/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls General

Arena also has a pretty pain-by-the-numbers story and setting, and mostly only manages to be interesting by accident.

Daggerfall very clearly has some actual effort put into the story and writing.

busy day huh

I guess a lot of people thought there was no second thread this weekend

Are there any well known adventurers in Elder Scrolls lore besides the main protagonist?

What would it be like if Kirkbride was in charge of oblivion and skyrim?

Topal the Pilot, explored a wild Tamriel.

What's the deal with the Sload? They're neither man nor mer... Are they related to Dreugh?

A mess. Kirkbride is a very good conceptual artist and can write some interessante texts now and then, but thats it. Don't know why people think morrowang was his personal project, but the only things he was credited were the conceptual art and "additional text". Morrowind is much more than MK.

Betmer, I'd say.

Working two 13 shifts. Posting from toilet rn. Didn't even get to lurk the last thread.

Rajhin, Othrok, Mackkan, Raerlas Ghile, Randagulf, Eleidon, Oreyn Bearclaw, Allena Benoch, Emmeg Gro-Kayra, Gromma the Hairless, Amiel Lannus, Derik Hallin, Makela Leki, Felldir the Old, Gormlaith Golden-Hilt, Hakon One-Eye, Gaiden Shinji, Hrothmund the Red.
There's more, but this should be a sufficient answer.

What skills(in a meta sense) would be good for an adventurer of Tamriel?

It depends.

Language and the culture in Tamriel are fairly important things, so can we talk about that?

Why the tribunal would allow daedric to be used as a written language when they focused so heavily on trying to suppress that religion and behavior of cultural practice.

Knowing how to cook and sew probably, and it would really depend on where in Tamriel you are to talk more meta wise about specific skills. I dont feel as compelled to know about astronomy in Cyrodil as I do in Skyrim or Morrowind

To prevent Dunmer culture being assimilated by the Empire?

They didn't really suppress it though. Sure you weren't allowed to walk around questioning the tribunal, but Azura, Mephalia, and Boethiah remained semi-holy, and the tribunal were held as the anticipations of the three daedra. Not to mention one of the most powerful Dunmer organizations, the Morag Tong, was centered around worship of Mephalia, and they weren't interfered with at all by the tribunal.

If anything, the tribunal would prefer the old Velothi religion to the imperial cult.

Dunmeri is mentioned plenty of times and it's clear there is a separate language and culture. It just seems odd that this wouldn't be accompanied with a written form.

For a standard adventurer, just look at the common skills found in the games, or in any roleplaying games. A way to defend yourself, a way to get into places, a way to survive in hostile environments, and a way to get what you want out of people. General things like that.

If you're thinking about legendary adventurers and heroes, they're usually remembered for being exceptionally good at one thing.
We don't know if Rajhin was a good fighter, if he was well spoken, or if he could sew. What he's remembered for is being an outstanding burglar.
Likewise, Othrok is remembered for leading people and winning fights. We don't know if he was a wise druid, a muscled barbarian, or an agile ranger, because it doesn't really matter. His legacy is becoming a duke, leading men and beasts into battle, and winning those battles.

By that point Daedric was probably ingrained as the alphabet of large important things, which is presumably why signs and magic scrolls are written using it in the first place. Trying to oust that would most likely have been like the Catholic Church trying to outlaw Arabic/Hindu numerals for being heathen: It'd look insane, wouldn't work, and would also actually be insane because they're not actually used for heathen purposes very often.

The Dunmeri alphabet probably doesn't appear in game because they didn't want to invent one and/or preferred to assume everybody was speaking and reading the same language(s).

do dead deadra worshipers go to oblivion?

Usually.

Is there a reason why the necromancers and vampires in Skyrim only use frost magic from the destruction school?

So Lorkhan has a few animal aspects, like the fox and snake, but does Akatosh have anything else besides being a dragon? I know I could stretch and say a cat via Alkosh, but every god is kitty in Khajiiti religion.

Dragons are just cats.

"Really big cats"

This seems a good place to ask some questions about lore stuffs.

1. The dunmer were previously chimer, who were biologically identical to altmer. They were altmer, just different culturally. So why when, after azura cursed them, a skin deep curse only, are they now shorter than the altmer?

And if the dunmer breed with any other race, are the children's skin lighter, or is the curse full out ashen skin, no matter how far back you go, azura has claimed this bloodline, etc.
For that matter, how does interbreeding work with the races, sans manmer like bretons, whose elven ancestry is very diluted so they're basically humans plus 1/16th native.

Auriel is depicted as an eagle in ayyleids statues, don't know if thats what you're looking for

Because it's the coolest.

Afaik "race" isn't really a biological thing in TES so much as a magical thing
With interbreeding for example the race of the mother always carries over with potentially a few small traits of the father still apparent

...

Let's go a little more in depth.

We don't know if Azura worshipers go to Moonshadow. Generally, we don't see a lot of specifically-Azura worship. Just one of the three out of the tribunal. Other than being nearly blind, seems Moonshadow would be an alright place to afterlive.

Boethiah worshipers get to betray eachother and politic forever and ever in the afterlife. Assumingly.

People don't really worship Clavicus more than use him. Probably doesn't even have much of a realm left after Umbriel was made.

Worshiping Mora usually means you'll go to Apocrypha while you're alive, if you can, and then you stay there forever. Or you get used up by him. Maybe he'd reward you with knowledge everlasting but honestly who knows?

Hircine worshipers get to hunt or be hunted. Forever.

I wonder if Jygg worshipers do it willingly, or they just had order hearts shoved into them. Who knows.

Malacath worshipers probably don't go to the Ashpit when they die. Or maybe they do. That'd suck.

Worship Dagon and you get to be tormented by his Dremora clans forever and ever and ever.

Mephala probably has a place for worshipers. Somewhere.

Meridia definitely lets mortals stay in her plane. Living or dead.

Molag Bol will probably treat you worse than Dagon. What are even the benefits of worshiping Molag Bol anyways? Seems like a raw deal.

We don't know about Namira as far as I'm aware.

Nocturnal makes Nightingales into shadows. What else she does, we don't know.

Peryite might or might not let mortals into his realm when they die. We don't know. There was that time that some of his followers got stuck in there.

Sanguine ensures all followers get to party hard. Forever.

We know Sheo's got an entire realm populated with his followers. Many of them probably having died to get there.

Vaermina, like Molag Bol, seems to be a raw deal. But she probably subjects her followers to nightmares for eternity.

To expand on what you said about Malacath and Ashpit, in ESO lore, at the "center" of Ashpit is the Ashen Forge, where followers are granted "immortality, abundant food and drink, and constant battle deep within." Although, that's ESO lore so it's up to you whether you want to believe or no. Seeing as how Malacath seems to act like a big brother to his worshipers, I'd like to believe that the Ashen Forge exists within Ashpit.
SOURCE: en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:On_Orcs_and_the_Afterlife

Makes sense. He seems like the kind to reward the most devout and strong of his followers. You know, a lot of people here shit on ESO, but there's some good stuff in it, and ignoring the copy pasted elven buildings, it's done much of the setting justice. Unfortunately, the mistakes and "transcription errors" were a bit too numerous, especially in their Q&A sessions.

You know, rescinding a bit of the mistakes, it isn't as if Skyrim and Oblivion didn't give the series the same treatment. I'd say the biggest factor was probably the artstyle for me. Some of the changes to existing beasties like Kwama and the way they handled Coldharbour. Other than that, though... I think overall I really liked ESO, now that I've given it a chance.

It's come a long way from when this image was made, at the very least.

Like everything else in the game, Zeni has shown to actually listen to feedback and have made changes to improve the game, it's a lot better now than it was at launch, and they seem to be taking much more consideration into being lore friendly rather than blowing off stuff as 'transcription error'.

I guess now that they got 8 million players, they have the budget to make more than generic crap they did at launch.

all of the TES games are made by going into the basement of the dev studios and consulting the real life elder scrolls that tell the events of the world of TES. Games being made from them are a way to share the stories of that world with people. Hence the lore reason being a "transcription error". Because the devs translated the REAL elder scrolls poorly.

>Kirkbride wears tinted sunglasses all the time.
>he has, apparently beyond smoking and being a former alcoholic, not done any sort of hard drug.
>He goes by Merry the Eyesore Elk.
>he writes the most insane and arguably some of the best lore.
>he is the only one who can actually read the Elder Scroll.
>he wears the glasses to hide his slowly fading eyesight from reading it so much.
>his crazy ideas aren't drug fueled but Elder Scroll possesed ramblings much like the Moth Priest do.
>The last game in the series will be from a penultimate reading done by him and others until they fully go blind/crazy.
>Todd Howard will then have to find more who can read from the scroll before it fades out of existence and goes back to Nirn, or wherever Elder Scrolls go when they just decide to go away.

So what exactly is the triangle hair the Bretons and Imperials have? Is it just a graphical thing, or is it based on a real historical hairstyle?

So the first Elder Scroll transcription described Nirn as just a kitchen sink D&D setting? How strange

?

>According to Mankar Camoran, Lorkhan is also a Daedric Prince, although this has never been confirmed.

So what say you, is Lorkhan a Daedric Prince?

We know he is the subgradient to...I believe it was Sithis? Who is a subgradient to Padomay.

Daedric Prince is an arbitrary definition
Daedra are still et'Ada
Before the Convention, when Lorkhan was still around there was no distinction

But what does a Daedric Prince even mean? Omnipotence and your own Oblivion realm, is that it? If so, the real question you must ask is if Nirn is in Oblivion. If so, what is "is Oblivion" and what is "isn't Oblivion"?

And there is the huge Sovngarde question. If that wasn't enough, there is the question of "How come there is no non-Tamrielites in the afterlife". If they have their own, that's a big counterargument against Nirn being Oblivion realm. If they don't have their own and we simply never see them because game design, that's very lazy and unsatisfying.

All in all, I agree with Mankar when he says the Arena is for the powerful to claim, but in my eyes Lorkhan is just the shenanigans spirit of ES pantheon who also happened to sponsor humans just to rustle the jimmies of mer.

Is Arena actually interesting?

>So the first Elder Scroll transcription described Nirn as just a kitchen sink D&D setting? How strange
They were just learning to read it, cut them some slack.

yes, its fun too.

Maybe not a prince, but he could be considered a Daedroth if we're going by the old Aldmeri meaning of "Not our ancestors."

>if we're going by the old Aldmeri meaning of "Not our ancestors."
Does this imply Lorlor would be "our better ancestor" for Chimer?

Hes fucking dead, how can he be better at anything.

Death is the ultimate redpill

Life is suffering, get to the dreamsleeve as fast and as often as possible between your brief and thoroughly unpleasant visits to Mundus

I don't believe Lorkhan is specifically worshiped in Velothi faith, unless you count worshipping people who tap into his power. But then again, he is the opposing force to other mer, so Chimer/Dunmer probably think he's a cool dude.

I enjoyed arena more myself
The first game I played was morrowind though so the might be a generational gap between players

Arena is definately fun, I just find Daggerfall to have superior story, combat, character creation, magic, more features in general

HOWEVER, Jagar Tharn is the best villain in the entire series IMO

Objective Ranking of TES Villains
Dagoth Ur > Miraak > Umaril the Unfeathered > Mehrunes Dagon > Almalexia = Hicrine > Jagar Tharn > Every asshole you don't side with from Daggerfall > Molag Bal = Sheogorath/Jygallag > Harkon > horse armor = taking a piss while you mine stone for your house

>objectively

>Every asshole you don't side with from Daggerfall
I'd put Gortwog higher simply for breaking the Orc stereotype.

>dTF
Why, yes, he/she is.

Debate it, you can't
Daggerfall is difficult. There's not really one main villain. There's the asshole who caused Lysandrius to haunt Daggerfall, any of the nobles who don't like your decisions, the Underking, Gortwog, Mannimarco; a lot of people cause a lot of problems.

Would it be worth picking up Redguard for the story? This scene seems pretty good youtu.be/tEPYlJLvcEM?t=248

redguard currently does not run very well on modern systems. read the reviews on GOG

It's laggy and slow as fuck

The chimer were probably not that tall either, altmeri height may just be exaggerated from selective breeding. Height in general is funny, since you'd think Bretons would be the second tallest race being nedic with Altmeri blood.

Bretons are about 15/16ths native, 1/16th aldmeri.

Ayleid, not Altmeri, silly

Cold preserves corpses?

Boethia, Azura, and Mephala taught Veloth that the world was a test set forth by Lorkhan to ascend beyond mere et'Ada.

>"How come there is no non-Tamrielites in the afterlife"
Probably because they get their own afterlives within the Dreamsleeve. You just don't see them because you aren't an honorary member of [race] like the LDB is honorary Nord.

I would think that there are some Altmer that worship Lorkhan like a fringe sect of satanists IRL.

They might even hold similar beliefs like Veloth, that Lorkhan had created the world as a test, or they may genuinely see life as a blessing, an unpopular view they keep secret

Almalexia isn't a villain and if she is Dagoth Ur is a hero

You fight her in Tribunal. Gameplay-wise she's a villain.

Is that fight unavoidable?

No

You could always avoid that fight and live out your days in Ald'Ruhn.

you have 10 seconds to come up with a conversation topic or your head gets blown off

There are actually plenty in this now Monday thread and you are a prime example of how not to contribute to them.

I'd actually like a TES title that was a more centralized and dare I say linear in both narrative and environments if it meant the journey took you through several provinces and locations and created the illusion of a (more) true to scale Tamriel in the presentation and for example background sets etc that you wouldn't actually get to explore

Dunmer watchtowers are really cool, and it's a shame they didn't make any for Dragonborn seeing as they're a simple tower added on to the base "Mollusk" shell house design.

Eh, I mean I wouldn't mind a few portals to-and-fro between individually smaller maps to make the whole world feel bigger,

Are there any close real world analogues to the conflict between the Khajiit and the Bosmer?

Anglo-Zulu war

>He seems like the kind to reward the most devout and strong of his followers
I disagree with this entirely. The way I see it, Malacath is the god of 'I no longer care.'
He doesn't give his followers rewards because consolation is meaningless to him.

We all know about the strange fauna present on Tamriel, but what about strange flora? Nirnroot glows and produces bell-tones, and there are mushrooms that grow taller than the tallest trees, but what else?

Add Vyrthur above Dagon and Alduin above Molag and the list is good.

>Alduin
Durr, can't believe I forgot him.

yah I was wondering if there were any theories about nirnroot

reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/4qdw78/tiny_towers_a_nirnroot_theory/
I like the idea that they're hist related, but I prefer the one where they're like a proto-hist.
Outside of the quest in oblivion and skyrim, they haven't really told us anything about them though.

Hypothetically, what would be the implications of playing as an Argonian if the Hist were to try a metaphysical coup? Would ANY Argos be able to retain individuality? Also do y'all think there's any significance in the concept of a dragonborn argonian? If the Hist do have ultimate control of them, doesn't that mean the have a way into Aka?

Nirnroots, as we know them, didn't exist until Sun's Death 1E 668. The first eruption of Red Mountain.

I don't think they can just flip the switch on the absolute hivemind, it's probably based on the amount and recency of the consumption of Hist sap
if the 'recalling the Argonians to Black Marsh in anticipation of the Oblivion Crisis' was an absolute thing, there wouldn't be any in other provinces during the actual Crisis

That's a good point.

Is Sovngarde in the Dreamsleeve? There's no indication people are being reincarnated out of it.

Like Ald Velothi here, I like this building too damn much, it's a huge temptation to join Redoran just to see it.

I really can't decide what House to join so I've been putting it off for ages.

Lord Woodborne is arguably the "main" villain of Daggerfall, but that story doesn't really work like the ones in other games.