/mtg/ - Legacy General

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I know about the combo, but the combo itself doesn't seem that strong, just how long it takes to stack your deck in such a way that you can cast the whole thing

>Thoughts on any potential Unbannings you would like to see and why?
Unban baghdad.
Stop dredgephobia.

You only stack something like 16 cards. Once you know what you're going for, you dig the cards out and order them in a matter of seconds.

As an ANT player, I can attest to the fact that 4UU is a very awkward mana total to get to without, say, LED. Which also means I'm casting mind's desire from my graveyard. It's doable but a mind's desire combo deck would have to build around that, and probably not play ad naus.

>tfw everybody despises dredge even though wotc channeled their collective hateboner into creating tons of cheap, efficient ways of cucking the deck
>tfw it usually takes at least two turns to start going off and by then one of many hate cards are usually found

But turn 1 iona/griselbrand/sire with chancellor protection is fine, nothing degenerate about that.

Dredge is a shitter spotter, if you answer to "Is dredge OP" with anything but "It's a meme-deck, always has been if you lose to dredge outside of vintage drink bleach and KYS", anything you say after that should be ignored.

>He's still afraid of the boogieman
You're a little baby.
Let the format burn.

You mean port Vintage Dredge, the deck that demands 4-6 sideboard slots dedicated to it if you want to have a decent match up, into legacy? I really hope your kidding user

C'mon user, what is the wrost that can happen?! Don't be so dredgephobic!
baghdadx4 ledx4

I think you got your time lines messed up senpai. It recieved an erratum as you described, then wizards decided to remove power level errata and errata that changed cards from the written, intended functionality. Then hulk got printed and, errataless, it broke everything and was promptly banned.

Played against manaless dredge last night on MTGO. Lost game 1, thought I was gonna have to kill myself in disgrace. Won games 2 and 3 cause I'm not a shitter. Don't leave home without grave hate folks.

So I keep tinkering with my Pox deck, and the new spicy tech I'm going to try out is Liliana Vess. My reasoning: most of my games drag out a long period of time, so getting to 5 mana has not been a problem. What has been a problem is getting finishers/answers late game when I need them. Vess can keep pressure by attacking the opponent's hand, but also gives me the option of a mana-free tutor (two activations just from her starting loyalty). The biggest issue is she can't protect herself, but Pox is pretty good at keeping the board clear or having recurrable chump blockers.

I'm going to replace the Raven's Crime/Dakmor Salvage mini-combo with her, as I've never managed to get the combo in the graveyard at the same time (or if I have, the opponent had graveyard hate to kill it).

just get racks.

But sir, I already have racks

you have been living wrong for so long.

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I think I'm going to try a japanese pox reanimator list. Have a combo finish instead of trying to grind. Just need to pick of some grisles, and entombs.

Yeah I could have sworn they had gone back and re-errata'd the un-errata that they gave to the errata but apparently I'm just old and growing senile.

Counters can interact with Reanimator which is why it's a strategy that is exclusive to Legacy. Counters cannot interact with Bazaar. While in terms of speed, it's a deck that is actually going to kill you quicker than Reanimator. Bazaar is fucking insanely busted.

Mana Drain MIGHT be too good. Drain->Jace is a lot stronger in Legacy than it is in Vintage as a line of play. So while the card is borderline unplayable trash in Vintage, it would likely warp Legacy into even more Uxx Control dominance... which well, I think we are all already rightfully sick of.

Even Drain->Miracle'd Entreat would be some dumb shit.

I don't think hermit Druid is ok at all. Yes you have to untap with him but he is only 2 mana and the deckbuilding requirements are almost non-existent compared to undercity informer and balustrade spy. I have played with him in competitive games of edh, which plays fairly similarly to legacy, and he is absolutely broken, since you can still build a normal deck but then just have a must-answer, "I win" creature

Is mystical tutor too good? Would it make combo and miracles too strong? The rules are a little different now since when it was banned you could crack leds in your upkeep to pay for a spell in your draw step.

If they unban Mind Twist then rev up those Loxodon Smiters, Wilt Leaf Lieges and Obstinate Baloths.

As a Nic Fit player I could not want this more

How good is Stoneblade at the moment?

t. Modern baby

It's a fair deck. Fair decks come and go in terms of meta share in cyclical waves but are almost never BAD.

What's the consensus on the creature heavy version versus the brainstorm/Snapcaster one?

I think the best stoneblade deck right now is Death and Taxes. That said, normal ass stoneblade decks can certainly take down a tournament. I think any variant could be fine if you're prepared for the meta.

most creature heavy decks are just on their hands and knees begging miracles to fuck them harder.

terminus is some bullshit. RIP maverick

Well according to mtggoldfish the most popular one right now is the 4 color list (bant splashing black for drs and decay) with hierarchs, leovolds, and 4 tnn. So if you were to build a stoneblade variant, I would base the list off of that

>see the Eldrazi list in the top 5 breakdown
>2x Shauku, Endbringer
Someone explain this, I'm having a breakdown

It's almost certainly the eldrazi Endbringer, not Shauku, Endbringer. It was probably a problem with somebody entering a decklist and not paying attention.

how do I vintage Veeky Forums?

this is how I vintage

the great thing about d&t is that it's a fair deck with a lot of play and a high skillcap. you can just beat most decks if you're a good player regardless of people metagaming to beat you.

I've had the opposite experience actually. Metagaming pushed D&T out of my shop almost completely (people still try it occasionally, yielding poor to lackluster results); All the black and red decks just shit all over it with Massacre/Dread of Night/Kozilek's Return/Sudden Demise, not to mention there is a lot of Golgari Charm running around to hit TNN that also fucks D&T royally. Also, people started playing faster combo decks to go under D&T (TES/BR Reanimator, etc). The deck is actually not that hard to hate out and most decks can have positive to very positive games 2+ against it if they are willing to devote a bit of sideboard space to hating on D&T or having multiple use cards that incidentally hit it (Golgari Charm, Pithing Needle, Zealous Persecution come to mind as multi use). I will give the caveat that my local meta is a bit weird, there is no delver and multiple Blood Moon/Stompy type decks, a good bit of Noble BUG, a reasonable smattering of fast combo, some random jank like Nic Fit and Spirit Blade, and Miracles once in a blue moon. Point is I have appropriate hate in my sideboards in Big Red, TES, and UBW Landstill and I very rarely drop games against D&T, I've really never understood why people have trouble with it outside of specific nightmare matchups (Sneak and Show vs D&T). My shop went from 3 regular D&T players after conspiracy 2 to none due to people dedicating a bit of sideboard space to beating it. Since the beginning of the year no D&T list has done better than 2-3 at my LGS as far as I can recall.

That's sort a universal problem with smaller/local metagames, they become obnoxiously inbred. Like you said, if there is no Delver/Miracles than the metagame is less warped around those two decks. So people can devote more of their sideboard space and maybe even maindeck to beating D&T.

Online though or at larger events, the deck is great assuming you know how to pilot it. Like vs. B/R, just play 3-4x Surgical Extractions in your board and if you want to go even deeper; Leylines of Sanctity.

You still lose game 1 almost guaranteed but that is the nature of that deck for anyone not packing Force of Wills - and even they often aren't enough.

vs. Dread/Massacre, play SoL&S untop of the usual SoI&F. I feel like that deck can very much adapt to the hate being presented at it. Much like Miracles, D&T is this sort of cockroach that just never dies. And it's cards are actually quite powerful....

True, larger metas cause sideboards to be spread very thin, making it harder to hate out specific decks in general. However, D&T has recently had a lot of metagame share in paper (I confess to being completely ignorant of the online meta as I only play in paper); For instance unless you lump all the delver variants together it's the most popular "aggro" deck according to recent paper tournament results, which is leading to people actually starting to properly dedicate enough sideboard hate against it. another issue is the cards that are good against D&T (especially the red cards) are often good against several other decks (Elves, Delver, Maverick, Noble BUG come to mind), so it's not like your often not sacrificing sideboard space in a larger meta if you build correctly. Also, as far am my meta goes, the Miracles decks exist (there are 3 built if I remember correctly), but they are played less frequently than the other decks that I listed. It's actually pretty annoying to have to keep hate for miracles in my SB in case it gets played on a given week. I wouldn't say anyone has gone as far as maindeck hate to beat D&T in my meta, 2-4 cards in the SB that are good against D&T/Hatebear/Swarm strategies seem to be the norm.

>You still lose game 1 almost guaranteed but that is the nature of that deck for anyone not packing Force of Wills
This I agree completely, a lot of D&T's worst matchups are fast combo were stack based interaction is often required.

>Much like Miracles, D&T is this sort of cockroach that just never dies
I would disagree here. Miracles has been the top deck in legacy for ages. Literally every sideboard has to have a good plan against miracles due to how pervasive it is. D&T sees nowhere near the amount of hate that miracles does and doesn't have countermagic to stop the relevant hate cards from resolving. D&T is MUCH more susceptible to hate than Miracles in my opinion.

>I would disagree here. Miracles has been the top deck in legacy for ages. Literally every sideboard has to have a good plan against miracles due to how pervasive it is. D&T sees nowhere near the amount of hate that miracles does and doesn't have countermagic to stop the relevant hate cards from resolving. D&T is MUCH more susceptible to hate than Miracles in my opinion.

Yeah I definitely agree with that, hating out Miracles with sideboard cards is definitely harder since the general gameplan for the deck is well... so difficult. However, if you metagame heavily against it; you can definitely make Miracles hate life. MUDpost/12post and BUG if they aren't on the trendy Predict lists are just godawful matchups. As is Food Chain. In fact, Food Chain is probably the worst matchup since you can't even cheese them out consistently with B2B/Moon or Mentor.

What I meant is more that these are two of the decks that I think can work around what the meta is like and what sort of hate they are facing better than a lot of others.

Re:Online vs. Paper
D&T is definitely more prominent in Paper; fucking Rishadan Ports are pricy as all hell on Modo. Deck is pretty common on XMage though.

I actually find if your deck can play EE in the main right now for any conceivable reason, you really should. Card does work vs. Aggro strats while managing to fuck with random annoying shit. EE is so goddamn good.

Yeah, I've been noticing an increase in EE's being played, card is good against a wide swath of the field and answers TNN cleanly to boot. Makes me think twice when making goblins with TES lol.

>Only 1 anti-grave card

welp, guess i don't have to answer > just play 3-4x Surgical Extractions in your board
i prefer faerie macabre but live your dream

Dead format
Dead thread

I opened 2 Modern Masters 2017 & Eldritch Moon Boxes, most cards will be given away!
youtu.be/HAG1FnR4ll4

there's 2 Surgicals and a Crypt, and it's a combo deck. Racing Dredge is a valid plan.

Extraction just annoys dredge.

if all you need is a speed bump extraction is just fine

>First Bridge hits Graveyard
>Extraction it in response

That slows down Dredge by far more than a speed-bump. I mean I would go so far as to say if your deck can consistently achieve turn 1/turn 2 kills; you should run zero Anti-Dredge in the sideboard since it's not going to be relevant.

Like as PO, it just doesn't make sense to devote precious Sideboard slots to Dredge when Blue decks require 5-6 slots and Shops requires well... 9-10. I do have a miser Surgical in the list but that's only because it can come in against a few other decks - while Crypt/Leyline are mono-dredge. Cage would be worth consideration but it's been 10,000 years since I've seen Oath.

My shitty kobold clamp deck also has sort-of built in dredge hate because you can clamp a nigga and any bridges in their grave go away.

If you're clamping a nigga you should be nearly about to go.

So I haven't played the deck a ton yet but I've found that a lot of the time when I clamp a nigga it's actually just for card advantage purposes. Games tend to be won on the back of the broken ass bombs like necro/bargain/wheel/will more than chaining clamp activiations.

What is the best gimmicky Legacy deck you actually admire when people play against you?

4horseman

fluctuator. god bless them for trying. it's like seeing the downs kid try his best at sports and all you can do is smile and tell him good job.

>kobold clamp with the possibility of carnival of souls
that was my deck in 2002. Is it somewhat viable in vintage? I'd play the shit out of it if it is.

Any good cards in Modern Masters 2017 that should be picked up for Legacy, before they hike in price?

Lili, snaps? All the fetches

Short answer: no 8===>

Long answer: I haven't played it a ton. It would be better with power. But it's fun and I win some games. You could play it mono black too, so no need for dual lands. If you really want to play storm, don't have power, and can't use proxies, it's probably your best bet.

4-2 today at a local tournament.
Rattled off 4 wins vs TES, Manaless Dredge, Burn, and Pox, then lost to Burn and Bug Delver. Got a lot of turn 2 wins. Was running hot.

this. Preorderd lillies at 59, now they are at 67

>paying 60 bucks for lili
>instead of buying chink fakes
>Acting like it's a good pricetag

Can we /deckpics/?

>implying I didnt
>implying i didnt try 2 different ones
>implying anyone makes a good lili where the set symbol isint fucked.
China fakes have their place, but their lili is to risky imo

sure user

My most recent

My current list.

POST LISTS FOR THE CURE
IT'S HILARIOUSLY DUMB AND EFFECTIVE

>white borders
REEEEEEEEEEEEE

Those poor leds...

>Pink bordered Emrakul
I dig it

You, sir know how to lay out a deck.

I love. How do?

kys

what is good and in esper colors

If your looking for an established deck, UWb stoneblade is decent. If your looking for something spicy, Esper Landstill is a thing.

I play Miracles!

Lovely infect deck. Have considered moving into legacy after the probe modern ban. How do you find infect holds up?

Hermit Druid cannot ever come off the list. It's the most broken creature ever printed.

If you owned black border duals, would you white border them?

I've been using a pretty stock g/b list. Spirit guides, lotus petals, chalice, berserk, etc. Dark Confidant is hella good, despite running numerous 4 drops. However, I've found it's really not consistent. You either get the drop on your opponent and deal 30 damage on turn 2-3, or they have STP or you draw half of what you need. Are lists running white better?

My friends and I joke and say that's the next step in my quest, but I wouldn't do it. If I had black bordered duals I'd sell them and buy more white bordered duals. There is a limit to my madness.

Hermit is borked because he is a creature.
He'd be """""fine""""" in a freature heavy enviroment where people pack tons of removal.

Fine here means "cancerous little memetic shit" not "balanced".

I approve of your choice of decks, had it not been for BR reanimator more or less taking over my LGS I'd still be playing with C.rit and PiF main. My project of Foil, signed, German is moving forward, haven't gotten anything new in a while though, still waiting for my AdN to return from a group signing.
Faerie Macabre should be changed into Decays before next Wednesday-Legacy.

That ability will never be "fine".

It'd be fine on standard or pauper.

why you gotta hate on 12post user?

Nice telemin performance in the side. I assume that's because of all the reanimator in your meta?

I've started trying to foil out my deck. Unfortunately Doomsday itself has never been printed as a foil. Also thinking about getting more cards signed. So far only trop and bayou are signed.

I was under the impression Telemin Performance was to instawin vs creatureless decks via mill.

What's the verdict on 4c Loam? Seems like a fun deck with a good toolbox.

It can steal one of Reanimator's targets too

What's that card in the side between Massacre and Grapeshot?

Looks like Past in Flames

We must always be vigilant on our journey to rid the world of jankness and Scrubsurdity.

Bretty good user, plays the control, tempo and aggro game when it needs to.

What do you think the odds are we get a pushed BW Embalm creature that would be playable in a Stoneblade deck? Seems like Embalm fills a niche similar to Lingering Souls but the "flashback" isn't counterable.

I would like that. I'd honestly like them to throw some bones for us legacy hounds more often