/hhg/ aka Horus Heresy General

Brexit with Titans when?

>implying WE are the best melee legion
It's all about BA and SW.

Sadness. Maybe we get more like 2e 40k, but I doubt it. Sigmar is all the rage, so lets jump on that dumpster fire while it's still hot.

I expect the new rules to be a mix of 2e and Sigmar, I think Shadow War will be a preview of sorts for the new rules.

Im excited for the change.

Are Legion Terminators viable in legions which have special Terminators?
Also how realistic is it to expect for the remaining three legions to get their own Terminators?

No, blast templates determine how many models are hit. I'm talking about units.

This is not a radical concept. I've played a few historical wargames where cannons caused X number of hits on a target unit and larger pieces, like artillery batteries, have an area of effect where all units caught in it take X number of hits, rather than having to fiddle with templates and figure out how many models got a bad touch.

>Are Legion Terminators viable in legions which have special Terminators?

Depends on the unit and what suit you want them in.

>Also how realistic is it to expect for the remaining three legions to get their own Terminators?

DA? Yes, BA? Maybe, WS? I'd be surprised if they did, I expect a special bike unit and either a Jump Pack or just infantry unit that comes with it Transport.

For most legions the generic terminators are for getting special weapons or different armor type. I think TS Sekhmets are the only ones where you would never take generics.

>DA? Yes
DA are getting extra OP RoWs instead of special units.
Grav-Raider may or may not be an exception.

I dunno, if marines have a move of 4" per turn (as they did in older editions) then big footslogging blobs may not be that viable. It'll take longer to run across the board, so they'll eat more bullets on the way.

Tartaros are often better than unique termies. Being able to get them in plastic in the BoP box is an added benefit.

BA might, while they're not usually a terminator faction in 40k they were the original stars of Space Hulk if I remember right. Dark Angels absolutely will, as they're the original terminator spam chapter. White Scars almost certainly won't, as they'd be much better served with unique bikes, jetbikes and mechanized infantry.

They've discussed some changes.
AP modifiers are back, meaning bolters are lethal now, blob armies will cry in ranged, but charging units go first now, and morale is like demonic instability.
I am glad just to hear that armour and piercing is no longer dichotomic; it'll introduce more granularity in match-ups.

>WS terminators in roller blades
>UNDERSTAND THE UNDERSTAND
>UNDERSTAND THE UNDERSTAND
>CONCEPT OF CONCEPT OF LOVE

Anons were mad meming about autocannons in 8e in the 40k thread, but I'm finding merit with the idea and plan to stock up on autocannon bits.

AP and sweeping advance not being all-or-nothing ought to make the game more fun in general. Picking up your dudes after they get deleted en masse is never fun, especially if you don't really get a roll or no roll at all.

Basically, any time the game feels like only the active player is actually playing a game - i.e., Tau shooting - is not a fun experience.

We know too little really to say anything for sure. Morale sounds retarded for example but doesn't yet mean it will be.

Same goes for armoursave modifiers. If done right then very little actually changes and AP 4 weapons become a little more usefull. If they go overboard with giving weapons armour modifiers then we go back to the situation in 2e where any armoursave is meaningless and marines desperately taking cover from heavy bolter fire.

GW also makes it sound like things aren't final yet, so here's hoping they're gonna take feedback and adjust things accordingly.

The new morale system, if it is a carbon copy of the AoS version, would mean removing even more models all the time. It means if you lose a lot of models, you're likely going to fail the test and have to remove even more models. Which would be the final nail on the coffin of 20 man tactical squads.

Building my first units, I have a question: What would be a decent loadout for a TS praetor in Cataphract TDA to go after?
I have a Cataphract hero, a spare Ahriman and, for what it it worth, Geigor, plus an assload of of spare weapons. between Ahriman and the Cataphract I thought I could get a decent combination, but I am really uncertain what to arm him with.

Uh, what about the Keshig, guys?

Maybe a chainfist or thunderhammer or something. With Catapractii armour TS can get a 3++, which makes it a lot more tempting to go for the slow melee weapons that will fuck shit up for sure.

Paragon blade is the only real standard equipment. TS praetors can get stupid expensive due to mastery levels so there's some wisdom in going bare bones.

I honestly would kit him out for melee face tanking with sekhmet bodyguards.

Autocannons are already surprisingly efficient,. I intend to get a ten-man squad.

Once they eventually get around to making a RoW with troop Heavy Support squads I'm IF so I NEEEED it, it'll be perfect.
They'll probably get a points raise though, if they do indeed turn 3+ into ~5+.

I agree about sweeping advance.
AP will make shooting more lethal because few shooting weapons have no AP value. Unless they give CCWs an AP value now, AP giving reduction to armour saves will make melee a real rock-paper-scissors where assault-focused units will mop the floors with shooting units.
It also probably means power mauls are back in a big way.

2Slow4Khan

Yes.
He doesn't need to take a force weapon because odds are he'll have psychic melee buffs, or else psychic dakka to make up for the lack of ID.

>AP will make shooting more lethal because few shooting weapons have no AP value. Unless they give CCWs an AP value now, AP giving reduction to armour saves will make melee a real rock-paper-scissors where assault-focused units will mop the floors with shooting units.
That also depends on how existing armor saves work once it's translated. Granted, this a D6 system, so they don't have much lower to go, and so a 3+ isn't going to be a 1+ before modifiers. So, yeah, I don't know, but since they have to do 40k warscrolls to add movement for everyone they'd may redo an awful lot of AP values as well. Depends on how ambitious this is going to be.

What do you think?

>Once they eventually get around to making a RoW with troop Heavy Support squads I'm IF so I NEEEED it, it'll be perfect.

But user, you can just put all your autocannons on attack bikes for relentless.

give it the same stats as the ones on the knight styrix, s8 ap3 heavy 5

What's the math of rerolls vs +1dice results?

I can see ap values scaling between 1 to 3 for modifiers with rerolls sprinkled for more granularity

Yeah, that is a powerful combo. However, it seems somewhat wasteful to shoot vehicles given the bolters, attacks, and HoW they have.

Yeah, no. It's the other nail. I'm assuming English is not your first language? "Nails in your brain" is a common way that people describe headaches and migraines.

TS Praetor gear really depends on how many points you need to squeeze out of the army. If you can afford termie armor with praetor's blade, go for it. Otherwise, just shave. Downgrade praetor's blade to a force blade. Downgrade termie armor to artificer. Praetor should be one of the last things you adjust in your list.

Depending on how they do it, cover providing positive armoursave modifiers could work nice. It would mean that cover is always usefull, and not dependent on the AP of enemy weapons.
But they should include the Roll of 1 always fails though.

I like that cover adds more armor thing.

I do wish invulnerable saves do the ward save thing as a separate additional roll.
It's so stupid that a terminator armour force field stops working because the terminator hid behind a wall.

I was thinking in general, I'm aware Grave Wardens and Deathshroud make Terminators redundant outside Chainfist/Combi spam, while some such as Gorgons and Lernaeans are straight upped regulars. Or some specifics that synergise so well with their LA, like Red Butchers.
So basically, unless going for equipment, one's better off with specials (points allowing)?
Thanks for all the answers.

I'm especially hopeful for the Dark Angels because they are my favourite angry spooky marines, but since the wait may take up to a year I've started looking elsewhere since I got a few terminators for cheap, the Sons of Horus (although I'm a loyalist deep down) or Imperial Fists to be specific.

How's that? It'll be better for business if they sell more minis.

Uploading currently, but it will take a while because slow speed.

There's no reason to not pick Ahriman, he's a superior choice everytime.

>There's no reason to not pick Ahriman
I can think of 8 off the top of my head.

What if you want to fuck shit up in melee?

I haven't thought about in great detail, but I think it could make sense for AP to provide a modifier based on how far it is from 6, representing a scaling effectiveness of armour piercing.
So:
>AP6 does nothing besides invalidating 6+ saves. (0)
>AP5 invalidates 5+ and 6+, and turns 4+ into 5+, and so on. (-1)
>AP4 invalidates 4+ and below, turns 3+ into 5+, 2+ into 4+ (-2)
>AP3 turns 2+ into 5+ (-3)
>AP2 invalidates armour saves (as it does now)

I don't know where invulnerable saves would stand in that system though. Maybe just say they're static no matter what, although in the case of termies, the main invulnerable saved unit, that amounts to saying "this is your save against AP2", or for Cataphractii, "your save can't be worse than this".

>So basically, unless going for equipment, one's better off with specials (points allowing)?
Again, not necessarily. Gorgons are just Indominus with a FNP and the option to take a graviton pulse gun, but without the option to take volkite or combi-weapons, and they can't make sweeping advances. I don't think they're flat out better than Tartaros at all, although the FNP for low cost is certainly decent.

So for my ferrus manus bodyguard in a spartan: Do I go with 8 cataphracts, or 7 gorgons?

The cataphracts already have 6+ FNP because of Ferrus so I'm not sure gorgons are worth it. How useful is the Blind thing?

Seems a tad wimpy, since it's less armoured with worse saves and HP than a Manta, costs the same and transports the same, so I intended to give it bigger guns to compensate. Replacing a weapon that's either a straight D shot, or a S7 Ap3 10" blast.

>Phosis T'kar

Legion Name Power Levels
>(ranked alphabetically within each Tier)

Emperor of Mankind Tier
>White Scars
>Word Bearers
>World Eaters

High Tier
>Emperor's Children
>Iron Warriors
>Imperial Fists
>Sons of Horus

Good Tier
>Alpha Legion
>Dark Angels
>Luna Wolves
>Raven Guard
>Thousand Sons

Meh Tier
>Iron Hands
>Salamanders

Edgy Tier
>Blood Angels
>Death Guard
>Night Lords

Pun Tier
>Ultramarines

What Were They Thinking Tier
>Space Wolves

Some great rule ideas in here. GW should be taking notes.

The blind also hits your own units nearby, so not that usefull actually.

Abolish AP, use the WHFB system. S4 lowers armour by 1, S5 by 2 and so on.

But we can't take gal vorbaks :^(

>AP modifiers are back, meaning bolters are lethal now
Wotz dat??

This is honestly what I had more in mind when I first read it. When people said it made all saves worse I was a little surprised.

Yeah, I'm thinking that because of them already having 6+ and because of plastic cataphracts that I'll go with cataphracts. But man, gorgons look great.

>>Space Wolves
You mean Vlka Fenryka right?

I don't really expect anything to change. I doubt we will be going to the new ruleset.

>ranked alphabetically

>Iron Warriors
>Imperial Fists

>Vlka Fenryka
You mean The Rout right?

>The Rout
I assume you're talking about The Wolves that Stalk the Stars?

I've got a second Ahriman and the TDA guy, might as well get some use out of them, right? I mean, Ahriman is a buff-dispenser anyway, his direct killing power seems lacking to me, so having a brawler HQ seems not awful.

FW already said at the weekender that HH will always be in the most current ruleset. Don't be dumb, there will be no divergence because that will kill the game in stores where it's only just starting to pick up steam.

Those Furry Faggots, you mean?

Are you guys talking about the Space Yiffs ?

I thought we were talking about the Takers of Knots.

>tfw caught the mistake after ctrl-c'ing but didn't recopy it

You means the Sons of Wossname, #6?

>the joke
>
>your head

I was just fooling the guy asking the question
Misdirection is the Path of the Hydra

Shut up user, I can dream.

fair enough, didn't know you had two, though they are two to a penny since most sell him.

Wasn't aware of English idiom. Well I imaged it as nails/talons clawing/gripping your brain hard. Thanks for the input!

I assumed you were the guy asking just reposting in the new thread...

I tend not to take things for granted when on the internet since there's a lot of people that ask questions that sound dumb simply because they don't speak the language very well. My bad for being considerate, I guess

> Storm Walkers
> War Hounds
> Dusk Raiders
> Imperial Heralds
> Dragon Warriors

How about their names?

>Dark Angels
>not edgy tier

Dragon warriors? Who are those? The Salamanders were called The Fearless, but only a few times.

I'm the original poster in previous thread, and I thank you for your consideration.

No problem dude, always nice to see people that actually want to help. Now i feel bad for not explaining it myself.
But you're right, English is not my first language

Waaaait a second.
If the game will now have save modifiers related to the AP value...THAT WILL MAKE SHRAPNEL BOLTS EVEN WORSE
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
FW has shit on us once more!!!

warhammer-community.com/2017/03/23/warhammer-40000-news-from-adepticon/

You really think so? Thanks if so fambalam.

GW have a lot more freedom (and time and incentive) to experiment with more rule changes though, and if they are smart, they'll be rewriting the codexes battlescrolls in tandem, and the left hand WILL know what the right is doing. No more power creep, and hopefully less pay-to-win. inb4 that's heresy

I was only thinking in terms of what (shooting) weapon APs currently are. Melee weapons are a very different thing in my mind than the straightforward issue of shooting. Unwieldy and user strength add variables that aren't there in shooting. Take power axes, for instance: in space marine hands, AP2 is perfectly logical, but I doubt the strongest human could get more than AP3 out of them. Likewise, in the sliding scale system, I'd be worried that AP3 at initiative power swords would be too powerful against AP2, though the lack of strength boost outweighs that against fists, but not so much power axes. Giving terminators power weapons would become viable in this system too, though the chargers-go-first rule would probably reserve an advantage for the current norm of fists.

Compared to shooting, which is a simple thing, I'd be happier seeing GW completely rip out at the melee system and rebuild it with more granularity, like blocking, strength differentials, and whatever else they can think of that's ripe for improvement. It all seems too predictable now. Challenges ought to be their own system separate from general brawls too.

What are you working on /hhg? Here's a jump pack Vigilator I finished last night.

>shrapnel bolters
>bad
how, exactly? is your meta all solar auxilia, tech-thralls and secutarii? because if you're fighting marines all it does is give you pinning for free.

Alternate hand for a themed painting comp.

>THAT WILL MAKE SHRAPNEL BOLTS EVEN WORSE

Why? They'll stay the same relative to the new system or get better as bolters and heavy bolters get some added firepower with a -1 save modifier.

Wow, those legs are THINN

That's for skirmish systems. 40k is a big blob army game.

Nobody wants to play infinity at this scale

If it's dependant on AP values, then they will be worse since Shrapnel bolts reduce their AP from 4 to 5

>he thinks 40k is a big blob army game

you should have seen 8th ed. WHFB pal.

When you got jump packs, you skip legday

That was big blocks game

Thin legs, wide hips, he beats the thigh challenge

Waiting for my Raptor Imperials pauldrons to come in and apply transfers to him.

His use of the word "worse" implies they're bad now, which they're not against anything that isn't full of 4+ armour saves.
The sliding scale system would give them a tradeoff which would mean they'd accomplish much less proportionally than regular HBs against pretty much everything above guardsmen.

>Nobody wants to play infinity at this scale
That said I would love it if GW would make a small scale game that was similar to Infinity. Everyone wants to love Kill Team until they play it, and then they realize it's hot garbage and just doesn't work.

Which ruleset version you guys think was the best so far?