That Guy General

>ranger leaves to get the authorities
>barb wakes up, hears what happened by the bard and they both sit down for breakfast, waiting for the rogue to come out of his room
>rogue finally comes downstairs and the barb confronts him, accusing him of being a thief
>rogue starts lying out his ass, saying he was just coming downstairs, about to say he found the pouch of gems in the hallway
>barbarian starts shitting on him for not only being a thief, but being dumber than a bag of rocks
>rogue: "I slap him"
>barbarian enrages and grapples him again
>rogue fails to break free
>barbarian bashes him in the bar almost knocking him unconcious
>just as this happens the ranger with several guards walk in
>rogue is apprehended and taken to the sheriff's office and the rest of the party decides to leave for the next quest because by this point everyone on the table was pretty tired of his shit

And here is where I made my worst mistake:
>sheriff is absolutely livid with the rogue
>however
>I decided not to hang him on the spot and tell him to eat my shit
>sheriff took all his gear and money, left him only with some clothes and 10 pieces of silver in his pockets and kicked him out of the village
>told him that if he were to come back he'd have him executed, no questions asked
>at this point I was hoping he'd try to gain to the party and stop being a stupid cunt
>as soon as he gets kicked out he says he's waiting for nightfall, so he can sneak in the city and find the sheriff's house
and this is where we ended the last session because we were all about to murder this guy

This week I’ll probably get to kill his cancer character. I hear he plans on playing a warlock now, so I will harrass the shit out of him via his patron.

don't try to hide it from them
if you don't want them in then politely say you want it separate
most people who aren't literally autistic will understand

if you need an excuse use "variety"

To be honest, variety IS part of the reason I want to recruit from a larger pool instead of just giving them seats. But thanks, you're probably right. They're not asshats, so I should just tell them about it and let whatever happens, happen.

Aye. If any express /serious/ interest in wanting to join, you can then consider opening up a recruitment slot.

It's also not a committed relationship; again, if they aren't autistic, they should not freak out upon seeing that you've opened up another game. Players are people, and it's not at all abnormal for someone to want more than one game.

Just had my first time dming, party has just reached level 5 and the dm wanted to take a break so I volunteered. Everything went about as well as could be expected except for having to end it early due to a player arriving late.

The big gripe I had was one player that decided they wanted to use this session to settle down and start turning a tavern in the woods from the last session into their own pub/cottage.
I made a caravan outside get attacked by drow and while the rest of the players were fighting them, she insisted on "talking with contractors and fixing up the place".
Once the fight was over she still refused to leave the tavern and even rolled (and failed) a perception check to hear people calling for her from outside. I had the caravan owner offer gold to escort him through the woods and a further reward that would be fantastic for her character but eventually her bf had to give her a look to tell her to hop on the caravan with the rest of the party.

Guess what I'm asking here is what am I supposed to do when one of the players wants to turn D&D into medieval tavern simulator?

Sounds like she wants to have fun and you guys just want a murderhobo campaign.

this guy gets it

What can I do to improve as a player?

I make the cost to get it off the ground hoer than the amount the characters have.

There are also side quests to obtain recipes for the best ales and foods known to mortals. Along with the need to get supplies for said foods delivered from across the planes.

I also threw in the idea that they could go around and recruit adventurers to make the place into a sort of adventures guild.

Higher* sorry I'm phone posting at work

>it's a "rogue attacks the barbarian" episode
this happens all the time with me, except this one rogue continued to prattle on about the shadow dimension or something

>im playing barbarian, really fucking strong but pretty much really weak in charisma, intelligence, wisdom, etc
>i have no need for all of that shit anyway
>rogue has some god tier stat rolls, he has like 18 in dex and int because we're using a 4d6 drop lowest system
>rogue and me butt heads immediately because he calls me a dumbass when we meet for the first time
>we have a monk character too, he buddied up with me since we met in the market
>go to the inn to rent a room then leave back to the market with the monk to buy some equipment
>rogue was sitting in the corner of the inn, in classic fashion
>rogue decides to follow us out there, figure he's gonna buy some gear
>rogue decides to insult some person while walking around the market
>the person turns out to be a gigantic ham beast of a woman
>she attacks him and hits him for almost all of his health
>me and the monk rush over to help in what little way we can against this monstrosity the DM decided to unleash
>i try to talk her down, but due to my shitty charisma she thinks im insulting her or something
>me and monk battle it out, monk ends up going to 0 health and i end up stealing some of the rogues gold off his near unconscious body to get a few potions because he was the one who caused this
>rogue gets mad, but doesn't do anything
>take the monk back to the inn, guards come in demanding to know who took out big bertha out in the market
>rogue immediately points fingers at me and the monk
>monk admits it was us, he's pretty much my mouth at this point when we're dealing with non party members
>guards take us to the barracks give us a stern talking to after we explain the rogue actually initiated it
>guards tell us to stay out of trouble or they'll fuck us up
>go back to the inn to rest

>meanwhile, the wizard was out and about receiving some information on a cult problem that needed solving
>thank god someone was getting something done because the rogue was sulking in the inn again
>wizard returns to the inn as we do, she asks us if we're able warriors who can help root out a cult
>we agree, pretty much give her party leader role because she's the least fucked up out of us and she'll probably keep us going straight
>she recruits the rogue too
>rogue immediately tries to charm her a little, telling her she's beautiful
>she thanks him but otherwise ignores him
>this was the beginning of something really stupid
>we go and deal with this cult which is just outside of the town in the woods
>rogue scouts ahead for traps
>is sure to tell the wizard everything but makes a point to make sure my barb doesnt get any information
>kind of a moot point because the monk and wizard both tell me anyway
>we deal with the cult and we find some magic stuff, both to sell and for the wizard to use
>rogue tries to steal 90% of this shit, but tips his hood to the wizard and gives her some shit
>literally runs off with a load of shit in his bag
>i dont care because i have my greataxe and some armor
>monk pretty miffed because he wants to buy gear for when we inevitably travel further out from civilization
>wizard agrees and we go back to town
>the rogue holes up in his room with all the knickknacks and we decide to just turn in for the night
>figure we're gonna stop there for the time being
>rogue wants to get into the wizards room
>what
>DM begrudgingly allows it
>he actually manages to get a 0 on his first lockpick attempt and the DM says he makes some ruckus
>wizard opens the door and she asks what the hell he's doing
>he says he wants to protect her from me
>she shuts the door on him
>he waits for her to fall asleep and he tries it again
>he breaks into her fucking room
>why
>wizard wakes up and she freaks out and rushes to my room and i give her my bed

>dick move for me to not just invite those people, or at least my DM, into the game?
A friend tried to do this. He scooped my players, didn't tell me, lied to them, and when I called one of them to see what was going on, was told that the player had tried to call me and couldn't get ahold of me, and that he'd told me that he was going to do this, a story I poked all full of holes in a few seconds.

It's part of why I don't play with him anymore. Part, but not all of.

My point being, if you try to scoop players out from under a DM, they will find out. And they'll resent you for it.

>i sleep on the in the hall on the door to my room to make sure we can end the session because the rogue can no longer do anything
>rogue gets mad and fucking attacks me
>he lands a hit but i have enough health to tank through like 4 more of his hits
>i go to grapple him
>i succeed and he starts yelling about going to the shadow dimension to escape me or something
>guess its a racial thing or something
>he rolls to escape and fails
>i bash his head against the monks door and the monk comes out
>we restrain him with the excess cultist shit the rogue fucking ran off with earlier
>throw him in the downstairs, the innkeep asks what the hell is going on
>tell him he's trying to attack our party member, say he's a shitter
>innkeep gets a local guard and the guard hauls him off to prison
>rogue pissed off
i dont know what he thought was gonna happen when he attacked me with unarmed
what a shitshow

I don't mean to STEAL players from my DM. I was just concerned that not offering the co-players and DM a seat in the next game I plan to run would be rude to them. I'm certain I could find enough players on my own, so that's not a problem. I'm just not sure how to tell the people I already play with that they aren't promised seats in my upcoming game without it coming across as "Yeah I don't really want you guys in this other game I'm going to run", as if I dislike playing with them (and for the record, I don't dislike playing with them).

murderhobo =/= any adventure whatsoever
she is not the fucking protagonist, it is not her decision to make to permanently settle down in the woods and start a tavern when everyone else wants to go adventuring
if she insists she should leave because clearly she can't handle a multiplayer game

Here's how you do it:

>"Hey, guys, I kinda want to run a game, but I'd like a bit of variety from our current group, right? If I can't find enough players, would any of you guys be up for that?"

If they're mature adults, they'll understand. If not, they'll have a bitch-fit, but they'll be okay after a while.

Chill boy. He's not talking about stealing players, he just wants to play with a different group.

That's a perfect reason to have that character leave the party.

>Alright, your character has settled down, and officially left the party. I'll need you to roll up a new character.

Just like when you have that 'rogue in the shadows' type character who doesn't actually want to join the party at all.
>Alright, your character leaves the party that they never even joined in the first place. Roll up a new character- this time, try one who wants to hang out with the rest of the party.

Best answer. Sometimes you just have to realize a character isn't going to fit with the group, and you should stop forcing it.

>>have to pick the locks or break down doors in nearly every area
>>come to a door and hear talking on the other side
>>try to come up with a plan of opening it without making noise to take them by surprise
>>LOL THE DOOR WAS OPEN THE WHOLE TIME
>>HAHA HAHA ARENT I A GOOD GM
Fuck off. If the door to the kitchens was locked why the fuck would a door to their headquarters be open?

>>sometimes fudge dice to keep players going
>>or save them from an ignominious death
>>player who is relatively new keeps getting mad that I'm interfering with his story
>>not the groups, 'his'
>>calls me That GM

>playing some friendly casual games with friends
>one of my good mates brings one of his friends over
>"yeah he's pretty new but he's eager to play"
>noworries.dataslate
>new guy has a big army of blob IG
>first turn passes without incident, we're both out of range
>second turn, I get in range with some Boyz
>miss most shots, only get one wound
>BS2.waaagh
>he fails the save, loses a single guardsman
>one
>his face just drops
>he starts to cry
>what
>he's individually named every guardsman
>can't stand to see them die
>the loss of Paul has shaken him to his core
>he immediately quits and starts packing up his models
>never plays a game of 40K again
It was an experience.

Not mad, just saying. I'm just a bit curt where things I'm talking about intersect with things I don't like, but that have happened to me.

I mean, if you have to fudge the dice to keep your players alive, you did something wrong. Or they did, but now you're keeping them from having to face the consequences of their actions. Either way, not great GMing.

Did you attend the funeral?

Prove to me that fudging dice is a bad thing. Fun and telling a good story is the object.

Nice story user.

If the dice make a shitty, boring story, you overrule the dice. That's basic DMing.

>a general for that guy stories
We're not Veeky Forums, dammit. There doesn't have to be a general for every single topic on Veeky Forums! What's next? /ocg/ - Original content general?

That sounds like a great idea! Your double dubs agree!!!

Why are rogues/thieves such shitters? There's something about that class that attracts the most insufferable of assholes.

Muh edgy lone wolf

The crafty ones always play thieves, but you can't backstab the Game Master.

Don't respond to this guy. He's either an autist, an idiot, or a troll, and you never argue with either of the three. His entire thing is saying 'fudging the dice is wrong waaah' and then consistently denying that things like the PCs just rolling consistently low and getting fucked up by a level appropriate encounter ever happens.

... Try again.

What is it with bloody rogues?

>Go to a new town with party, an Eldritch Knight, a Monk, a Cleric, and That Guys Rogue.
>Rogue decides he wants to cosy up to local thieves guild
>They give him quest to shake down a local barkeep for protection money, a la Skyrim
>He takes the money from the Barkeep then murders him
>Goes back to guild and lies, saying he was dead when he got there. Keeps the protection money
>Meanwhile, the rest of the party is helping the local guards solve a murder
>We get news of the barkeeps murder and are told to help with this one too
>Eventually we work out its the Rogue and we hunt him down and arrest him
>OOC That Guy convinces us to help him
>fuckit.exe
>We tell the guards he was probably framed. He's sneaky, but not a murderer
>Guards let him go
>Meanwhile, a local monastery arrests our cleric for worshipping an "Evil" god.
>Party tries to get people who he helped to let prove he's a good, innocent man
>Rogue decides to spread lies about him, about how he murders kids and shit
>Just after we saved the fucker

omg that's so sad!

Is it wrong that all these Rogue stories are making me legitimately angry?

I think That Guy is just naturally attracted to scummy classes. Like 3.5e Rangers.

>3.5e rangers
I never got that.

Because Rangers are shit. If you're making an archer or TWF, then pick a Fighter and spend three feats on ranged attack/TWFing. If you're making an asshole who wants dat knot then you become a Druid. And finally, if you just want to be a wilderness-wanderer or whatever the fuck, play a Scout.

Level 2 Rapid shot was disgraceful, especially when you Min/Maxed right. Played with a Ranger who missed one attack in 15 sessions. He rolled a 6 and still bloody hit.

The first time I played DnD (it was 4e) our DM threw us a gargantuan Bone Ooze and a 900 feet tall Corpse Gatherer on the first night. We survived thanks to our female Paladin who prayed to Bahamut and convinced the god to smite the shit out of the bastards. In return, the paladin got pregnant with a demigod Dragonborn.

The second day he threw a Nightmare Beast at us, while my character (wizard) somehow convinced the godess Solinari to let me borrow a Gorgon, so I mounted it and the fucking beast hauled ass to a cave that contained some sort of dimensional gate to the domain of the beast, the gorgon and the nightmare fucker fought and I barely scaped with 6 HP.

Now I'm pretty new to this setting, and I don't really know if all that shit is plausible, but tell me lads, does our GM hates us?

>you will never have a GM like this

youtube.com/watch?v=wgX-qKSefGE

>last character died, have to make a new one
>decide to skip next session because IRL shit
>session that I skipped ends with party in some dungeon searching for a magic rod that can help defeat a black dragon that has been terrorizing the land
>DM recommends I make a character who would already be in the dungeon and meet up with the party there
>DM's setting has a secret society that is dedicated to collecting and storing away magical artifacts so they can't be misused
>decide to make a Rogue, an agent of that faction, who was sent into the same dungeon as the party to claim the same staff they were after
>meet the party, we venture deeper into the dungeon, encounter construct guardian
>construct explains that the staff sought by the party is deeper in, but so also is some evil-sounding book that can grant control of the dead or some such
>party explains why they need the magic staff to the guardian
>decide the staff will probably be safe enough in the party's hands, and the book sounds more dangerous anyway
>party makes it to where the staff is held
>everyone agrees "I have no need for that evil book"
>tell them I'm taking it then since we've already disabled all the traps, and passed all the challenges, the dungeon is now wide open and we have no idea who might come claim the book next
>party instantly surrounds me
>starts interrogating me about why I want the book, start claiming that it's suspicious that I'd break into a dungeon and steal a powerful artifact like that
>quickly remind them that they're here to do the exact same thing, and I didn't interfere with them getting their item so what moral high ground do they have to make demands
>they draw weapons and tell me there's no way they're letting me take the book
>decide to give the book the LG leader of the group, to hold on to until I can prove to the party that I can be trusted
>figure this would be a good hook for continuing to travel with them
>5 minutes later, trades the book away to an NPC

It's not. Gods don't normally show up and meddle in the affairs of mortals. Not until you're like past level 15 or so, and that's if you're lucky.

>be successful business man
>but not actually, all my businesses keep going bankrupt
>desperately consult with my advisors on what to do
>they suggest I go "all in"
>start researching the working class
>eventually develop a winning strategy void of any content
>win over the progressives and laugh all the way to my grave
was he that guy Veeky Forums?

You all like That Guy stories, but you'll never acknowledge the truth: most of the time, That Guy is you.

At that point you have two options:
>Make the endeavor more trouble than it is worth.
Once she brings up opening the place as a pub, have her find a business ledger from the old owner showing that the place didn't make enough money for the old owner to live on. Have the contractor refuse to work in the area because it is dangerous. Have him ask for her proof of ownership. (you didn't give them the deed did you?)
>Let her then do what said.

>party is being lead through an underground labyrinth by a dwarven military general
>supposed to be rescuing the king who was kidnapped and taken down there
>things are going generally well
>suddenly entire party is paralyzed
>no saves and no one can move a muscle
>dwarf turn's out to be satyr from two sessions ago who was never said to have had shapeshifting abilitie's
>satyr steals everyone's blood and a few arbitrary items
>satyr monologues a good page of dialogue
>uses items to summon giant goblin demon with flaming penis shaped whip
>nothing anyone in the party could do to stop this
>I was the DM

It was my first campaign and I still think about it and cringe.

Time to do that guy rogue thing and kill him

>he plays IG
>he doesn't individually name them after people he hates xcom style

>GMing for a group with 2 rogues

Hold me anons

Worst the ranger did here was escalate the insult duel into a brawl, he even restrained himself when you told him to

Some dude coming from a thieves guild acts as a greedy jerk, big surprise!

>he goes back to the party explaining their new mission, however they want to know what happened to the silver the sheriff promised
>rogue says sheriff is a dick and strong-armed him into completing one more task before he pays them
Did you mean to impy he kept the silver? Because if that's it, I'm havibg trouble believing a sherif would hand the silver to someone he considers "the bad sort".

Also
>Friend of the DM would rather trust the DM witholding the money than the heroes that saved him
That doesn't sound suspicious at all

A "pretty high" persuade roll shouldn't have had that effect on the bartender, honestly. Suspicious enough he'd know who to have the guard go after if shit goes wrong? Sure. But suspicious enough to instantly jump to the conclusion that something illegal is about to happen between to customers that came in together?

>I slap him
I really, really hope you're not having an issue over the rogue having learnt to show restraint and not kill the other players

But then again, you somehow expected him to catch up with the guys that insulted him, that he stole from and that got him handed to the guard. And you expected him to complete the quest of some dude that hates his guts despite being left with pretty much nothing.

>I’ll probably get to kill his cancer character
>I will harrass the shit out of him
Come on, don't be that DM. Stealing back his stuff could be a nice way to hand him some plot hook that makes him rejoin the party, possibly on good terms this time. And a new character seems like the perfect oportunity to convince him of making a character that isn't a jerk. It seems to me like he might actually listen.

Why are you getting so worked up over in-character drama and character flaws?

>DMing a group of RL friends
>Games been going strong for like 3 years
>Rogue is one of the best players
>Has a very clear idea of his character and motivations
>Started as CN, pretty much only cared about himself, and is developing into NG, uses his strength and skills to help those who can't help themselves
>Doesn't steal from the others, actually handles the money to make sure that everyone gets a fair share

This.These are all really good ideas. Player Character enthusiasm and attachment are really important. Rather than trying to dissuade them from caring about the random things they get attached to, it's better to find ways to spin adventures out of them.

Alright, I've got multiple stories to share.

first will be doodles.

Doodle is the name I refer to him by, the provided pic of him trying to draw kirby,

anyway, first story.

Doodles was playing a were-wolf character with negative IQ. which is the only way I can explain some of his actions

>on a mission to save Santa, finds him and then blasts him with a shotgun claiming 'it was obviously an imposter'.
>fighting a wizard who is able to mess with gravity and manages to form a black hole. Werewolf tries to punch it, loses an arm, tries to punch with other arm, loses it, then nearly goes to head butt it before other PCs with more common sense stop him.
>once went into a coma and begin muttering in his sleep that his uncle and dad used to whip him, which came out of absolutely no where.
>eventually brought the werewolf back as a ghost were wolf that tried to eat robots
>never figured out that there were other ways to enter a room than blasting the door lock with a shotgun to try and breech and clear. This is what led to the Santa incident mentioned earlier

Doesn't sound that bad desu. If you were on a mission to save Santa it can't be a very serious campaign anyway, sounds like he's just playing his character for laughs.

Unless your player's are the chosen ones, they shouldn't have any plot armor for their characters.

There is zero tension in battle when the possibility to lose doesn't exist.

And before anyone says story trumps everything else, fine, if you want to predetermine something, go for it, but then there's no reason to roll dice.

Don't pretend to do one thing, but really do another. Don't pretend to want random chance and then dismiss some of those possibilities.

There's zero need for it. You're the GM, you already control the entire setting and the story.

I try to focus on the game side of things rather than taking pot shots at the actual player. But I can assure that he really thought he was playing the best character. He threatens to have his characters commit suicide when it seems like they aren't getting respected enough, gets passive aggressive when he's not in command, always finds a way to try and shoe horn fall out into his creations (he has a large powered armor fetish), and he seems to have an obsession with making an enclave soldier date a fox girl/mutant.

if it's funny to you, that's cool, because I do laugh at him rather than rage. But doodles won't think what he's doing is funny but be completely serious about it.

Ah, now that sounds terrible. See, without you having said that, it just sounds like fun shenanigans. Any more stories? I'm basically eating this stuff up so I know what to look out for as a GM, both in myself and in my players.

>friend completely rips character from an anime even down to the icon
>this has happened so many times its not even worth asking him to stop

While I won't bag on doodles anymore, I've beaten that horse enough for today. There is another story I can give you to help you on look out.

Spear, different guy from doodle, was a rookie when he joined up. He was new, so mistakes were obviously going to be made, that's just how you learn. However over time i noticed that despite saying he was open to listening and critique, he never really changed his play style.

he would try to say how other people reacted to his character, looked for the smallest excuse to have his character go berserk, and then had one of his characters go around asking women what their bra sizes were.

outside the game, he 'joked' that all the female players were his harem and was a first class ass kisser. You know that type of guy that only gets interested in a thing to seem cool and then says a bunch of out-dated and semi-relevant memes? That was spear.

some what related, but since I don't dark souls, could Artorias take on a 40k space marine and a tank at the same time and win? And is his skin chainsword proof? because according to spear he could and it was.

I don't know all that much about the lore but I know that Artorias' sword's handle was about twice the height of my character, so this is one BIG fucker.

he's in no way chainsword proof, i dunno about a tank, but the dude literally oozes the Dark Souls equivalent of Chaos during the fight against him.
he could probably take a space marine or two in his prime, considering his dominant hand is broken when you fight him and he's still a bitch of a fight

well put

>because according to spear he could and it was.

Where did he come up with this retarded idea? Comparing apples to oranges doesn't even begin to describe what he's doing.

well I suppose I won't consider that incident a complete fuck up then. Spear still had a retarded incident where he made artorias go berserk just because he saw a guy wearing black clothing, but at least the resulting fight didn't shatter everything barring the part where he said Artorias's skin was thick enough to stop chainsaws.

still, this stuff is probably pretty general advice anyone has heard a ton of times. Look out for ass kissers and people that don't improve despite attempts to help, and also weebs will be the death of any game.

>you are having badwrongfun idiots
Stop sucking so much dick faggot

What do you mean? Is he trying to kill the party? What is going on?

Please elaborate

I think half the time it's just poor communication. They want to play a character who's like Han Solo: the mysterious, dangerous guy in the corner of the bar, who eventually warms up to the party and becomes a reliable friend. Maybe not that exact arc, but the same general idea of a a dangerous cold guy who eventually warms. However their initial rough edges rub people the wrong way and feelings get hurt and things spiral.

Generally I think if you have a character arc in mind you should give the other players a one or two sentence description of it. People are generally more than willing to play along.

The last one I played was as a "thief be desperation" the character having had to turn to thievery in their backstory to survive. They were academic, brushing on Sage territory but people (the party) kept lowering them down holes on ropes to see of they could find anything. I was completely honest with everything in the party (after all I was travelling with them and they were my protection) so of course they always felt I was holding out on them or about to steal something.

If the DM didn't make that book fall into the hands of a necromancer who wants to start a zombie apocalypse, that is a wasted opportunity.

>LG takes away an evil necromancy book because a stranger might use it for evil
>immediately gives it to another stranger

It's a class based around being a sneaky backstabbing shitter and robbing people for fun. Who else but insufferable assholes would be attracted to that?

My character, while greedy, has her own goals that aren't far apart from the party. Make money, set up trade routes, and open an adventurer's inn/tavern. My character goes out of her way to find ways to build good will with NPCs, make deliveries for established guilds, and make certain people are mostly well off.

This will all pay off in the end when she retires.

Strange, every rogue player I've ever known has been a bro. I myself always play a supportive role, scouting, taking point, clearing the path ahead when the party is struggling to wade through dangerous territory. I like to support the team from the sidelines so they can do their thing and turn up just in time to save the day when they end up in direct conflict.

Bait.

Bait... bait never changes...

epic!! fallout reference my man +1

Have two rogues in the party:

>one plays a Mastermind just to support the team and is a total bro
>other sold a party member into seriously weird shit, which killed that PC and our druid. Then sold out our party again.

Exactly. People are scared to kill off a player character ever even though the characters are in an inherently dangerous profession, and when there is death, the ones that do manage to survive become that much more special.

I never try to murder the party, but when I play my villains and monsters smart, and they do their damndest to do so, and things seem grim for the players, they will sometimes surprise you with some truly creative solution to save the day. I've always found it a disservice to try to take that away from them.

Bait... bait never changes...

Unless of course, you do not have perfect system mastery and realize too late that what should have been a doable, or even trivial task, is much harder than you made it out to be at the outset, or that you didn't calculate the probabilities with all numbers taken into account.

When the players set up a good defensive watch when they camp for the night, and the two people who are on watch duty manage to fail their vision and hearing checks against a 14 band of enemies, something which is infinitesimally small and would yield to a TPK by RAW, I fudge, and I make no apologies for something like that.

not to mention a lot of newbie Rangers think that Hide skill works like Stealth so they're always invisible, and that the feats mean that they can shoot something ridiculous like 6 or 8 arrows per turn like a machine gun.

I've been listening in on a campaign off and on for a little while now. It's got a history of fuckery, but here's the most recent "that guy" situation coming out of it:
>DM isn't new to D&D but he's new to DMing
>DMing for a large party of around 8 or so
>every party member is new to D&D except "that guy"
>"that guy" is playing a cleric who worships some death god, I didn't catch the name
>obsessed with death and enslaving people, everywhere they go, the cleric tries to murder or enslave someone
>he's tried to enslave the party multiple times and constantly hogs the spotlight and acts like party leader
>they get a quest to save a boy from an evil boss
>they find and rescue the boy before battling the big boss, cleric convinces the boy that he owes him for the rescue so he makes him his personal boy slave and "wizard apprentice"
>session ends there and DM accidentally lets slip that the boy is actually a noble with a powerful family
>next session, now armed with this meta knowledge of a future plot, cleric does everything he can to condition the noble slave boy to do whatever he wants
>"scripted event" with the big boss soon after, everyone makes rolls that they all fail the DC for, everyone is put to sleep except 1 guy who is not the cleric
>big boss kidnaps the noble boy again
>this sets off the cleric, he gets into argument with the DM that he couldn't be put to sleep because of how much HP he has
>players all later voice in private how much he's fucking up everyone's fun
>find out DM wants to kick the guy out but is afraid to
>"that guy" cleric is someone he knows irl and the DM for the irl D&D game their friend group holds and he seems like the kind of person who would retaliate in said irl group

>so I will harrass the shit out of him via his patron.
Dude, just tell him to leave if he's shitting up your campaign.

Woah

It's much more fun to deal with it IC.

>>DMing for a large party of around 8 or so
never do this

It really isn't.