MTG Standard Bans

>easily broken

1. Not really. It requires very specific cards that you need to keep mana up for
2. While you're holding your answers, you're getting outvalued by Refiners, Whirlers, and Chandras

You could probably make UB robots work.

the problem with saheeli is not the deck itself. its the way the meta reacted to it. As far as I understand, mardu vehicles and gb aggro dominate top 8s because they just shit stomp copy cat. I would not put it past them to ban saheeli under the precedent they set of encouraging diversity with the last bans.

I'm with you man I played Golgari "dredge" and it was fun as hell. My local meta was actaully diverse and had a lot of neat decks like Boros Blink.

Who's ready for "No Changes" Monday?

Twin unban PLEASE. I'm sitting on 50 of the fuckers

Just a reminder that, whether or not anything gets banned, this is now basically 2 solid years of shitty Standard formats, caused by Development's inability to do their jobs and their insistence on never printing decent answers for anything ever despite tons of players asking for it, and that no visible, believable evidence has been given that WotC is going to do anything at all to change this

It's been a downhill for a long time, but the downhill got so fucking steep after BFZ

Even their philosophy is fucking ridiculous. 1 mana dorks are too op but 1 mana 3/2 is fine. Mana Leak is oppressive of a card meanwhile 2 mana Serra Angel is perfectly acceptable.

Control is not fun to play or play against. This Development has heard the call of the masses that buy and play for fun and weakened the oppressive control archetypes.

One huge problem is that they have shit designed so far ahead, that we still got 2 years of this shit design ahead of us. Not that I think the design will get any better after that, I think wizards fucked up really big time and are in a big mess that they are trying to fix by randomly throwing things around.

Do you really think there's any chance they're gonna unban twin???

I firmly believe that Gideon AOZ is the biggest bullshit card printed in the past 2 years. The fucker wins games by himself. All they needed to do would have say damage is dealt to the loyalty counters, not no damage outright.

I still can't believe they thought reflector mage was more oppressive than that massive fucking POS.

>Prevent all damage that would be dealt to him this turn
Read more faggot.

I did read it, I'm saying that all that would be needed for it to be fine is if damage was dealt to the loyalty counters.

Read more faggot.

And who is exactly is having fun when the pendulum is tipped completely in the other direction? The complaints for Creatures The Tappening is just as large.

Also

>trusting what Wizards design/marketing says

The same people who tell us that MTG's playerbase is half women.

That's how loyalty counters work, you obtuse ignoramus.

I really hate that this gideon's art is so bad.

>What's getting banned tomorrow?
Oh please. Bans in standard are extremely rare. Lets not act like there are going to be bans in standard every year.

>Which of the two decks in standard is your favourite?
So there's twice as many decks as when I dropped out now? Cool!

Whoever playtested GW tokens and said it was fine (and don't tell me no one tested it because a goddamned cat could build that fucking deck) is a pile of circumcised foreskins. Shit out X/X+1 tokens, whoever gets an extra anthem out first wins! EXCITING PLAY.

Someone needs to fire MaRo and get someone who knows how to write and design better than your typical 8 year old in there.

GP New Jersey Top 8:
4 Mardu Vehicles
3 Copy Cat
1 Jund Energy

If they don't ban Mardu Vehicles and Copy Cat back into the stone age, they look even more retarded.

felidar banned, walking ballista banned

I got 2 copters on packs and they got a ban, this time I pulled 2 ballistas. It's going to happen again

Creatures the Tappening is literally how you win the game. Control just makes it so a vanilla 2/2 over 10 turns does all the damage while Aggro makes it happen faster.

Standard is now seemingly designed so that you must have several playsets of the newest, bestest, overpowered planeswalker, and a few playsets of whatever ill-advised mythic-rares R&D vomited out this expansion. It is in no way fun anymore and if I want to play magic I'll do another format. But Hearthstone and Force of Will are gaining more and more players from Wotc's idiocy.

>Force of Will
You mean "Weaboo collectible waifus: the cardgame"?

Normie, pls go. The waifu girls are qt as fuck. I prefer looking at them rather than at the cartoonish crap and endless strong women in Magic art.

We'll thank you for pointing out I'd never want to associate with people like you. Get a real girlfriend.

Some day you'll grow up and realize that there's more to life then the approval of your feminist girlfriend and nu-male friends. Good luck with everything, kid.

Damn. *than

Standard Wishlist:

Ban Heart of Kiran
Ban Gideon
Ban Liliana
Ban Saheeli

Print Naturalize & Disenchant

> Ban Heart of Kiran
> Ban Gideon
> Ban Guardian

Hard to say how GB Aggro is going to turn out then, but those are probably the most urgent bans.

This is mostly due to my personal vendetta against Planeswalkers, but I'd rather lose Saheeli than the cat. A proper flicker deck needs to happen.

>he thinks anime isn't normie
>he thinks waifus aren't normie

> one is a mythic
> one is a shitty uncommon

I like flicker effects, but let's be reasonable here - bans are already huge financial blowback. They'll 100% ban the uncommon over the mythic.

I also hate mythics.

So is there any rumors going around about banning anything from G/B? Like Constrictor or something?

I actually can't believe there's talk of banning Saheeli combo or Gideon. We finally have a meta that's diverse enough and fun to play. There's been a serious lack of combo decks in standard and they finally have one that isn't broken and they're just going to oust it? Just seems ridiculous to me.

strawpoll.me/12518292

>I actually can't believe there's talk of banning Saheeli combo
Saheeli combo they ban if they're retarded. It's a combo, it's not that big a deal. We even have storm in the format right now.
>or Gideon
Gideon goes in white. Every deck is improved by Gideon. He's a one-card wincon that you cannot deal with. He's the definition of bannable.
>We finally have a meta that's diverse enough and fun to play.
lel

> We finally have a meta that's diverse enough and fun to play.

Literally 100% of the last 4 GP Top 8s were either Mardu Vehicles, Copy Cat or BG Aggro.

Diversity my ass.

That's not true re Gideon. G/B isn't improved by Gideon (obviously) but it's a good enough deck that it can beat a deck with Gideon in it. Same goes for Saheeli.

That's fine. 3 top tier decks are good with some amount of tier 1.5 decks in the mix too. As long as the decks are all 1, similar in their core but with enough room for variance, 2, balanced against each other.

This keeps the meta somewhat reliable where people can make a SB plan based on logic/what they're likely to face. Having a whole bunch of different decks makes sideboarding a total crap shoot and increases the luck factor in the game in general.

Give you an example, if I know the top 3 decks are x, y, and z I can use skill to determine what are good main and SB options. But if my local game store just has a bunch of random brew decks that were never kept in check by higher power level decks then the meta becomes too volatile and unpredictable making playing more like Bingo than Magic.

Ballista won't be banned. It's an answer, not a threat.

It's not MaRo. The design of those cards was fine. It's development, because they're the ones who set the power, price, etc behind those concepts and decided what would and wouldn't be in standard.

I don't think it's possible to emphasize enough that Development has fundamentally and profoundly failed at the most basic aspects of their jobs

Of course it's him. He's the big cheese.

Bottom line: Something needs to be done, they're at a critical juncture here. The game was gaining popularity at a fairly rapid rate and now has petered off again (due mainly I glean for backlash of having the rotation too often). Now that the rotations are back to normal they have a window to make the game great again. For that we can't have Mark just playing in his sandbox with all his great ideas, someone needs to keep the guy in check.

I secretly hope that someone is just a box of Ravnica City of Guilds, Time Spiral and Lorwyn with angry googly eyes for him to have staring contests with until he gets the point.

Theros/Rav was awesome.

I'm really scared that for some reason they'll ban Torrential Gearhulk.

When he's talking about the set during the pro tour in those little clips they run and how excited he is about these new cards. Makes me want to punch him right in the throat.

>We finally have a meta that's diverse enough and fun to play

Not bait at all. I stand by it for these reasons:

Well, 2/3's for Theros block was awesome. Born of the Gods was pretty underwhelming.

I'd rather they all exist in relative balance.
I miss Time Spiral Standard...

Went to GP NJ this weekend ant finished at 3-6,
It was my first GP and I never really practice or play standard. How did I do?

Then you did ok considering the lack of preparation you had prior.

Guardian requires a ban. The card is too good even outside of the combo (at least 2 combos exist with that fucking cat right now)

Either Heart of Kiran or Scrapheap Scrounger (or both), Heart being a vehicle that doesn't really lose any tempo and can be crewed by walkers easily, Scrapheap for being a creature thats too easy to return and crew with with no real fast answers to it in this meta.

Gideon should be banned since he was going to rotate anyway before they changed the rotation schedule., Another year with Gideon would be unbearable.

Maybe ban Marvel as well, and if they do bring back Emrakul.

They're not going to ban Heart it's basically treated as smuggler's copter's replacement

Theres no way that they planned to ban Copter and bring in a replacement in the following set.

I haven't played Standard in a long time, but I can remember as recently as Innistrad/Ravnica where creatureless decks were viable.

>they will ban Felidar Guardian
>they should ban Gideon but they might not because he's the "face" of Magic and one of the only cards from BFZ to see play
>They might ban Heart of Kiran

Vehicles seem like a classic "new card we don't understand so we printed too many good ones" mechanic, just like the swords in Mirrodin and JTMS in Worldwake.

Magic tends to err on the side of either realism or abstract art, but in neither way does it make itself look cartoonish. Force of Will is just literal cartoons like Yugioh and probably attracts the same teenage crowd.

>plays a card game just to stare at more tits

Can't you jack off at home man?

This is just not how their development process works, and the reason that we think that's how it works is because MaRo is basically the only person involved in making magic who is actually good at communicating with the public, which is a problem on its own but it's a separate problem.

The division between development and design is a basic one and all the most profound issues with standard right now stem from things that are really, really obviously development issues. Things like how powerful removal is, what mana cost planeswalkers are, how efficient you should make your efficient artifact semi-creatures that everyone can play, noticing and avoiding stupid infinite combos - none of that is MaRo's responsibility. That stuff is all explicitly dev stuff.

Also: there are actually sets that we can look at and explicitly say that they're too influenced by MaRo, and they have completely different issues from the current sets (and also are from a long time ago). Urza's Destiny and Odyssey have their issues but they're very different from BFZ and OGW. I have my issues with MaRo but I really can't see how much of what's been going on the last few sets is a problem with MaRo or his department. They've been good. It's not their fault that Smuggler's Copter loots on blocking or that Felidar Guardian targets permanents.

BG isn't actually a good deck

Also, just because combo exists doesn't mean it's good for the format. there are still degenerate or just unenjoyable combo decks & i would argue Copy Cat falls into that category.

>re MaRo and friends
The division is a basic one? That statement doesn't even make any sense. If what you're trying to say is that there's a heavy contrast between development and design that's just not true. They basically work hand-in-hand magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/latest-developments/designing-development-2014-04-04. If you think MaRo doesn't still have some responsibility/influence in development you're completely naive.

>BG isn't actually a good deck
How do you figure? You wouldn't have lasted very long in University without backing up your statements. From what I've seen the deck performs exceptionally well. It has potential for explosive nut openers but doesn't need them to win. I won a game at FNM yesterday with 2 lands in play and a Servant as my only mana sources.
>combo not good for format
It's perfectly healthy to have a combo in the format. We've had them in the past and they add a new element to the game. I actually enjoy playing against it because it really keeps you on your toes; making sure you save your answers for the right time and keep pressure on them. I haven't lost more than a handful of games to it.

I feel like the naysayers are the reason we can't have nice things. Go play limited. Please.

They plan and set up sets years in advance. They had no time to really prepare a "replacement" for the copter being banned. They simply though having 2 crazy strong 2 mana cars would be good for standard.

>Which of the two decks in standard is your favourite?
Neither. I'm still playing R/G energy with Pummeler. I normally just play modern but I really enjoyed Pummeler at the KLD prerelease so I decided to build it. I gotta say, I've been having a lot of fun with it.

Gideon may very well see a ban since they've likely sold through most of BFZ

bans when?

>Calls out anecdotal evidence
>"It's perfectly healthy to have a combo in a format...I actually enjoy playing against"

any reason you aren't an hero yet user?

What else can you play besides the top decks in standard these days? Even if they banned Heart of Kiran, the Cat, and the Snake, people would just carry on playing the same decks but without those cards because even without them, they're better decks than the rest of the format.

couple of hours

Banned: Saheeli, Heart of Kiran, Winding Constrictor

>We finally have a meta that's diverse enough and fun to play.

You print cards knowing they're potentially busted and then turn around saying "oh we didn't test this enough" or "we didnt think it would be this good"

How can you print a colorless tutor with a good body and flying, and then say that to everyone with a straight face?

>We finally have a meta that's diverse enough

HAW HAW HAW

This is one of the least diverse, most restrictive standard environments in recent memory.

We're barely two steps removed from Caw-blade levels of no-fun

Not tutor, looter

fuck me I'm tired

Forgive us plebs but a lot of us don't actually attend GPs and PTQs and actually care more about facing a diverse range of decks at FNM so we get a bunch of fun and different games in than we do about reliable side-boarding that let's us up hour win-percentage by 2%

TL;DR: Pseudo-Pros comprise a tiny minority of the playerbase and they and their preferences can go boil their heads

Pummeler is the sole reason i started playing Standard. R/G energy is such a fun deck to pilot.

Spikes make up a large part of the community. It's one of the three main profiles in magic for a reason. If you want high variance, edh is just a table away.

>S-Standard attendance is dying! We need to do something!
>I got it! Let's ban the cards that are making the most dominant decks, dominant!
>That surely won't bother the casual players that are either forced to change their decks to the new meta halfway though normal rotation and spend even more money to play a boring format, and possibly have had spent hundreds of dollars on said over hyped cards!

If your local fnm only fields top tier decks and you're showing up with a homebrew, you need to go to a less competitive lgs. Or just git gud.

And there were no bans at all. What are your feelings about this fa/tg/uys?

Hahahaha, holy fuck, I can't believe what I'm reading. No bans so this shitfest will continue for AT THE VERY MINIMUM 1.5 months, possibly more.

I can't believe that there are people that STILL play this meme format and waste more money on it than a Legacy / Modern / EDH deck would cost. I wouldn't play this joke of a format even if it was free

I'm so sick of the people who argue against bans because of cards value. If the format is unhealthy then Wizards should act. People need to realize that draft is the most popular format and the one wizards build their sets for. Standard is only a thing so that you have something to do with the cards you open after drafting

Abzan was worse
Mono black devotion VS UW control was also worse.

Make no mistake this standard format isn't very good (especially since Shadows was and EDM were both quite diverse) but it's not even in the running for most obnoxious standard.

>Kiki-Jiki + Pestermite combo exists for a decade
>Miss the Exarch + Twin combo in Standard
>Twin combo is a premiere Modern deck, additionally it works with with Restoration Angel and Village Bell-Ringer as well
>Miss the exact same shit a few years later

How fucking hard is doing a ctrl+f "copy" check when you draft up a blink creature?

What's the over/under on Magic dying within the next 10 years

>Innistrad
>recent

Sup gramps

>legacy
>cheaper than standard

user, I....

Also, Modern is a dull format to play.

I keep thinking this. Not that those were bad, but more that people bitched and moaned about how awful those standards were, and history is repeating as it does.

But the problem is, what's different now that's made wizards react? I think they said attendance has dropped a lot, which is why they did Showdowns and such, and probably the bans as well, so okay, but why has attendance dropped now? People have complained about how horrible every single standard for as long as I've payed any attention to it (around SOM-INN standard), and I'm sure before then it was mostly more of the same. Why is it so bad this time? Did people finally get fed up? Or is there really something about this standard that's genuinely worse? People have been saying "too strong creatures, too weak answers" mantra for a while as well, but Wizards has only just now acknowedged it. The situation just feels weird. I don't even really play standard, I just pay attention to the format and rumblings about it, so maybe that's contributing to my problem, but I just don't understand what's different this time.

>Legacy
>Buy one 2500 dollar deck
>Play forever

>Standard
>Buy 1 200-500 dollar deck
>Play for 3-5 months