machetes(providing you sharpen them yourself) are indisputably GOAT.

Just shove the axe in the stump.
Axe hand.

>>Tomohawks were favored over swords
>American Indians didn't even invent swords, so that's a dumb point.

He's probably referring to the extreme popularity of tomahawks in frontiersmen and Western/Appalachian militias, environments where the tomahawk had many practical uses outside of combat itself an its flexibility made it a great close combat weapon.

Spears, halberds, and other assorted polearms are the best weapons a man can have at his side. A mace of some kind makes for great secondary weapon if you don't have room for your large, phallic weaponry though.

An ax to grind?

You haven't studied enough

Vid 1: Not HEMA, archery
Vid 2 and 3: HEMA, 3 looks like Tallhoffers manual whilst two looks like a combination of a few fechtbuchs

In a combat situation, you only use an axe if you can't afford a sword or a mace.

Unless you're talking about a two handed pole weapon like a large Dane axe or poleaxe. Because then you have that and a sword/smaller axe as a side arm.

Because swords have always had mythologically thought to possess magical powers, or associated with the noblity.

Axes are tools for dirty simpletons and plebs.

>inb4 axe h8r

Not so fast my favorite weapon is the polaxe, also all my best friends are axes as well

>Nonmilitaryfag here, what use do sappers have for axes anyways?

They mainly use to use locally available wood in costruction. You gotta chop that.

I love axes, they deliver far more force to the target

Because for some fucking reason Supply won't let me have one. "Won't have use for it" my ass, I'll find one goddammit.

Your bait is rotten

Axes don't show up in HEMA because they aren't really discussed by the masters. That being said, some people are working on more living traditions, like bowie and hawk. Axe could also be learned by studying eastern martial arts (like fma).

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>HEMA is a joke
>Posts HEMA
Hilarious!

>5'5 dude under 180lbs that can pull 800lbs from the floor.

As someone who is 5'6 and under 180 lbs who weight trains regularly, this fills me with hope.

I dunno, if all MMA teachers and masters had been dead for a few centuries I'd feel pretty good about my chances with my handy book.

Have you ever used an axe?
If it's not a halberd or a tomahawk it's SHIT.

Swords could be bought by the average soldier without impacting their economy. Just like cars today, you can buy a Tsuru and ram it into a post the same way a CEO can buy a Tesla and let it ram itself into a post.

In fact I suspect swords are so popular an iconic of medieval-esque fiction because they were as common in late-medieval onwards europe, asia and middle-east as guns were in america during the wild west period (and still are today).

If they made their Trench Hawk's handle of whatever the fuck their boomerang is made of, I'd buy 10.
In the meantime their tomahawk trainers are fantastic for target practice.

How do you think boxing became a thing?
They gave a rulebook to a couple street fighters and told them to teach it to their lads so (((we))) could make money betting and selling tickets. Now boxing doesn't look at all like it did back in the day after centuries of technical development and ruleset adaptations.

The real "royal" weapons were maces and hammers. Peasants wanted reach to be as far away from their opponents because they weren't equipped to ignore their arms. Knights and royals could bash heads with a big ass iron dildo on a foot long pole because they were clad in steel. Consequentially, they were also the weapon better suited to harming the other heavily armored assholes on the field.

I wish this polearms > everything, always, GOTYAY meme would finally die. There is a time and a place and a spear has a quite specific time and place.

>In a combat situation, you only use an axe if you can't afford a sword or a mace.

That's not true at all.

Let's take a look at the Vikings, those stereotypical axe users. A huge number of axes have been found in Norse (and Pagan-era Anglo-Saxon) weapon burials. Spearheads are found in almost every weapon grave as you might expect, but under the "axes are for poor people" view you'd expect to see either swords OR axes as the secondary weapon. In fact, numerous graves contain spears, swords AND axes. Even for those with swords it still made sense to carry an axe, and it seems that as armour became more common axes displaced seaxes/war-knives as the back-up weapon of choice. The practice of carrying both swords and axes is also seen in the sagas.

Then you have examples such as the Mammen Axe (pictured), richly decorated with silver inlays and found in an extremely high status grave stuffed with silks and silver/gold thread embroidery. This is a handaxe for a very wealthy individual and not the poor-mans substitute for a sword.

Another good example would be the late medieval/renaissance Horseman's Axe and it's Indian equivalent, the one-handed versions of the Tabarzin (saddle axe). Both of these weapons were specialised anti-armour tin-openers used by mounted warriors in armour. These were weapons for the elites with the most expensive kit on the battlefield and Tabarzins in particular could be extremely ornately decorated.

Being fairly cheap can be a factor in handaxe usage, but the idea that this precluded wealthy warriors from wielding them when the situation merited is nonsense.

Axes always seem to be inherently 'clunky' to use, due to the fact that you are swinging around a weighted head on the end of a stick. It's not as sexily dexterous as a sword, and it can't be used for parrying as well as one.

Fiore has a whole section on Pollaxe though

How does that not count as showing up in HEMA?

Also pollaxes. See: the hundred years war

>langes schwert und ringen
>schielhau krumphau
>literally sourced from lichtenauer and meyer, #1 hema wankbook writers

why do you act like HEMA is some organized thing that americans do, like SCA? come to poland, we made HEMA a thing together with scandinavia and the dutchy. HEMA is just umbrella for anyone studying a historical european martial art, retard.

also do not blatantly lie about things you know nothing of
>I mean, not just reading some manual written 300 (300? lol.) years ago, but throwing it all out the window and rediscovering how to use the damn weapons.
everything done in those videos are principels of meyer, lichtenauer, fiore, etc. don't be an idiot.

>Why so few love for [weapon] in general Veeky Forums?

>Everyone loves [other weapons] and what have you.

>But why so much hatred for [weapon]?

>So why so much hatred for the thing in fantasy settings and in this board in general?

Just plop in whatever weapon you're utterly obsessed with, post it to a new thread on Veeky Forums togetehr with all the other whiners complaining about everyone else there not existing merely to provide them with validfation and entertainment, and you too can be a worthless sack of shit.

But it's pretty much how threads are made user. You can't just make a thread going 'I like weapon,' you have to incite some sort of argument or controversy that builds to argument. Otherwise there's nothing to - in an ideal world - discuss and question, or more likely screech about.

I don't know, A&A threads usually generate a bit of interest with image dumps and discussion while remaining mostly civil.

Controversy and bait are more reliable and make for faster threads but is another way.

>Russian M1 armoured fighting
>historical in any way, shape or form

mate it's just people dressed in tin cans hitting each other with sticks

>Sorry, I was referencing hand axes like the ones the majority of people have been posting, not a polearm.

I think axe lacks specialisation. You know, I'd pick sabre to slash some peasants, warhammer if I want to fuck with full plate. Why bother with versatile weapon.

It's almost mandatory for sappers tho.

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They are mediocre weapons that are hyped up for no reason. They are the wests version of the Katana but have the saving grace of being a good tool.

Its like how people overrate the machete. Yeah it can fuck you up and the laborer carrying his tool to come around on an avenging rampage is neat but its a shite weapon.

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The real question is why spears don't get more love in media and games.

awful troll is awful