Progressive Tabletop Movement?

I'm pretty sure that meme doesn't apply here.

Apparently Paizo is very accommodating when you tell them their setting is not PC enough, and they're willing to change stuff.

Not at all surprised desu
>using “she” as a gender-neutral/-indefinite pronoun in all of their publications when “they” already exists and historically “he” was used for that purpose
>all that artwork n the PF manual
I also recall reading that in PF slavery is automatically Evil-aligned.

youtube.com/watch?v=ahA9S-f2Vlg

youtube.com/watch?v=_pOUjR-UtHo

They also retconned erastil's religion because "you can't be good aligned if you push for traditional family values, and erastil is a good god.

Glad I never purchased any of their stuff, only used their free online stuff (with AdBlock of course)

I feel like pic-related applies to most people who's entire identity revolves around some convoluted SJW minority-complex.

If you don't like something, fucking make your own and quit bitching about other people liking it, goddamn.

Can't wait to get home and watch all these youtubes with well reasoned arguments to make to then make my own judgement based on the ones put forth and my own experiences and views.

this thread is going to get removed for being /pol/ cancer

wew lad

Good God is she a deluded halfwit

She mentions Storygames as the main bastion of progress in rpg publishing, which I found amusing because I generally avoid storygames, I really disliked all the ones I've seen.

...

>Storygames
>Bastion of progress
>Not allowed to actually be about "offensive" issues like slavery, persecution, searches for identity, or anything that's not pure whiny butthurt and pity parties about how "victimized" you are and about the hobby as a whole sucks both in-character and out.

Yarp. An industry she's apparently worked in for over a decade.

What, you mean like some kind of post-catastrophe setting full of strife and suffering?

story?

>olkien's problematic as fuck. The genre of high fantasy that's largely descended from Tolkien inherited &maintained lots of those problems

This makes me more angry than it should.

We had a woman come into our local Games Workshop while I was playing a game and she asked the staff there why everyone was male, why they refuse to listen to Peta and why the only focus is masculine war and not other things. Even if they did conform to wishes from people like her, the entire fan base would die because they wouldn't play it and neither would old fans.

Dunno. I just saw this video posted one day and made a bait thread about it, making funny pictures with faces he pulls in that video along with appropriate filenames

That part was amusing to me, she just states a list of things that are "problematic" without stating why.

A shitposter in the RPG Brigade got called out on his shitposting, kicked from the group, had a wee bit of a meltdown.

Look up woodwwad & clickclackbang on youtube for some lulz related to what went down.

the most commonly cited reason is the lack of anyone not white.

If you try to counter that ti was written to be Englands version of beowulf, an old tale about the people who lived there since ancient times, they will still get pissy.

>some feminist game dev with twitter
Wow this is a whole lot of pressure on the Veeky Forums industry. Wargames don't give a shit anyway. I'd actually welcome more female models that aren't pinups. But sex sells so good, it's not gonna happen. Don't read feminist twitter/tumblr junk and you will see that most people don't even know this shit exists. Nobody cares for them except for they themself and people who like to fight them.

Not to mention, PETA is a cult that believes all animals want to die, and the fact that an animal might suffer some day in the future is apparently grounds for a "mercy killing" according to PETA, so you'd have to be nuts to listen to them anyways, they're a hate group.

I believe Tolkien is supposedly problematic because of how women are represented (IE the women aren't equally adventures). That's definitely her biggest issue with Conan.

I mean, wouldn't having literal different races sidestep that?

Sure, their skin color is white, but having the same skin color doesn't make you the same race (I mean, according to asians at least).

What movement? Has some guy on youtube that no one knows or cares about made a video not worth caring about? Did you see a tumblr post somewhere that scared you?

Grab some popcorn
youtube.com/watch?v=ysMyBT-z7BA
youtube.com/watch?v=klUq1L9yCu4
youtube.com/watch?v=JVYySOcxCDs

Or what happens when you aren't an asshole, they go "Oh, I didn't realize that, but the issue remains because The Death of the Author."

But thats wrong, some of the greatest heroes/ beings are women.

One of the strongest beings still on middle elf is Galadriel.

My issue is that they criticize things without knowing anything about it.

still white you racist

>But thats wrong, some of the greatest heroes/ beings are women.
And... how many of them are there, in comparison to male characters?

Thing is how can you counter claim without being called an asshole.

Its not like saying 'fuck off sjw' but trying to engage them in conversation and bring up points they may not know, such as the importance of the elf chick who robbed Morgoth blind and killed his dog.

There have been others posted here as well, and I've been hearing about it off and on for a few years now, but in the OP I was referring to the most recent thing I've read, which I linked to here.

It was someone on twitter. /pol/tards get triggered just as easy as feminists.

if you count major players then at least 4 during the lord of the rings era.

If you count children of hurin then it jumps up a little more. More so for the Similarian.

Its not going to be 50/50 but there are a good number and even for now it has a higher representation than most forms of media.

By being polite and non-confrontational? Assuming we are dealing with people in real life, rather than Veeky Forums, where being polite and non-confrontational is tantamount to not posting at all.

So the point still stands, that women are not equally (in any way) adventurers. It's kind of sad when shitty genre novels (such as dragonlance and the like) have better gender ratios than most of the classics of fantasy literature.

>shitty genre novels have better gender ratios than most of the classics of fantasy literature
Who cares?

DESU, I just have a hard time trying to understand why some gamers equate roleplaying in settings that have less-than-virtuous issues going on (oppresive power relationships against, i dunno, minories or women, etc.) as *celebrating* those issues.

I understand the push against excessively sexualized imagery and in favor of racial/body diversity, in terms that more variety helps different people to feel identified with the represented characters.

An entirely different thing is believing that if Carcosa features unambiguously-identified-as-evil rituals and those riuals have mechanical explanation and a description on why are they vile, this means that the game is a celebration of such vileness.

Veeky Forums isnt exactly a bastion of people who hold these views. I have encountered people in university who believe shit such as this. Calling them a nigger rarely helps.

Of courseI also never said being non-confrontational where there is a key difference. You dont stoop to their level where you rely on insults and buzzwords but you still stand your ground and make your point heard.

Then maybe that shows how importance gender ratios are. If modern media that panders to gender ratios or diversity is quickly forgotten after the outrage fades while the "problamatic classics" continue to be so well known. then is there any value to it.

If the Hobbit, which was published in 1937 and is a story about a bunch of short dudes and a tall dude going on an adventure outlasts anything that only desires feminism approval then who gives a shit about getting it.

You are probably shitposting, but in the end of the day those novels, movies, stories etc that live on this SJW and outrage culture will die off.

I mean remember the new Ghostbusters.

Tika is literally only there for Caramon to lust over.

I can't think of a single thing she does the entire trilogy short of being described how sexy she is and how much they are lusting after each other.

>>all that artwork n the PF manual
What's PC about the artwork beyond "brown people exist REEEE"?
>I also recall reading that in PF slavery is automatically Evil-aligned
I don't really see anything wrong with this, most people generally agree owning another sapient being is bad.
>They also retconned erastil's religion because "you can't be good aligned if you push for traditional family values, and erastil is a good god.
They retconned Erastil's religion because some retard misinterpreted his character in "Rivers Run Red" as some sort of Fire and Brimstone motherfucker and they believed you couldn't have a a good god that was homophobic. He still stands for traditional family values(as they exist on Golarion) and community building.

didn't know that t. b. h. was autochanged to d.e.s.u. now.

That's why they're shit, because they care more about gender ratios than actual plot and adventure.

GOD DAMN IT RYAN! GO UPSTAIRS!!!!!!!

>I mean remember the new Ghostbusters.
I wouldn't call them new, the movie's almost old enough to drink.

Because getting more people (women being people) interested in fantasy is a good thing.
>Then maybe that shows how importance gender ratios are.
The issue there is that gender ratios are important. For example, one of the reasons we have such a lack of male nurses and elementary school teachers (that last one being very important, given the importance of positive, direct male and female role models for children during their formative years) is in part because of a lack of male caregivers and educators that are portrayed in a positive light in fiction. As well as gendered language, but.

Would you have liked to been able to participate in a D&D/fantasy club in elementary school (assuming you were interested in fantasy in elementary school or are not currently in it)? Because giving more women (who make up the majority of early educators) an interest in fantasy and science fiction is a great way of making that possible, and likely.

They're right.

>I don't really see anything wrong with this, most people generally agree owning another sapient being is bad.
Most people in the West, today, agree that slavery is a bad thing. Slavery was (and in some parts of the world still is) considered perfectly normal.

A character who grows up in such a culture, era, or fictional setting should not be deemed “evil” simply for adhering to standards of morality that are almost universally accepted anywhere he's ever been and by anyone he's ever met.

If a character in a setting without slaves starts enslaving people, or if a character purposely treats his slaves worse than other slave-owners treat theirs, then I agree that he should be ruled fundamentally evil. Ditto if the cultural standard for the treatment of slaves is grossly inhumane (like chattel slavery in the Caribbean) beyond modern sensitivities.

>For example, one of the reasons we have such a lack of male nurses and elementary school teachers (that last one being very important, given the importance of positive, direct male and female role models for children during their formative years) is in part because of a lack of male caregivers and educators that are portrayed in a positive light in fiction.
Do you have any evidence for that? Are there any large-scale (replicated) studies which show that boys more exposed to male nurses and male teachers in their childhood are more likely to choose these careers for themselves in the future than boys nursed/taught by women?

>wanting every medium if entertainment be the fucking same
> "There have to be 50%50% genderratio, one of each race, and one of each sexxual orientation"

Nobody complains that the cast of My Little Pony is all females either you stupid cocksmith

>A character who grows up in such a culture, era, or fictional setting should not be deemed “evil” simply for adhering to standards of morality that are almost universally accepted anywhere he's ever been and by anyone he's ever met.
Fictional people are not real. They don't have culture, history or values. Everything a fictional character has is put there by the author.

nignog detected. Go play yugioh

I have honestly not seen women pushed out of stuff like that, at least not in Australia. My local shop has a number of women come down to play, one of the owners is a woman and we have a husband and wife in our group plus another girl joining soon.

As for the sciences, at my university in the medical, chemical and biological side of things (as thats where my focus is) I see more women than men entering it.

And as for education as I am currenctly undertaking my masters in a secondary focus, I see plenty of female primary and secondary teachers. Maybe this is true in your shit hole country, but these biases are not such an issue here.

And as for the groups sure, as I would ahve known half of my group of social outcasts who were female. Again in my country there is less bias for women being into these things compared to your shithole and we manage it without gender ratios and SJW pandering.

Why do people want stories to be a always same mesh of brown with the same preachy bullshit plot?

Just because your characters are all minmaxed Mary Sues doesn't mean other people can't care about the setting they're playing.

and yet apparently we cannot be allowed to even imagine, in a fictional context, any morality except our own.

Same reason baptists assumed DnD and Harry Potter were satanic indoctrination.
They're all fucking imbeciles. The imbeciles just have bullshit degrees now.

user.
Welcome to the sad world in which we live.
They have similar issues, they just grew a thicker hide.

I was the one that begged for screenies and argued like a tard. Good times.

It's one thing to explore different things, and other to present things universally seen as horrid and evil as something valuable and good.

>Would you have liked to been able to participate in a D&D/fantasy club in elementary school (assuming you were interested in fantasy in elementary school or are not currently in it)? Because giving more women (who make up the majority of early educators) an interest in fantasy and science fiction is a great way of making that possible, and likely.
1. Nah. Random people suck.
2. And another fuck no to giving 95% of my female teachers a chance to do anything with D&D

>Because getting more people (women being people)

Memories....

Are you trolling or just retarded?

it's one thing to explore different things, but apparently exploring the idea of a society having different mores and values is bad?

History shows for the majority of civilizations slavery was not universally reviled. Fact.

Now, without lying about nonexistent universal moral standards, explain why fiction presenting a society nonjudgmentally is endorsing or condemning it.

Same reason people gave NV shit

reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/3c6jiu/josh_sawyer_lays_down_the_smackdown_on_a_sjw/

>Rape and Misoginy is a thing in the game
>you CAN side with the womenhaters
>therefore, this game OBVIOUSLY supports hating on women
>???
>Actually no profit because SJW dont really buy videa/comics/Games they bitch about, even if they give in and pander to them

And the only one that wins is Tod Howard

Lionheart actually makes sense because he's a lion and therefore African, he should be a lot darker than that though.

Sheep are all over the world, it's possible

Same for rabbits but I suspect Judy's species is endemic to NA

Red fox is definitely N.Europe/Na so Nick would most likely be Caucasoid

>History shows for the majority of civilizations slavery was not universally reviled. Fact.

Most slavery is not what a modern person thinks when he hears the word "slavery". "Slavery" today means almost universally the chattel slavery of the southern plantations.

Lionheart kinda makes sense to be such. He's a lion and inspired by Mufasa to be precise.

I hate them with all my heart.

Trolling, but seriously, there shouldn't be a movement to "bring more people into fantasy".

Fantasy isn't like some secret club only 1% of the population knows about. Everyone knows what fantasy is, and most of the people are not interested in it.

If you want to attract women and normies into fantasy, you must first change what fantasy is. And then it stops being fantasy.

So basically you will just alienate the people who liked it before.

>using “she” as a gender-neutral/-indefinite pronoun in all of their publications when “they” already exists and historically “he” was used for that purpose

Pathfinder's policy is 'Use the gender of the iconic character'. It's why all paladin stuff is She and all Wizard stuff is He.

Having more diversity when it comes to both race and gender is a good thing for tabletop gaming. Removing concepts like bigotry and slavery is bad because thoose things have happened and still continue to happen and trying to shove them under the rug and forget about them will only insure they continue to happen.

Found the cuck.

Look, if you want TT to be more Inclusive just have a few more female hero's, cut back on the cheesecake a little (or better, make it equal opportunity with harem clothed male fuccbois and shit), and ditch the -4 STR muh GM's girlfriend memes and boom there you are

IE there is nothing wrong with the material and the games, just grognards being grogs because they're nerds and outsiders and girls are scrazy normie get out reee

Are you implying melaninated fellows can't be European?

Fucking racist bigot I'm reporting you to the CIA.

Actually, Red Fox is 'Half the Bloody World'. They live in north Africa (Though not as you go further down).

All of them could be darker skinned in a human version but the only ones I'd go with 'Almost certain' is Lionheart and the Police Chief (You know, being a buffalo with a name that comes from Swahili)

>(or better, make it equal opportunity with harem clothed male fuccbois and shit

As a bisexual guy: I fully support more equal opportunity sexy outfits.

>Do you have any evidence for that? Are there any large-scale (replicated) studies which show that boys more exposed to male nurses and male teachers in their childhood are more likely to choose these careers for themselves in the future than boys nursed/taught by women?
Why would I need studies to show that the majority of elementary school teachers are women, and thus it's not viewed as a male profession?

>I see plenty of female primary and secondary teachers.
That's the issue, so I'm not certain what you are saying.
The vast majority of teachers are female, therefore, teaching is not seen as a male profession.
You can complain all you want, but America is one of the major producers of media (including role playing games), and as long as it has gender ratios skewed heavily one way or the other, it's going to effect everyone in the developed world.

Did you not have any friends in elementary school?

You do realize fantasy is a huge genre, right? Nobody is going to take away your MLP Twilight Rapefic, but getting people more interested in fantasy, creating a more diverse platform to build fantasy and science fiction off of sounds great to me.

Found the misogynist.

>if you want TT to be more inclusive just break immersion, change fundamental aspects of your fiction, censor the art or add fujoshi pandering and ignore the effects of disruptive players

That… doesn't sound like an SJW issue so much as just being plain weird.
Given how happily roleplayers will mix and match classes, races, and sexes for create their character, stereotyping any archetype as one or the other (and non-intuitively too; while I sure like my girls in armour, I still see the typical paladin as a great helmeted crusader type) is just counter-intuitive and needlessly complicated.

There is war and only war.

And divisive people such as yourself are the root of such civil wars in my setting.

Basically everyone is at each others throats.

No-one is spared.

Quick! Lets start another all-female Ghostbusters movie! NOW!

>D-deus vult
>It's not like I want to crusade against you or anything b-baka.

we can't let anyone see any vagina bones!

A total nonissue. Every group is an isolated nucleus. They can do whatever they want, be it pandering to safe space infantility, edgy fetish shit or heroic escapism.

>Why would I need studies to show that the majority of elementary school teachers are women, and thus it's not viewed as a male profession?
You are making the claim that A is a result of B without any evidence that B has a measurable effect on A. You're full of shit m8.

Most elementary school teachers a few generations ago were men. According to your theory, this would have discouraged girls from ever becoming school teachers for want of role models. How did the situation reverse then, if your theory (for which you provide no evidence) were true?

You do understand how literacy works, right?
You can have a character saying, that slavery is good, while still presenting it as negative thing in the text.
It's not what the characters say, it's not even what the setting says, it's when the text itself says that slavery is good (using slavery as easy example here, could be many more things) that's when problems start.

>How did the situation reverse then, if your theory (for which you provide no evidence) were true?

World Wars and 'Nam removing men from the workforce? Shift in perceived gender roles forcing women away from repetitive but scientific work (programming, astronomy) into roles more strongly associated with nurturing?

here, I'm not , I just thought it's an interesting question that I wanted to attempt answering.