Intellect checks

Try not playing D&D. I regularly play FATE and this is never an issue.

>I let my players use them as an 'out', but only sometimes. They spend a few minutes trying to solve the puzzle, nobody is having fun anymore, they aren't close to getting it, then go for it. Let's keep the game moving.

This. I don't like doing it, but it's the lesser evil.

you know how you do this better?
you realize that the players get way more time to think than the characters, and thus the more time the players have to think, the more intelligent the character is, because the character came up with a plan in X seconds while the average joe might take several minutes to think up the same idea

A check will get you information. Hell, generally I just give you the information. It's up to you as the player to correlate the relevant information and move forward.

You get to be lousy with clues, it's up to you to interpret the clues

>oh there's a door to break down?
>I'll just roll a strength check to see if I succeed

>not allowing people of below average intelligence role play scholarly wizards

>I'm sorry user, I need you to fill this differential calculus homework if you want to understand this.
>Oh you don't know differential calculus?
>Too bad, I guess you can't play a genius intelligence character

>Oh, there might be hidden traps?
>I'll just roll a Perception check to find them

>Oh, the enemy is armored?
>I'll just roll an attack roll to pierce through their defenses

The difference there is you already know the solution to that problem, you're just seeing if you suceed. As opposed to you rolling for the DM to tell you the sollutions to your problems.

>oh, there's a combat?
>let me just make a tactics roll and you tell me how I did.

Oh there is an RPG? Just roll my character level against the encounter level and tell me if I won so I can go back to playing cube

You should check GURPS Mysteries on how to run investigation campaigns.
GURPS Action 2: Exploits also have some advice on how to game puzzle-solving without it become boring.
Good luck!

>Try to escape by climbing over a wall.
>DM makes me go outside and I have to reach the roof or else my character dies
Man fuck this game.

If you're playing a system with an stats, you have to have a way to handle a situation where the player is far less able (in this case intelligent/clever) than the character they are using.

Hence stat checks.

NOW THAT'S STRATEGY!

reminder that in D&D the only thing Inteligence means is
>how good you are at certain kinds of magic
>how quickly you learn skills
>how much pre-existing knowledge you have about the world (and that's probably more affected by class)
any other aspect of your character's personality or skillset is not influenced by their Intelligence

In 5e it doesn't even affect skills

Maaaaan, fuck that.

>climb on to his roof by any means necessary
>claim that goddamn roof
>shout (racial?) obscenities at him until the cops show up
>piss in the arresting officer's face
>shout different obscenities
>loudly question the sexuality of the blueshirt who inevitably tasers you

Like a goddamned man. You guys are such pussies, I swear.

instead of auto passing the whole puzzle, it just gives them a pertinent hint

the higher the roll, the better the hint

also, if your playets get stuck scratching their heads then you made a mistake, having them be stuck doing nothing is bad

Yeah I guess ability scores are just for attack rolls and spell slots user thanks for enlightening us to the fact that character creation should just be picking a class and favorite mode of attack.

Agreed.

Although this is how the rules could be used in a 5E session/campaign, IF it happens this way, it is the absolute fault of the DM of that game. I mean the FIRST thing that needs to be asked is...WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR...WHY DO YOU THINK THERE MAY BE SOMETHING...WHAT LEAD YOU TO THAT...these questions HAVE to be asked in conjunction with rolls...if rolls would even NEED to be used at that point depending on the answers. The game will really only ever be as strong as the party that is part of constructing it with their characters...

Exactly. I think people forget that fact.

Or 1E, or 2E. Skill points weren't a thing.

tfw his intelligence starts with a 1

>you already know the solution to that problem
Indeed, and I have some interior decorating that needs to be done. Problem and solution found.

I usually disallow such checks. Sometimes I might let an Intelligence check provide a hint, but puzzles actually need to be solved.
I do allow applicable knowledge checks to be used. Intelligence doesn't mean shit if you don't specifically know about something.

eh

i guess you could play a system without an "intelligence" stat or the equivalent but i don't know if those exist

>Intellect
And that is how OP outed himself as someone I'd ban from my table.

>int becomes dump stat because I can just use my intelligence rather than my character's for solving puzzles

First post best post.

What are some games that do not have mental attributes?

This is why I do not like mental attributes.

Let's be honest, you're going to get these rolls because you do not have 180 IQ, or the charisma of a Napoleon.

A proper way to avoid it is to not have puzzles altogether - 9 times out of 10 they are boring exercises in futility or GM's showing off how, supposedly, smart his game is, usually with puzzles taken from the internet.

I can't stress enough how important it is for games to be fluid - and puzzles drop a fucking roadblock into it.

Fine with me. You shouldn't have to burn points to actually play your character.

>Player tries to move a boulder
>Starts rolling dice for some reason instead of doing manual labor in my backyard
Sometimes I don't know why i even DM for these people.

First post best post

You could apply this to most threads on this board, tee bee aich eff ayy em

Int governs spellcasting, knowledge-based checks, and general skillmonkey ability.
Making it govern anything else by rule is retarded. If a character wants to roleplay it that way, excellent.
Would you rule that a character who dumped Cha is incapable of communicating? No, because it's fucking stupid.

Sometimes you need intelligence checks if a character you're playing is way beyond your skillset but would know something in-character that you wouldn't. For example at one point in a more modern setting I played a nuclear physicist without knowing a single thing about the actual field of study because I thought it wouldn't come up. GM had me do int checks for anything that would offhandedly come to mind from my profession as we played that wasn't just basic common knowledge. It worked ok, GM knew I had common sense, just not the actual knowledge RL from that field to know every subtle hint he gave out on how to proceed.

I'd say this is acceptable. No player can be expected to know even RL things about technical fields, so long as it exists and is accepted in-universe.

I feel like falling or not falling for a troll thread would be more of a wisdom check. That is, assuming we're talking D&D stats here. I suppose another system could have intelligence as the generic "all things thinking" stat.

This is not a troll thread, it's a valid exploration of rpg theory

>in D&D

Intelligence is not always going to help you find clues. Sometimes it may be a hindrance.

Intelligence is not always going to help you solve a mystery. Sometimes it may be a hindrance.

Intelligence wont always help you figure out a plot. Sometimes it might be a hindrance.

I'm kicking you out of the game for being a baby. I'm not gonna play for you.

the general point still stands: the only things a stat means are the mechanical effects it's designed to have, it has no other impact on how the character is played, this applies to any stat/skill/whatever in any game

To be fair anything higher than normal difficulty makes thinking tactically much more important.

No I do, I just have learned that the only way to get people to actually reply is to make a b8 post then post a more reasonable version of your opinion further down in the thread.

Kill yourselves, you're wrong.

So you are trying to say it IS okay to make intellect checks to decide what your character is going to do?

How do YOU handle a character at the table who is smarter than the player, or maybe even smarter than the DM?

>I mean the FIRST thing that needs to be asked is...WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR...WHY DO YOU THINK THERE MAY BE SOMETHING...WHAT LEAD YOU TO THAT...these questions HAVE to be asked in conjunction with rolls.

But he doesn't doesn't need to know that: his character would figure it out. His character has an 18 Int whereas he only has a 10 to 12 IRL.

I've seen actual players get butthurt over this. "Where are you looking for clues?" "Well I dunno, my character knows, he's the detective not me"

Checks require something to be acted upon. It doesn't work for concepts. You use an INT check to determine if an object was the murder weapon. You can roll a history check to see if you recognize where the weapon came from. You don't roll for abstract concepts like who the murderer is, you roll for who could have wielded or owned the murder weapon.

you fucking suck at GMing, kys

man this is a fucking great gif

Why don't you also just roll your game skill to find out if the game was fun, rather than bothering to shot up?

Shards of Creation only has Strength, Agility, Vitality, Talent, and Essence.

I only use intelligence for things the player can't do themselves, like disarming a trap or whatever

Stop being salty over being stupid.