/gurpsgen/ GURPS general thread

Could someone please give a quick glance to this before I leave for a game? It's still just a sketch of a character, since GM first need to accept it, but still.

The talent covers following skills: Boating (Sailship), Cartography, Knot-Tying, Navigation (Sea), Seamanship and Swimming. This is supposed to be for a Danish buccaneer. I couldn't figure out the whole "Reaction bonus", so I've skipped it
And do I really need Math (Applied) and Astronomy to use Navigation properly? I don't even have points left to raise those skills to any meaningful level, while they eat anyway 2 points that could be spend on something already having useful level. From what I understand, skills below 10 are not worth much. Also, is Economics required to have Finance?

How exactly you handle it? Basic Set talks about keeping track of number of days between each scenario and keeping book-log of how long each skill was used in-game, but that only cause a situation when players are eager to prolong in-game breaks. I remember how giddy they've once get when one of the PCs (who was run by a non-regular member of the group) got badly mauled and required a month of hospitalisation, since that gave them an entire month to spend on training. I allowed that that time, because they've started with 100/-15 characters, but each time ever since it feels more like "no, you can't train, or you will get OP" rather than any real justification I can give. It's not raising any tensions, don't get me wrong, but I just feel like shit GM when I can't provide proper justification why players can't benefit from training rules other than "because". Sure, I give 3 points per entire scenario for "the best" player, but the training goes badly.
At least they don't do autistic training to finally come to me and say "Yay! Enough training for skill rise, here is the chart of all those 2-3 hour long training sessions!", or it would be otherwise unbearable for me.

You can drop both of those skills without any effect on Navigation whatsoever. They can be used for supplementry rolls, but the navigation skill assumes you have enough training in both of those fields to handle navigation itself, while not exactly being familiar with calculus or knowing anything more about stars than where to find them and how to use their position.

Same applies to Economics - you can have a high practical skill in regards of making and turning money without theoretical knowledge of economic theories.

Enhanced parry with your skills is not exactly going to make much difference, so you can drop it.

Unless your GM is dickish, Gizmos rarely come to play. They might be useful, but then again, you are managing point budget and Gizmo is one of the easiest advantages to get.

If you are really starved for points, drop Fishing and Riding, too. You can always use those as unmodified roll. Besides riding for a privateer doesn't even sound all that important.

Any particular reason why you have 13 ST? Even if you want to have a slightly higher ST, it would be wiser to drop it to 12, and increase instead DX to 13, using all the points saved from dropped skills. DX is by far the most useful attribute, especially with the type of character you are making.

The way I read it was training points can be earned seperately (or, the points you earn adventuring is on top of what amounts to the 1 point /200 hours or training you can get for downtime.

gurpscalculator.com/WorkStudy

Also for the guy that's in the hospital, even if he spent the max amount of time studying he'd only get 2 CP, tops, at the end of the month if he was self teaching or getting an education.

It wasn't the hospital guy - it was the rest of the party, waiting for him to leave the hospital, being all that happy it took so long, so they could study.

I tend to prefer pure points, with down time training handled as interesting fluff that shows what the characters are up to rather then being closely tracked. It's gamiest, rather then simulationist, but means that man hours for training doesn't need to be tracked and when you get XP there are no gates between you and spending it on advances you've unlocked.

When players get significant down time you can give them a few bonus points to reflect the chance to get a breather and do some training.

The default is you get bonus points for adventuring, and can also increase skills by training over time.

>When players get significant down time you can give them a few bonus points to reflect the chance to get a breather and do some training.
Sounds like the easiest way to bloat 100 point character into 500 Supers within few months

Has anyone figured out how to do d&d wildshape style shaoeshifting for GURPS? Everything I've tried is absurdly expensive...

You could, just a montage of being trained and equipped as an ultimate warrior over a few months until Peter Parker becomes Spiderman.

In my more grounded games down-time bonus CP tends to come to just 2-4 points and a chance to get maybe $200-600 from working.

I owe you a beer. If you are going to ever be in Ostrava, announce yourself in GURPSGEN.

You need for that a radioactive spider and weird science excuse, too

You can either make Morph cheaper by stacking on some intense limitations like Maximum Duration, Limited Use, Pact, Trigger, etc., or you can take a number of Alternative Forms with less restrictive limitation and have all but the most expensive one bought as Alternative Abilities at 1/5 the price.

Alternate Form doesn't run too expensive. Even things like a Bear template only adds so much, then each extra form is only going to cost 15 points that you can reduce with limitations like Magic and Pact (Duity to Nature).

If you want to be able to arbitrarily wild-shape into any form, it's Morph and you are going to spend a LOT of points on it, though a GM might be generous and give -50% or so for Animals, Generic Only as limitations.

Isn't D&D-style wildshaping horrendously overpowered and one of the most cited reasons for 3.PF being Caster Edition (e.g. you're a full caster that can become more physically mighty than the party fighter and still cast spells)?

You might just have to tone it down or accept that shapeshifting is really damn powerful and thus expensive and be basically all your character can do. Don't try to recreate another system's brokenness without expecting to pay through the nose for it.

Kinda. A big part of Druids being crazy broken was that they could put terrible scores into STR, DX and CON and use Wild Shape to have great scores instead, and their Animal Companion was tougher and harder hitting then some PC classes, and only became stronger when the druid could very easily buff it to the moon.

And the Druid was also a full caster, with a set of fight-ending spells.

It's expensive, because it's incredibly powerful ability. Just deal with it.

Still only around 2 CP each for a month of study

hhaha.

Anyways, guys, my ultimate phone it in character sheet

Hahahahaha

It's only a 100/-27, which is actually a rather low point level, 125 and that's 12 modular points.

Kek'd.. I wasn't sure where it's going until the last bit hit me like a train

It's still 2 CP for free. I always give them 2 CP per scenario as "average", 3 to the person who did really good and 1 to everyone who fucked up, but not hard enough to don't get any points at all.
In short, they've gained double of their prize. So from their perspective it was golden.

Also, why this thread is so slow today?

Friday
Discord ate the posting base too
And tards in the "redpoll me on GURPS" thread drawing the trolld

Since when Friday has effect on Veeky Forums activity?

I dunno man
I'm just a dog

If the PCs are kids with school and parents to devote time to, should I give them a nonhazardous duty?

Could you please elaborate? It might be lack of sleep for past two days, or it might be you are too vague.

What's the best disadvantage to dependent situation where your PC is dependant on somone else. For most basic example - when kids are fully dependent on their parents legally and economically

Patron and Social Stigma (Minor)

Yeah, unless they're bullied.

I'd say that's the child having an Enemy, not the duty itself being hazardous. School only becomes a hazardous duty of the curriculum itself is lethal or if the conditions are hazardous (eg going to school in a warzone).

Depends on the level of bullying and the teachers, I think

HAHAHAH

TIME FOR FIREFLY:THE VERSE

>Altered Time Rate says you can't Feint unless you slow down because it would be too fast for the target to be affected by
>Normal people can Rapid Strike to Feint and Attack in the same turn

Explain this.

I got nothing

If all the PCs are kids and need to spend roughly the same amount of time at school, I wouldn't give them points for it. A Duty should be for something extra that none of the other PCs have to worry about, not the main plot. Otherwise it's just free points.

You could give some of the a Duty for extracurricular clubs, being on a sports team, or extra tutoring.

Note to self: Low performance freighters can technically output the same forces as fighters...but cannot sustain the burnout in the engines

New player here. Can you guys give me a quick rundown on the different base game fighting styles? I mean, why should I pick one over the other?

Whoa there buddy. What do you mean by styles? Like Boxing v Brawling v Karate? A comparison of all melee combat skills? Or is your GM using Styles-with-a-capital-S from Martial Arts?

>Like Boxing v Brawling v Karate? A comparison of all melee combat skills?
Yes, that's what I meant.

Investment vs payoff
Brawling >boxing >karate, in that order, are easier to hardest. You get more bonuses from the harder skills, and can get more techniques in the long run, so brawling is for short term payoff and bonuses, and karate is for invested hand to hand killin. Boxing is a weird in between

also NONE OF THIS IS REGARDS TO BALANCE OR RAW FAIR PLAY its historical and mostly realistic. No wizard vs druid vs samurai here, just real work and real world examples of hand to hand combat skills, abstracted for play

Preventing players from getting too OP is a perfectly good reason to tell them they can't do something.

As well, the way I said in my post is how I handle your problem. Require points AND training to be spent to increase a skill. If they're raising a skill suitably high enough, it should take them a pretty long time.

Ah kay then. Was worried you had a GM throwing Martial Arts at newbies.

Right off the bat, there's a difference in cost. Brawling is Easy, Boxing is Average, and Karate is Hard. This means it takes more points to be good in Karate than it does in Brawling. If you plan on investing a lot of points into unarmed fighting, you should probably go for Boxing or Karate as they are better than Brawling. If you only have 1 or 2 or 4 points to put into unarmed fighting, though, it's more important to be good at Brawling than mediocre at Karate.

Next comes what the skills can do.
Brawling includes the obvious like punches and kicks, but also bites as well; it also covers some minor often-improvised weapons. However, it has poor damage bonuses and sucks ass at parrying swung weapons.
Boxing is punching only. It is much more narrow than Brawling, but the specialization comes with some nice benefits: you get a very nice bonus to damage and get a full +3 to Parry just like a Dodge. You still suck at parrying swung weapons, though, and your fist-focused existence means you also aren't good at parrying kicks.
Karate is often considered the pinnacle of unarmed combat. All the extra damage and retreat bonuses of Boxing plus the ability to kick *AND* you finally shed that pesky Parry penalty vs swung weapons, what's not to like? It does come at a cost though; on top of the higher difficulty, Karate also takes encumbrance penalties, meaning that it's rarely used by people that have the good sense to wear decent armor. It also lacks Brawling's full scope; bites and similar natural attacks are not covered by Karate.

In general, people either go with Karate if they want to do a lot of punching or Brawling if they just need an unarmed backup option. Boxing is a sexy beast though.

Brawling seems cooler to me because I imagine you're throwing haymakers, clotheslines, headbutts, and elbows.

>Brawling
Punching, kicking, biting (and claws/horns/etc if you have them), slamming into people, and using a blackjack. The easiest to learn, but doesn't get much of a damage bonus for high skill, and doesn't have many fancy techniques.

>Boxing
Punching only. Gets a bigger damage bonus than brawling and gives you a parry bonus when retreating, but is harder to learn. Doesn't have many techniques.

>Karate
Punching and kicking. Gets the same damage and parry bonuses as Boxing, and lets you parry swung weapons without a penalty. The hardest to learn, but has a ton of useful techniques. Unlike both of the above, Karate is affected by your encumbrance.

All those are also doable with Karate. Remember that Karate is more than the Okinawan martial arts style; it's any formal training in dealing harm with your body efficiently. Muay Thai, Krav Maga, and any other "refined" way of punching and kicking dudes falls under Karate.

>What's your favourite way of gaining new skills and increasing existing ones?
When I GM, points earned in regular play can only be spent on skills used in play previously, at a rate I control, or on buying back disadvantages that make sense according to what happened in game.

Attributes and skills you don't know or didn't use can only be gotten/increased through training.

Advantages only come as special in-game rewards and can't be bought directly with points.

If a player wants a specific advantage or to buy back a specific disadvantage, they can usually talk to me and I'll set up an appropriately difficult event when it makes sense.

The "can't Feint whilst accelerated" thing is more a catch-all principal thing, meant more for higher levels of ATR. Granted it's a bit wonky with only one level of ATR, but look at it like this:
Rapid Striking to Feint and Attack in the same turn is more like a combined Feint-Attack manoeuvre---a fluid motion where you distract your opponent and take advantage of it in a strike, all in a single motion.
You CAN Feint and Attack even with ATR, though:
With ATR, it would be the same as using your first round to Feint, then the next to Attack (i.e. effectively "slowing down" to normal speed: a normal Rapid Strike Feint-Attack).
I'd rule this as "slowing down", anyway.

So.. using one of your accelerated rounds to Rapid Strike Feint-Attack wouldn't work, because it would be too fast. ...but your opponent would still defend against it. Normally.
..even if the very action itself is "too fast to respond to normally"..
Yeeah.. The ATR rules are a bit odd, sadly.

Godamnit Faust
What the hell

tl;dr on striking skills pastebin.com/ynsahRS1
Did I miss anything important?

Instead of
>* Judo allows unique Judo Throw maneuver
You should specify that Judo allows to convert successful parries into throws and arm locks.

>convert successful parries into throws
This sounds a bit confusing. You don't "convert" parry into throw, you just can throw after parry without grappling.
>arm locks
You can perform arm lock after wrestling (or even weapon) parry as well, this is not unique to Judo.

Does Judo's 1 parry per hand mean that the incremental parrying penalty is -4 per every second parry? Also, would Trained by a Master reduce this to -2 per every second parry?

>every second parry
If you have two arms and both are empty, yes.

Damn, this is neat. Love simple and elegant comparisons like this. Thanks!

Also, if I'm to get quickly acquainted with the (relatively new) sorcery system, where is it featured?
How is it in rough terms compared with, say, ritual path magic or normal spell/skill magic?

Yes, and yes.

But keep in mind that your right hand can only comfortably parry in front of you and to your right side, while your left can only parry forward and left without penalty, so it's not always that simple.

Is it possible to make a large creature, say SM4, while keeping certain body parts, like the eyes, at a smaller SM so they're still at -7 to hit? Or make a small creature with extra large body parts, like an extra large eye that's easier to hit?

Basically, is there an advantage or disadvantage that lets body parts have a different SM from the main body?

You mean Thaumatology: Sorcery? It's basically spells as powers (advantages) plus improvisation via Sorserous Empowerment, which is just special case of Modular Abilities.
You have less versatility than BS mages, let alone RPM mages, but your signature spells are more powerful and you can cast them pretty much non-stop.

I see. Kind of like a throwback to how psionics work then, with a few embellishments. I'll sniff around for the pdf.
Thank you so much

I saw someone go "Man I love sorcery!" so I figured it was worth checking out, even though I usually prefer having both BS magic and RPM magic as distantly related traditions in the world. Might be cool to try this though.
Anyone tried using it in their setting? How does it work flavour-wise?

>Require points AND training to be spent to increase a skill
Then I misunderstood you. Thanks for clarification and sorry for the misunderstanding

... Bio-Tech?

Use the rules for modifying existing limbs under Extra Arm/Leg will let you sort of do it, but it may get expensive.

Martial Arts, under Teeth on p.115
>Born Biters: Some creatures have elongated jaws built for biting – a zero-cost racial feature.
>They get +1 to +3 to effective SM only to determine how they bite. Apply the same bonus to rolls to hit their jaw or nose.

Basic Set, under 360 vision
>Easy to Hit: Your eyes are on stalks, unusually large, or otherwise more vulnerable to attack.
>Others can target your eyes from within their arc of vision at only -6 to hit. -20%
360 vision is a 25 point advantage

Basic Set, Extra Arm
>Long: This increases your effective SM for the purpose of calculating reach with that arm (see Size Modifier and Reach, p. 402).
>This does affect the reach of melee weapons wielded in that hand. Each +1 to SM also adds +1 per die to swinging damage. +100% per +1 to SM.
Doesn't alter SM, but might be relevant. Also see "Short" limitation.

Alright, thanks. I'll try working something up with that.

My GM says "Fuck You!" about my Kael'thas-style mage.
So i want to rebuild him into figter. What good abilities for fighter i can fit in such gadget (as AAs), exept force field DR?
>Orbiting Shard Of Power (-50%)
>DR5, -15%; SM-6, -10%; Thief must win a Quick Contest of DX or ST, -30%; Will not immediately work for the thief, +15%; Magical,-10%.
And if i want to every ability will change shards color to own color, should i slap "Visible, -10%" to ability or to meta-limitation?

By default, I believe most advantages are obvious. Traditionally, DR is obvious or at least can be guessed at -- rough leathery hide, chirinous shell, etc. In your character's case, the obviousness comes from the orb's color.

>If all the PCs are kids and need to spend roughly the same amount of time at school, I wouldn't give them points for it. A Duty should be for something extra that none of the other PCs have to worry about, not the main plot. Otherwise it's just free points.

Nah man, otherwise you don't get points for Duty in a military campaign

As a rule of thumb, if there's an advantage/disadvantage that's shared by the entire party (i.e. it's an integral part of the campaign) and it's not directly ability or combat related, I would very rarely give/charge points for them at all.
(Most of the time I would probably not even add these "hidden" ads/disads into the party character point totals. Unless they were combat-related or very obvious or high-power ones, that is. I'd just GM normally, consider it "backdrop"/"ghost" ads/disads, sort of.)

Short of manually going through every disadvantage and banning or modifying price, is there any 'pre-packaged' way to get rid of shitty free-points disadvantages?

Getting real sick of players loading up on minor social and motivational disadvantages for a mission exclusively set on a battlefield so they can afford a second level of ATR.

What's wrong with the Shapeshifting spell? With a few levels of aspected Magery and high IQ you can get a lot of forms for a few points.

As a fighter, you mostly want passive abilities...

360 degree Vision or Peripheral Vision is useful if you're a high-skill guy worried about being mobbed by many opponents.

Enhanced Defences is often useful for fighters.

Enhanced Move helps you get into melee range, if you are a melee guy.

Flight is really good if you don't have any decent ranged attacks and are in the kind of genre where flying enemies are common.

Obscure (Vision, Defensive) is pretty brutal for a melee fighters.

Perfect Balance is nice as an AA. You don't always need it, but in some circumstances it's a huge advantage.

Regeneration is great for 'tank' fighters.

Any kind of alternative to being blind in dark areas; Night Vision, Vibration Sense, Infravision, Scanning Sense...

Spines or any attack (innate attack, affliction, etc) with Aura works well.

As for the Visible limitation, surely it works the same regardless? Put it in the meta-limitation for convenience sake.

>Duty in a military campaign
>Your friends pass Duty check, only you called to duty.
>They drink in bar
>You blown-up with BAR in HMMV

Listen, the whole of GURPS is based on a very important, central, singular principle:
YOU, as a GM have to be the one to stop things like this. You're going to be the one to say "this is the limit for social/mental disads" or "sorry, you can't take that, since it won't end up being properly roleplayed[-because you have too many mental disads already]"

Players will always hoard points, and try to slither their way into getting as many as possible. You can't stop this entirely, and it also gives them some enjoyment (particularly the powergamers, for whom this is one of the great joys of the game), but that being said, if done to a large and frustrating degree, you'll be better off bringing it up and constraining it somehow.
(You're the one it hurts in the end, after all, considering you can no longer keep track of the disads.)

..Of course, if all the players do it and you're ok with the---hopefully marginal---amount of extraneous points they get out of it, you could just let it slide.
(Even though it will foster some unhealthy attitudes towards roleplaying mental/social disads.)

>for a mission exclusively set on a battlefield
You playing "go grind some more goblins" with 100+ points for disadvantages?
Why you allowing disadvantages?

>360 Degree Vision, Enhanced Defenses/Move, Flight, Obscure, REGENERATION, etc
Whoah, if my GM lets me have free picks like that when building a fighter, I'd either tell him to reconsider, or myself reconsider the setting we'd be starting in.
That being said, those are nice suggestions that I agree with.

Another cool option is to build a passive Autoparry kind of defense in the form of DR, using lots of modifiers. Never tried it in-game, only on paper, but it's a neat concept for cinematic or high-powered games.

I figured that if it was an ability powered by a magical floating shard which glowed different colours when using different abilities, you had kind of a free reign.

Not that I'm aware of, but if I was you I'd consider writing a list of allowed disadvantages rather than a list of banned ones.

You could also make your task a little easier by checking an appropriate genre book and seeing if there is a recommended traits list or cribbing from the templates. It's not foolproof, because many GURPS books are written with the assumption that it's OK to take 'free points' disadvantages, but at least it tends to avoid the most silly ones.

Alternatively, you can just implement a rule like 'only physical disadvantages' which tends to cut down on most issues. Or just give them more points and don't let them take disadvantages at all.

It's very simple, since you are a GM. It goes like this:
You pick up character sheet, you notice someone cooked something based on free points disadvantages, you look up what expensive shit they've got and you go "Yo, Steve, the fuck is this shit, dog? You want to embarrass yourself? That's wha's you wanna do?"
Let your players know that this won't go at your table. It's one of the core rules of GURPS - strong-willed GM that basically says "this shit won't fly".

If you want to ban something, ban disadvantages below -15 points. This way when your players pick something, they pick some serious malnus. -10 point can work too, but only if you are using Basic Set and nothing else. If disadvantage has levels, don't allow less than at least 4 ranks of it for the cheaper ones and 2 ranks for the -5 ones.

SJW tolerance ideas is Fanatism (Womans, LGBT, PoC and others are abused by WASP) [-15] or Delusion [-15]?

Depends. Some are just delusional (and you can see ex-feminists dropping this shit as they realize what's going on), some are bloodthirsty fanatics who just use those ideas as cover.

Hey guys, do you think you could help me out?

I want to run a sort of space opera set in the All Tomorrows universe, but I'm not sure how to write up the species. Do you guys think you could hell me out?

Specifically, I'd like to have it set sometime during the galactic speciation, I'm just not sure how to do each species

I wouldn't touch that setting with a ten foot pole in any rpg-related sense, even though it's an interesting read.

Statting the species would be a lot of hassle, but I suggest you start with jotting down rough ideas, especially for the hard/weird ones. The "simpler" ones will flesh themselves out when you get to details.

...

What difference between Incantion Magic and RPM?
It is the same thing or there some important changes like between RPM, Monster Hunters RPM and Thaumatology RPM?

It changes a few of the metrics for the calculations, like timespans are much more expensive, it changes the paths to work with the niche protection scheme of Dungeon Fantasy (No teleport or healing spells), it doesn't have greater effects, and it uses a lot of the modifications (though I think there are a few changes because of the no lesser/greater effects thing) for the Effect Shaping variant of RPM in Pyramid #3/66.

GRIMWYRD TIME

[immediately devolves into a half hour chat about SKS cleaning before play resumes]

Are there any pre-made templates or anything like that for fae?

check the third edition, faeries

Lads playing some house ruled Disc-world as a member of the city guard and have decided to make a lazy piece of shit dwarf noble dude.

These GM house rules seem fairly random tho, like only a very limited set of skills are available and all the point buy values are messed up/limited.

I have literally no idea what I am doing with gurps, but here is a rough outline of my fella

Attributes
ST:12
DX:11 10pt
IQ:13 10pt
HT:12

Skills
IQ-Armoury:1
HT-Carousing:2 10pt
IQ-Engineer:1
IQ-Explosives:1
IQ-Influence:1 20pt
IQ-Law:1 20pt
ST-Melee Weapons:1
IQ-Merchant:2 10pt
IQ-Observation:1 20pt
ST-Shield:1
ST-Thrown Weapon:1

Advantages
Lucky 15pt
Night Vision

Disadvantages
Greedy -15pt
Jealousy -10pt

any other guff

Perception 15 10pt

is there anything glaringly wrong with it, ignore all the point allocation as it makes no sense

what the fuck did your GM do
why are DX/IQ 10 points a level
Why are skills... what do your skills even mean? What does HT-Carousing:2 10pt mean?
can't even understand your sheet dude

bearing in mind I made that monstrosity before I read the book but was provided a points cost sheet by the gm.

basically I got a basic stat spread for being a dorf which is st12, dx10, iq12, ht12.

after that I was allowed to spend 20 of my 100 freebie points on attibutes at a cost of 10 per attribute, but not allowed to put more than 1 in a single attribute

the carousing thing:
HT being the attribute the skill is based off
Carousing 2 as I spent 10 of these fucking freebie points to upgrade the free rank for being a dorf to 2

after reading the actual core rule book for gurps I quickly realised non of these house rules make any sense when looking at either the core rule book or discworld supplement

I... wat?

I literally have no idea what you or your GM are doing with gurps. What even are those numbers?

If you're a noble you ought to have something like Status, Rank, Wealth.

Carousing 2 doesn't tell me anything
is carousing at HT+2, so you have carousing-14?