What's the worst Planeswalker card ever printed?

:)

See
Seconding this. I've brewed with madness a whole bunch personally and you need to be able to choose what to discard.

Tibalt actually did have fringe viability in Modern strategies using dredge but then along came Cathartic Reunion which gives you what you want a whole lot faster for an even better cost.

Tibalt is most likely the worst. Now, number two? The second worst? Well, browsing all the planeswalkers we've ever seen I think I'd nominate Jace, the Living Guildpact.

He's really bad. Remember his +1 doesn't isn't Sleight of hand - no card goes to your hand. You can't even choose to mill both if you don't want either.
And this is just after he has 'ascended' to become the Guildpact.

If any planeswalker card is a contender to threaten Tibalt's grasp on #1 shitty planeswalker, it's this guy.
That being said, his -3 at least gives nice utility and his ultimate is fairly strong Vs a control deck and not very difficult to reach.

Tibalt, worse than Nahiri?

By an enormous margin, both as a card and a character, and I don't like Nahiri as a character.

Nahiri as a character is literally just ZEN block Nissa.

I missed these threads

Still Tibalt, the only 'walker who can't enhance a board state for shit.

Have you heard of our lord and saviour 5 mana jace?

Well he's not amazing but he's not bad. He does what you need him to and provides sufficient distraction for your enemies, a solid 6.5/10 walker.

Tibalt actually has a build-around deck that makes him barely decent.
Sarkhan the Mad is so bad he's not even worth meme status.

>Top 5
Jace, the Mind-Sculptor
Liliana of the Veil
Dack Fayden
Eslpeth, Knight-Errant
Ajani Vengeant

>Bottom 5
Chandra Nalaar (Soon the new PW deck Liliana, there's no way she can be good at 7cmc)
Ajany Unyielding
Jace, the Living Guidlpact
Tibalt, the Fiend-Bloooded
Sarkhan, the Mad

Jace 5 is good, and fair. He's just shy of being really good.
Even his -2 could have been slightly better by allowing for bouncing more than just creatures. I understand they probably wanted to avoid getting clues bounced out of existence, but it would have been pretty cool if they still allowed for enchantments.
"-2: Return target creature or enchantment to its owner's hand" would really suit the 'Unraveler' of Secrets name too.

They really should to try and push 5, 6 and 7 mana planeswalkers over 3 and 4.
Liliana, the Last Hope is nice - but it seems like all of their effort was put into her while Jace and Tamiyo were afterthoughts. Lame.

I think he meant this one who is an absolute monster in sealed deck/draft

Fuck. Forgot the pic

Fucking phone. Its memory adept

>(Soon the new PW deck Liliana, there's no way she can be good at 7cmc)

YOU. IDIOT.

The PW Deck cards are not supposed to be good and are not supposed to be standard/modern/eternal playable. They are made for beginners.

When will you fucking fa/tg/uys get it?

Except Nahiri knows exactly what she's doing while Nissa was just a retard messing with shit that was far beyond her comprehension.

I think the point is that we have so many in-set planeswalkers that are objectively worse than those starter deck planeswalkers.

The PW deck UB Tezzeret is better than the AER Tezzeret lol

Go away, Chicken.

>playing fnm at your local shop
>this guy slaps your anime waifu sleeves' ass
wat do

All of them, really. They're bad design.
Narrow design space, impossible to balance, either irrelevant or OP, 90% rehashes of the same characters nobody likes, dilute the concept of the player being the Planeswalker, and exist as the main justification for the Mythic rarity tier.

Oh, and let's not forget those atrocious """Planeswalker Decks""" they're trying to foist on us.

The precon walkers are intended to be weaker.
The fact that intent and reality do not always align does not negate that the intent was still there.
After all, Tarmogoyf was intended to be a silly, mediocre card whose only purpose was to hint at planeswalker cards existing, and Siege Rhino was intended to be a counter to First Response decks.

Exile him.

You fags are even worse than the Pokemon genwunners. Jesus Christ.

>he likes the design of new pokemon

Heh

Tezzerat is betterin the PW deck than the booster one, would say the ajani is better as well desu

...

>Ajani Unyielding in the same tier as Tibalt
Really?

>Talking shit about ma nigga Cutiefly

What you fuck is wrong with you user?

>awful outside of mono-black or black heavy decks
>Can't protect itself
>only walker that can kill itself the turn you play it with just it's minus ability
>Ult does nothing impactful

so you're playing 4 mana to tutor a basic swamp or kill a creature if your mono black,
sure edh trash loves it, but its really fucking bad.

Swamps matter is fun.
Korlash is fun.

If only the ult was something like summon an x/x where x is the number of swamps you control or each swamp you control has tap: summon a 2/2 zombie, so it could be a finisher for a casual mono black deck.

What are you going to do with a bunch of black mana that late in the game, hard cast Emrakul or something?

Explain how he's wrong.

Exsanguinate

>impossible to balance, either irrelevant or OP
But there are several playable planeswalkers and literally only 1 that got banned for being OP

>90% rehashes of the same characters nobody likes, dilute the concept of the player being the Planeswalker
This has literally nothing to do with the card type, but strictly lore (who even gives a shit about the lore?)

>and exist as the main justification for the Mythic rarity tier
WotC would have found some excuse for making a new rarity to make some more cash regardless of planeswalkers or not. Just look at it, mythic is not exclusively planeswalkers.

Cutiefly is best fly.

That is not even close to what he said.

>What are you going to do with a bunch of black mana that late in the game,
>hard cast Emrakul or something?

It's called fun user. You should try it sometime.

>only walker that can kill itself the turn you play it with just it's[sic] minus ability.
Chandra Nalaar; Garruk, Primal Hunter; Sorin, Grim Nemesis; Tezzeret the Seeker; and Ugin the Spirit Dragon can all do so as well.
Honorable mention to Garruk Relentless and Sarkhan the Mad as well.

Neither is good. Where are the Tezz decks? Where are the Ajani Decks?

OH RIGHT, THEY SUCK AND NOBODY PLAYS THEM IN STANDARD OR MODERN

Don't talk shit on my man Garruk.

>But there are several playable planeswalkers and literally only 1 that got banned for being OP
And yet the ones that are playable are generally agreed to be cancer, which is natural because the design of Planeswalkers is extremely uninteractive.

>This has literally nothing to do with the card type, but strictly lore (who even gives a shit about the lore?)
Lots of people, before Planeswalker cards came about. It's been a long time but not everyone has forgotten the old ways.

>WotC would have found some excuse for making a new rarity to make some more cash regardless of planeswalkers or not. Just look at it, mythic is not exclusively planeswalkers.
While you're not wrong, Wizards is on the books saying that Mythic is meant to be reserved for unique or important storyline cards, and these days the storyline revolves 99% around Planeswalkers. We've had legendary creatures and big flashy sorceries since long before Mythic rolled around, but they came into existence almost right after Planeswalkers were introduced. It's hard not to see a pattern.

Garruk sucks dick lad. The most utterly bland possible interpretation of a Green character, so boring even in comparison to his nuwalker peers that he was quickly kicked off the "face of the franchise" list and had B stapled onto his mana cost to make him edgy and angsty.

He does have a pimpin hat and a strong initial card but that's all I can say in favor of him.

>Narrow Design Space
Loads of things have narrow design space, that doesn't necessarily make them bad design. As it stands though, Planeswalkers probably have about as much design space as global enchantments. Probably a little more.
>impossible to balance, either irrelevant or OP
This isn't true unless you're talking about eternal formats. Standard, modern, casual, commander, and limited, have all had planeswalker cards that were playable but not broken or overpowered. As an aside, the vast majority of cards are either OP or unplayable in constructed so I'm not sure why you're singling out planeswalkers.
>90% rehashes of the same characters nobody likes
I am sure loads of people like the jacetice league, otherwise WotC wouldn't market them so hard. Even if we assume that no tumblrinas like Chandra or Nissa or Gideon or Jace or Liliana (or Ajani why not) the jacetice league still only accounts for 37 of 86 planeswalker cards (meaning each member has ~6 cards) which is less than half.
>dilute the concept of the player being the Planeswalker
sure
>and exist as the main justification for the Mythic rarity tier
You're going to have to give me a citation on this one boss. Walkers predate mythic rarities and I'm sure if you did the math you'd find ~85% of mythics are not planeswalkers.
>Oh, and let's not forget [...] """Planeswalker Decks""" they're trying to foist on us
Okay? Because Intro decks were so much better? PW decks aren't aimed at you, they're aimed at new players who want to play a big shiny cool things. Intro packs did literally the same thing.

I think him being a hunter that wants to track down sad hunt the most dangerous and rare game is pretty cool. He doesn't pull any punches and his attitude reminds me of the dickish oldwalkers who weren't concerned with regular shades of morality. His cards are at least fun to play with in a timmy deck.

That's bullshit. Nissa and hippy elves are the most boring thing you can do with green.

Tap four swamps for Emmy-chan, Time Walk, Swing for fifteen and an Annihilator 6 trigger, tap four more swamps for another Emmy-chan, sac the first (or the second), Time Walk, Swing for fifteen and another Annihilator 6 trigger.

You know, fun

Dovin is way more shit than Nahiri

Drain Life?

>Protects himself
>Provides Card Advantage
>Ult could read I win
How is he so bad?

She's the other end of boring green. Garruk's UNGA BUNGA SAVAGE SURIVAL OF DA FITTEST, Nissa is UGUU ONE WITH NATURE FROLIC WITH THE FLOWERS

Like almost all nuwalkers, they embody the shallowest possible elements of their color identities.

>Loads of things have narrow design space, that doesn't necessarily make them bad design.
As a supertype, it absolutely does make them bad design. There's just not much that can be done with the planeswalker concept, and it shows.
>This isn't true unless you're talking about eternal formats.
I am, though I can't think of many Planeswalkers that did not fall into this category elsewhere.
> Even if we assume that no tumblrinas like Chandra or Nissa or Gideon or Jace or Liliana (or Ajani why not) the jacetice league still only accounts for 37 of 86 planeswalker cards (meaning each member has ~6 cards) which is less than half.
The Jacetice League aren't the only characters who get multiple cards. Back in the day, it was rare for a character to get more than one card representing them- if you didn't like a character you could be assured they'd be gone within a set or two and you could get something different in that color identity. If you want to play a BW Planeswalker card, hope you like Sorin Markov.

>You're going to have to give me a citation on this one boss. Walkers predate mythic rarities and I'm sure if you did the math you'd find ~85% of mythics are not planeswalkers.
Sure, have a read.
mtggoldfish.com/articles/the-changing-definition-of-mythic-rare
Obviously not all mythics are planeswalkers. They need other cards to pad out the rarity tier. With such a narrow design space they couldn't possibly fill it with planeswalkers alone.
>Okay? Because Intro decks were so much better?
So because something before was bad, a new even worse version is okay? Planeswalker decks are atrocious from a gameplay standpoint because they contain unique cards, which I shouldn't even have to point out why that's bullshit, and from a flavor standpoint because they further draw the focus away from "you are the planeswalker" and towards "you are playing as Chandra." They're a terrible idea on every level.

Yo.

>make a PoC planeswalker
>it is shit
what did WOTC mean by this?

>Doesn't see play in standard
>Won't see play outside standard

Not to mention that they fucked with the story so badly so that they could have planeswalker cards that weren't OP

>black/white PW
>is mulatto
>cant gain loyalty
ha, not even WOTC trusts halfbreeds

There is?

i think this one's pretty shit

Standard is anti-planeswalker besides Gideon and Cat Lady because of vehicles. Nahiri does not protect herself, give card advantage or have a valuable Ult. Dovin > Nahiri in a vacuum. If UW control was a thing in standard, Dovin would see play

Neither Standard or Modern currently are healthy formats and shouldn't be used as a metric for what is good or not.

They fucked up hard with Kaladesh block. So hard.

Yeah and that art is an abomination too.

>As a supertype
Planeswalkers are a card type not a super type. Super types are Legend, World, Basic, and Snow.
>There's not much they can do with the planeswalker concept
Saying it over and over again doesn't make it so. We've seen planeswalkers that discard cards, make creatures, become creatures, draw cards, bounce permanents, copy spells, take extra turns, tap shit, untap shit, exile permanents, flicker shit, tutor for shit, kill creatures, and a ton of other things too. How is that 'narrow design space'?

>I can't think of many PW that did not fall into this category elsewhere
Off the top of my head:
Xenagos, Elspeth Sun's Champ, Garruk Primal Hunter, Jace Beleren, Tezzeret the Seeker, Tezzeret Agent of Bolas, Koth, Ob Nixilis, Nissa Voice of Zendikar, Nissa Worldwaker, Chandra Pyromaster, Sorin Solemn Visitor and Lord of Innistrad, Gideon Jura, Ajani Vengeant, Karn Liberated, Ugin the Spirit Dragon, Domri Rade, and Jace AoT were all good in standard (a handful being useful in modern instead) without being broken or metagame shifting. The only 'OP' walkers were:
Liliana of the Veil
Garruk Wildspeaker
Gideon Avenger of Zendikar
Jace, The Mind Sculptor
Elspeth Knight Errant

And even that's stretching the definition of 'OP' but I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

>The Jacetice league aren't the only characters who get multiple cards.
Oh, so when you said '90% rehashes of the same characters nobody likes' you actually meant that nobody likes any planeswalker that has ever gotten more than one card? You're absolutely retarded if you think that Sorin, Garruk, or Elspeth don't have any fans. Multiple versions of the same character is also a balance thing.
>If you want to play a BW Planeswalker card, hope you like Sorin
Or Kaya you faggot.
Of course this is still a retarded argument since I could literally say the same thing about a sizeable number of legendary creatures in Magic.
"Like Esper colored elder dragons? Hope you like Chromium"

>Sure have a read
Have you read that article boss? It starts out by saying that walkers are just one of multiple criteria for mythics and then complains that too many mythics exist that aren't walkers, legends, or 'epic' cards. Hardly "the main justification for the Mythic rarity tier".
>Planeswalker decks contain unique cards, which I shouldn't even have to point out why that's bullshit.
I'm not following you here. Unique garbage cards aren't bullshit. Do you get mad at commander products for also having unique cards?
>So because something before was bad, a new even worse version is okay?
1) Intro decks weren't bad. They were fine ways of introducting new players to the game.
2) Planeswalker decks aren't worse than intro decks by any objective metric.
>they further draw focus away from "you are the planeswalker" and towards "you are playing as Chandra"
This has never been the case. Planeswalkers are allies that you call into battle to assist you. That's why the entire concept of loyalty exists. I've conceded that this mechanic makes planeswalkers seem weaker than they were in pre-mending days which somewhat detracts from the idea of the players as planeswalkers, but you'd have to be retarded if you thought that PW decks were supposed to make you think you are playing as the walker. If the PW dies do you lose the game?

Overall you seem to be using a lot of bizarre, arbitrary metrics to justify your dislike of planeswalkers. Some, like your claim regarding design space or PW being the primary justification for mythics are factually incorrect, while others (multiple cards representing the same character, balance issues) are technically subjective but most rational people wouldn't have a significant problem with, especially not to the point that they'd condemn the entire card type (again, NOT supertype) for these perceived flaws.

tl;dr, you're both wrong and a faggot.

Not relevant for judging these cards are good. They're bad in every format.

Also Modern is in a really good place. Healthy variety of decks with no one deck/shell dominating. Standard is unhealthy since the best cards can often be played in every deck(looking at you Copter) and removal is lighter than in standards past.

Most Chandra's, and while not the worst, Elf Hitler Nissa is pretty bad, even in an elf deck.

>This has literally nothing to do with the card type, but strictly lore (who even gives a shit about the lore?)
Do note that the character name has legendary-style properties. When you're using the same five names over and over, it does limit your use of Planeswalkers against similar decks to your own.

At least with Legendaries, you only have a problem if it's the same exact card.

>While you're not wrong, Wizards is on the books saying that Mythic is meant to be reserved for unique or important storyline cards, and these days the storyline revolves 99% around Planeswalkers.
The game's plot has ALWAYS revolved 99% around Planeswalkers. They just decided to make Planeswalkers far less rare and far less powerful in-setting to justify making it a card type.

Narrow Design Space is not even a bad thing if they were only a few cards, but all the other things and them printing more and more of them just makes it all futile

>give card advantage or have a valuable Ult
All of Nahiri's effects are more useful than Dovin's. Nahiri sees play in modern. No one looks at Dovin in any format. Dovin is trash.

I didn't realise Sasuke was a planeswalker

Nissa started out as elf Hitler who went to Lorwyn to learn their black elf magic to help her rule Zendikaar. And now she's some little bitch that gets triggered by someone putting their hand on her shoulder.

Debt to the Deathless if you're running Orzhov?

The player who played him mantains priority, so if they use his +1 he doesn't die to bolt

I do fairly well in standard with my tezz deck at fnm, but then again at my shop is filled with a bunch of people who only play for fun so we see lots of odd decks

>What's the worst Planeswalker card ever printed?
your favorite one

mill jace was a viable win-con against uw control in standard