Arms and Armors

Also have a spangenhelm, not really early medieval but still

Tight!

HAHA I am scanning it. Read it recently and it's easily on par with Oriental Armour as far as introductory texts go.

Also reminded me that we had some dude sperg out over dagger axes here a couple of years ago. Dropped a whole essay on the then-current status of research on us.

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There was a great photodump on /k/ of the Styrian Armory collection, some years back. Would have been great to post if I had it.

Man, I can't for the life of me recall if photographing was even allowed in there. Either way, no way to get any good shot outta that place without a flash.

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youtube.com/watch?v=W5Z6Aez6T3c

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ah, awesome. that's painted on a wall in the reichsmuseum in amsterdam.

Were lances and spears used by cavalry ever used two-handed or was that ineffective, causing a one-handed style to only ever be used?

the opposite, they were two handed for a long time

That's interesting to know. I wonder what caused the shift to use with spears. I have another question, could heavy lances be used outside of charging or would they only be useful on the charge and the wielders would drop them and draw hand weapons after the initial attack?

I think my arms & armor folders have more images combined than my porn folders.

I think I may have a problem.

Upload it as a pdf if possible, thanks.

Also try to get a hold of "Classical Weaponry of Japan", by Serge Mol.

I'd have scanned it myself, but mine was on loan from a library that was super autistic about damage, and I didn't want to accidentally rip it and have to pay out the ass.

Anyone know what time in history clownfag's helmet is from?

That's odd, but looks very mid-1400s to my eyes.

early 21st century Scadian.

I think its meant to be bellows-faced sallet of circa 1495 to 1520, but frankly, its a bit shit. its got the beak for an armet, without any of an actual armet's construction methods. most bellows sallets didnt have that. there's one or two shitty repros out there of visored sallets which have the beak, but I've yet to see a reliable original.

the closest might the trevanion sallet - sadly we dont have much information about that one, as it was stolen from its storage place in the mid-20th C, and never found.

In all, its really a pretty shitty helmet, which has been pimped with some feathers to try to stop people noticing its a bit shit.

Does it matter what era it's from?

Ah, it was odd then.

The lances were made to be huge to overcome the reach advantage that foot spearmen and pikemen had. They got to be cumbersome and unwieldy. If you ended up off your horse or in the thick of combat still on your mount... that shit was worthless. A good mace or sword would be much better for that. As pikemen fell out of style in most places in favor of various ethnic styles of warfare, the two handed pikes were not needed to overcome the reach advantage. I would want a small shield because fuck getting slammed with arrows, javelins, darts, stones, lead pellets, and whatever else the rabble launch at me

God damn you're a salty cunt.

Its a (admittedly slightly modified for ACL/HMB) rendition of a sallet by Matthes Deutsch of Landshut, between 1485–1505. Pic related.

Cry more.

The 14th century "Kitab al-Furusiyya va'l-Baytara" mentions a few different styles of holding you lance while on horseback, four IIRC, with only one being the couched and single hardened way we're used to, the others being with both hands.

mediafire.com/file/f12sdndb7k5tqtd/Munyatul_Guzat.pdf

The weapon that George Silver, famous English swordsmaster and hater of rapiers, most admired: the Welch Hook, aka Forest Bill, a type of billhook. I'll post a couple more since I feel like Britfagging.

It was one of the cornerstones of the Met's authentication programs. There was years of back and forth between confirmation of it being an authentic original, and it being a Victorian "frankenhelm" before modern metallurgical research solved the enigma. .

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I think Gropey wins this one.

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>It was one of the cornerstones of the Met's authentication programs

that'll be Bashford "cut up 14th C harness parts to make a frankensuit" Dean's work, that needed an authentication programme because LaRocca and Breidling couldnt take it any longer having to deal with the monumental cockups he made?

"admittedly slightly modified"

slightly?
the beak is about twice as long as it should be and throws the proportions of the whole thing off, the reinforce is too wide, the pivot point is too far back and the proportions of the visor side parts is a mess.

who the hell was the armourer? Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder, or Helen Keller?

Per usual billhook form they're ugly as fuck

> of a sallet by Matthes Deutsch of Landshut

the only part of that composite harness that's marked as by Matthes Deutsch is the right pauldron/spaulder.

its got italian couters with german besagews and spaulders, italian legs, with german tassets. God alone knows what the standard was from.

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The changes in dimensions was to accommodate the required coverage of the helm and locking systems for ACL/IMC/HMB rule sets, while still being fit to the dimensions of my head and neck, as well as my stereotypical Italian nose. I also have a perf plate visor for fencing, and a more accurate visor with shorter beak for historic event uses. Also, the picture isn't a great angle. Here is one more profile look.

The metallurgical composition, as well as the general stylistic workmanship have been in recent years, attached to Matthes, and yes there are both Italian styled (though domestically produced) and imported pieces in that particular harness, but that doesn't bother me at all because that is quite normal for the period and region. I am not remaking that particular harness, and just liked the helm, which is indeed documentable to the period and region of the rest of my kit.

I was under the impression that German and Italian armor was pretty incestuous.

Might be my pics you're thinking of.

mediafire.com/file/hcc9tc2dtgskzt9/Austria_-_Landzeughaus_Graz.rar

Some bits got rather dark, but overall it wasn't so bad.

Very much so. South German and North Italian armor is hard to tell apart.

Bolonga has the best beer in Italy and the best pasta in Germany

>Bolonga has the best beer in Italy and the best pasta in Germany
Stealing this.

That's a load of bologna.

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>Stealing this.
Found the Sicilian.

*Rimshot*

Taking dump requests.

>It was one of the cornerstones of the Met's authentication programs

>that'll be Bashford "cut up 14th C harness parts to make a frankensuit" Dean's work, that needed an authentication programme because LaRocca and Breidling couldnt take it any longer having to deal with the monumental cockups he made?

I need to know more please.

post ur fav helmet type!

Forever and ever.

I am not 100% clear on the whos and whats before the program, but Brashford Dean was a one-man wrecking ball when it came to cannibalizing or modifying historic artifact in the worst ways, for the sake of aesthetics or display. Scrubbing off paint, gilding and bluing to cater to the popculture ideal of the "knight in shining armour" is the least of his crimes.

Sallet is king, though barbutes are welcome too.

>Scrubbing off paint, gilding and bluing to cater to the popculture ideal of the "knight in shining armour"
You triggered me, good sir.

I thought this was a Welsh Hook.

Give me a sallet(preferably painted) any day, there's something beautiful about the curves and visor shape

This. Armet takes the honorable second place.

he also had a habit of chopping up pieces of original armour to fit together into "complete" harnesses.

ie, taking a fauld that he'd got from one source, and punching new holes in it to fit it to a different breast. taking one half of a bevor, cutting it back, so another part from another bevor could be fitted together, and make it "complete".

this harness, for instance, is probably made up for parts from in excess of 10 different harnesses - the helmet's one piece (I think), but the brigandine/coat of places is utterly non-functional, with a huge number of fuckups and plates that are locked and immobile.

arms and legs are cobbled together from multiple parts too

Black sallets get my dick hard.

>mount and blade fashion

as they should

Brigandines tended to be worn in combination with mail shirts and gambesons. Of the three, which one was the most protective?

brigandines. They form a near solid breastplate, though they aren't as good as a solid one

It's best to wear all three, but you could make due without the mail shirt. Only the poorest professional soldiers wouldn't have some kind of solid chest piece after brigandines became common

That trio needs a name. They look too jubilant for their purpose.

We need more WW1 armor

Was chainmail always worn underneath the breastplate or just a Gambeson? I know that as plate articulation became better, chainmail was fazed out of the joints.

it really depends on the time period and location. At the beginning of the 14th century, a full mail shirt would be worn underneath. Some people even wore just a breastplate, with only the chainmail protecting their backs. As time went on, some countries tended to wear just the breastplate and gambeson, while other countries still wore the whole kit.

It really came down to the individual. Do you want to wear an extra 15 pounds of metal? Some people decided that the extra weight was acceptable in exchange from the added protection. Some didn't, and they would just wear voiders. I believe it was the Germans that went without voiders entirely, as they still restricted movement slightly

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>The changes in dimensions was to accommodate the required coverage of the helm and locking systems for ACL/IMC/HMB rule sets

Its sucks, but must be done. What do you use for padding?

Rate my bascinet.

You got any especially impressive hauberks or chausses, or failing that, general crusade era?

Nice sets of mail always make me feel giddy and like a little child.

What about chainmail coifs? Did those continue to be used under helmets due to needing less freedom of movement compared to arm and leg plate armor?

Frog-mouth Bascinet or bust.

That's a griffon bascinet you idiot. This is a frog mouth bascinet.

Well shit, I stand corrected. Still, I stand by what I said.

Anyone have pics of half plate?

>half plate?
You better be using that word correctly boy.

I don't understand?

To be honest at this point I expect to be told it's the imaginary construct of D&D writers who had no idea what medieval armor actually looks like.

So please correct me.

K E T T L E
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best armor

Reminds me, does anyone of you have an OCR-software package? I got a nice article about the use and maintainance of Brigandine based on the experiences of a reenactment-troop that has been using them for over a decade here. It's in french though.

You mean this right.

Dude basically was fursexual for "complete" sets of armour. He went to shameful and disgusting lenght to indulge in his fetish.

I guess? I'm not exactly sure anymore. The definition is so wide. Got any more?

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>Also try to get a hold of "Classical Weaponry of Japan", by Serge Mol.

Can do, but frankly I won't guarantee that I'll actually scan it right here, because the title and cover make it appear similar to Turnbull's ninja-book.

I did scan most of the plates and some of the content of that book on the Spatha unearthed during the Illerup Ada-excavations though. Didn't bother with the ones about shields, spears, tools or bows.

Hey anons, what is the exact name of this type of helmet? I just bought one only to realize that despite all I know about armor through history, I have no idea what this is called.

Sugarloaf helm.

Sugarloaf