Thread 2!
So, what is all this well its an effort to build a game using the kartharsys system(Degenesis) to emulate the recent Game known as Horizon: Zero Dawn.
As of right now we have completed the cultures and their bonuses as well as five basic classes and have begun to develop the progression trees. Discussion and discourse is always welcome but let's try to keep on topic, not feed the troll and build towards something pretty cool! And, not die by snapmaw.
and as of right now the paltry pdf.
better then nothing, sadly I'm more of a fluff man myself, I can present ideas to help maintain a dose of energy, but not really crunch
Either is fine, Right now we could use some good solid descriptions of the tribes actually. get them nice and fleshy first and then work our way outward.
polite self bump while I plug away at the artisan tree, if anyone has any suggestions for a thematic progression in that area please throw it out into the ether.
Doing god's work user, the setting looks fantastic and I'd love to use it in a game, hopefully this takes off and you can get something done. I'd offer to help but I don't know the system you're building in at all. Good luck!
well assuming a post game setting I Can see the Oseram and Carja taking a big interest in finding working focuses, if Aloy is willing to share, huge amounts of knowledge of the old world would be revealed setting, with dead corrupters and deathbringers loot and salvage is up the roof for guns and override modules to go with those focuses, a new age of machine taming is around the corner and the Nora will either have to adapt or be left in the dust.
its the same system that is used in degenesis if that helps.
Very likely it'll be post game, of course the big question is also will the derangement continue and if so what will that mean as people try and tame machines. I can see guns beginning to enter into the theater of combat especially against humans. As killing a machine is usually a matter of harvesting sometimes delicate components.
Hello, I've drank but I read it. I did not play the game. You need the following before you go further, I think:
>design goals
Tell us what your goals are so that you know them. This sounds like bullshit but you'll thank me later man. And don't give us an ass off like "To feel like the video game," we don't know how that feels so you gotta say it.
My suggestion is to limit the game down to a very core experience you want to capture, like tribal retards hunting robot dinosaurs. Once you do that well, then you worry about the else.
>list of stats
What is even up with all these stats you're referencing. Is this some Storyteller nine stats shit or what. Start with the stats people is probably gonna use:
>bows
>spears
>medicine
>tracking
>sneaking
>engineering/looting
These probably are the core aspects of the video game, and the ones players attracted to this will want to engage in so they gotta know how good each is at each. If you ever read Apocalypse World, the stats there is about modeling not the character, but how good they are at the evocative things important in that genre world.
>list of skills
Same deal, if I don't know what all the skills is then I don't know if I'm fucked for picking a thing. So ie if hunting is a skill, that's presumably a big part of the game. But if I take points in, shit, what do you got? Legends? Fuck me, I've wasted those points.
>the chart
I can barely read your tiny chart but I don't know what hunter ranks is. In Monster Hunter it wasn't a big deal. I will say I don't like having so many paths, just make it one start and many branches to different endings. But maybe this is lore from HZD.
>dice
If it's truly Zero Dice I recommend you read this PDF for a cool diceless game but you need to figure out a core mechanic and build out from there once you have some framework. Because core mechanic probably is the most-engaged interface between man and rule, this really needs to be looped into your design goals.
I can imagine that the derangement would plateau, the Terraforming system no longer has HADES poking it to make machines more lethal, but without GAIA they aren't exactly going to revert the new machines from rotation in the cauldrons, that said some of them may resume previous terraforming functions we didn't get to see, like that Theory that Blaze is both biofuel and fertilizer and that Bellowbacks spread it to help things grow normally, Albeit while still weaponized as well.
I can't comment much on this but
>Zero dice
It's a pun on the title of the video game, horizon zero Dawn, pretty sure the guy isn't going for a diceless system.
I hear you, literally just started this up yesterday actually so as of right now I need to sit down and actually plot out what it all means and yeah tribal retards hunting robo-dinos is about the sum of it. But yeah I hear you there, I need to do some serious editing to it to actually make it sensible. it was mostly for the people that had popped into the thread prior.
yes it was a poor pun in my defense.
It's the Katharsys system, which the guy neglected to mention. It's the system that is used for Degenesis and it has far stranger looking trees than that.
All of your complaints about the system are due to your lack of familiarity with the system that's being discussed, which is why it's suggested that you have a look at it first. Degenesis, Katharsys. Go have a look.
Additionally, here's another possible tree, something for shamans possibly. I'm not even that interested in this project but seems like I'm the only one providing mechanical input on it.
Got the outline for the artisan tree actually I just suck at making that sort of stuff. Though right now, to make it more accessible and including ability and skill descriptions along with stuff for character creation.
And for anyone interested in Degenesis:
As an example of an outline for the artisan tree as of right now, please tear it apart and see what you might want to do with it.
Artisan:
Apprentice:
Basic entry into class, learn the ropes, gains some simple social skills and crafting.
A. Scribe:
Start of merchant tree, Learns the glyphs and becomes better skilled at social class features bump to network?
A. Caravaner:
Signs on for running with a caravan of traders, learns a basic combat skill and gets trained in bows?
A. peddler:
The caravaner sets out on his own, traveling from settlement to settlement trying to strike it big. Bit better at defending, more social skills.
A. Merchant:
Able to set up a personal store-front/gather Hires towards you. May even become a caravan head. Negotiation bonuses and such.
A. Magnate:
Top end of merchant class, leader of multiple caravans and large amount of pull wherever you go.
B. Novice:
Choose a trade, gain bonuses in it.
B. Journeyman:
Access to network of similar tradesmen in larger settlements, likely traveling place to place to sell your work/might gain some combat skill most likely social skill focus. Bonuses to building shit.
B. Tradesman:
Established a name and reputation bonus to boot. Have some pull and resources to throw at the table and get some bonuses on negotiation if its for price of work(?)
B. Master-Artisan:
Highest rank of craftsmen tree, skilled in social and chosen craft, able to bypass, some craft checks.
Well, think about the different sorts of crafters and the talents they'd need.
I'd start with a basic 'apprentice' rank that grants a minor bonus to finding raw materials related to their crafting profession.
From there, I'd probably split it off three ways:
>Woodworking, for making primitive weapons such as spears and arrows, along with building stuff. I'd probably make Stamina important, due to the long process of whittling their creations into shape.
>Stitching, or putting together things from leather and fibrous plants. Cloaks, clothes, light armor, and other things. Dexterity would be important to them, most likely.
>Metalworking, for metal weapons and metal armor. This probably requires Force from a lot of heavy lifting.
After this divergence, the three branches probably reunite with the next rank being Craftsman and the final rank being Artificer, which both grant further bonuses to Crafting and perhaps some bonuses to Haggling as well.
But you probably have an offshoot from Metalworker, which leads into Tinkerer and then into Machinist. These would be for making more advanced items from scratch, without looting from the old world. Big focus on Engineering; these guys are probably the makers of the Oseram cannons and other moderately high tech stuff.
That's all the advice I can give on artisans.
Yeah I hadn't thought of specializations just straight progression I'm sure with the current frame work they're more than easily slotted in actually. That being this clsuterfuck.
I'd say that has good ideas. For example, I barely acknowledged the importance of haggling and I'd say that after the different specializations of crafting, a character could either go into the merchant tree you mention (although shortened) or go into the artisan tree. Then you've still got the tinkerer/machinist tree on a separate scale, unless that would best be served as a part of the Scrapper.
I'd say that might fall best into scrapper, I see artisans being very much working in the realm of the current world, yeah they might need machine-scrap but they're rarely going to be trying to cob together something like a sonic emitter from a longleg.
life bump
hey sorry I needed to do that whole sleep thing, its the middle of my work week sadly. SO i guess the next big question is what do folks as players want to see out of this project?
To fit in with the game, a focus on survival and hunting the various mechanical beasties, with a lot of freedom on how to take the robots down. No idea how that would translate in game mechanics though.
Mostly that'll come in the combat section as of right now, I've got a couple ways to handle that I think. The first is to hijack Kartharsys's corruption mechanic and turn it into a resistance mechanic where as it fills up a character will take status ailments. Machines have lower resistances to certain things such as fire or ice. For pulling off armor right now I'm thinking machines will have a sort of secondary HP which damage has to punch through first, higher the machine bigger the armor pool. By using weapons with the tear quality they attack it directly. AS for components might make it so as that bar goes down components become open to attack more readily. Not quite sure how to handle them yet honestly as I just rolled out bed.
If that needs explaining please say so, also I need to be heading to work soon and wont be back for several hours as that's kind a how life is and all. If someone has some suggestions particularly in that department or who has suggestions on things like Fluff for the various tribes, new kooky machines etc. Please, please please add it in for everyone to see!
So last thread we had air filtering seed and animal spreading sky rays, reverse mosquito and tick mobile mini batteries, colonies of fist sized termite hornets, and car-strider sized Grove back tortoises and sea turtles tossed about, along with the concetp of pre derangement bellow backs as spreaders of fertilizer.
Where can we go from there on machine concepts?
What about humanoid robits?
How about no
Kinda goes against the wholething ddon't it?
The only humanoids in the setting are the servitors that took care of the first generation of new humans on the cradle facilities, and they were just a skeleton with a holographic coating to look not horrifying, so in theory an industrious scavenger could find use for them
and I'm back as its hard to work in a tundra.
Yey, I've been trying to bump the thread at points with content while at work
yeah one thing that crossed my mind while at work was the groveback should maybe be bigger?Have it act like a sort of mobile mini-cauldron. Itt takes materials from things like shellbacks and processes it into needed substances for redistribution to the rest of the region. Same with the Skyray, its attached machines swoop down to collect stuff like blaze to deliver back to the host machine it may also do stuff like refuel Tallnecks but just my two cents is all. Right now I'm working on giving the pdf a bit more explanation.
Well Grove backs would come in many sizes, from bush and small tree movers to things that give you that sort of shadow of the Collosus feel
I would figure once size fits all type of deal as these are machines after all. Either way, I'll let you guys hash that kind of stuff out Im here to collate rules. Also I might have figured out how to handle killing machines maybe.
Awesome and I like to think more in terms of derivative modles, the thunder jaw is basically a heavily modified variant of the watcher body plan, so the smaller Grove back variants would probably have a different name
see, I can see the watcher in something like the Longleg, but the thunderjaw I can't so much. maybe that's just me.
It's the theropod body plan, but yeah muni GBS could instead be called brush backs or flora shells or something
might make the most sense, I would think of the smaller versions as basically mobile seed dispersal while the big bastards are there to process biomass or resupply machines nearby and wont move for years at a time hence the 'groves'
The groves are part of the design too, allowing them to serve as a sort of flora ark in times of drought
almost got the pdf expanded out, for at least how character creation works. There's still a bunch I need to write in but, that'll come with time.
well here's a bit more of an updated version, classes are six sorts of fucked right now as we need to start building them buuuuut ya know how this goes by now.
This is a great start, what will be the rules on over riding
They'll most likely be based around use of gear though there might be a science or artifact lore check involved in the actual override coupled with either immoblizing the machine in question or a successful stealth check to get into range.
Additionally attacking components will likely work as such.
Armor will be in essence a layer that like normal subtracts from damage dealt. Machines being well, machines have a lot more than normal flesh and blood folk ever will. This makes actually hurting them tricky but, weapons with tear can reduce armor(likely at the cost of not being so great at straight damage). As the armor is worn down components will become open to attack, they'll likely be harder to hit than normal Say a -1 penalty for most but will deal whats called Trauma which means it can bypass normal damage and start dealing some real hurt. Additionally depending on the component other things might trigger such as status issues or shutting down systems.
Oh man, I'm not the only person who loves that system! I'm not familiar with the game but you have my interest.
Robot dinosaurs, techno-vikings that's more or less what you need to know.
this is the currentish conversion I need to fill in more yet but there's only so much time I can stand to sit and type and I'm also kinda working at conquering cauldrons right now.
Are you planning on armour covering only specific components or the entire machine?
This is the rule for Aimed Attacks in Katharsys.
So, typically a machine would have very high protection afforded to it by its armor, with each hit knocking a small amount of the protection until no armor is left. Alternatively, you could make an Aimed Shot and avoid the protection all together, although it's harder to land a hit at all this way.
Huge targets, like the tanks of a Bellowback, would probably add 1 additional Success on to the difficulty, while harder targets, like the power cell and freeze canister on a Ravager, would add 3 or maybe even 4 Successes on to the difficulty.
That's what I had figured on yes. I'd also likely have a list of the more common components and list what'd it take to hit them normally. Sometimes like with the thunderjaw you may have to take off a cerain amount of armor before things can actually get hit.
Seems pretty well suited to the setting then, nice choice on the system!
There needs to be a good mechanic for looting and scavenging, how does Degenesis handle that? Exploring will also be super important, do you think there should be mechanical rewards for exploration?
Additionally, you could give components a sort of 'secondary HP.'
Damage inflicted when hitting a component damages the machine as a whole but also damages the component. Should the component break, it causes a certain event or renders the machine incapable of taking certain actions.
For example, destroying a grazer's blaze canister causes an explosion centered on the grazer.
But that's a lot of finicky work and should be done when the core mechanics are complete.
there's actually an extensive set of rules for working scrap fields, looting can be pretty well build from there. One thing that I might implement is that certain components like Blaze Canisters if destroyed on a machine won't be lootable as you know, they're broken also when the hell did the Thunderjaw get goddamned laser cannon eyes??
A lot of this is fluffy and written in a setting specific way, but these rules could definitely be used for looting the Metal World.
and damaging a Thunder Jaw's Disc launcher should cause one with 8-12 ammo to spawn at that location while depriving it of the use of said launcher
between the last show build and the final build?
Tackled one for the first time and was really not expecting that, good to know though.
and definitely, most likely we'll need to change it to biome instead of region which is pretty straightforward.
I wish I could use Tigrex tail as a lance immediately upon severing, yet it always requires some forge work to become a usable weapon after being savagely beaten. I imagine this would be even more true with complex machine parts, yes?
Basically it seems like machine parts are used for damn near everything, likely hunting machines isn't just a matter of security but also more or less replaces mining.
oh I don't disagree with this, reduce reuse and recycle that's what Mrs Downie taught us in first grade.
I agree that you should be able to sufficiently maim a monster so that it drops a part of itself, I just think that the beating, more often than not, should render the more complex weapons (firearms)nonfunctional until repairs are made, where as simple weapons (bladed/bludgeoning/stabbing appendages) would require much less delicacy in their removal during combat to remain functional.
So when we write out stat-blocks for the different machines, one thing we'll need to keep in mind for the different components is:
>The amount of additional Successes required when aiming to hit a component.
>Any Armor Rating that the component has, if it's heavily armored.
>The Flesh Wounds of the component (keep in mind, any Flesh Wounds reduced from the component are also reduced from the machine)
>Any event or disadvantage that occurs when the Flesh Wounds of the component is reduced to zero.
this could also provide a niche for Oseram/Utaru players, becoming valuable midcombat repairmen to make use of damaged monster weaponry in the heat of battle.
one thing I think will work best is a component lost automatically deals one point of trauma to a machine.
Could be a good aspect for the scrapper tree. Maybe a more offensive minded branch that turns machine components back on their owner?
I like bundling it in to scrapper, but it might be tricky to balance in regards to "lore"
and gameplay. Would require a fair bit of polish.
True it'd be way down the tree for sure and likely be an end level advance and require some serious gear/a focus/potentials etc. That said, Im likely going to bed keep the thread pumping. One thing that'd be great would be some solid descriptions for the Cultures. Or someone finding a copy of Guerilla's lore bible.
What different trees would the Horizon version of the Scrapper have?
It probably starts with a base rank, for basic looters and scroungers that collect junk from the ruins of the Metal World. From there, it probably splits off:
>Tinkerers and engineers that make their own creations from the wreckage of the Metal World, such as Oseram cannons.
>Researchers along the lines of Sylens, devoted to learning the secrets of the Metal World and turning the Metal World to their advantage, possibly through stuff like overriding and focuses.
Any other routes for a Scrapper, a looter of the Metal World to go down?
I mean, if we have a pet class it sort of makes sense for it to be linked to these guys.
most likely that would be the two major branches though there might be a small offshoot for the Oseram Sparkworker for example.
Actually, that's a possibility.
The second group could branch off into two separate trees - Focus specialists for interfacing with more mundane ancient technology and Overriding specialists, devoting to dominating and directly machines. Then perhaps they could reunite at the end of the branching point, with the final rank being something like "Mastermind" for someone on the level of Sylens.
I had an idea for another thing to do, as the FARO machines can't be reprogrammed, instead you could hollow them out and put an interface to pilot them
Not acceptable in New Tehran, the diverse women of color understand emulating mother nature (Dinosaurs etc) is the only acceptable form for their machines.
I suppose evil white men could make some inferior robotic knock-offs, but they wouldn't survive long against the strong female braves.
Im pretty sure again that defeats the whole point of the machines. They're basically anti-life. They were never meant for piloting just wiping out whatever stood in their way.
That might work the best, After all I'd say dervahl had some of that mastermind flair with his little subplot.
In other news I'm adding in the shit I kinda neglected like ego,backgrounds,wounds....
So, quick feedback question everybody! is any of the language unclear on how things work so far?
It would definitely take a lot of work, but I definitely think you could make some sort of mechanism to use the body of a machine as a vehicle. Obviously with a lot of jury rigging etc.
oh god the /pol/ock is back.
Just ignore him
It was partly because I dislike the idea of unusable enemy equipment, but understand thematically why the older machines are impossible to control
Is that Manchester? Looks a bit like a ruined Manchester Hilton in the background and the red-brick railway arches would fit too....
We can save exploring other regions of the post zero dawn earth for later on after we establish rules for what the game has presented
It's possible. I know they did a lot of location-specific ads for the game, including Edinburgh Castle.
Theres a canal running alongside the main line running North out of the cirty too.... which would also match the image. Not sure how common this building-shape is, I certainly don't remember seeing another like it.
Looks like they only did the location-specific ads in the UK.
community.eu.playstation.com
pretty sure that's where I got the picture from actually.
So any of the fluff guys out there willing to put together some culture descriptions? It'd make my life a hell of a lot easier and start putting some meat on these bare bones we've got.
That's kinda like wanting to play an illithid in a nonevil canpaign
should we also stat out vanilla wildlife as well? bores, coyotes etc.?
couldnt hurt we have a lot of that already really from the base game.
bump