Let's talk about the Nine Hells

What.

Tiefling. She wants to be good but does whatever her great grandmother orders.

Who's her patron?

Does she end up being LN?

Mephistopheles, which tries to correct to 'Methodists'.
NE (she's a little unsettled too) but it's 5e, so > alignments

Gotcha. Who's her great grandmother? Some erinyes or pleasure devil? A paeliryon?

Erinyes. Caseworker, under a glyou, under Asmodeus' little girl, under big M.
Remind me what the paleo- whatsits are?

Disgusting spymasters. Combat-wise, they're casters. Fucking AT WILL meteor swarm

In your games, are erinyes the battle-hardened warriors in the 5e campaigns, or more seductive like the 3.5 and earlier ones?

Mainly the former, fallen martial angels, etc, but also the latter as a result of (or resulting in) them being in mortal relations and management. They're one of the less off putting devil types, after all.

Gotcha. And, of course, it's always possible for them to be both, like in pic related.

Yeah, for some reason Ahriman literally cannot stop fucking BLEEDING after he hit the 8th layer of Hell and made the 9th, so it even happens through his proxy. Also, this is why Glasya has those wings. And, notably, why Asmodeus looks like someone swapped a human face onto what would be a more draconic one. Infact, with a bit of photoshop you could probably see it in this choice picture here.

Also, if Ahriman ever did recover, he'd win because he's a pre-deity entity with no stats, unlike his sister whom accidentally didn't realize becoming divine would actually NERF her when she settled in that bizzare area of the upper planes where you have to climb a mountain, and do a boundless leap of faith to enter her area. Where she lays around, does nothing, gets adored over by her children and eats Hydra Chicken tendies all day long or something.

What the hell?
This is why I have my own setting cosmology.

Don't worry, post 4e there's no hint of it being Canon, instead, Asmodeus still does the Fedora-eater thing and ended up beign a corrupted nutjob whyo went knee deep in the abyss, got shitted on for it, went manic-depressive guarding Thrazriduins prisons, and finally made the turn thanks to Pazuzu talking shit in his war with his gay Falco voice.

I mean look at this guy, he's furbait, you can tell.

Don't you love your mother, user?

I think that IS a fan made setting.

It's not. It's from one of the official books as one of many possibilities for Asmodeus's origins.

Not exactly on topic, but where can I find out more about draedens? They seem really fuckin cool but aren't talked about much

>paeliryon

God those things are awful.

>ave you ever had your players visit? How did it go? Who are the archdukes in your setting?
No, it didn't, there aren't any
>What's the status of the ancient baatorians? Are they totally gone, or do they still lurk on the most remote corners of Cania and Stygia? Has an archduke ever been slain by mortals (maybe your players?)
Never existed, no one hasn't.
>What is the relationship between the Nine Hells and the Upper Planes? Do they grudgingly support Asmodeus and his archdukes because of the Blood War, or do they consider all evil equally worthy of fighting?

They do nothing all day everyday

Which setting is this?

2e-3.5

I'm thinking of making the Hells a city that protects the world from the Abyss.

Maybe Devils are antithetical of man-made concepts, whereas Demons are antithetical to natural concepts?

Or I just use fiends in general, and actually commit the heresy of using devils and demons together.

Yes, everyone's been to Baator, and the whole party loves it and its denizens. They have several contacts over there, including the Archduke of the 1st and 2nd layer, Bel (I'll get there), who on terms "as friendly as possible" with them after they helped in a huge ritual that allowed a powerful Avatar of him to be summoned to the material plane.

There are reasons for this - its because the party is basically cursed with having to kill demons and venture into the abyss to face demon lords or plot bad things will happen. Therefore, they managed to struck a careful deal with the devils after a lot of political maneuvering, and of course they ended up on disadvantage, but they were acceptable terms. The lesser evil, if anything.

Now, to go into more detail about the current situation of Baator in the setting, there are currently 10 layers of hell instead of 9, ever since Asmodeus was dethroned, the fight having ripped open a new layer where the current ruler, Eligos, resides. Bel took a great part in helping the Eligos defeat Asmodeus, and he was given Dispater's former domain after he too fell in the uprising.
As for the events leading to Asmodeus downfall, those are as complicated as the abyss, but suffice to say that it involved (but was not limited to): Vecna doing stuff, Asmodeus' mortal cult being wiped out, Levistus getting freed from the curse, Zargon the Returner returning, ancient baatorans, the Ruby rod being destroyed, the primeval pact being torn asunder, angry devils, angry angels, angry inevitables, and a lot of good old backstabbing.
Other Archdukes that are no more and were replaced in the uprising include: Glasya, Mephistoteles, Belial & Fierna.

After the major power shift in hell, things are more or less stable, and the upper planes would say the changes were for the better, even if not ideal. That concept of balance is also enforced by the god of neutrality, who got pretty strong in the meanwhile.

>Glasya dead
Aww, there goes the professional paladin seducer
>ancient baatorans
Fuck yes, I love those things. If I ever do a planar campaign I'm totally using them.

Hear me out: what if the Nine Hells were originally part of the Abyss and the ancient baatorians are obyriths.

Well, Planescape suggested that the ancient baatorians and obyriths were the "cast-off" from expunging yugoloths of law and chaos.

Also--what the fuck does a primal force of law and evil look like? The obyriths were far less human than the tanar'ri, but I'm struggling to imagine a being of primal law.

>Also--what the fuck does a primal force of law and evil look like? The obyriths were far less human than the tanar'ri, but I'm struggling to imagine a being of primal law.

Well that's kind of how I got the my idea. Primal beings and forces are inherently chaotic, so there cannot be such thing as a being of primal law. Hence, the idea that the obyriths and ancient baatorians are the same thing.

After a bit of thought, I think I've got an idea.

The ancient baatorians are beings of absolute law, but not human law--nor divine law. They act in accord with laws beyond the understand of even gods, much like the modrons. And their goal is very different than the baazetu's, who wish to enslave all creatures

As living (and unliving) beings are inherently unpredictable, they act to remove randomness from the multiverse by exterminating all life forms other than themselves. Only when the multiverse is devoid of other life will they see all be as it must. Eventually, even the stars shall die, and the Material Plane shall be nothing but a vast expanse of low-density gas a fraction of a degree above absolute zero.

And finally order shall prevail.

I find that illustrations of avatars of order and personifications of law tend to be angular and crystalline.

Agreed there. Apparently the "lords" of the ancient baatorians shed their bodies entirely and became beings of pure thought.

If my players ever go on a quest to find them, it won't be like fighting a monster. It'll be more like fighting a sentient hurricane. They're beings of absolute Law, and can rewrite the laws at their will. I'm thinking about physical laws specifically--maybe the Lord decides that gravity should be a bit stronger, or make all particles bosons within its domain.

Yugoloths are pretty dumb and really only exist as something to fit into the Neutral Evil spot.

In NWN1 HotU, the original Baatorians had some serious powers before the Devils kicked them out.

Mephistopheles apparently made a waifu of one who was the Knower of Names or something- as in, True Names, that define and command and create a person.

She knows the True Name of all living things. Their fates, their destinies, their true loves (as entailed in their name).

For some reason she had the colossal misfortune to have Mephistopheles as her true love even though she knew he'd wind up using her for her abilities then betraying her and sealing her away in the furthest reaches of the Caina. But so it goes.

..and the BEST PART is that at the end of the campaign when you get to her, you can ask her for your True Love. And she chooses from a RANDOM LIST, even if you've completed the companion romance subplot. It's the most hilariously cruel thing ever.

>Fierna tries to disguise her _besotted_ admiration for Glasya, but once she has started talking about her friend, she can’t seem to stop.
>Up until now, the situation [of her father being the power behind the throne] suited Fierna just fine. But thanks to her _flowering relationship_ with Glasya, she has become more interested in taking Phlegethos in more than just name.

So Glasya and Fierna are totally having hardcore lesbian sex, right?

They're demons. Hardcore is probably absolute zero, and they probably have all sorts of bondage, sex-swings, branding irons, and pony play.

Probably

You've sold me user, what's the full rundown?

Just about all the archdevils are """""""""""""""""""""""""""friends""""""""""""""""""""""""""" with benefits.

>Hardcore is probably absolute zero
I'd believe it. Sex in a time stop maybe.

You can actually meet an ancient baatorian in a Planescape adventure.

It is literally a "if it notices you you are dead, period" sort of thing. And a nupperibo in another adventure is just beginning to ascend into an ancient baatorian before the PCs arrive to stop it or Bad Things Happen.

Whatever they were, they are not the sort of hing you would dare tangle with. Ever. There's a reason Asmodeus walks so carefully around Baalphegor, and it has absolutely nothing to do with her husband.

Also, reminder that despite being the Lord of the Nine Hells, Asmodeus genuinely loved his wife.

Only the first layer for a Blood War sidequest.
They found a portal with this written:
« Per me si va ne la città dolente,
per me si va ne l'etterno dolore,
per me si va tra la perduta gente.
Giustizia mosse il mio alto fattore:
fecemi la divina potestate,
la somma sapienza e 'l primo amore;
dinanzi a me non fuor cose create
se non etterne, e io etterno duro.
Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch' intrate. »

After that period, their relations with Baator were strained. They were supposed to come back to help a coup against a fake Asmodeus.

No, they're fiends with benefits

Who was his wife?

Carlos, I would give your soul to hell for free.

Yeah, I know about that ancient baatorian, and the nupperibo. One other book talked about some worm made of darkness. The Inner Planes, I believe, suggests that frozen baatorians appear on the Paraelemental Plane of Ice sometimes.

>Baalphegor
She's the one mentioned, right?

>Also, reminder that despite being the Lord of the Nine Hells, Asmodeus genuinely loved his wife.
Of course. Love might be involved in a lot of redemptions, but it's also a common reason for falls to evil.

Bravo.

>Zargon the Returner returning
Made me chuckle.

You knocked out all my favorite lords aside from Bel, but that's okay, I'm sure your group had fun.

Make an imp sometimes visit the warlock in the dead of night. Don't do anything bad, just have it ask about warlocks day and if he has anything to report. The imp is just an accountant that has to keep its superiors informed. It has invisibility as an sla and flight so keeping the party from killing it should be easy. Just have the imp say that is superior wants the quasi bi weekly report on how it's patron powers are being spent so as to estimate the amount of revenue applicable to the devil Lord in question and etc. Hint that there might be repercussions down the line if quota is not met.

I require proof or I'm calling shenanigans. Pls man. The setting -cannot- be that bad.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazirian#The_Serpents_of_Law
2e's Guide to Hell

I'm basically adding all the fiends and such

Oh, one of many, that makes more sense, I still don't remember it, it's apparently an old 2E or earlier thing.

Baalphegor is the wife of Mephistopheles. She does not appear in NWN, and there is no reference to her being any sort of True Name aficionado.

She's an ancient baatorian masquerading as a baatezu for her own reasons. And she's the reason Meph can be so blatant that he's gunning to overthrow Asmodeus without fear of retribution. And the reason why when he did launch a failed rebellion, Mephistopheles wasn't even punished. Because of her.

She is also currently whereabouts unknown. Which makes Asmodeus very, very nervous. Not that he would ever admit it.

She's in contact with her caseworker. I'm just looking for errands and quests and favors to demand of her.

Where can I read more about her?

Also I really like how Meph's got the whole (super) fire AND ice theme. My favorite's still Dispater, I've been hybridizing him with other stuff like Dr. Doom for my own setting where he's one of the more prominent fiends.

Different user. I like Meph a lot, but I think Bel might be my favorite. While all the others are being keikaku masters and trying to out-gambit each other, he's keeping devilkind (and incidentally, the multiverse) safe from demons. Easily the best archdevil for a band of heroes to work with.

Bel is cool, I''m sooorta folding him in with my Dispater because there's just something I like about how they're both big on fortress building and such.

Also mellowing out the evil slightly, and blurring the various planes so you have stuff like Bamphonet's maze intruding on the sewers and back alleys of Dis.

>mellowing out the evil slightly
I made Bel out to be more Lawful than Evil, definitely.

Asmodeus is basically 70's tempter Satan. Orcus is the black goat sacrifice kind of Satan. I don't really see the point of a less effective Asmodeus in Dispater and Mephistopheles really.

Dispater has a cool as fuck name, and all he has going for him is his city, which is equally as cool. Still, I can easily use the City of Dis without the need for Dispater.

Mephistopheles also has a cool name too, but ultimately is just a rival to Asmodeus and that's really it in the context of a campaign world.

>Dispater has a cool as fuck name, and all he has going for him is his city, which is equally as cool. Still, I can easily use the City of Dis without the need for Dispater.

Eh, Dispater's got the paranoia angle, fortress building acolytes, and his connection to iron and steel. My version plays him up as a patron of "Su[erior Blood" worshiped by cold nobles (QUITE frequently Vampires) and those who believe they SHOULD be nobles both. His lesser fiends (Something between Steel Devils, and Iron Golems/Ultimate Dr. Doom) are considered the ideal Coffin guards by vamps in Sylvachia (Yes I just hybridized the two halves of Romania into a single word, sue me.)

That still doesn't tell me what setting. Eberron? Spell Jammer? Ghost Walk? Faerun? Forgotton Realms?

Actually, the Assman is Wolfram and Heart tier Satan, wanting to take over the Lower planes, heal his wounds with secretly secured Atheist souls, Orcus is basically the Undead Rockefeller/Donald Trump success story/way the jews worship Moloch I don't hate Trump but Orcus's history is basically pretty Trumpy in terms of success, and he's credited as the Creator of the undead by Gygax to the point where this d20 fact was acknowledged in official material And Mephistopheles is literally a massive manchild going by his description on how he shittalks Asmodeus in the Open, despite accidentally letting his true name go public, risking all his shit on his Hellfire project, and generally going from cool to manchild in 3 seconds flat most of the time (I mean he is on what would be in Dante's Inferno, the layer of hell for traitors I think) Mephy is more of a parody of the actual Mephy who is more involved in mortal affairs in terms of Literally pops out of hell to Mortalaaboo and stuff with time control.

I love the Hellfire project, and I will admit that in any evil game I would make a Meph cultists to get some Hellfire/Greater Hellfire spell like abilities on martials.

...I also once and I like to hope even young me was sarcastic, made a "Fallen Paladin" who brought an Angel down with him to a masochist Erinyes to give myself a free Angelwing razor. (3.0BOVD's "Ignore all DR and hardness." sword)

See this makes me think that Dispater is suited better as this sort of naturally weaker Archdevil than the others, like he's lame in the physical sense, or has that clubfoot going on. This weakness lends to his paranoia. Except he decks himself out in a suit of blaphemous armor and has engines of war ready to go at a moments notice. Like a Dr Doom/Sauron looking fucker.

Even Epic DR?

>Assman is Wolfram and Heart tier Satan

Look at this 70s looking fucker. He probably has a fucking hairy chest with a gold chain too. He's definitely as ass-man as well.

T H I C C

Moreso just Muscular.

Anyone got good images for Dis? I've got some screenshots of the final castle from the Vampire Hunter D movie that I will try to dig out of my zillions of screenshots but can't find much more.

imgur.com/a/KNCy6 Ah there they are.

...

Thanks, though that's a little flat for my tastes/

Great Wheel, so all of them. Greater scope. Planescape and spelljammer and all that 2e jazz.

it's a fucking hell plane what do you want puppies and rainbows

Visited. Almost asked Glasya to bone. Thought better of it, as the primal powers were already throwing a shitfit that the gods had empowered me as their punisher.

Got our buddy out of his contract with Mephistopheles, by highlighting certain statements which, when elaborated on made it impossible for a mortal to complete.

We defeated an archduke of hell on a technicality, and it was a rich success indeed.

Not quite related, but I ended up taking a shortcut through the Eternal Labyrinth, or Baphomets realm, and taking it over after a grueling bout of combat.

Was playing a minotaur barbarian y'see. I accidentally the lord of all minotaurs.

>not seducing Glasya
>not convincing her that the ultimate act of rebellion would be switching to Chaotic Good

heh heh. had I played the bard, for sure. Sadly, that option was taken by the gentleman I refer to as "Tofu Bard"

Needless to say he wasn't convincing anyone of anything.

Another thing about ancient baatorians. They consume light and breath out darkness, and certain cases amongst their kind consume life instead. So trying to not engage them in combat likely won't work too well.

Yeah, they're really nasty. Makes you wonder how the devils beat them in the first place...

If I recall, MOST of the Baatorians already fucked off SOMEWHERE, And the Assman came along an pimpcaned Zargon, who is a rather underwhelming sort.

The new ones are like what, a parasitized Ovatorium used in devil repoduction/hierachy now?

No way Zargon is their ruler. He's a wimp. I imagine he was their figurehead/big scary distraction while the lords evolved beyond matter.

MSPaint Ravnica art black and red?

Who the heck is/was Zargon? And why were all nine planes of Baator inhabited by such badasses?

bump

Asmodeus's predecessor. Detailed in depth in Elder Evils, but he's older than that

My campaign involves a certain ex-archduke who lost his position in the Nine Hells, and now his plan is to get summoned onto the prime material and turn it into a Tenth Hell he can rule over.

My character's a tiefling, cursed into being one despite her two human parents because said parents were one of the adventurers that turned him into an ex-archduke.

From what I can tell? They didn't. A good deal of the Baatorians screwed off to other realms, and Asmodeus came around and installed himself as ruler of the Hells. Now when Baatorians appear it's only the youngest amongst their ilk, or the ones who stuck around for unfathomable, alien reasons. The lords and everything else of note just kinda left the multiverse for some reason.

So it's essentially
>tfw to intelligent two stay in the multiverse

>Asmodeus's predecessor.
Allegedly.

>supposedly "unkillable"
>supposedly a challenge to Asmodeus himself
>not perfectly killable, just exiled to the Material Plane
>where he will run free among mortals and cause trouble
>spread rumours that maybe Asmodeus isn't supreme
>perhaps even encourage his enemies to reveal themselves in open rebellion

I mean, come the fuck on. Mephistopheles fell for this shit already, and Asmodeus utterly flattened the rebellion once it got started, almost flawlessly (he just lost Benesozia).

That's the thing.

The baatezu DIDN'T beat them. If they had, then the nature of Baator would have changed so that petitioners become lemures, while instead the process of transformation is done manually and the natural evolution of petitioners to Baator is nupperibos, the larval form of the ancient baatorians.

Asmodeus fell (from somewhere, anyway), his fall created Nessus and the Serpent's Coil, but in the war against the ancient baatorians, he did not win.

That's why the baatezu piss themselves in fear at the thought of entering some of the places in Baator where the ancient baatorians may yet remain. And why Asmodeus walks so very carefully around Baalphegor.

Exactly where they all went is unclear, the early history of the Nine Hells is sketchy for a reason. Some are still around. Some are perhaps in the ice beneath Cania, or in the Paralemental Plane of Ice. Others are in Maladomini, deep within its depths. Others are elsewhere. But they're still around, and that is perhaps the one big thing that legitimately worries Asmodeus.

He lost her before the harrowing and somehow that's legitimately sad. (If he'd lost her in the Harrowing I don't think even Baalphegor would stop him from laying out punishment.)

>described as reserved, coldly beautiful, polite, proper, loyal, terrifying to her enemies
I'd be sad too if the perfect Lawful Evil waifu had her soul obliterated.

>mfw this thread

Who knows, maybe Levistus imprisoned it somehow. Be extra ironic if he imprisoned her attached to him, so by locking him in ice Assman is impeding her return.

Assuming somehow Assman figures it out, and in the process of releasing her, Levi escapes, where does he flee to?

All I can tell is that they ended up subverted into the highly exploitable Devil reproductive system Ovatorium, which has amazingly, not been abused in artificial insemination or grafting projects yet by intuitive mad wizards who notice this as a flaw.

Graz'zt's plane, Levistus knows how to party, and so does Mr extra digits, and he's a very entertainable hospitable blood war aside, they'd -probably- get along.

Also, for some reason Graz'zt hates Malcanthet, but it's mentioned they have awesome sweaty sex contest combat when their aspects meet in the same vicinity, which is hilarious because the Queen of succubi's husband is also the Demon Lord of Cuckolds incest and sexual taboos. She also fucks Demogogron as his replacement bitch for the one dropped in that well who know's Monkey-Troubles True name or some other weakness he has I once found a picture of it, was amusing.

Also, succubi aren't the happy sex-fun times Demons you wish they were, they're the get you into a compromising position secretly psycho-bitch tear-off your cock because fuck you- kind of semen Demon, you'd count yourself lucky to actually fuck one, (And survive because level drain) let alone one who's good in the bedroom (What's considered good bedwork by the Sword and Sorcery age kind of sex is probably entry level as fuck for an user) Because their primary experience factor is usually the Hedonistic/Sadist part of lust and excess. There's sort of a divide between the ones who you know you can dick, and the ones who are just blatantly that one girl you've always wanted to strangle who you know is leading you on/out to stab you in the back because there's something TOO generic about them.