Warmachine/Hordes General /warmahordes/

Not a Ret player, but I'm pretty happy for them.

Any of you guys doing CID testing? What do you think of how the Burtonkin play?

DIE CID SCUM

Interesting.

The Heretic is fucking strong.

The Arcana are cool, but some of them are kinda easy to play around. They often make the faction very infantry-focused, as the useful ones tend to trigger when a warrior model is hit and confer upon them the most benefits.

Their beasts are honestly kinda meh, which makes Arcane like The Child's and The King of Nothing's sort of Skornergetic.

>According to the IKRPG the prerequisite to be a priest of Menoth, Morrow or Thamar you must be human
You don't think this is just because those are literally human gods (two of whom were actual humans before ascending)?

I don't think there is some kind of cosmological prohibition on worshiping the god of another species, there's just no benefit to doing so, because the gods only care about creatures they created.

For the purpose of the RPG, it's a rule because, while an elf priest of menoth isn't strictly impossible, it is DEEP in special snowflake territory.

Their rules are pretty interesting. Still pretty sure I hate them from high-concept / model design standpoint, but the actual rules and execution are good.

They're so far outside the established paradigm that it is really hard to get a grip on whether they're actually competitive or not. They have some good tricks, but no one caster that's really going to blow things up. King of Nothing probably comes the closest, being a reclaimer-style control caster.

For tourney play, I think they may end up just being a novelty, but some casual players might find a breath of fresh air with them.

If they still have 10 weaponmasters for 12 points on release, they'll be competitive.

>CID DIE
It's because you fed him the rotten fish.

>If they still have 10 weaponmasters for 12 points on release, they'll be competitive.
If that approach alone was enough to make a faction competitive, Cryx players would have nothing to complain about. The dreadrots skew the INTERNAL balance of the faction pretty hard, but by themselves they won't see you to top tables at a major event.

And before someone says "But... but.. muh banes aren't 12 points WAAHHH", I know that. Nor should they be.. bane thralls still hit far harder. The point is that "jam 50 or 60 hard hitting infantry down the opponent's throat" is Cryx's patented style, and even after being nerfed they are still good at it... and it's just not enough, not against top level competition.

Running a list with 60 dreadrots looks a heck of a lot like running a list with 60 mechanithralls. If your opponent doesn't have the volume of attacks to deal with it, you'll roll over them. If they do (or if they have a hard counter like scathers or mass covering fire), you're out of luck.

Just advance them behind 4 Burning Ashes and you're good to go.

heard skorne stuff was spoiled anyone know whats was let out?

Do you mean Chiron and Morghoul3?

Anyone got a good sheet for IKRPG?

Comparing stuff across factions is retarded, but even if you do, it's obvious as to why Dreadrots are just straight up better than either Banes or Mechthralls. They're much cheaper than banes and hit much harder than McThralls. Hell, in Bump in the Night they net you so many free points that they end up being as cheap as McThralls. This puts them in the sweet spot of "cheap and spammable" and "hit hard enough to damage heavies". You can't spam Banes because they're expensive and restricted by an FA, and McThralls can be spammed but they don't do shit all anyway.

This is all ignoring the extra utility Dreadrots bring:
>provide corpses to other models in the faction by either dying or killing things
>ignore Tough and RFP with their attacks

Grymkin also has a much easier time delivering them with shit like denial Arcana, King of Nothing cloud wall, Wanderers Starcrossed and Fog of War, and Dreamer's Artifice of Deviation.

tl;dr you don't know what the fuck you're talking about

Nothing fully spoiled outside the trade soliciation giving us Morghoul3's feat and specs on Chiron's gun.

It was before the internet! I didn't have a Guide! I didn't know! GOD DAMN YOU I DIDN'T KNOW!

So how well would Skarre2 work with nothing but Satyxis models? What jacks does she like? I'm trying to build a Skarre list and maybe one of the Goreshades just to see what all the bitching is about

What was his feat?

Satyxis are still one of the best units in the game, and the competitive Cryx lists really crutch on them

Anyone got a Cygnar fluff synopsis since Mk3 began? Like what the fuck all is happening besides Julian being king and Caine going rogue.

Cygnar invaded Llael.

...

Choose, humans of Veeky Forums.

Menoth
Morrow
Thamar
Fuck the gods, I make my own way
Toruk

Just print it out from the back of the core book.

Pledge allegiance to the spirit of the motherland and follow whatever direction her talons point at.

So Menoth or Morrow.

Julian shouted FUCK KHADOR at the top of his lungs, tore off his shirt, proposed to the last Llaelese princess, ordered a large-scale counter-offensive that has pushed Khador back past the Thornwood, and rallied troops to march on Llael and fuck up anyone not waving a Llaelese flag.

So yeah, he's pretty great.

>no Devourer Wurm option

I bet Menites did this.

Oh right, I forgot those faggots technically count as humans too.

So yes, the Wurm is another option.

How does this look as a first 75pt list?

I've been playing 25pt games to test out some of the units i've been picking up, i really love the assassins.

I also would love to use the doom reavers in a list, but i'm not sure how actually good they are

>Elara still not released
>can't start precursor Ret

The good:
- This is a really good list for a night of chips and beer with some buddies.
- Everything (except for the doomreavers) in that list likes having Tactical Supremacy
- The Manhunter and the Doomreavers both GREATLY appreciate your caster's feat

The bad:
- Battle Mechanics are overpaid. You don't need a max a unit and you don't need the officer, especially if you only have two things they can repair.
- Winter Guard wants Rocketeers and Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich. Without, they will underperform
- Your shooting infantry units don't get a whole lot out of Kozlov. You certainly want a range option no doubt, but you should pick between the two. Running a third melee unit (or better, a Jack) to put Fury on and giving them +2 speed would be appreciated.
- Kodiaks like to operate in pairs. You usually either run 2+ or none at all.
- Kayazy Assassins are a fine unit, but they operate better with a caster who can make them blast immune. Not a total grip in the toilet, but a sup-par choice.
- You only have the Doom Reavers for reliable Armor Cracking. Both of your jacks are quite pillow fisted at POW 16 and you only have two of them.

Then there's some stuff that can use tuning (for example Manhunters are worse than kayazy Eliminators in terms of power level and Kozlov would like Sylys around for help with his MANY upkeep spells, rather than a Dog)

Running out of words. If you want some simple fixes:

Option 1: Ditch the Rifle Corps for a Juggernaut and transform the Mechanics into a min-unit without the officer. For those 5 points, you can add a second Manhunter or Kayazy Eliminators.

Option 2: Replace the Widowmakers and Marksman with a second Kodiak and replace the Mechanic Officer, the Manhunter and the Dog with Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich and 3 Winter Guard Rocketeer attachments.

Option 3: Really easy, assuming you have the Khador Battlebox. Just play what you see in the picture.

Them's dick sucking lips right there.

is this game finally dead

We did it Veeky Forums, it's over. We finally killed the game. It's time to go home to our families and rest.

Long live the new skub

Same as the old skub.

I loved this game

Once.

Now to see it suffering and dying slowly; desperately. Its nearly too much.

I got into warmachine just as Mk2 launched and when I first moved into my college dorm, I cant believe its been so long.

Its like seeing your dog dying.

I think one of the issues with Dreadrots is they can come with a caster who cloudwalls very effectively and does weird shit when they die. That being said, their personal stats are pretty garbage even being backed up by a Battle engine defensively, so time will tell. A lot of the faction seems to be based around denial and rules-stacking because the baseline unit and warbeast stats are pretty underwhelming (I'm looking at you, Skin-And-Moans).

As a note on that, between an extensive focus on spamming marginally-stated but hard hitting infantry and casters with great spell lists Grymkin feels like what Mk3 Cryx wanted to be but didn't manage in my opinion.

Thanks for the advice man, this really helps.

I Wanted to take the Kodiak just to drop the clouds for defending melee advances. I figured one was enough, but i could definitely pick up a second, I can see how having two would be better than a single.

I really like the rifle corps, so i think i'll pick up a kovnik joe and some rocketeers.

I decided to try out the second option, hopefully it'll perform better than what i was trying to do.

>tfw one of the local Khador players has the surname Gligorovich

The problem with the one 4" cloud is that it doesn't block all that much, considering the angles. Where as two clouds right next to each other, hide 8" worth of models. Not worthless by any means, just inefficient.

I personally am not a fan of Kodiaks for Kozlov in the first place. Since they bring native pathfinder and Kozlov is going to give his battlegroup Pathfinder anyway, I prefer to just going with beefy beatsticks. My rule for casters is usually: Do they give pathfinder easily? Yes: Juggernaut, No: Kodiak.

But that really is nothing but simple preference, because I don't like to "waste" rules text, if that makes any sense. For the same reason, I don't bring Clamjacks with Kozlov either, since they are already immune to knockdown anyway (but they are really happy about Pathfinder, so that's that)

Doom Reavers aren't the most competitive thing Khador can run at the moment, but thanks to Kozlov's Feat, you will certainly be able to make them work well enough.

That's pretty cool.

>I got into warmachine just as Mk2 launched and when I first moved into my college dorm, I cant believe its been so long.

>Get into Warmachine a year before MK3 drops
>Pick Cryx, because I like the idea of roboliches and cyberzombies and prefer melee over ranged combat
>Convince my club to pick it up as well
>Love the game to death, so much mechanical complexity compared to 40k
>News of MK3 arrives, can't be more hype
>Loads of pre-orders; starter kit for Agathia, card deck, rulebook, Wraith Engine, other stuff which looks like it'll be fun to play
>MK3 drops. Rules need day-1 erratas. Agathia looks like she's made out of playdough and is missing her head
>PP continually acts shifty when questioned about rules, takes 3 months before they send me a new head
>Issues which were "working as intended" get errata'ed
>Cryx turns out to be dogshit in MK3
>Shooting turns out to be godlike in MK3
>PP announces they're going digital-only, the MK3 cards I bought are now worthless, have to either buy their Warroom app or deal with shitty home printouts
>PP kills the Press Ganger program
>PP shuts down their forums to quell dissent

I wouldn't even care if the game died tomorrow at this point.

New Cryx player is having his first game tomorrow at my LGS.

We know for sure that it at least grants Acrobatics, Overtake, and Parry. It's unknown if that is it or if it is restricted to battlegroup only.

>It was before the internet! I didn't have a Guide! I didn't know! GOD DAMN YOU I DIDN'T KNOW!
Yeah. I didn't figure out I could save him until the 2nd time I played through it on the PS. I got the ninja guy killed too.

Pretty sure he means the Old Witch.

>>Get into Warmachine three months before MK3 drops
>Pick Ret because I'm an incorrigible weeaboo at heart
>get shit on by Cygnar, Mk3 journeyman league is nearly stillborn, but paint my elfs regularly regardless
>mfw all the spoilers dropped last week

I don't care if the game "dies" either, some of those renders are fucking amazing and can warm my shelf any day.

Is this disgusting? Or does it need more rockets?

You may want to switch Riflemen out for the cheaper Infantry.

Who do we never see Satyxis Gunslingers in lists?

because we never see cryx

Basically how I feel about Circle. I love my puppers.

Try something like this

conflictchamber.com/#b41b0Ie_193a3bge1N1P1N1P7k9u2x

Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points

(Skarre 2) Skarre, Queen of the Broken Coast [+26]
- Barathrum [15]
- Deathripper [6]
- Erebus [16]
- Scavenger [7]
Satyxis Gunslingers [7]
Satyxis Raiders (max) [16]
- Satyxis Raider Sea Witch [3]
Satyxis Raiders (max) [16]
- Satyxis Raider Sea Witch [3]
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist [4]
Ragman [4]
Satyxis Raider Captain [4]

Drop into jack spam and feed back them to death. Pair with something that plays into dudespam and hordes like Gaspy3 or a generalist coven.

This.
Babushka is only answer.
>Motherland is of in trouble
Menoth:cygnar is of strong get fugged khador
Morrow:Loldon't care
Thamar:Loldon't care
Toruk: I is reason for trouble
Babushka: I SUMMON MEMES FROM HYPERHELL TO MAKE KEBAB OF ENEMY OF MOTHERLAND

>If that approach alone was enough to make a faction competitive, Cryx players would have nothing to complain about.
But Cryx doesn't have 10 weapon masters for 12p. And they need a UA for tough.

Thanks Boss man. Is there anyway to make he other caster in the pair Goreshade?

Let me remind you that cryx was undisputed master of competitive for 2/3rds of the games lifetime. People just got used to playing against undead cryxian hobos that everybody tailored their strategies and lists in order to deal with cryx. Such gems like people laughing at the ending of vengeance where striker2 assassinated Terminus, something near impossible to do against a competent cryx player back in MK2. Or how whiners used to be quoted:
>Want to win? Buy cryx.

Spare me your tears soulless undead abomination and taste my glorious elven dicksword.

Only baddies complained about Cryx though, Cryx had very few tournament wins. Not to mention the good Cryx infantry unit was Satyxis Raiders, not Bane Thralls.

Can someone rank Ret jacks, please?

>Cryx had very few tournament wins
If by few you mean the majority, yeah.

>Cryx turns out to be dogshit in MK3

Why are Cryx players such children?

Cryx can still easily construct high tier lists. You are in nowhere near the level of shit that guys like Minions, Ret, or even Khador were in in MKIII.

MKII, sorry.

1. Imperatus
2. Hyperion
3. Discordia
4-x Irrelevant

>I don't play Ret

The Banshee, the Phoenix and the Chimera are not irrelevant.

Really through Ret is one of those factions where your warjacks really do depend on what 'caster you're running.

I was memeing you autist. Almost all of Ret's jack have a place somewhere.

>Using the word "meme" in any context whatsoever in an unironic fashion
Kill yourself my man.

What is the mk3 Battlebox meta? Which is the one to rule them all?

Khador seems to be top dog, but it has a 10/90 matchup against the Circle Box.

Trolls have by far the best warnoun out of all the boxes, but the beast selection is awful.

>can construct high tier lists

if by easily you mean "choose one of two good casters left in the faction" then yes, it is easy. For those of us who don't want to play witch coven, we have to deal with having a stable of pretty mediocre casters. If our infantry (and jacks) didn't depend on our casters so much, it'd be neat.

I don't want to go back to MK 2 power level. I just want more interesting options. I'm not super into Satyxis, and that's the only infantry you can play in this faction, because they're reasonably priced and stand up on their own without too much support. I want the undead units to be viable.

It also sucks to have to fight a gunline that can deal with stealth and clouds (all of them where I play). Having a faction that does not play well into shooting when the meta is such that shooting is top-tier is pretty awful. This is why Witch Coven is so powerful right now, they are an anti-gunline caster.

If you look at tournaments where you can see the lists, Cryx players who placed have pretty similar cookie-cutter lists where the same few casters/models show up. Outside of that, the faction's not great. I would agree though- better than MKII minions. Though I'd disagree with MK II Khador, especially towards the end of MK II.

>Daemon
Check mate atheists.

mk2 Khador had one playable Caster and two useful units (and not even that after DEF skew became irrelevant).

Eat shit Cryx. Welcome to the bottom for once and carry your one-trick pony status for the next years.

>if by easily you mean "choose one of two good casters left in the faction" then yes
Are you talking about every Hordes faction here? Even Skorne with their super duper amazing errata only really run Rasheth/Makeda1 in tournaments these days.

>666
>likes red
>in the thrall of spite and wrath

Holy shit it's the Devil.

Even satan hates Cryx

Wouldn't you rather be in a place of balance where nobody has to be at the bottom? I don't like seeing any faction having balance issues. I always thought Butcher 3 was the hero Khador needed, and Ruin was (and is) pretty damn awesome.

I saw Khador at MK 2 tournaments a LOT where I played, and they did well, though I would say they did have an over-reliance on mercenaries (a lot like Cygnar).

I would jump ship and play my Cephalyx (or any other faction that's more interesting) full-time, but Warmachine has all but dried up where I play. Mk 3 seems to have been one heck of a turd.

>If you look at tournaments where you can see the lists, Cryx players who placed have pretty similar cookie-cutter lists where the same few casters/models show

To be honest, this is how all armies look at the competitive level.

For example, Ret. In the new edition they have plenty of options, right? But when you face a Ret player in a tournament, there's a 90% chance you'll be facing off against Ossyan or Issyria, or maybe Elara if they're one of a the few that have her. And they'll be running Sentinels or Invictors, probably both, because why the fuck not? They'll have three Arcanists and Sylys, and a MHA or two. Imperatus will be there.

>Are you talking about every Hordes faction here? Even Skorne with their super duper amazing errata only really run Rasheth/Makeda1 in tournaments these days.
It's amazing that people still believe that.

>Wouldn't you rather be in a place of balance where nobody has to be at the bottom?

Not the same guy, but sure.

>Mk 3 seems to have been one heck of a turd.

I don't know why people think this. I mean, there are still balance issues, but none of them are as severe as they were in MKII.

Yeah, you've pretty much got it. Khador is one of the best while Trolls is one of the worst. 3 light beasts just doesn't cut it against the other battle boxes.

I used to play right after Mk.II dropped. How is the Protectorate of Menoth these days?

Pretty damn strong. Pick any caster and wreck faces. Only exemplars are mostly bad. Oh and Skyhammers are still terrible.

>Guys I know Zaal1 with triple Karax and Sentries didn't get touched by the errata when we weren't considered close to competitive, but really, I swear it's a good list now!

I'll admit- as a Cryx player, I have more reason to be salty about MK 3 than most. I do think the factions are closer in power overall. MK 2 top tier factions vs MK 2 minions wasn't even a game.

But like I said, ever since MK 3 dropped and people had time to read the rules, a lot of players have dropped their stuff and moved on.

Not just Cryx players, though I'm one of the only Cryx players still left.

I think MK 3 failed to deliver on a few promises that people thought were essential. It is kind of insulting that they insist it was playtested for as long as it was.

I know that tournament level play can get a bit same-y, but I think specifically with Cryx it's worse now than ever before. I saw a wide array of caster choices and model choices in MK 2 because everything was good.

I do think it's funny though that PP mentioned wanting to reduce the number of auto-include models in factions (and used it as a justification for nerfing Skorne beast handlers), and ended up creating more (or at least keeping the number stable).

You don't actually play Skorne, do you?

>I do think it's funny though that PP mentioned wanting to reduce the number of auto-include models in factions (and used it as a justification for nerfing Skorne beast handlers), and ended up creating more (or at least keeping the number stable).

What's annoying is this only requires very small fixes.

For example, Banes. They don't need Weaponmaster back. They actually function fine as killers of small to large based infantry, rather than the tactical nukes they were in MKII. They just need to a cheaper, FFS. Just a little cheaper.

For the aforementioned problem of Sentinels overshadowing stuff in Ret? Well, they just need to give MHI a bit more punch and a more prominent role. Give them a mini-feat that extends their threat or allows them to work around things that Sents can't. Give them a distinct place.

Which is kind of a shame, because Ragnor is super cool.

I feel like Banes are without a place right now. I think that place is support- second line infantry that take out heavies after your first jamming wave hits. They are expensive infantry that hit really hard and have super pathfinder , but have mediocre defensive stats and die to pow 10 shooting, with no way to change that. Their UA gives tough and a mini feat that encourages going after infantry. They could certainly do with a reduction in price. Especially compared to the spookytown pumpkin heads, 12 points for weaponmaster tough infantry vs 23 points. I don't think banes would be fair at 12 points, but I think 17 for the base unit is too much considering what they do now (and how they lost stealth).

I would bet good money that instead of changing other things, PP would nerf sentinels. They did it with Trolls and the Warders.

I think small fixes are easier with a unit that's bad vs a unit that's too good. Nobody likes nerfs, but buffing other things to being them up to the power level of a powerful thing is a dangerous precedent.

If they could nerf/sidegrade sentinels in a way that they retained their use, but did it differently (and still well) it could also be a thing.

Man, I always ran Kreoss2 and Exemplars. Glad the faction is doing well overall, though. I love me some religious zealotry in my make believe army men factions.